Niece Ran Red Light Whilst with Driving Instructor

CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 22:59

Niece on Ls is taking lesson with a proper instructor.
Long story short, she ran the red light.
Victoria.

Long version:
I BELIEVE, coming up to lights light was yellow and instructor told her to keep going, think she hesitated, then went and ended up going through the red.
OR light was green and I imagine she was either driving really slow and has somehow gone through the light after the yellow and into the red.

In any case, I think the driver/L plater ends up getting the demerits and fine?

My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

Automotive

Comments

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 15/12/2021 - 23:04
    +13

    My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

    None of us has any information that would explain the situation. Have you spoken to the driving instructor who was in the car at the time?

  • pharkurnell on 15/12/2021 - 23:09
    +3

    awesome learner school… whcih one?

    • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:12
      +10

      whcih one?

      It's called "Cash only…"

  • bdl on 15/12/2021 - 23:13
    +8

    My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

    They were too busy pulling the handbrake to ensure the J-turn was successful…

    • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:14
      +1

      🤣

  • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:13
    +3

    My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

    My only thought is why didn't she learn in her learner's test to stop at a red light?

    Isn't that on page one?

    • CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 23:22

      From what I've been told, it was either yellow, or green and turned yellow - instructor said keep on going - the L plater hesitation involved between her trusting her gut and listening to the instructor, resulted in her running the light which I imagine would have been red by then.

      Not a big deal though, realised L platers have 11 demerit points, thought it was only 3 or 4. Not my concern anymore lol.

      The instructor sounds terrible though. I had a German instructor and he was really good.

      • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:25

        From what I've been told, it was either yellow

        You can't commence to cross on yellow.

        • CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 23:25

          I know. Crappy instructor.

          • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:29
            +1

            @CalmLemons: You know you can change instructors, right?

            • CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 23:31

              @jv: I've told them to get another instructor. I normally cannot be bothered with family. My cousin gives me a headache. The niece however shouldn't need to pay for the parents sins.

              • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:32
                +1

                @CalmLemons:

                The niece however shouldn't need to pay for the parents sins.

                She does need to pay if she broke the law…

                • CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 23:33
                  +1

                  @jv: Pay as in the parents choosing a crappy instructor and her having to pay the price of being taught by a crappy instructor..

                  Paying the fine is a non-issue.

                  • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:35
                    +1

                    @CalmLemons:

                    parents choosing a crappy instructor

                    Why did they choose that instructor?

                    Perhaps a family friend?

                    This could get messy…

                  • weezlebub on 16/12/2021 - 10:35

                    @CalmLemons: it may be, if the instructor was a backyarder - all good

                    if it was a company car, the cost of fines can be quite a bit more (in SA, it's an additional ~800$ but no demerits are incurred)

              • Chandler on 16/12/2021 - 11:35

                @CalmLemons: If it's the (first-?) cousin's daughter, she's actually your first cousin once-removed :)

                Although most people stick with auntie/uncle niece/nephew for simplicity, especially in close-knit families where cousins are sometimes as close as siblings.

        • pharkurnell on 16/12/2021 - 09:50

          That depends if your a few feet from the white line and doing the speed limit … so yes you can
          You stop if its safe to do so

        • coffeeinmyveins on 17/12/2021 - 14:57

          You can't commence to cross on yellow.

          Yes you can. If it was not reasonable to slow down in time eg: you have to slam your brakes on, skid, the car behind you rear ends you.

          Then you can "commence to cross".

          • jv on 17/12/2021 - 15:02

            @coffeeinmyveins:

            If it was not reasonable to slow down

            And how is 'reasonable' defined in the legal sense?

            • coffeeinmyveins on 17/12/2021 - 17:08

              @jv:

              Based on Rule 57 of the Road Rules 2014, at yellow lights you must stop at traffic lights, stop lines and intersections if it is safe to do so.

              Did the two seconds of Googling for you, there you go.

              • jv on 17/12/2021 - 17:12

                @coffeeinmyveins: So who gets to decide if it was 'safe' or not when you get a speed camera fine? and what are the criteria?

                  • jv on 17/12/2021 - 17:28

                    @coffeeinmyveins:

                    You get a speed camera fine if you are going over the speed limit, or you run a red light.

                    You might have entered whilst on yellow.

                    • coffeeinmyveins on 17/12/2021 - 17:45

                      @jv: You're getting super specific about scenarios now….

                      If you enter whilst on a amber and it trips the red light camera, that means you went over the sensor when it went to red, which means you were going through the amber at the last possible moment because the sensor is right over the line.

                      This is THE definition of "not safe to go through the amber light". It's implying that you WERE far enough back that you could have stopped safely, but didn't.

                      • jv on 17/12/2021 - 17:45

                        @coffeeinmyveins:

                        If you enter whilst on a amber and it trips the red light camera, that means you went over the sensor when it went to red

                        How ?

                        • coffeeinmyveins on 17/12/2021 - 17:53

                          @jv: Do you have an actual question or argument to make or are you like a child that just keeps asking "why"?

        • quog on 17/12/2021 - 17:56

          Yea you can in Victoria.

  • kanmen on 15/12/2021 - 23:27

    Okay but was there a camera?

    • CalmLemons on 15/12/2021 - 23:29

      Yeah. Otherwise my cousin wouldn't be going on about it.

      • kanmen on 15/12/2021 - 23:34
        +3

        Okay and was there a flash?

        In any case if there is a fine, it would come to the instructor. I'd say you'd need to negotiate with the instructor what happens from there onwards.

        I don't think it's fair to blame the instructor, either way your niece needs more practice and guidance.

  • outlander on 15/12/2021 - 23:34

    My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

    Driving instructors get bored, and start assuming the risk of new drivers is overblown. Mine used to be constantly telling me to drive faster/accelerate harder. I assumed he knew better so I just outsourced that processing to him.

    I think he got a bit of a reality check when we almost smashed straight through the front end of a car that was waiting to make a left turn about a metre into the oncoming lane. He had to slam on the brakes, because I did not slow down at all.

    • p1 ama on 16/12/2021 - 16:59

      I assumed he knew better so I just outsourced that processing to him.

      What do you mean by "outsourced that processing to him"?

      I think he got a bit of a reality check when we almost smashed straight through the front end of a car that was waiting to make a left turn about a metre into the oncoming lane. He had to slam on the brakes, because I did not slow down at all.

      I don't see how him telling you to drive faster or accelerate harder led you to almost smash into another car waiting to make a left turn?

      • coffeeinmyveins on 17/12/2021 - 17:29

        What do you mean by "outsourced that processing to him"?

        They're implying that when someone in a position of authority (eg: teaching you how to drive) is telling you something, you accept that what they're telling you must be within the confines of the law, because they know best, so you listen.

        Add to that an impressionable and stressed out teenager, you're going to listen to what the instructor says.

  • jv on 15/12/2021 - 23:35
    +6

    I think it might be easiest just to get a new cousin…

  • Mokr on 15/12/2021 - 23:41
    +1

    The trigger for a red-light camera is located just over the stop line and is activated 0.5 seconds after the yellow light changes to red. So in order to get a red-light camera fine, you have not stopped during the yellow and have gone through the red half a second too late.

    • Domingo on 16/12/2021 - 10:44

      Do you have a source for that? It's interesting, would just love to read about it in detail.

      • pegaxs on 16/12/2021 - 11:55

        I'm not sure it is 0.5 second. This would put a car about 2 to 3 car lengths back from the intersection in a 60km/h zone. It may be different for different intersections, depending on how wide they are, but it's basically a buffer to allow cars that were over the line in a red to clear the intersection.

        You will often see on the fine photo that there is a trigger time or a "how long light was red" for.

        If you really wanted to know the engineering for it, it would be listed in one of the Australian Standards for traffic lights and intersections.

  • Belv on 16/12/2021 - 01:51
    +3

    If it's an old camera they would of seen a flash. If it's new then no flash ….

  • El cheepo on 16/12/2021 - 08:06

    I think they both would get the fine wouldnt they?
    An instructor is supposed to be responsible for the person learning.

    If an instructor can’t be drunk or playing on their phone, surely that is putting them on the line for what the learner does.

  • Big Lenny on 16/12/2021 - 08:55

    $454 down the hole

  • boostpak on 16/12/2021 - 09:18
    +1

    Can you draw the incident on ms paint?

  • AndyC1 on 16/12/2021 - 10:23
    +1

    Are you sure the car has a second brake pedal? I would changing driving schools as it shows the instructor is not very good.

  • jimbobaus on 16/12/2021 - 10:41

    coming up to lights light was yellow and instructor told her to keep going

    Yeah… i am calling BS on this

    • pegaxs on 16/12/2021 - 12:02
      +2

      I wouldn't. I rang a local driving school and ripped their instructor a new one over them teaching kids to drive through yellow light on multiple occasions.

      Busted them on a few different days doing the same shit. No brake lights and acceleration at lights turning yellow.

      Once off, ok, hesitant new driver. But again and again over multiple seperate incidents, I needed to say something.

      The reason is people who were taught poorly are now passing on their bad habits and compounding their mistakes to the new generation of young drivers.

      • bobbified on 16/12/2021 - 12:14

        … teaching kids to drive through yellow light on multiple occasions.

        I see your point, but there are valid reasons to drive through a yellow light.

        • pegaxs on 16/12/2021 - 14:01
          +1

          Yeah, and travelling at 50% of the speed limit and arriving as it is about to turn red with no safety issue within sight is not one of them.

          They all had plenty of time to stop due to their low speed and coupled with them not even attempting to brake and even accelerating to beat the red is bad practice and falls outside the intended rules surrounding yellow lights.

          The road rules states that if it is safe to stop, you must stop on yellow, not accelerate up to beat a red.

          • p1 ama on 17/12/2021 - 01:04
            -1

            @pegaxs:

            They all had plenty of time to stop due to their low speed and coupled with them not even attempting to brake and even accelerating to beat the red is bad practice and falls outside the intended rules surrounding yellow lights.

            I bet that if someone stopped "too early" on a yellow, you'd be complaining just the same.

            Ultimately (and you know this), the decider is (i) when the light actually turns red, and (ii) whether you are within the speed limit. My view has always been that if you make it past the white line before the light turns red and you're within the speed limit, then it's fair game. The same standard that red light cameras use.

            • pegaxs on 17/12/2021 - 14:44

              @p1 ama:

              I bet that if someone stopped "too early" on a yellow, you'd be complaining just the same.

              Then you would be wrong. I have no issues with people abiding by the road rules and slowing down/stopping when they have to. It isn't the drivers fault the lights changed. And I have a lot of tolerance for learner drivers who are out practicing. I give them all the space and time they need to learn safely.

              Ultimately (and you know this), the decider is (i) when the light actually turns red

              Again, incorrect. The road rules state that if it is safe to do so, you must stop on the yellow light.

              My view has always been that if you make it past the white line before the light turns red… then it's fair game.

              Then, once again, you are "wrong". The road rules state;

              57 Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow

              (1) A driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a yellow traffic light must stop

              The fine in NSW, for failing to stop on a yellow light, is $464 and 3 demerits. (Incidentally, in a school zone, this fine jumps to $581 and 4 demerits.)

        • Quantumcat on 16/12/2021 - 16:47
          +1

          Only if it turns yellow when you are too close and it would be dangerous for you to suddenly slam on the brakes. Not when it has been yellow for a while and is about to turn red.

  • bobbified on 16/12/2021 - 11:00
    +2

    The instructor can only make a "suggestion" - ultimately, your niece was driving.
    It could've been perfectly fine to continue at the time when he said it and the hesitation you mentioned might've taken up that extra second or so that was the difference between amber and red.

  • Mikinoz on 16/12/2021 - 11:14
    +1

    I think the driving instructor taught your niece a very valid lesson here

  • Big Lenny on 16/12/2021 - 11:20
    +1

    person behind the wheel cops it, not the instructor

  • orangetrain on 16/12/2021 - 11:34

    Unless your "niece" has a dashcam, it's a he said she said situation.

  • p1 ama on 16/12/2021 - 11:53
    +2

    In any case, I think the driver/L plater ends up getting the demerits and fine?

    Might get some disagreement on this, but my view is always that the person in the drivers' seat is the one who needs to make the decisions and is ultimately responsible. The person sitting next to them, whether that person be a driving instructor, a parent, a friend, an Uber passenger or whoever can give whatever advice they want to give, the driver still needs to be responsible. The point of the Learner's test is to make sure you know the road rules.

    If you can't accept responsibility for your actions, you're not ready to be on the road.

  • Drakesy on 16/12/2021 - 11:57
    +2

    She's in control of the car
    She ran the red light.

  • netjock on 16/12/2021 - 11:57

    OR light was green and I imagine she was either driving really slow and has somehow gone through the light after the yellow and into the red.

    Unless it is an old system. The new ones have sensors that detect car going into the intersection after the light goes red.

  • Seraphin7 on 16/12/2021 - 12:08
    +2

    My only thought is why the instructor doesn't press on the brake to avoid her running the red?

    Driver is always responsible for the operation of the vehicle.

  • Baysew on 16/12/2021 - 12:32

    At least they aren't parking over driveways.

  • Drpepper666 on 16/12/2021 - 14:57
    +1

    If the instructor told her to drive off a bridge, would she? In any case, she definitely got a driving lesson that day!

  • baker bob on 16/12/2021 - 20:28

    Ahh right so now I understand this mentality most people have that amber = hammer it originates from crap instructors.

  • 2esc on 19/12/2021 - 17:57

    Unless you can see what actually happened inside the car you can only speculate there is always more than one viewpoint on what actually happen.

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