Detailer and Shoddy Prep Work before Ceramic Paint?

Zarcady on 26/03/2022 - 16:23

Hi guys,

Recently got my demo car ceramic coated and was not too happy about the results and had a few questions. After I went to inspect the car, there were a few places where the coat was not smooth and I could feel little microbumps (uneven surface area) instead of a smooth surface and the detailer said it was due to tree saps. A couple of areas were noticeably different from the rest of the body colour and he has said it was because of bird droppings.

I realise these can damage the paint but I thought paint correction and preprep was meant to remove such imperfections before applying the ceramic coating. The car has only done 5000 odd kms so it's not like an older car in a terrible condition. He is insisting these tree saps and bird poop damage are something he cannot do anything about without wet sanding down the paint. Is the guy full of shite and trying to make excuses for doing a poor prep work? Since obviously I'm not experienced in this area, I just had to begrudgingly take his word for it even though I suspect he was just trying to get out of taking responsibility.

He even made a scratch on the driver's side window trim (piano black trim) and he claims the scratch was already on the car, which is impossible because I would have noticed such an obvious scratch being it's on the driver's side which I get in and out of daily.

Automotive

Comments

  • MS Paint on 26/03/2022 - 16:26
    +1

    Fun fact: Sap and pooh etches clear coat when not removed almost immediately.

    Is the guy full of shite

    No

    Any dealership or carsales images to prove the piano finish was not scratched?

    • Zarcady on 26/03/2022 - 19:31

      Unfortunately removing it immediately is out of my hands since it happened at the dealership as a demo car. I went to get the coating done 4 days after taking delivery of it and had been garaged the entire time beforehand.

      No photos to prove otherwise, that's why I couldn't refute his claims that the scratch was there before. The thing is, the scratch shows up very prominently at the detailer (some special lighting they use to probably see the imperfections better) but it's a little harder to see at home in the garage under normal lighting unless I shine a flashlight from my mobile directly on it. Admittedly I didn't do this before I take it to the detailer as I didn't know if there was a scratch or not in the first place.

  • apsilon on 26/03/2022 - 16:33

    Were there marks before? Paint correction can only do so much as there's a finite thickness of paint to work with. Burn through it and you need to repaint.

    • Zarcady on 26/03/2022 - 19:35

      I guess it's good to know the detailer wasn't straight up lying. Not sure if the marks were there before but I assume it was. I did take a good look before I took delivery of the car at the dealership but the lighting at the detailer shows imperfections a lot better than just regular lighting we have at home.

  • aoeueoa on 26/03/2022 - 21:24
    +3

    Sounds like dealer is full of shit. If you've just had it ceramic coated then the whole thing should be gloss smooth. If it is indeed tree sap then basically the car sat under a tree after it was ceramic coated. THat would make sense. But what dealer would leave a car under a tree like that? If he's saying the paint had sap on it and then it couldnt be removed and they ceramic coated over it - that's absolute bs.

    You can easily remove sap with clay bar or clay cloth, or a very easy polish or light cut. they would all remove tree sap. Doing a clay cloth is a very basic step and quick process.

    Bird poo can indeed damage paint when it's left on for months unwashed and left in the sun too. I've seen this on my own car. It is permanent damage. But it takes a long time to effect.

    I would not be at all surprised if they've just taken a ceramic coating product over the car after a very basic wash. This is exactly what dealerships do to maximise profits. A proper car detailer would have washed -> clay ->wash->cut->polish>ceramic coat. It's a full day's work.

    If you're in Sydney I can have a look but I'm south, DM me.

    • bmerigan on 26/03/2022 - 22:00

      That's all good advice except that I've had poop damage the paint within days not months. Admittedly it was more acidic than normal bird poop (high fruit content), so I suspect it was from a bat.

      • aoeueoa on 26/03/2022 - 22:44

        What car was that and was it factory paint? Sounds like some pretty shit clear coat.

        • bmerigan on 26/03/2022 - 23:00

          It was factory paint, black, 2001 AU Falcon. Only saw it once, which is why I suspect a very high acid content.

          • aoeueoa on 26/03/2022 - 23:13

            @bmerigan: Oh, yea the ford paint in that era is notoriously thin. Lot's of faded bonnets and peeling clear coat that you don't see from other cars much older even.

    • apsilon on 27/03/2022 - 06:57

      But it takes a long time to effect.

      Yes and no. It can damage in hours, depends on the bird and diet. There's no way you're leaving bird poo for days without some damage let alone months. Most people just can't recognise the damage. Some tree sap is also acidic and can etch like bird poo will. Once the paint is etched it's likely there's not enough thickness in it to fully remove it. What the detailer said about having to wet sand is 100% correct and for any sort of etching you can usually only reduce the damage, not remove it. Without having seen what it was like before, it's impossible to say.

      • Zarcady on 27/03/2022 - 15:21

        But wouldn't those irrepairable damage be noticeable to the naked eye? I've had bird poop etching on my previous car so I know how it looks like and the new one didn't have any visible damage (to the naked eye) so it must have been very minor.

        And if it was minor damage, wouldn't it be possible to buff out during prep work before coating?

        • apsilon on 27/03/2022 - 15:33

          You'd be very surprised at what people look over until it's pointed out to them.

          OP has said they're not sure if it was there before and haven't provided any photos of what it looks like now so we're all just speculating.

  • mini2 on 27/03/2022 - 08:24

    If poop has already etched the paint, unless the detailer agreed in advance they will attempt to fix it first then why blame the guy?

    • Zarcady on 27/03/2022 - 15:02

      Because the car itself was in a nearly new condition. I did not see any etching from the poop when I inspected the car prior to delivery at the dealer. So if there was, it was probably minor, not a major one. And if it was minor, wouldn't it have been able to be rectified easily?

  • idonteven on 27/03/2022 - 10:52
    -1

    This sounds pretty dodgy. Will need photos.

    How much did you pay? At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Any reputable detailer will know his craft well and charge accordingly.

  • Legoncy on 27/03/2022 - 14:04

    The times I've had ceramic coatings it's always a cut and polished prior to the coating.
    Everyone I know who offers these services suggest this.

    • Zarcady on 27/03/2022 - 15:05

      Yes, the guy said he did paint correction and prep before coating but I just don't think the job was done properly. Any imperfections existing prior to the coating done would have been minor as the car itself was quite new and I could not see any major faults (admittedly with the naked eye only).

      • buckster on 28/03/2022 - 11:40

        Maybe they've only done a very minor correction. Someone could claim running something like scratch-x with a machine over the car was "paint correction" without really good before and after photos though it's hard to tell what they did or didn't do

        • aoeueoa on 28/03/2022 - 19:48

          If the dealer is correct that bug and tar remains after the correction then there was no such correction ever done, not even minor.

  • redvaldez on 28/03/2022 - 11:43

    Without seeing photos, I would take his word about the bird poo. Remember, polishing out scratches and defects works by literally removing a layer of paint from your car. I've had some aggressive bird or bat poo on an older car of mine, and while I minimised its appearance by polishing it, I certainly couldn't remove 100% of it.

    I don't agree about the tree sap though. That's what clay barring is for. Most detailers would clay bar a car before polishing and applying a ceramic coating. And if it was obvious enough that you picked up on it, then I am especially surprised that it wasn't clay barred first (even if it was offered to you as an optional extra).

  • skillet on 28/03/2022 - 17:07
    +1

    It only takes a few hours and hot sun for bird dropping to damage unprotected paint permanently.

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