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Breville BES920 The Dual Boiler $979 Delivered @ David Jones
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Maglia Nera on 19/11/2021 - 08:21 davidjones.com (2875 clicks)
Last edited 19/11/2021 - 17:24 by 1 other user
Last edited 19/11/2021 - 17:24 by 1 other user
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Is that the only difference? And the express comes with the grinder built in?
read cyrax's comment bel… wait nvm :P
but yeah, the DBD is a far better machine, even if you're only making one coffee at a time. it really comes down to bench space and budget - if you have enough of both, the BDB is an absolute no-brainer, it's absurdly good value.
I'm looking for a coffee machine at the moment, good points to keep an eye out for
Thanks for the insight, I was looking at the differences, do you know if there's a difference in the grinder between the express and the barrista pro? or much of a functional difference other than the display and dimensions/tank size.
On a daily basis we'll only really be making 2 coffess at the same time and sometimes without milk.After tweaking for your specific coffee beans. They are totally the same in terms of functionality. However, barista Pro is much easier to adjust without a manual. For express, you will need a manual each time, as it's hard to remember which button to press.
Just read this article - seems the dual boiler also has bigger portafilter (58 vs 54) and 3 hole steam wand, and easier to move around if that's your thing.
https://lifestylelab.ca/barista-express-vs-dual-boiler/Great article, thanks.
This is the reason I rate the sunbeam barista max espresso. It has 58mm portafilter so you can add vst and the built in grinder is sufficient and saves on bench space. I got mine for $300 when it was on sale. The only downside (apart from not being a fast dual boiler) is that I would prefer to support the great Australian design of the Breville machines. Great article btw
Thank you for your comments. Was trying to make a decision on whether to get this or not - our Express is on it's last legs but has served us well. We are mostly making 2 coffees, twice a day and occasionally more if we have guests. Think I will just get another Express. Though it would be good to make the coffees quicker, a smaller unit inclusive of the grinder is preferable. We are not coffee experts by any means so simple is good.
This is dual boiler. The Express is thermoblock. So the water temperature, steam temperature and steam dryness is also better on the Dual Boiler. The biggest one for me is that the Dual Boiler uses 58mm baskets, which means you can access the many aftermarket industry standard baskets and tools out there. The Express is smaller at 53 or 54mm, and you will struggle to even put 18g of grind into the supposedly double basket. The Dual Boiler can easily fit up to 25g in its 2 shot basket.
It's definitely not just that. Dual boilers provide stable temperatures for brewing as compared to heat exchangers and the and BDB can also be modded to allow you adjust flow control which in itself opens a world of possibilities. And to go for the Express would also be a bad decision given the Pro offers a lot more for not a lot of extra cash.
I've had both unit for about 2 years, I find the dual boiler easier to dial in shots and alot more consistent. the express seem to produce watery shots for me.
It will also save you time as you can pull shot and steam at same time. Might only be a minute or two savings, but multiple coffees a day probably gives you a 1000 or 2 minutes back in your year.
In addition to what others have said, the dual boiler has a metal group head (the locking ring the portafilter engages with) and the lesser 54mm models have a plastic group head.
The metal group head is actively headed and more temperature stable, and will last much longer before wearing down.In addition, its better to keep your beans in a grinder seperate to the coffee machine because of the heat and the freedom to return the grinder for repair separately to the coffee machine.
Yes.
I feel you’ve simplified something and skipped over quite a few of the key differences (mentioned above by others). Yes the “extract and steam” thing is probably the weakest link but the Dual Boiler is just a better machine overall. In my mind, by quite a margin and worth the difference.
I had a heat exchanger before. Dual boilers are betterI appreciate the thought but this isn't accurate - It isn't just the difference between quantity and being able to make two coffees at once/faster. The dual boiler is significantly better technically, with features more akin to commercial cafe machine.
The express uses a smaller portafilter basket, uses thermocoil heating instead of a proper boiler(s) with digital control(s), does not have an overpressure value and is not really capable of proper high pressure/dry steam. It also doesn't have the temperature controlled group head.
If you're already invested in coffee enough to spend $$$ on a home espresso machine, those differences can really be worth hundreds of dollars.
I have used both and to me, the BES920 is well worth the few hundred dollars extra.
Why I love the BES920 more…. The basket size (58mm), pressure, timer, responsiveness (especially on the steamer - it only takes a second or so, compared to what…. 30 seconds on the Express).
And obviously, the quality of the coffee - I have never been able to get anything close to the BES920 using the Express.
Here is a very comprehensive comparison of both side by side:
This is by far the best espresso machine Breville make.
The BES920 feature set (in my biased opnion) is the sweet spot, without the sizzle/hype features added on for product market segmentation.
(e.g. Touchscreen models/oracle models/built in grinder models - they add e.g.touchscreen/graphics, sensor for jug temperature/milk temperature, robotic tamping, automatic steam on/off)To me, the key components in this machine are:
1. The dual boiler system, which preheats the brew water by inlet passing through the steam boiler, which prevents thermal shock of the inlet and allows the brew reservoir more thermal stability.
2. The over pressure valve which limits the brew pressure from getting too high, which allows for consistent extraction and flavour in the shot.
3. The preheated group unit which maintains thermal stability at the brew point.
4. The independent steam boiler with a nice manual lever for control and three exit points for steam. The steam is dry and powerful enough to texture milk very well, you can get the milk done while the coffee is extracting, allowing you to blend your drink before the crema dissipates. You can adjust the PID temperature set point as well.
5. The pressure gauge is necessary to let you know if your extraction is what you were hoping for, and whether to adjust.The bonus features are:
+ the huge tank system with the window and filling point at the front.
+ the automatic power on at the time you set so it is up and ready every morning.
+ the automatic reminders to clean and change filters.
+ the shot timer, clear and simple.It is not a La Marzocco Linea Mini, or Rocket R Cinquantotto, which use commercial quality dual boilers integrated into a "compact" footprint, with a water reservoir that can still fit on a benchtop.
But similar to high end machines, it will need routine periodic maintenance, probably every 2 years or so outside of the fitlers and cleaning tablets.The key components are all there to meet their original design brief: to make an appliance that can make coffee equal to what you get in a cafe, repeatedly.
How do you do maintenance on these? Like pay someone from Breville to come in and do it?
The water tank has a built in ion exchange filter. So just keep replacing those, and there are aftermarket options which are cheaper too. If you do maintenance, the only thing is to clean the group head/shower filter with a coffee machine cleaning powder (percarbonate based), and if you live in areas of very hard water like Adelaide, you can removal scale using diluted citric acid too if required. Don't need to descale if you live in metro Sydney or Melbourne. I'm not as familiar with water hardness in other states, but you can look it up on your local water company's website.
Is this kind of thing detailed in the manual? Like where do you learn how often you should be replacing the ion exchange filter or clean the group head?
I'm in the ACT, not sure of the water hardness here but I can look it up. Does the machine tell you when to scale based on the water hardness or is it more of a manual thing to know when to do it?
@JoKing: I'm in the ACT too. Our water is very soft. I discovered this when I was keeping aquariums and tried to adjust the water for some particular fish. You'll also notice we don't get scale around showerheads or a film on the shower tiles.
@JoKing: the unit comes with a litmus strip, and you use that to test the water. you then program the machine to the hardness that the strip said, and it uses a timer to then estimate when you'll need to do the descale and will prompt you on screen when you reach that point.
then you do the automatic descale procedure that the machine prompts you to do, and it fries the boiler and you have to send it off for repair. (according to me two weeks ago, and a whole lot of forum posts I found on google AFTER I'd done mine.)
then you do the automatic descale procedure that the machine prompts you to do, and it fries the boiler and you have to send it off for repair.
That sounds about right.
@salem: Oh wow, the strip is cool!
What do you mean about it frying the boiler? You just did the automatic descaling and it killed your machine?
What did the forum posts say? To not do the automatic descaling?@JoKing: yeah it's something about the descale procedure empties the boilers, but the element in the steam boiler doesn't turn off, and because there's no water in the boiler, the temp overrun sensor (which needs to be submersed in water) doesn't know if it's getting too hot so doesn't turn off the element. they said don't do the descale procedure, and instead advise variations on just adding descale to the reservoir and running it through and then draining it, using normal machine operations, then making sure the machine is off when you drain the boilers.
@JoKing: From what I know…
There is a thermal fuse installed as a collar around the boiler which will melt if the temperature goes above some value.
During descale process you have to drain water from the boiler. If you do it too fast the metal temperature would go up and it will melt the fuse.In the past I've done descale procedure twice and didn't have any issues. But I was draining water very very slowly.
I am not sure if there are any issues with the procedure (possible).
@JoKing: draining the boilers is a physical screw for each one that you unscrew from the front of the machine (behind a rubber panel).. doesn't require any electronic interaction for that aspect (but the 'descale wizard' is normally run with the machine on so it can run the pumps to fill the boilers each cycle)
I purchased my first dual boiler in 2015 and take mine to the Breville repair centre.
Originally for warranty repair, and then I would take it whenever it needed attention.
Last repair was $138 for a triac board replacement.
Prior to that I changed the pump as a project during the first lockdown (repair place was booked out) - cost about $40 from memory and has been going great since then.
Usually a service where they descale and change the boiler seals (o-rings) is around $120 or so and it needs to be done every 2 years or so to prevent the triac problem which happened due to steam escaping and me not doing anything about it.Yeah okay, those prices aren't as high as I thought they would be. I'd love to be able to do my own maintenance but I would be scared to ruin such an expensive machine :p
Another thing holding me back with this is not knowing about the filters and o-rings and descaling processes and how to identify when I need to do them.
@JoKing: you can do your own maintenence. Lot of people do. So many videos on youtube. You wont get so many features even in a prosumer machine.
my triac repair is quoted at closer to $400! where did you get yours done? (mine's in at Prestige appliances, ACT. I'm in the middle of trying to get Breville to cover it before I approve it).
Labour Charge $275.00
Parts Charge $97.69
CALL OUT FEE $20.00
Sub TOTAL $392.69
GST $39.26Not sure why there's a call out fee in there - I took it in myself :/
@salem: That a bit too much.
It looks like you can get Triac board for $40 or so.
Also you will need some confidence, thermal paste, soldering iron and a couple of screwdrivers.
https://outwestcoffee.com.au/index.php/2019/08/19/breville-b…
Clean it after each use, change the water filter as required, run the clean me cycles when prompted, same for descaling. Mine's 3 years old and hasn't missed a beat, 1-2 coffees every day since purchase. I absolutely love mine.
When you say clean it, you just mean wipe down the head, ensure no milk in the wand, etc?
Have you just done the cleaning when the machine has prompted you to do so?
@JoKing: Daily cleaning regime:
- Turn on the steam wand for a second or two and thoroughly wipe the steam wand with a damp cloth to remove any traces of milk
- Do a quick wipe down of the machine
- If you're not making another coffee a short time afterwards, use a blind filter or the cleaning disc/cover included and do a backflush with your portafilter in the grouphead to flush it out (you do a backflush by holding down the 2-cup button for about 12 seconds and then releasing it)
- Wipe down the grouphead shower screen
- Empty out the drip tray as needed
For the deep cleaning cycles, you can generally just follow the prompts the machine gives you. Same goes for descaling, although frequency will vary depending on the hardness of the water in your area. In Perth I was advised by a repairer to do a descale cycle every 6 months.
The Claro-Swiss filters need to be swapped out every 3 months. I usually set a calendar reminder for this because the machine won't prompt you itself.
@skittlebrau: Thanks so much! Really appreciate the response. Ive taken a photo and might set up a bit of a routine for myself.
@JoKing: I've pretty much just repeated what I saw on a Breville video a long while back for the previous BES900 model I used to own. The only thing not mentioned is descaling, but that's pretty easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Yp6zJfmb8You'll find plenty of other videos out there with good suggestions too.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=breville+dual+b…
Depending how handy you are, you can do it yourself. I've replaced pumps, valves, seals, et cetera, on my aging BES900. The parts are common to many European machines and fairly easily obtainable. Otherwise you can pay to have a Breville repair centre to it.
I would say I am pretty handy and not afraid to have a go. But I dont have much knowledge around coffee machines. Do you think that would be a problem?
@JoKing: No, I think that you'd be fine. I didn't have any prior experience with coffee machines before tinkering with mine :)
There are a couple of good videos on Youtube, e.g.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG5i7LxZBbk&list=WL&index=15…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcw8PzG_KsA&t=417sFew good guides here: http://nic.steve-tek.com/?page_id=500
Pump: Ulka EX5 240V
Uprated OPV: Expobar expansion valve E614
O-rings, Standard Silicone: (a) Orange: 007; (b) Blue: 010I have more notes if you're interested!
@gleamnite: Well I just bit the bullet and grabbed one from JB for this price!
So yeah I’d love some more notes! I will message you :) thanks heaps!
Edit: I can’t seem to message you. You could post here I was just trying to save the comment section!
Been using this machine for about 3 years now. Solid as machine!
But the magnet that sucks up the tamper recently stopped being magnetic? Any way I can fix that?
Going to disagree. Has this, the express and I now run an oracle (non touchscreen).
Oracle is hands down the best machine. I got mine refurbished for $700 pre covid and I’d gladly pay $2000 for a new one if it broke.
I have about 5 family members and friends who have gone and bought one after using mine.
The auto tamp is unreal and the auto milk frother works a treat. Can literally make a coffee in 1 minute in the morning.
Nice bargain. The guy that fixed my machine also recommends the Oracle.
The bonus features are:
These are all in the Oracle too. The Oracle is expensive, but on sale (done get a Oracle touch) it is still cheaper than a pro machine and will pump out coffees and keep mess to a minimum. Built-in grinder means you don't have to spring for a $200 SGP or better. Auto tamp is a much better feature than I thought it would be. Also makes it super easy for people that just want a coffee and don't want to become a barista.
Everytime a deal is posted for this machine I get so close to pulling the trigger. I have been eyeing off either this for around $980 mark or the Bambino Plus for $361. I don't have much bench space and only drink 1 or 2 coffees a day so the Bambino makes sense but I am worried it wont last like a BDB would and I would be spending the difference in 2 years time to replace it anyway.
Anyone had this same dilemma and can provide some clarity?
I've been using the automated version of the Dual Boiler, the Oracle for 8 years now. I did have a sticky pump, which I replaced, but it would have kept working even without the pump replacement.
Love my Oracle, will definitely buy another when it dies. If you're going to double (or more) the amount of coffees you produce because you have an automatic machine then it's worth it. I couldn't be bothered making coffees every morning with my BES920, but since I've got the Oracle I have a cup without fail.
Oracle is so cool, you can use it as an enthusiast, or in the case of my wife, use it as a quick and easy/lazy way to make good coffee. You can do it semi-automatically, or manually, depending on your mood. I have a separate grinder on the side for my single origin, whereas the built in grinder contains a consistent blend.
Over the 8 years, I've made at least 4 coffees a day. So that is equivalent to over 11,000 cups of coffee. It has definitely paid for itself!
@Sleepycat3: I hear you on the money saving aspect, assuming you're willing to learn how to pull shots properly and texture milk. I used to buy coffee twice a day and over the course of a year that easily would've amounted to about $2,700 per year.
Good to see coffee machine deals popping up… Waiting for Barista Pro!
In case this goes out of stock, keep an eye on the Bing Lee ebay listing - currently $999 delivered with eBay plus (and the PLBFSS voucher code - some Tuesdays there will be a greater discount. (It got down to $934 on 9 Nov)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/164908238688Bing Lee already out of stock
Been trying to decide between this and the infuser for a while..
There are only 3 Breville coffee machines that I would buy. The Double Boiler, the Oracle and the Oracle Touch. Once I went boiler, I couldn't go back.
whilst I understand there are reasons to buy an Oracle, i'm not convinced i'd recommend one to somebody.
edit: I should clarify - I wouldn't blanket recommend it to everyone.
BES920 is the only breville I'd consider buying, whilst Oracle is more convenient, having the grinder built in is generally not a good idea.
If I was starting out on my home coffee journey again I'd happily buy a Bambino.
Why do you say that? I'm veryyy close to pulling the trigger on this over the Bambino. It seems a lot of people have the BDB for 8 years+.
if you've got the money and the space, the dual boiler is undeniably better and is arguably actually very good value for the features it has at its price point.
More that not everyone has the budget and space to go straight into something like this. People saying things like "I'd only buy this $1000 coffee machine" seems unrealistic. My coffee machine costs ten times as much as that and there are still cheaper machines that I think are adequate starting points (even end points) for a lot of people.
@punkel: whatever floats your boat really, I've got an aeropress and i still regularly use it - but I don't really use it for milk based coffees.
Your comment is basically the main point though, you don't have to spend a shitload to get a result you are satisfied with.
The only part of that I might fault is paying rrp for the aeropress.
Coming up 5yrs with my BES920. Had it serviced and steam ball valve + o-rings replaced under warranty just before the 2yr mark.
Just sent it in for another look over only to find out my steam boiler has cracked through one of the welds. Repairer has suggested I call Breville and make a case that a $1000 machine shouldn't have this major a defect in under 5yrs.
Waiting to hear back from them with an answer otherwise I'll probably just buy this and start again.Has been a solid machine but the hardness of Adelaide water makes it tricky to keep it completely scale-free.
How did you know to service it? Did it start playing up or did you just want to get it serviced before the warranty period was over?
A bit from column A and a bit from column B.
The steam wand was leaking some water when the machine was pre-heating (ball valve), and the initial sound of a shot pouring sounded a bit off and not like it did out of the box. Probably some scale built up in the solenoid.
But yes, I also wanted to try and get it back to as good as possible before the 2yrs ticked over.
Look up stainless steel boiler + chloride + corrosion. may not be Breville's fault. If you had bought a La Marzocco and feed it with hard water you may end up with the same result too.
Completely agree.
But short of installing a RO filtration system, there's not much more I can do than take good care of it as best I can.If the 'Breville Approved Repairer' wants to back me and say that this type of repair is not common and shouldn't be accepted sub 5 years - I'm not going to challenge him.
If I get it over the line maybe the only difference will be that Breville's customer service and warranty is better than La Marzocco's ;-).
It would be nice if this thing could foam the milk like the oracle.
As much as I hate to admit it, the milk quality that these produce is pretty incredible.
I'm really torn with the oracles, they are actually a great concept and produce decently consistent results. They are just really expensive and the integrated grinder does a decent but not amazing job and if it were to fail I reckon you are up for a pretty expensive repair.
We have an oracle and 3 grouphead wega in our office and the quality of the foamed milk on the oracle is so amazin. Silky smooth and fine. And I agree, that grinder cannot compare to the external expensive ones we have. If DB could produce foamed milk and pair it with a basic grinder like the smart grinder and its still a very good combo for latte/cuppocino drinkers.
What's the secret to getting foamy art-style milk pour? I've got a cheapie machine but the milk never turns out like the cafe
Cheapie machines take more effort.
Without sounding dirty. Insert the tip of the wand first to get more air in. Once you’ve got enough (depends on what drink you’re making but I prefer something between a flat white and latte so just a few seconds*) then insert the wand deeper (heh) and angle the jug. Get some speed going. The air you’ve created will get mixed into the rest of the milk.
Stop when the jug gets too hot to touch.Experiment.
*depends on how much steam your machine outputs. On cheaper ones it’s slow. But that can work in your favour on occasion so you can take your time
Cheaper machines can't really produce high pressure dry steam like machines can when they have a boiler and proper temperature control. The BES920 in OP is basically as good as a cafe commercial machine goes as far as milk is concerned.
Technically the steam pressure on BES920 lower than on commercial machines.
But it is good enough to produce the same result.
It will take a bit longer compared to commercial machines.
But we all learnt this year that this is "not a race". :)@sovereign01: Yes! Steam pressure on BES920 is better than a lot of other machines can produce.
If you put some effort into learning how to use it properly (and use fresh beans) you will be able to make coffee better than majority of coffee shops around you.
Use fresh, quality full cream milk. Colder the better for steaming. Or if you're practising, use a single small drop of dishwadhing detergent in a pitcher of water; it behaves similarly to milk.
Make sure you're steaming in a proper milk steaming pitcher. Don't fill above the bottom of the start of the spout.
With the steam off, insert steam wand so that it slides up right against spout, steam tip sitting just below surface of milk. With the spout still touching the steam wand, tilt the jug so the steam wand points to the middle of the pitcher. Then tilt it about half way to the side. The idea here is when you turn on the steam, you're creating a controlled vortex that churns the milk. If it overflows, tilt back a bit to the centre of the pitcher. Get this position right and don't tilt again. Not once. Just hold it, moving only up and down to introduce/remove air.
There's two stages to steaming: aerate , blend.
The duration of the first stage depends on steam pressure and dryness. But basically, the tip of wand dips in just below surface of milk to create that unobtrusive hiss of air. Not too low that it sounds horrendous like a banshee and creates big bubbles, not too high that the sound skips, on and off. Do that until about body temperature (38), or your ideal volume is approximately reached. Then just raise jug until the hiss goes, and keep it at that relative depth until you've hit 60-65 degrees. Longer will spoil the milk.
Well foamed milk should look like wet paint. Glossy, no obvious bubbles, but with a cohesive viscosity.
I think the BES920, Barista Express, Pro, Bambino/+ (have used/owned them in the past) all have merit depending on what the end user wants to spend time and money on. Breville really has good value/featured machines at the low/mid end price point. If I had to say which machine was best bang for buck, value allrounder for the average Joe. I think the Barista Express would be the one for $600.In saying that, one of the benefits of the BES920 needing a separate grinder (SGP is a decent start) After some time you may find upgrading the grinder to be more beneficial for the BES920 (as I have) If you owned the Barista Express/Pro you would have to upgrade the whole machine as the grinder is built in.
I did it. I price matched to JB and just went and grabbed it with some discounted gift cards. It is niiiiccceeee on the bench next to the smart grinder. I have seen mentions of good YouTubers to watch to start learning but I can't see any at the moment - anyone recommend someone good on YT to learn how to use/dial in/maintain the BDB?
Wouldn't say it's specific to setting this machine up, but this is one that uses the BDB (I believe). This guy is a good person to follow if you haven't already.
https://youtu.be/1eK0eidOA_UOtherwise tell me if you find something, I just ordered one :-)
was it easy to price match?
Just called the online sales and they sent me a custom cart.
what's the number? I couldn't see any number on their website.
Do you already have a grinder?
Yeah. I got the breville smart grinder a few weeks ago. Wasn’t going to upgrade the coffee machine just yet but whoops
Just got email from Bing Lee about my BES920 order was not fulfilled because out of stock. They claimed this was due to some display error on eBay that showing out of stock product available…
Well, guess what, I then ordered one from David Jones and hopefully there won't be some mysterious display error…
I just received email from David Jones that they were unable to fulfil the order.
I suspect they might be only selling the dual boilers with the grinder bundle (dynamic duo).
Try price matching at JB Hifi.. Worked for me over the weekend.
Just did today… JB Hifi matched it.
Back to $1999 :(
… and back to $979 again!
Mission accomplished, another happy owner.
The original plan was to get to JB HiFi when they open on 24 Nov, get a price-matched quote, confirm whether TCN cards can be used, run to the Coles next door to get discounted cards (15% off for a week starting from today) and pay with those. Everything was going well until I found out that by 8:05 all those cards were sold out, and not only in that store but in nearby ones as well. Ended up using Perkbox's 5% discount to get JB HiFi gift card online and pay for a price-matched Dual Boiler ($979) and Smart Grinder ($239).
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I've seen quite a bit of discussion about getting this over the Express due to its ability to steam and pump espresso simultaneously.
If you are just making one coffee at a time, it makes sense to get the Express due to the cheaper price and the smaller sized unit. If you are wanting to make multiple coffees all at the same time, the Dual Boiler is likely a better option.
The Dual Boiler model seems to get over hyped for first timers who only need it for single use. It is considerably bigger on a bench top. If you are using either of these machines properly, you will pull shots lasting 30seconds or less. Milk also takes 30seconds. Is the difference really worth hundreds of dollars?