Scammed Car Sale Advice

louud on 26/01/2022 - 09:35
Last edited 26/01/2022 - 14:12 by 1 other user

Hi OzBargainers,

Just want to know what can be done:

So went to view a car on Sunday, and the guy insisted on cash payment. All state checks were clear. So paid deposit $300 via PayID and to return on Monday with cash.

On Monday, seller started playing up, saying the car owner isn't here but everything is sign etc . Initially saying, the car is under wife but later saying under cousins name who is in QLD. We insisted on the car transfer together and then cash payment after.

Then the seller got angry and that he will cancel the deal and we won't get the deposit back. Told seller we'll report to the police and he replied "let me know if you don't know how to" Very infuriating.

It was supposed to be my first car, so upset n frustrated. I tried to call the bank to reverse the PayID transaction but no avail.

Thank you in advance.

Edit: this post is for sister who is in melb. And by the time she told me she had paid the deposit.

The seller got angry cause sister wanted a pre purchase check prior to final payment, which of course never happened.

Seller seem to have FB profile of working in some detailing shop. Makes me wonder if it was a client's car. Rego & PPSR was clear then only deposit was made.

Automotive

Comments

  • randomusername2017 on 26/01/2022 - 09:39
    +7

    Congratulations…levelling up

    Scammed in person… by any chance did the sellers wife wave a red flag when you began the test drive?

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:13

      Wife was only present in the seller's speech.

  • jakepods on 26/01/2022 - 09:44
    +1

    you should hunt him down

  • Hithere on 26/01/2022 - 10:02
    +4

    Just want to know what can be done:

    Did you agree that the deposit was refundable if the sale fell through for any reason?

    Unless you have some very big friends there's probably not much you can do now, especially if your bank won't/can't help. The police won't be interested, unfortunately.

    It was only $300 it could have been a lot worse, put it down as a life lesson.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:14
      +2

      Life lesson it seems. Thank u

  • pegaxs on 26/01/2022 - 10:11
    +11

    And this is why I always tell people, don’t leave deposits for private purchases. I also don’t accept deposits if I am selling a vehicle.

    Deposits are refundable, even for private sales, but as the seller, if the buyer is a douche canoe, you can only retain a reasonable amount to cover your incurred costs, such as re-advertising costs, or costs associated with preparing the vehicle that you would not normally have done unless requested by the buyer.

    But then again, to get that money back out of a seller, you may have to threaten legal action or take them to court, and is $300 really worth it?

    Let this be a lesson to all the “must give deposit” pundits, that you never give any more than you happily willing to lose. To me, that amount is $0.

    And don’t worry about the police, it’s a civil matter and they will treat it as such.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:15

      Thanks

    • yellowfever on 26/01/2022 - 18:56
      +4

      I've sold many cars and motorbikes in the past and have always demanded a deposit value that is satisfactory to both parties.
      If you are seller and not accepting deposits how is it a sale? You're essentially allowing the buyer to window shop.
      Do you expect the buyer to carry $20K cash or whatever on the first inspection?

      Even as a buyer myself, I place a deposit with written confirmation and photo ID taken, so that the deal is agreed.

      In OP's situation there is ambiguity in ownership of the car and it appears OP did not check ownership via registration paperwork. A PPSR check does not confirm name of ownership. Inexperience at a cost of $300.

      • pegaxs on 27/01/2022 - 00:09
        +5

        If you are seller and not accepting deposits how is it a sale?

        Easy. I say, no, don’t bother, come back when you have the whole amount (because it’s not a “sale” until it is paid in full). I’m not dealing with your deposit in the event that if you want your cash back or if you change your mind. If someone is genuine, you don’t need to take a deposit.

        If they want something done that was not part of the sale price, then I only take the amount it would cost me to resolve that issue (ie: rego) and no more.

        You're essentially allowing the buyer to window shop.

        Correct. Genuine buyers come back. You are going to get window shoppers anywhere and they are the ones that will most likely ring you back in 3 days and want their deposit back.

        Do you expect the buyer to carry $20K cash or whatever on the first inspection?

        No. They come, look at the car, say yes, I’ll take it, I say ok, I’ll hold it for you until a day that suits (ie enough time to organise funds) and tell them if they don’t come back by that day or don’t contact me, it’s back on the market to the first buyer who calls me. Again, genuine buyers will be back.

        Even as a buyer myself, I place a deposit with written confirmation and photo ID taken, so that the deal is agreed.

        Again, as I said above, only hand over what you are willing to lose or to fight for in court.

        And there is no way on gods green earth I am giving some random stranger a copy of my ID to take with them. That’s a quick way to get your identity stolen. A car sale is not worth that. Another reason I don’t take deposits is because of people who then think they have a right to my personal identification information for simply giving me a “deposit” that I don’t really require.

        People think they can take a large deposit on a private sale and then keep that deposit if the buyer backs out, and this is incorrect. You can only retain any reasonable amount that covers your costs for being (fropanity) about by a buyer, You can’t keep a $5,000 deposit on a $25,000 car if all you did was spend $45 re-advertising it and put in some mats that the seller asked you to buy for it.

        • BigBirdy on 27/01/2022 - 11:16

          Once a deposit is paid, both buyer and seller have a financial interest in the sale. The seller now has a reason to proceed with arranging RWC, etc, and the buyer a reason to arrange their finance, etc. With no deposit, the buyer has no incentive to continue, or even to inform the seller of a change of mind. With full payment, the seller has no incentive to continue, or arrange anything (“I’m not fixing that now you’ve paid”). Any exchange of identification is not so much as between two random strangers, it is between two people with a financial commitment that will lead to a legal commitment, ie the vehicle transfer. Deposit or not, transactions require a level of trust, something that a small percent of the community are very poor with. Dealers also expect deposits.

  • thatonethere on 26/01/2022 - 10:32
    +9

    $300 isn't too bad - you probably avoided something worse given the ownership of the car now seems unclear.

    next time ask to see the actual paperwork prior to handing over any cash - ie "do you have clear ownership of the vehicle?" "oh that seems odd that you are selling a car you don't seem to own? maybe i will keep looking good luck sir"

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:15

      Yep point noted. Thanks

  • Traveller107 on 26/01/2022 - 10:47
    +6

    Mate I feel for you as I went through something similar a long time ago. I had just moved to Australia as a student and after graduation we went to buy a car that was listed for sale privately. 3 chinese students selling it wrote down a quick deposit receipt and paid them $600 deposit. Called them in the morning to meet for exchange of car and remaining cash and transfer paperwork but phone kept ringing out. Then we called from another number and someone picked up and told us to forget about our deposit and laughed when we said we will report them to the police. Later on I found someone's post on gumtree warning people against those scammers as they had done the same thing to many people. (Later on found out they flew back to China and nobody could get their money back)
    Called the WA police who weren't any help but I know qld police are a lot better. Maybe you'll have better luck if you can find someone decent to help.
    Anyways, since then we have been extra cautious with money and any private dealings. Wrote it off as a very expensive lesson learnt.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:16

      Im sorry to hear that too. Thank u for sharing

  • El cheepo on 26/01/2022 - 10:49
    +4

    It depends how vindictive you want to be.

    Legally it’s more hassle then it’s worth trying to recoup that money as police wont help, it wasn’t stolen.
    Will be a small claims battle that isn’t worth it.

    Which doesn’t leave you much option other than how childishly low would you go for revenge?
    Keeping in mind they haven’t committed any crime the police care about but you doing any damage could land you in jot water.

    Personally I’d chalk it up as a life lesson (and probably put their number down on gumtree as selling a ps5 for $500 from a ghost account)

    • dogboy on 26/01/2022 - 10:58
      +6

      A few years back, my house was robbed. They found who did it through fingerprints as they were known to police. We went to court as they were pleading innocent and I spent 4 painful hours in a waiting room with the involved police officers waiting for the case to be heard (the defendant turned up late so it was bumped). At the last second, they changed their plea to guilty and got off without any jail time. As the person was on a pension there was no compensation for us (they don't garnish pensions). The police officers strongly suggested that I take matters into my own hands to get revenge (the person lived on my street) but make very sure to cover my tracks. I sh!t you not…

      • El cheepo on 26/01/2022 - 11:06
        +4

        Been a cop would be tough.
        Just imagine how annoying it would be to see that injustice day in day out by people who work the system.
        Unfortunately their job depends on them following the rules to a fine degree, but I’m sure theres more then a few that would turn a blind eye to some street justice on known perpetrators.

      • AdosHouse on 26/01/2022 - 14:10
        +2

        I believe that. I deal with liquor incidents all the time, being a bar manager, and after one good incident I had a cop tell me that he wishes more people would just give these sort of arseholes a massive flogging. Teach them the lesson that they can't.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:16
      +1

      I like your idea 🙃

      • El cheepo on 26/01/2022 - 16:24
        +2

        Plenty more petty ideas where that came from.

        But my main advice would be, keep it relatively innocent 😉

        • louud on 26/01/2022 - 23:55

          🤣

  • star-ggg on 26/01/2022 - 11:30

    I would take them to small claims court for the principle.

  • burningrage on 26/01/2022 - 11:30

    I wonder if PPSR would help in this case.

    I am also wondering if OP (as buyer) had a witness to all of this charade. As some have said that what the seller may not have committed a crime but the witness did hear the car was seller's, and then changed to wife's, which then changed to cousin's, that I would argue, would constitute misrepresentation or attempted fraud (crime) and the witness could write a stat declaration saying as such.

    Of course this would mean you would have to record the conversation covertly as well which is a lot harder to do than being said.

    But yes, easiest would be just no deposit. I once sold a car privately too and one of the risks I had to take with no deposit would be getting the RWC and getting the car cleaned up and the buyer didn't turn up on the day. So I would have insisted on a deposit but made it clear it is non refundable as I needed to get RWC and stuff.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:17

      I suppose it was dont right scam. Lesson learnt

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 26/01/2022 - 11:39
    +1

    People. What a bunch of bastards.

    Looks like it’s a life lesson Op. don’t let emotion take centre stage when making buying decisions. There is ALWAYS a better deal. Maybe not today or tomorrow but it will come. At least you’ll be better prepared next time.

    We need some kind of scam reporting platform - similar to those for reporting scam callers where you just google the phone or email contact and find out previous experiences.

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:18

      Thank you. Indeed, or like some sort of checklist to filter out scam.

  • Boioioioi on 26/01/2022 - 11:43

    OP, not to detract from your story, but you mention it was meant to be your first car, but you have another old post regarding work being done to your car?

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/652983

    • tonyjzx on 26/01/2022 - 12:20

      OZZB automobile creative writing crew sign in!

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 14:07

      Haha i saw that coming. This post was for my sister who's in melb. I couldnt tell her i told u so.

  • The Value on 26/01/2022 - 12:44
    +1

    $50 deposit tops!

  • garetz on 26/01/2022 - 13:05
    +1

    Cheap price for lesson learned.

  • lunchbox99 on 26/01/2022 - 14:03
    +1

    Why would you pay someone a deposit? You pay the full amount on Monday in exchange for the keys and paperwork. If they sell the car in the meantime, so be it. They are praying on your desperation to gain advantage.

    • Ade99 on 27/01/2022 - 08:01

      Like with a house , paying a deposit on any major purchase to take the item off the market is a normal 'way of working'. It comes down to trust and reasonable checks that the individual is 'playing with a straight bat' and owns the vehicle in the first place. So meeting in a pub car park with lots of excuses and evasions would suggest there is a few red flags!

    • donkcat on 27/01/2022 - 10:35
      -1

      I'm not sure on other states but in Victoria the certificate of road-worthiness only lasts 30 days, given it can take longer than 30 days to find a buyer for your car most sellers will only obtain the RWC after a buyer has committed to purchasing the car by paying a deposit. So essentially you are paying a deposit to reserve the car for yourself and paying for the costs to obtain a RWC so that the seller isn't stuck with the fee if you pull out of the sale.

  • yellowfever on 26/01/2022 - 19:01
    +1

    Rego & PPSR was clear then only deposit was made.

    OP prior to placing deposit what document did you obtain to verify the sellers ownership of the car.
    The PPSR document only tells you if the car is written off, under finance, VIN and registration expiry.

    Also did you obtain a copy or photo of the sellers driver's licence and did you have a written confirmation of the sale and deposit?

    • louud on 26/01/2022 - 23:56
      +2

      Added on the checklist prior to future purchase. Thank u

    • Ade99 on 27/01/2022 - 07:57
      +1

      If you went to their house to inspect the vehicle that would help. If in a car park at the local pub then more documentation will certainly be required.

      • louud on 27/01/2022 - 17:51

        Yes apparently it was a residental property where the seller came out of the property.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2022 - 21:59
    +1

    Bikies.

  • whatthecrappin on 27/01/2022 - 07:40
    +1

    Bikies LOL. I sold a cruiser years ago, so you can imagine the type that came over to "inspect it". being a bike I couldnt exactly be on it with them either. 2 massive guys on 2 bikes turned up. 1 stayed behind with me while the other took my bike for the test ride. the whole time I'm thinking, yeah sure, I've got his old "vintage" bike, stuffed if I know if its really his, its not like I'm going to stop the other guy leaving either. Pretty sure I insisted on ID, but if he drops it, I'm still in for a world of hassles.
    stressful times
    I can see why sometimes its just easier to cut your losses and just go the dealership route.

  • randomusername2017 on 27/01/2022 - 09:54

    car is under wife butt

    Was it a mini?

    • louud on 27/01/2022 - 17:54

      Swift 2013

  • OzHunterNSW on 27/01/2022 - 13:03

    woo….. stop right there….. so you don't even know who owns the car, yet put a deposit down.

    All stories are ringing bells from the very first paragraph.

    Have you done a vehicle check…. they check the owners name, and whether any money is owed.

    Why haven't you done this….

  • BeamMeUp on 27/01/2022 - 21:39

    So angry that dishonest scumbags just get away with this stuff basically scott free to just do it again to another person. Yes we all need to take responsibility to protect ourselves against these types but it doesn’t negate the fact they are just scum and deserve some ramifications.

  • cashless on 28/01/2022 - 10:47
    +1

    Sounds like for $300 you may have dodged a bullet.
    If owner got upset because you wanted to organise an independent inspection, that is a red flag that they are trying to hide something.
    Try to get you money back, but walk away and maybe get your revenge later….

  • BeamMeUp on 28/01/2022 - 21:18

    Find a Witch doctor, Voo Doo or Black Magic practitioner and get a spell cast on them for revenge? Not directly breaking any laws but maybe will make you feel better.

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