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Hyundai 2.6kW Inverter Smart Split System Air Conditioner $599 ($589 with Kogan FIRST) Delivered @ Kogan

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Hyundai 2.6kW Inverter Smart Split System Air Conditioner $599 ($589 with Kogan FIRST) Delivered @ Kogan
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worker on 25/01/2022 - 08:56 kogan.com (3015 clicks)
Last edited 25/01/2022 - 14:09 by 2 other users
POSTMAN

OzBargains favourite air conditioner is on sale again with free shipping from our friends at Kogan.
Great air conditioner.

Now before all the the experts flood the deal with mUsT gEt A mITsUbIsHI iTs qUaLiTy tHiS oNe wIlL bLoW uP comments.

Yes it’s a cheap aircon, no it’s not as good as some other brands, yes it will cool or heat your house efficiently and you won’t actually notice any difference
These are made by Midea in China who also make kelvinator, Electrolux and many others using the same components under licence.
I’ve installed countless Midea made aircons and the only real difference that I can tell is the quality of the copper is of lower grade than what you get in some other brands and the app is a little crappy but works.

Original Coupon Deal

Electrical & Electronics Air Conditioner Hyundai

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closed Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 08:58

    Lovely aircon!

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 08:58
    +2

    Actually these are made by TCL.

    Kogan is made by Midea.

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 08:59

      Same as Midea

      • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 08:59

        So you're saying Midea also owns TCL?

        • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:02

          No I’m saying these are made by Midea, check out the remotes and app apis and Broadcom usb sticks for quick reference.

          • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:02

            @worker: see my pm

      • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:00

        Because if you look at spec wise.

        It's very identical to this.

        https://www.appliancesonline.com.au/product/tcl-26kw-reverse…

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:05
    +2

    https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-smarterhome-26kw-inverter…

    Kogan's own brand is slightly more efficient (@AEER: 4.98 (Cooling) | ACOP: 4.26 (Heating))

    These should have (AEER: 4.2 (Cooling) | ACOP: 4.06 (Heating)) assuming that it is identical to the TCL's.

    These figures are very good and on par with Mitsubishi.

    Pro's of Hyundai over the Kogan include:
    - A modern remote
    - Horizontal Swing

    • JimB on 25/01/2022 - 10:12
      +35

      Pro's of Hyundai over the Kogan include:
      - You don't have to own a Kogan branded product.
      - You have warranty from Hyundai, rather than Kogan.

      • JSONBourne on 25/01/2022 - 10:15
        +6

        Priceless

      • JimB on 25/01/2022 - 11:14
        +1

        Actually, a bit of digging around and I've found that Hyundai aircond = Kogan.

        Kogan is the importer/distributor of Hyundai aircond in Australia.

        Make that what you will.

        Personally I'll get a Hisense, Midea, Kelvinator, TCL over a Hyundai/Kogan.

        • acersaurus on 25/01/2022 - 13:09

          Being the importer is different to being the maker though.

          I have a Hyundai portable air con bought from Kogan and its a good machine, though I do wonder if a part broke would it be easy to source - might have to ask Kogan in that event.

          • JimB on 25/01/2022 - 14:07

            @acersaurus: While the machine may be good, as you said, if something goes wrong, Kogan may not carry spare parts out of warranty.

            Also, I would imagine it be a hell of lot easier to get Panasonic to fix something while under warranty compared to Kogan.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:06
    +12

    Why wouldn't one spend a little more and get something like this?

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/mitsubishi-avanti-2-5kw-reverse-…

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:11
      +3

      Maybe because they don't want to spend a little more and save some $?

      Or get a higher KW for the same price.

    • odal on 25/01/2022 - 09:55
      +4

      Some buyers are investors looking to increase the rent they can charge/rental appeal of the property. They aren't going to live in the unit/house and don't care about efficacy. Their remit is cheapest a/c & lowest price install. Keep in mind times aren't always like they are at the moment with demand exceeding supply. Then there are those who just want the cheapest everything and don't look past the initial price.

      That said, MHIAA Avanti's aren't what MHIAA ACs have been traditionally IMV. I have one, bought on the premise of experience 5 previous model MHIAA splits in the house. It's readily apparent to me the new Avanti units have been made to a super competitive maintained price point spec rather than a premium quality spec as previously, most notably the new internal unit. Used to recommend MHIAA. Not any more. Neighbour who had them previously won't either after her experience with a new Avanti replacement. She just had 5 new ones installed, 2 being replacements. After that singular 5kW Avanti experience, she went with Kaden x4 for the rest. I was dubious when she selected the brand, but have to admit, so far so good. Reliable, quiet, great cooling, can't fault them. Oldest two have been in service in her home now for 24 and 18 months respectively. The other two 3 months. Have to say, all of them outperform the Avanti. The Avanti is only 24 months old, and I think it'll be getting the flick before too much longer. She's not a happy MHIAA customer.

      • worker on 25/01/2022 - 10:12

        You would be surprised how many manufacturers use Midea or Gree for their aircons now.
        Carrier are also made by Midea in their India factory.

      • herbo on 25/01/2022 - 10:54

        An energy assessment consultant that I had go over our place recommended the MHI Avanti Plus series (the smaller models for bedrooms). Seems the plus series isn’t available from Bunnings. Maybe the “Plus” series is what they used to be?

        • odal on 26/01/2022 - 06:13

          @herbo I don't comprehend what you are trying to say unless you meant to say "Maybe the “Plus” series is NOT what they used to be?" in your last sentence?

          Can confirm, Bunnings currently don't sell the Avanti Plus series, and didn't back in June 2021 when I was buying last. Whether that's a non-competition (with the small guys for premium units) agreement between Bunnings and MHIAA, a volume/demand marketing decision or just Plus unavailability due COVID impact on production IDK, but either way, the difference between the Avanti and Avanti Plus isn't as marked as it was with the previous MHIAA series standard and premium price models from what I can glean.

          This time, predominantly due Plus unavailability and positive experience with a previous model MHIAA standard unit, I just went with a standard Avanti as it met my feature set requirements just fine, and, I liked its price too. Had the Plus been available I possibly might have gone there as given the amortization period of AC units over their life and cost of a good install, the modest premium for the higher tier amounts to a relative pittance per unit. Performance wise in the case of the Avanti though, I didn't/don't perceive any significant advantage with the Plus for the extra outlay.

          There are several things I don't like about the design of the wall unit of MHIAA's Avanti series in general, and you can see that every corner has been cut to minimise production cost vs its predecessor. It feels and looks cheap. Perhaps that's why it literally is now vs its primary competitors. Fujitsu used to be the cheapest of the major big name brands in AU. No longer.

          • herbo on 26/01/2022 - 10:36

            @odal: I can see how that statement was a bit confusing. What I meant was that perhaps recently they made the Avanti to a price to sell in places like bunnings, while the "plus" series is the better built one for specialised retailers. Just a theory though

            • odal on 26/01/2022 - 13:44

              @herbo: No, not a stream marketing tool. There are two models of the Avanti just as there were two models previously, standard and premium, but using different people friendly marketing nomenclature instead. i.e. Avanti and Avanti Plus instead of just their product code ref. MHIAA have been and are having issues supplying demand. Sold out, the Avanti Plus hasn't been available for an age, but is still a current model AFAIK. It's difficult enough to source a standard Avanti given COVIDs impact on production and distribution, or was.

      • toomuchdogfur on 25/01/2022 - 21:08
        +3

        Hah, I once stayed in an "architect designed" AirBNB - very pretty place, but the owner furnished it with the cheapest appliances I've ever seen.

        • ??? Brand A/C with completely broken or missing temperature sensor
        • Noisy ass Kogan fridge
        • Noisy ass Kogan dishwasher
        • Tiny Teac TV, mounted up high and far with a 10:1 contrast ratio (guesstimated)

        So yeah, some people give zero frigs if they're not the ones using the things.

    • ArskinF on 25/01/2022 - 13:10
      +1

      Mitsubishi usually have generous cash back offers on A/C, around mid year. At least according to our refrigeration/ A/C guy.

    • bio on 25/01/2022 - 13:54
      +3

      Because +33% is not a "little more"?

    • frazel on 25/01/2022 - 21:29

      I have 3 if these, they are great and super power efficient

  • s12321 on 25/01/2022 - 09:07

    what is "quality of the copper is of lower grade"? How do i tell? :D

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:16
      +1

      Thinner walls and not as pliable. (Kinks easily)

  • HD9990 on 25/01/2022 - 09:07
    +7

    I have no issues buying a $600 air con, but to install it with the same amount of purchasing (if not more) is a bit…..

    • capslock on 25/01/2022 - 09:40
      +13

      I will never buy a split system on its own again. It's hard to find a reasonably priced installer. Most installers will only do it if they also get to sell you the unit.

      • OhNoUShiz on 25/01/2022 - 09:42
        +6

        I was thinking the same until they gave me the quote including supplying the aircon. They also jack up the price of the split system. It ended up even more costly.

        • Underlord on 25/01/2022 - 09:50

          I've found the opposite.. They access the aircons at trade prices, so can get you a better price than the stores.

        • xmail on 25/01/2022 - 10:19
          +2

          Might depend whether you go with your preferred brand vs their preferred brand (which they have stock on hand they bought at bulk/trade discount).

        • Montyjpm on 25/01/2022 - 10:25
          +3

          When they see "split" they see "$$$"

      • ArskinF on 25/01/2022 - 13:12

        Double Plus One that. See my post above.

        We use a local business to supply & fix. It's the only way.

    • meowsers on 25/01/2022 - 09:47
      +8

      TBH DIY is pretty easy but only if you reasonably know what you're doing.

      I bought a vacuum pump, manifold, torque spanners (yeah I went overkill) and flange tool / micron gauge from ebay for less than the price of 1 install and did 3 of them, the electrician wired them in.

      You can even get pair coil that is already flanged and ready if you're lazy. Polyaire sells the mounts and pair coil cheap. Don't forget to order some Nylog blue to keep your seals tight.

      Before someone chimes in with refrigerant license bullshit, I'm not listening. The gas is already precharged, you're only screwed if you didn't do a good job and you lose a charge. In that case — even the tech that will come to fix it will probably bitch about not having R32 gas. Not everyone stocks it, it's expensive. So do a decent job.

      But if you've done one before, and you watch some youtube you'll be alright. Mine have been going for years now at our holiday property.

      • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:55

        Pretty much this, also if you have a disconnect license you can stick a lead on the outdoor unit and plug it in to an outside socket if you really want to diy the lot.

        • regenade on 25/01/2022 - 16:23

          Why do trades charge so much then ? Just because they can do in this climate ?

          • Russ on 25/01/2022 - 16:38
            +1

            @regenade:

            Why do trades charge so much

            There are "good" tradies who charge a reasonable fee, but there are also "bad" tradies who assume that one-in-five customers won't know how much a job is worth, so they jack up their profit margin 5x or more, and wait for that gullible customer.

            If you ring one of the companies that send you fridge magnets in the mail, they're just adding another 20% to the cost, which also makes it much more likely you'll get a "bad" tradie.

            I've learned that good tradies don't advertise, they don't need to, they get plenty of work through recommendations.

          • worker on 25/01/2022 - 17:21
            +1

            @regenade: Because they know if you diy you are up for $400-$600 in equipment to do the job and if you make a mistake your up for gas which can be expensive.
            If you are competent at the job then $600 to $800 is a fair price once you factor in insurance and call backs for whatever reason.
            Also to do it properly you need 2 licenses so you have to get your electrical license and your refrigeration license.
            Getting one person in to do 2 trades work comes at a cost and everyone wants it done today.

          • spaceflight on 26/01/2022 - 08:48
            +1

            @regenade: Because they are skilled people who have undertaken study to get at least 2 licenses.

            You are paying for their skills, not just the time it takes.

      • dcash on 25/01/2022 - 20:15

        Agreed, it's not at all difficult if you're careful to make the flares properly and tighten the flare nuts to the correct torque.

        I've also witnessed licensed installers not bothering to evacuate the lines prior to charging the system. I'm not saying this is standard or good practice, but clearly it does happen.

  • dasher86 on 25/01/2022 - 09:12

    why not just get something like this?

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:13
      +1

      Maybe because they don't want a 1.7kw with terrible energy ratings?

    • squall3031 on 25/01/2022 - 09:14

      is 1.7 kW good enough for 3x3 m bedroom?

      • Dsiee on 25/01/2022 - 09:59

        If it is an insulated room and a "normal Australian" climate (aka no snow and not arid with a western aspect) it will be OK.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:16
    -1

    Sooner or later this post is going to be flooded by the haters and OP's going to give up from the all the hate just like all the previous posts. 😂

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:17
      +2

      Let the hate come, 🤷

      • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:18

        :/

    • s12321 on 25/01/2022 - 09:28
      +4

      Just don't buy it, because installation and maintenance cost is high if it broken down so easily.

      Hate will generate a lot of heat, it better not to hate in a hot summer day. :)

  • RockyRaccoon on 25/01/2022 - 09:21
    +4

    Look it maybe a good price BUT

    ozbargains favourite

    and

    These are made by Midea in China who also make kelvinator, Electrolux and many others using the same components under licence.

    Kelvinator and Electrolux, two brands always at the low end of Choice recommendations. Maybe due to the manufacturing quality?

    Let the hate come

    This will only come when someone overhypes a deal with BS

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:26

      OP is taking a stab at all those haters from before 😂.

      • RockyRaccoon on 25/01/2022 - 09:28

        Oh do you mean the ones who voted this as Ozbargains favourite - guess I missed that thread 🤦🏻

        • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:30
          +4

          Nope.

          OP got bashed from his previous posts of this AC.

          I reckon he's saying "Ozbargains fav" to have a go at them.

          • RockyRaccoon on 25/01/2022 - 09:54

            @[Deactivated]: Makes sense now you explain it. thank you

            But assuming your audience is the same when taking the micky out of them, isnt the best way to get a laugh.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:26

      Also these are not made by Midea.

      Worker purchased a previous model…

      • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:32
        +3

        Dude give it up, you have no idea what I purchased and didn't purchase. I install these for a living.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:33

          Spreading bs won't help.

          • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:36
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: Sure. Where is the bs? You saw some specs on a website and now your an expert?

            • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:45

              @worker: In your entire post…

              Exaggerated BS.

              Point to me where this says it is made by Midea.

              Never claimed to be an expert. Simply telling the facts. Go read the previous posts of this model. Other people have also said this was a TCL.

              Maybe the hate is well deserved…

              • 1st-Amendment on 25/01/2022 - 09:58
                +3

                @[Deactivated]:

                Simply telling the facts.

                No, you told us what you reckon. And what you reckon is not the same as a fact.

                Now, you could be correct, or the other guy could be correct, but there is no evidence provided by either of you so far that the independent reader can verify, so it's all just opinion at this stage, not fact.

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:30
      +1

      Just for you, it’s $38 more, for safety!
      choice know eVeRyThInG and totally want you to buy their subscription so you can be informed by their non biased testing that they totally do not get kik backs for.

      https://www.thegoodguyscommercial.com.au/kelvinator-c25kw-h3…

      • dasher86 on 25/01/2022 - 09:35
        +6

        With warranty from the good guys vs Kogan, I'll take the $38 any day of the week.

        • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:37

          I would too!

      • RockyRaccoon on 25/01/2022 - 09:39
        +1

        Fair enough, I guess I'm not experienced enough to tell if Choice or Worker have the real expertise to be my go to "favourite" airconditioning expert.

        Now who should advise me on Crypto currency?.😀

      • AlexCCC on 25/01/2022 - 11:27

        I think it all comes down to the "SMART" system that is built-in to this unit, or additional $199 Mitsubishi Unit, or third party from Kogan/Amazon etc for say $100++.

  • TooSerious2 on 25/01/2022 - 09:27

    I have one of these. Works fine, pretty quiet. Cost more to install ($700) in rural area. Would buy again.

  • Manny Calavera on 25/01/2022 - 09:32
    +2

    mUsT gEt A mITsUbIsHI iTs qUaLiTy tHiS oNe wIlL bLoW uP

    I'd have also accepted Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Or Daikin.

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 09:38

      Lol Daikin.

      • spaceflight on 25/01/2022 - 11:22
        +2

        What's wrong with them?

        • worker on 25/01/2022 - 12:11

          Nothing is wrong with them at all, I just find it funny when people try to call them a superior brand.

          • onon0402 on 25/01/2022 - 12:22

            @worker: Any recommendation for a "superior" brand?

            • worker on 25/01/2022 - 13:24
              +2

              @onon0402: Sure, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, LG, Fujitsu.

              The price difference vs superiority though leaves little to be desired these days, they are all smart, they are all quiet and a lot of them use the same components.

              • jabroni on 25/01/2022 - 14:01

                @worker: what about samsung? and why are black/silver ones only sold by appliance online

              • Jdrizzle on 25/01/2022 - 20:06

                @worker: Ugh we have a Panasonic in a rental, and I think it was a Panasonic in the last rental we were in too, try and use the Cool mode it's pathetic and just leaks and spits ice everywhere after an hour. This is 2 weeks after a tech has serviced it too (it's too high for me to clean the filters myself). One tech said it was leaking gas, second said it wasnt and just cleaned filters and said it was fine… dry mode at least works sometimes now… But yeah unless I want to hear ice being ground up and scaring the heck out of everyone I can't use the actual AC.

                The last one wasn't as bad, but it still leaked water and the occasional ice cube hissy fit, but the previous occupants were clearly smokers and the owner was a douche who just painted the walls instead of cleaning them so I had fun getting that smell out, and that AC filter was a nightmare to clean out… I want to just get a small ladder so I can give this current one another clean (would 2-3 weeks really affect it that much??) But Mrs. J knows how clumsy I am and says I really shouldn't attempt such a feat….

  • essent1al on 25/01/2022 - 09:38
    +1

    @worker what about the 5.2 or 7.2kw versions? I think 2.6kw might be too small https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/hyundai-52kw-inverter-smart-spl…

    • worker on 25/01/2022 - 10:00
      +1

      2.6 is ok for a medium sized bedroom. If you want a larger area like a lounge or bigger, definitely get a larger one.

      This guy explains it very well for most situations.
      https://airconditioningexpert.com.au/right-size-air-conditio…

      • essent1al on 25/01/2022 - 10:19

        It looks like the 3.5kw offers the best value in terms of kw/$, do you think this is a worthy upgrade? Hoping to cool the bedroom and maybe some of the house with the door open :D

        • worker on 25/01/2022 - 11:10

          Air conditioners don't work well pushing and pulling air through doorways.
          Unfortunately the fans in the indoor units do not have the capability to pull air from adjacent rooms too cool.
          2.5 is more than enough to do a bedroom 3.5 is overkill and you will be freezing in the bedroom and still hot in the rest of the house.
          I would buy a 2.5 for the bedroom and get another one for the main area of the house.

          You could use a pedestal fan to try and push air through the doorway but it will still be mildly cool compared to the bedroom.

          • sween64 on 25/01/2022 - 15:34

            @worker: I disagree. Cooling two rooms with one unit can work to some extent. We have a 3.5kW system in a study (3 x 3.4m) which is directly opposite the door and able to cool the sun room (3.2 x 3.8m) next to it.

            • worker on 25/01/2022 - 17:33

              @sween64: Your right it does to some extent but also really depends on insulation in the house, windows size and where the afternoon sun comes in.

              • sween64 on 25/01/2022 - 18:07

                @worker: Those two rooms of my house face west. The sun room has good insulation including double glazed windows. The study has little to no insulation.

                I think the room size to kW ratio is in my favour and the insulation of the sun room really helps.

          • Jackson on 25/01/2022 - 22:03

            @worker: I currently do exactly this with a pedestal fan, it actually works pretty good. I have a 2.7kW pointing at a door on the far side of the lounge, and the pedestal fan works wonders to cool down the bedrooms.

            On a side note I had a midea split in a rental up in qld where AC is probably running a lot, and it only failed after 15 years. At that point I tried to get the part but they weren't available (a barrel fan failed). While it would have been nice to get the part, really at 15 years I can write that off and get a new one, knowing that I saved the few hundred bucks up front

      • Warehouse on 25/01/2022 - 12:01

        I've picked up at least 3 units (>7kw) off marketplace from $100-$300 - installation costs will be relatively the same no matter if new or old (my guy does for me for ~$250)

        If you're looking to set up bigger units, this might be the way to go in terms of cost. Sure the units you pick up might be old and you risk issues.. but seriously for that price difference it is worth considering… also much quicker to swap a dead unit than dealing with downtime and warranty for a "new" system when you really need it (e.g. in a hot af summer…) /my 2c

        • worker on 25/01/2022 - 12:13

          Bang on, people replace aircons all the time instead of cleaning them correctly and treating the mould. Quick clean and a gas up and they are as good as new most of the time.

    • Mokr on 25/01/2022 - 10:13
      +1

      Got a 5KW cooling aircon in a very open plan space (Kitchen+dinning+lounge) + big windows- in very hot weather + sunset light, it can get it down to 25-24.

      So its okay if you fine with not super cool home,

  • Haxxa on 25/01/2022 - 09:42

    I have been looking at getting a small ~2.5kw split for my Bedroom. I qualify for the Victorian Energy Saver ($1000) rebate, but every quote I have got (over phone) for supply and install of a ~2.5kw split has been around 2000-3000$.

    At this stage considering getting something like this and finding an installer myself.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2022 - 09:45
      +1

      Depends how easy the install is, if its a 'back to back' install labour and parts is about 600-800 in Melbourne.

      • Haxxa on 25/01/2022 - 09:59

        Brand new switchboard with a RCBO ready to fit, back-to-back install on a single story small unit and only 10 meters away from the Switchboard. House built in 2002. Easy clearance to everything. It should be a straight forward install. But the demand generated from the rebate has made installers charge premium prices from what I can garner.

        • odal on 25/01/2022 - 10:40
          +3

          66 is on the money. Currently a straightforward back to back 2.5kW split install tapping in to an existing power circuit should set you back around $700-$800. Under that, I'd be cautious, over that I'd be asking why unless obvious -i.e. more complexity/materials/parts. Add to that the price of the unit you are installing, and you have what you should be paying total. So for a typical 2.5kW split from Fujitsu, MHIAA, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic expect to pay around $800-$900, all up $1400-$1700 for a competent neat and tidy install by qualified people depending upon which brand and installer you choose.

          • Ozbargainasaurus on 25/01/2022 - 12:01

            @odal: Bang on. Just got the new model Panasonic 2.5kw, incl. installation (in March 🤔) for $1,500 from the good guys

            • glashalful on 25/01/2022 - 13:46

              @Ozbargainasaurus: Can you please share your experience with the installer ? Did good guys cordinated the installation or you had to get an installer yourself ?

              • Ozbargainasaurus on 25/01/2022 - 15:15
                +1

                @glashalful: Hasn't been installed yet, massive wait, which GG told me about before I bought. But so far so good. Good guys organised, a day later installer texted me saying he's got my details, confirmed date, and would be in touch closer to the time. Make sure you negotiate with good guys, I should have paid 1750, but got it down the 1500, all up, Inc delivery/install.

                • glashalful on 25/01/2022 - 15:53

                  @Ozbargainasaurus: I see, thank you for the info. Just wondering how firm are they on installation cost ? (Im wondering about the possibility for the installer to increase the installation cost on the day of installation)

                • anoykw on 25/01/2022 - 16:12

                  @Ozbargainasaurus: You purchased in March 2021 and still waiting for it to be installed?

                  • Ozbargainasaurus on 25/01/2022 - 16:18

                    @anoykw: @aniykw No purchased only last week (to be installed March 2022) @Glashalful, yeah you're right. There's always the chance I guess…

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