Cracka Wines Debacle

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Cracka Wines

• 

  dmac80 on 01/05/2012 - 14:42

  I guess it says it in the terms and conditions only one voucher/coupon valid per household. I'd be surprised if they could get away with charging your credit card - but I guess if you agreed ot the t's and c's then they might be able to?

• 

  Mikinoz on 01/05/2012 - 14:45

  +2

  t's & c's rarely relates to law, although you did agree to those terms before buying.

• 

  MarkB4 on 01/05/2012 - 15:03

  +2

  Is that common practise? Only one voucher to be used per household, in perpetuity? I don't think so. I know they have T&C's but I didn't sign anything and who reads them anyway.

  The fact is Cracka didn't have their act together and were overrun by OzB's and instead of taking it on the chin, stating their case, and turning it to their PR advantage they have chosen to stand by legally dubious T&C's and reclaim what they can for the money, pleading poor.

  Ok, no problem, I don't like the wine anyway and don't want it under the circumstances. They will get it back on the right terms.

  And no, I didn't agree to any T&C's. I just used one code from each of the threads/deals as I would any deal, two different deals they are saying is one deal, two vouchers they are saying is one, and if I did anything I shouldn't their site should be able to detect it as it happens. It's not rocket science. "Oho! You can't buy that because we just checked you bought this." Simple programming.

  In other words, I don't accept the onus but I have no problem giving the wine back or not accepting it when it arrives. You see, they have already sent it and according to them they shouldn't have.

  I have told them on what terms I will return the wine, at no cost to me and full PP refund.

  Just wondering if anyone else has heard from them, that's all.

• 

  bargdebarg on 01/05/2012 - 16:00

  +1

  I did the same as you Mark, used the code once for each thread. I spent about $70 each time as I opted for a more expensive wine. Both cases have been delivered and I received this email this morning (below). I replied, stating I was not aware the two different codes were the same thing. Let's see what happens. I do not think they can make me pay, but I will consider doing it out of good will. What do you think?

  One reason I may pay them is due to the nature of the first thread - it was clear that we were not supposed to find these codes, but through trial and error we managed to do so.

  "Calvin, May 01 13:20 (EST):
  Hi,

  During an internal review of our discount voucher usage we determined that you've purchased two cases of wine using two $50 vouchers from the same 'iSubscribe Mothers Day' voucher campaign. The Terms & Conditions attached to these (and all Cracka Wines) vouchers is that they are strictly one per person/delivery address.

  As a result you have been granted more Cracka Credit than you are entitled to under 1 voucher use Terms and Conditions. To rectify the situation I will submit a payment request via PayPal for the extra credit applied to your second purchase. If you could authorise this immediately it would be most appreciated. Alternatively, if you would like to return 1 of the cases of wine you may do so under the Terms and Conditions of our returns policy, which you can review here: http://www.crackawines.com.au/termsandconditions

  As a small business,doing its best to take on the major retailers, we trust that you’ll understand that we can’t afford to provide each customer more than one voucher discount. In this regard we’d like to thank you foryour ongoing support and cooperation in this matter.

  If you have any further questions about this matter please let me know.

  Kind regards,

  Calvin."

  • 

    MarkB4 on 01/05/2012 - 18:49

    +3

    The PayPal matter came up on another thread and I checked with PP to see if it's possible for an unauthorised transaction to take place and the info is a big "NO", someone would have to hijack the account for that to happen so whoever said Cracka did this is on something, a shill, or PayPal is wrong or misleading. It would be tantamount to theft anyway, to take money from an account without authority.

    On the question of good will? I think their case is hypocritical. Their T&C says "Each voucher or credit may only be redeemed once per household/delivery address." You, as I, did just that - redeemed each of two vouchers just the once per HH. I don't see a problem there.

    And when you look at two other facts, the T&C again : "Cracka Wines conducts regular audits of voucher and credit usage and reserves the right to recover amounts owing from customers who redeem more than one voucher or credit per household/delivery address." And two, they send out emails to buyers with another 10% discount offered = more credit. Either they are giving away the credit to be used or they are not. To assume the credit is not to be used as it may be clawed back puts them in a dubious legal position, I think.

    To give credit is to represent a position in relation to the receiver of that credit, that s/he may use it freely, one credit at a time - as I believe I and you have done. To state, as they do, they "reserve(s) the right to recover amounts owing from customers who redeem more than one voucher or credit per household/delivery address." is to represent the opposite position. You can't have it both ways and though I am not a lawyer I have some experience and I believe these T&C's are legally untenable. At least they are confused and as such the onus is on them to clarify, so far they haven't, they have just restated what I consider legally dubious claims.

    Whether you pay more is a matter for you. I would rather give them the case back as long as it doesn't cost me anything, and I have asked for that in writing, as I prefer not to do business with such complications as this. If they don't give me the guarantee returning the case won't cost me I won't be sending it, and I won't be paying more as a matter of principle, and we'll see what happens then.

    As far as the first thread/deal being a matter of trial and error to get a working code I don't see how that matters. It's still one code that was used, fairly as I see it. It might be different if we had made off with a truck load, but we didn't and they are only going after the ones who didn't hide nor, in my mind, do anything wrong.

  • 

    matt_will_fix_it on 01/05/2012 - 20:47

    You could say that you will abide by their policy…

    They offer refunds if you are unhappy with the wine… however if you are happy with the wine, you could fall under this category…

    "No Other Refunds

    Other than in the circumstances outlined above in Refund Policy / Quality Guarantee and Breakages, no returns will be accepted and no refunds will be made in respect of purchases you make via the Cracka Wines Website."

• 

  bargdebarg on 01/05/2012 - 16:09

  Got a reply stating it was the same promotion. Once they realised OzBargains were on to them they changed their codes to the longer format. Interesting.

  • 

    MarkB4 on 01/05/2012 - 19:05

    +1

    I am not convinced of that. The first one ended and the second appeared, available in email from www.isubscribe.com.au The fact the delivery was open to anyone who subscribed indicates to me a new promotion. And even if it wasn't, so what? They were still two different vouchers/codes - and the rest of my argument stands, their T&C are untenable as written and as they practise mailing out new vouchers/credit/codes - whatever it's called.

    I think they are just peeved OzB's got to it as well and we have from them sour grapes, at least mine are. :)

• 

  Natt on 01/05/2012 - 17:13

  +1

  I think its fine to restrict the offer to one per household, thats well within their rights.

  Whether its "good practice" is neither here nor there.

  But for people who used more than one voucher they should have "held" the order rather than sending it out.

  And if the reports are too be believed that they put second unauthorised charges onto credit cards that is a big issue.

  A business can put whatever T&C they like on their pages, just becuase they do it does not waive your legal rights.

  How many times do you hear "no returns"/"no refunds" under any circumstances, thats not legal and saying it in T&C will not make it so

  • 

    MarkB4 on 01/05/2012 - 18:53

    That may be so. But it is not fine, or well within their rights, to restrict credit/vouchers to one per HH 'AND' give away more credit/vouchers to those same people, presumably to use so they would then have used more than one per HH.

    Or would it be ok then, having given more credit/vouchers and they are used, to charge the customer for the value of that credit/voucher? I think not.

• 

  stratbargain on 01/05/2012 - 17:47

  +5

  I never received my case of wine. It was delivered to the wrong address it would seem.

  After enquiring they sent me 'proof of delivery' which showed a signature that is nothing like mine. I asked them what we can do about it… Their response?

  "As a small business, I’m sure that you can appreciate that we are unable to redispatch orders that we have proof of delivery confirmations for."

  What a joke. I'm still following it up with them…. (they are very slow with emails and have no contact number) so will update this thread if they decide to do right by me… not holding my breath.

  • 

    voteoften on 01/05/2012 - 23:04

    +1

    That's outrageous.

  • 

    dorothi_toto on 02/05/2012 - 00:19

    that's terrible .. so someone is drinking your wine! how outrageous! … mine got delivered to the post office, and i said "no" to permission to leave.

    • 

      Duff5000 on 02/05/2012 - 09:42

      That sounds correct. If you clicked yes to it they would have left it at your door.

      • 

        stratbargain on 02/05/2012 - 09:46

        I should note I also clicked 'no'

• 

  c64 on 01/05/2012 - 18:51

  +4

  i don't think they have a leg to stand on. once the transaction is completed i don't think they can legally charge you any extra. they could cancel and refund an existing order if it hasn't been delivered.

  "too bad" would be an apt reply.

  • 

    MarkB4 on 01/05/2012 - 18:55

    It's probably that simple, legally and principally.

    Pity they have taken a hostile position.

  • 

    bargdebarg on 01/05/2012 - 19:05

    Haha..lol @ your suggested reply.

• 

  bargdebarg on 01/05/2012 - 19:05

  +1

  Yeah, I replied and stated had they contacted me prior to delivery then I would have cancelled the order, so therefore I don't agree paying the extra $50 is fair. Also, too much effort to return them. Their returns policy is poor when compared to WineMarket (I buy from them frequently) who pay for all postage and do full refunds.

  I made the point in my email which ever way you look at this, it's a poor customer experience. As this was my first time with them, I don't see that I will give them any business in the future.

  • 

    stratbargain on 01/05/2012 - 19:28

    +1

    RE The winemarket point I agree completely. I've only ordered once from Winemarket but it was quick and painless. The courier rang me the night before (On a Sunday no less) and told me he'd be there at 10am Monday. Arrived on time. Even offered to carry the box into my house for me.

    Compared to Cracka wines who initially charged me twice for my order and then try and claim they are not responsible for my wine not arriving.

    Also I've noticed in two of their responses in this thread they've pulled the "As a small company.." line. Frankly as a small company you should be trying to get happy, return customers.

    Screw them, I'm using WineMarket for all my future purchases.

  • 

    SomeGuyOnOzB on 02/05/2012 - 10:38

    +1

    Oops, I replied in the other thread.

    You should not have to return them in this case.

    If they want, they can pay for someone to pick it up and they can arrange with you to pick it up at a time that is convenient to you.

    • 

      bargdebarg on 03/05/2012 - 17:07

      Agreed. They replied stating that they will cover the cost of pickup, didn't confirm if I can leave it unattended, will only refund for 11/12 bottles and didn't confirm if they would refund the original $5 delivery cost. Pretty poor reply. Hmmm…I actually do want to return them, so assuming they will refund the $5 I guess this is ok. I only loose about $8.50 for the bottle. They also said their "tasting experts" will see if the wine is spoiled, and if so refund the 12th bottle to. LOL

      • 

        voteoften on 03/05/2012 - 17:10

        It could easily be one bottle that was "spoiled" (most likely oxidised).

        It is probably just crap wine.

        I actually didn't mind the cheap sparkling I got from them. I paid $21 for a case. Have gone through about half or a little more because I always bring more grog than I drink to other people's houses.

• 

  rack on 01/05/2012 - 22:46

  +3

  Seriously i put in 2 orders too. Both using codes from the first promotion. Got both my wine delivered. I have only received this email from them.

  | Hi XXXX. My name is Something. I am the founder and CEO of Cracka Wines - a website where you recently bought some wine. I just thought I'd send you a quick note to thank you for your support and to see how your experience went. We're obviously keen to ensure that our systems and procedures are constantly improved so your comments, suggestions, criticism or compliments would be most appreciated. I look forward to your reply and thank you for your time. Cheers, Something CEO - Cracka Wines.

  I am going to say Crackawines can't put extra charges on CC's without your permission. If they had do a chargeback. If they send you a paypal claim ignore it and don't send the stuff back. Like i've mentioned before in one of my comments that they approved the order, they accepted the payment, they packed the order and dispatched it. That should have given them plenty of time to check for same delivery addresses etc.

  • 

    dorothi_toto on 02/05/2012 - 00:21

    did they (try) to charge you for the 2nd lot? … or were you lucky and they missed "catching" you. kinda funny if a) they didn't charge you and b) they're asking to see if your experience was ok. ha ha

    • 

      rack on 02/05/2012 - 07:41

      No i haven't been charged for the second order. And mine were paid for by same paypal and delivered to same address.

      • 

        bargdebarg on 02/05/2012 - 09:34

        Same as me Rack, I would say they will email you like me. Both my orders were paypal, same addy, both delivered.

      • 

        rack on 02/05/2012 - 10:02

        Well let them try. I'll give them a piece of my mind. They can't just come back and start demanding more money for their own mistakes. Issuing voucher with no minimum, being stupid to allow combination of vouchers etc. They failed themselves so why make me pay for it.

        Also both cartons of wine were left at the door so unless they can prove i actually received both carton i am not giving them anything back at all.

• 

  voteoften on 01/05/2012 - 23:08

  +1

  Good grief, no cracka code can be trusted again. How would we know if it was the "same promo" or whatever BS excuse they are using?

  Does anyone know if the first set of codes had an expiry and if so, does it match the second set (thinking it was 30/6)?

  • 

    dorothi_toto on 02/05/2012 - 00:22

    +1

    totally agree. well, we all know better now. just best not to go through it again.

  • 

    bargdebarg on 02/05/2012 - 07:26

    +2

    Not sure, it does seem odd that a mothers day promotion runs until 30/6

• 

  dorothi_toto on 01/05/2012 - 23:33

  I find myself very confused by the whole situation. As a consumer i find it poor form from a business on many levels. Firstly, they never specified one voucher EVER or at least could have stated $50 off your first purchase. To me they seem like separate offers/promotions, so if it were to relate to a once off $50, they needed to clearly state that. It's very confusing for the customer!!! Secondly, they had other offers running - such as signing up for $25 credit. Again to me that is a separate offer/promotion.
  There needs to be some clearly defined rules/stipulations and consistency, not making s**t up on the fly.

  From their perspective - i can understand they are trying to run a business. They can't subsidise every case of wine especially if each customer tries to use a $50 voucher more than once.

  And given the power of ozbargain, i would imagine they were inundated with thousands of orders. Orders which with the first deal were likely targeted at specific customers in their databases (who likely missed out on the offer because it was used by ozbargainers).

  I could imagine they would be operating at a huge loss from these two events. Think about it - at least 1000 people all ordering $5 cases of wine, especially when they delivery costs $5 in itself. They've already lost $5000 in this example. Now the real situation could have been 10,000 orders for all we know.

  I do feel that it was rather greedy to use more than one voucher. I am not talking about using more than one across the two offers (which in my mind are separate offers) but using more than one in each of the offers. i.e in the first offer, guessing 4 codes to get 4 x $50 off vouchers or subscribing multiple times to get the free brochure and subsequently code/s for $50 off vouchers.

  If it were my business i would have just simply cancelled your second order. No email re an option to pay, just cancelled the last transaction. It would cost them money in labour (staff calling to clarify/clear up confusion) and phone call costs. This adds to your costs as a business especially when people are trying to be dodgy and get "more".

  I don't run a business but i am simply just trying to see it in their eyes, and if i was in that situation as a small business owner.

• 

  bargaino on 02/05/2012 - 00:04

  +2

  After my paypal was overcharged I tried to cancel it.

  Emailed them, tried to phone (voicemail full), phoned Monday morning, but too late apparently.
  I sent screenshots as evidence.The people I spoke to at Cracks were very reasonable.
  They asked me to refuse delivery, but courier has "authority to leave".
  So they offered a choice of returning it at their cost, or a $30 partial refund, which I accepted.

  FWIW, I got the Toro Loco from the auction page at the reserve price, post auction. So am still very happy about the final price.
  Just not real comfortable about Paypal charging more than authorised. (I knew that could happen with giving credit card details to the seller, obviously.)
  Will certainly visit their shop again.

• 

  voteoften on 02/05/2012 - 00:04

  +2

  Imagine if Cellarmasters did this - allowed one voucher , ever.

  I am never buying from cracka again.

• 

  voteoften on 02/05/2012 - 00:29

  +1

  My one case came with a handwritten label. My delievry instructions said authority to leave, but out of view of the street. It is almost hard to leave a parcel in view of the street, but the delivery driver did, making sure that the huge handwritten address label was facing the street.

• 

  SomeGuyOnOzB on 02/05/2012 - 10:46

  +1

  Here's the bit I really don't understand.

  People are getting 2 orders delivered to the same address.
  I'm going to assume double orders were being put through on the same account.

  So … they knew your second order was on a second voucher.

  So, they've deliberately chosen to send out the second order, with the intention of asking for more money later.
  Don't they want customers?
  Did they think it would be supported by consumer law or did they assume people would not question the legality (or appropriateness) of this approach to business ?

  baffled

  ---

  I only ordered one case using one voucher and was happy with what I got. But I'm going to be very wary of them in future unless they get this mess sorted out in a manner that restores my confidence :S

  • 

    rack on 02/05/2012 - 10:50

    +1

    exactly what i am trying to say.I didn't read their terms and conditions about 1 voucher / household prior to placing the orders. And i never agreed to any of their terms by clicking on "yes i agree " anywhere. I only read their TOC's after i had placed both orders. Just having your terms and conditions at the bottom of your website and saying you agree to these upon use of our site isn't enough.

    Both my orders i am sure arrived on the same consignment as well so there we go. They know they were sending 2 cases of wine to my address.

  • 

    MarkB4 on 02/05/2012 - 10:56

    Yes, baffling. I see you suggested in the other thread if the case is to go back one of the conditions should be they repay the funds first. Is that correct?

    Probably good advice, though I was willing to take their word I would be refunded in full as it was their mistake, not mine.

    Somehow I don't think we'll be hearing from Cracka again and should probably let it go and get on with the bargain business? :)

  • 

    Duff5000 on 02/05/2012 - 14:20

    +1

    I joined up to their site and it gave me $25 off my first order.

    When i ordered a case ($100) and went to use the $50 off voucher it had already taken the $25 off. There was no option to select it, it was already subtracted. There was still a box to enter a voucher number so i did.

    Paid my $25 via PP. Next day i get a message saying you cant use 2 discounts in the same purchase and asking me to pay an extra $25.

    The $25 off said $25 off your first order "no strings attached". Sounds like strings are "still attached"

    Anyway, going to cancel my order. They have a 6 pack of the wine listed now. After delivery and $50 off it cost a total of $2.50.

    6 Bottles for $2.50 or 12 for $50. Easy choice.

    • 

      voteoften on 02/05/2012 - 14:30

      What wine is that. PM me if you want.

      • 

        Duff5000 on 02/05/2012 - 14:51

        "voteoften does not accept new private conversations."

      • 

        voteoften on 02/05/2012 - 15:00

        OOOPSY duff. I do now. But I just remembered. - I am NOT buying from these bastards any longer.

    • 

      rack on 02/05/2012 - 15:45

      Not sure if any of the codes are still active though I suscribe has removed all codes.

      • 

        Duff5000 on 02/05/2012 - 16:08

        My wife had a code from the other day still.

• 

  mikk on 20/06/2012 - 03:10

  I tried my code just then and it doesn't work. That prompted me to look around and see if anyone else was having trouble. By the sound of things on various places online, cracka.com.au doesn't have a good reputation anyway so I don't want them getting any of my money, discount or not. Pity for them, it was a $250+ order.