Digital Camera: No Where to be Seen This Year

Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 09:55
Last edited 15/12/2021 - 14:23

I just went to check on what digital cameras are available and on sale this Xmas and there's really not much, in fact there's not much that isn't in the higher end of 2k and up been posted.

So what happened? I know phone cameras are getting better, but there's always been a market around Xmas for budding enthusiast kits, single lens and dual lens kits of the bottom few cameras.

Feel free to recommend me something for someone who's only starting to dip their toes in the water of photography.

Edit: Thanks for the replies so far. Some further questions around this:

  1. I think personally I prefer a smaller mirrorless than a DSLR size since I'm more likely to take it places, but it's for someone else and that's a personal preference so either
  2. What's your opinion on if a bridge camera would suffice? There's a Panasonic FZ80 on Amazon for $429, but will it stand up to e.g Canon 1500d and would missing out on the interchangeable lenses be a big deal (after all they are expensive and not sure the recipient would go to the expense)
  3. Since it seems the renaissance of DSLRs has come and gone by now, is the second hand market worth looking at? Or is it full of pitfalls
  4. Does any brand tend to have cheaper lenses, or is better served by aftermarket and therefore cheaper?
  5. Are there any interchangeable lens systems that are better to keep away from due to price or failure?

Edit 2: One more question, what does anyone think about micro 4/3 specifically? I'm looking also at the Panasonic GX8xx line

Edit 3: After a convo with the recipient, we've settled on the Panasonic GX880. I've also learned that they want to do nature and macro shots mainly. Can anyone fill me in on if that requires the macro lens (which is $400+) or can we get away with the kit lens?

Electrical & Electronics Camera

Comments

  • bobbified on 14/12/2021 - 09:57
    +1

    Can't go wrong with Nikon or Canon if you're looking for DSLR to start. They have models to suit beginners to advanced professionals. Decide carefully on which one you buy because you'll be buying into the brand's ecosystem.

    There's also plenty of forums to discuss how to make the most of it too.

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 10:22

      are any particular brands cheaper on lenses? I figure that's probably the biggest ongoing expense.

      Currently JB's cheapest is the Canon 1500d which is going for 749, but can be as cheap as 610 elsewhere. Nikon doesn't have anything under 1500 at JB. Sony Likewise, all well over $1000

      You used to be able to get a single lens kit for a few hundred and for a couple of bucks more a twin lens kit, seems those days are gone

      • macrocephalic on 14/12/2021 - 12:45
        +2

        Lenses all tend to be similar prices retail, the difference is that Canon and Nikon have 30-50 years back catalogue of compatible lenses on the second hand market. You don't get this with Sony or m43 cameras. Yes there are adapters, but adapted lenses are never quite as good.

        This is probably the cheapest you'll find at the moment: https://www.cccwarehouse.com.au/xcart/pc/Canon-EOS-3000D-wit…

        • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:47

          Hey, that's a really good price, it's definitely in my shortlist

          • macrocephalic on 14/12/2021 - 12:58

            @Jackson: If it wasn't a gift then I'd say definitely go second hand. Things like the original 6d, 5d2/3 are pretty cheap used now.

            • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 13:03

              @macrocephalic: Yeah I've just had a check on ebay, and there's heaps of cameras that are perfectly fine going cheap if you are happy to take video on your phone (since they HD/FHD only)

    • HeWhoKnows on 15/12/2021 - 12:27

      Plenty in great condition going dirt cheap on Gumtree and Facebook Marketplace

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/12/2021 - 09:58
    +2

    in fact there's not much that isn't in the higher end of 2k and up been posted.

    1. Shortages of various electrical components so stock is harder to get, as well as pricing having increased.
    2. Flagship phones are actually killing it and will do 99% of the time especially in anything remotely decently lit.

    What's your budget? I assume 500-1k?

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 10:23

      Yeah budget is 500-1k, but I was initially expecting to pay 500 for a single lens kit an maybe 700 for a twin, but can't find much in that bracket. They used to be the RRPs a couple of years ago, so I thought it would be easy to find.

      I also just read that Canon is dumping their EF lens line, so maybe it's futile buying a single lens kit anyway?

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/12/2021 - 10:59

        500 for a single lens kit doesn’t get you very far

        You can get some micro 43 kits at this price eg

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/666411

        • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 11:02

          A few years ago there was usually a choice between Canon, Nikon and Sony at the price. It seems now there's really nothing. I picked up my Sony for $287 back in the day, which was very cheap, but now the cheapest is 2.5 times it seems.

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/12/2021 - 11:05
            +1

            @Jackson: Yeah a few years ago it would have been something like canon 1000d and Nikon d3100 or something. I kind of remember them going for north of $500 though brand new.

            • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:30

              @Jimothy Wongingtons: My personal purchases were a long time ago in what was probably a goldilocks period, but included this https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/96397 and this (I actually got the a3000 but can't find it now) https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/169911, it seems those days are long gone.

              These were also some good deals back in the day: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/222849

              • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/12/2021 - 12:32

                @Jackson: lol that was some good times in the intial fold up/collapse of the OG dick smith empire.
                So many trade in shenganigans at EB.

                As for the pentax Q, talk about the worst sensor in the world lol. That being said I did have 3 sets back in the day, resold them for a slight profit after I got sick of them.

                • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:36

                  @Jimothy Wongingtons: It's a small sensor, but it's still a great camera to take out during a summers day for a trip into town. The camera and both lenses take up the same space as a dslr body on its own :-)

                  It also had exactly the same setup as a more professional Pentax camera, which made it a great beginners camera. Pay stuff all, learn, and if you like it go buy an upscale model. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option these days, $799 to get in with a single kit lens seems like a lot to me, esp when people don't know if they will like it.

      • macrocephalic on 14/12/2021 - 12:50
        +1

        I wouldn't stress about EF lenses going away, in some ways it's a great time to be using them as the second hand market will be flooded with them as people move over to mirrorless.

        I have a a7r2 and still use a lot of EF lenses on it with an adapter - as the EF 70-200 f4 costs about $400 second hand, but the equivalent FE lens is more like $800 at the cheapest. Similarly the 50MM f1.8 is cheap and cheerful and normally costs about $150, but the sony 50mm f1.8 (which looks better made, but doesn't really perform any better) is $300.

  • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 09:58

    Are you definitely after an interchangeable lens camera or would a bridge camera suffice?

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 10:25

      A bridge camera could be fine, but the person who's getting it already has one of these I believe, which are pretty good IMO: https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/support/compact-cameras-…

      as such, not sure if a bridge camera is enough of a step up. I understand that technically the camera above is a compact, but it's got a lot of manual modes and the pics are decent. On that note any mirrorless is probably fine, e.g. a micro 4/3 or something would be cool but there's so little in the market under 1k.

      • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 11:10
        +1

        Yeah that's a really good Sony G lens compact camera. A base model lens kit dslr may infact leave them a bit disappointed. The lenses are typically very average and to improve on them you can be talking $$$ unless you like shooting with good prime lenses eg 50mm.

        There are of course advantages with dslr like a bigger sensor, less noise at higher iso, looking more professional etc but maybe ask if they definitely want an interchangeable lens camera before your fork out the money.

        Edit: just saw your edit above

        There's a Panasonic FZ80 on Amazon

        I own this camera and have for a while. I use it when I can't be jacked lugging gear around and need more zoom than a phone camera. It's actually a really good camera and I've had some great results from it. It's biggest weakness is noise in low light (especially indoors) but that is expected and I don't bother using it in those conditions. It does have a hot shoe for an external flash which would probably help out here but I've never bothered.

        It feels like a traditional dslr to handle and manipulate settings so may be a good step up from the Sony compact.

        • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:43

          what do you think about e.g. a Panasonic GX8xx micro 4/3 camera? Good enough to sit above the HX60 and compare to a base model SLR e.g. Canon 1500d?

          • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 13:12
            +1

            @Jackson: Can't say with authority. I've never used that camera or ever owned a 4/3 camera. Sorry.

  • CyberMurning on 14/12/2021 - 10:11
    +1

    Because covid
    Because mobile phone

  • nubix on 14/12/2021 - 10:19

    dcxpert, digidirect and camerahouse just had 25% off on black friday :(

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 10:27

      I know, needless to say I would have thought of this back then. Unfortunately someone's left their xmas present purchase very late :-)

  • dust on 14/12/2021 - 11:09

    The important question you haven't answered is what type of photography do you want to do? What do you want to shoot?

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 11:36

      I can't answer this one because it's for someone else, and it's a bit of a surprise I think so there's a bit of vagueness around it. If I had to guess I would say the person is going want it to take family photos, either portraits or in the park/action shots, and then also take some landscapes and flora/fauna. Come to think of it I'm probably spot on with my guess :-)

      • macrocephalic on 14/12/2021 - 12:52

        So they need something that can do action, tele, macro, and portrait? That's a hard ask in terms of lenses.

        • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 13:14

          Yeah, I'll probably talk to someone tonight about what they're likely to do, if not the person themselves :-) but if I had to pick their profile, I'd say that's what they were doing. Aside from the above it's unlikely they are going to be youtubing or extensively using video, and it might become a travel camera at some point, and something to use while doing a short course maybe as a recreational thing.

          Macro might not be too important since the persons phone actually has a great macro mode (I have the same phone and I use it all the time to take pics of serial numbers etc.) maybe also their phone is good enough for portraits. So you could say tele and action might be the better use case?

        • Jackson on 15/12/2021 - 14:25

          Hey @macrocephalic, I spoke to the recipient and they are fine with the GX880 MFT camera, but they confirmed they mainly want to do nature and macro shots. The kit lens is a 12-42mm, and there is a macro lens available but it's $450 or so. Would that be necessary or can you get by doing macro shots with the kit lens?

  • Snake 4 on 14/12/2021 - 11:50
    +1

    Does any brand tend to have cheaper lenses

    Cheap lenses are cheap for a reason.

    • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:17

      Yeah, I figured this much. I know some people have had some success with buying adapters and using older second hand lenses with the newer cameras, but I haven't ever heard of a reliable way to hack your way to good lenses. I was probably more wanting to know if one particular brand/system was cost prohibitive just because the manufacturer liked price up their lenses above the average, i.e. it would be a waste of time looking at micro4/3 if the lenses were all going to cost twice as much

      • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 12:22
        +1

        In the early days of Sony dslr you could use Minolta film lenses. You could pick up some amazing glass (1.4 primes, constant 2.8 zooms) super cheap as nobody wanted them initially. People soon caught on and the prices went bonkers (that's when I sold and went to G and Zeiss glass)

        • Jackson on 14/12/2021 - 12:34

          What's G? I presume Zeiss are all Sony lenses mainly or do they do every system when it comes to intergchangables.

          When I bought my a3000 back in the day I looked into getting Minolta lenses online, but as a novice I didn't know what I was doing and I was younger and more strapped for cash back then, I ended up getting nothing. I currently only have the kit lens that came with my a3000 (although people later said it was better than the lens with the a3500 so I guess it's half decent)

          • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 12:54
            +1

            @Jackson: G is the premium Sony lenses (like L is for canon)

            Zeiss is a lens built by Sony using Zeiss lens technologies. They are a step up from base model lenses.

          • macrocephalic on 14/12/2021 - 12:56
            +1

            @Jackson: G is Sony's professional grade lenses, like Canon's L lenses. Zeiss only do Sony lenses.

            If you want manual lenses then there are millions of mediocre ones - and adapting them to mirrorless bodies is easy. They are normally more trouble then they're worth though.

            • MS Paint on 14/12/2021 - 13:05
              +1

              @macrocephalic:

              Zeiss only do Sony lenses.

              That is incorrect. They do canon, Fuji, Nikon and sony mount. The Sony Zeiss gear is manufactured by Sony with an agreement to use some Zeiss technologies.

  • Rob-4x4 on 15/12/2021 - 08:08

    Lots of nice mirrorless bodies on the market from Nikon and Cannon …Also can be used with existing glass using an adapter …

    • Jackson on 15/12/2021 - 08:15

      By market you mean second hand? New it has been very dry

  • saltypete on 15/12/2021 - 11:11

    One thought, if the person receiving this is looking as travelling one of the smaller format mirrorless are compact and give great quality shots.
    I bought a Canon M a couple of years ago and found it to be a great compromise between size and quality for travel. My only neg on it was lack of waterproof lenses, but it’s small enough to generally shove under a rain jacket.
    There are lots of good brands around this size with a good range of lenses, and the prices on the lenses are not unreasonable.

    • Jackson on 15/12/2021 - 12:28
      +1

      Yes I think I have settled on the Lumix GX880 MFT which is on clearance at few places and addition lenses can be had around the 220 to 250 mark. I spoke to the person it's for they said they picked it over the 1500d so it's a win and with the leftover cash they can pick up an additional lens if they want

  • payless69 on 16/12/2021 - 19:40

    Stand alone cameras are perfect light and colour to number converters. Ideal if you have the time to post process.
    Flagship phones have little glass and are light constrained. But they have sort of become the norm of freezing memories and the masses adobt to like their creations. Their built in post processing can no longer be ignored. Serious emmotions are now created by phones. So stand alone cameras are for extra large print or in harsh light conditions.
    Life is too short to do everything yourself.
    If you have a commercial reason to use something true to nature, the market is crowded with products and operators.

    Personally I would lean towards Panasonic but if a mobile does the job after the latest firmware I would trade my Samsung S21u for an IP13.

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