Voluntary School Contribution - Policy Update

browser on 15/11/2021 - 17:37

Finally the department has updated the wordings to make it clear that public school contribution is voluntary.

https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/pd-2005…

For years we were confused if school contribution is optional. Other fees are very clear, such as P&C donation (clearly optional), library fund (under gifts section, so again optional), subject contribution (fair enough if you study something that requires extra support materials).

But "school contribution" sounds very vague. If we are voluntarily contributing, then it is just that, shouldn't make it look like paying a bill.

Education & Work

Comments

  • mskeggs on 15/11/2021 - 18:06
    +17

    You were unsure if the voluntary contribution was compulsory ?

    Nevertheless, I’d urge you to pay it.

  • battler on 15/11/2021 - 18:06
    +14

    Always knew they were voluntary, but I paid it it without hesitation.
    A small amout to pay for what may become a useful addition to the kid's school experience - given it goes to the school and not the Dept of Ed.

    • Averell on 22/11/2021 - 22:30

      In primary schools, as I remember, the amount is about $100 - $200 per year, however in high schools they are asking $2000+ per year. They also give discount for families paying on-time. It's weird.

  • geek001 on 15/11/2021 - 18:32
    +10

    In QLD, it is also voluntary, I believe. I pay it without hesitation, it helps the kids get a better education, not just mine. If I have my way, I think teachers should be paid much much more, afterall you are entrusting this person to look after your most precious thing in the world for most of the week.

    • CheapskateQueen on 15/11/2021 - 21:33
      +4

      not sure about QLD, but in NSW teachers pay has been completely revamped and I feel the automatic pay increases are quite good, getting to 105k after 6yrs years and then 115k around year 7 (something like that anyway). I don't get the whole "teachers don't get paid enough" anymore?

      how much more do we think they should get paid?

      • Mechz on 15/11/2021 - 22:39
        +2

        They get burned out and leave before 6 years. Plus, for a high stress job, it's not that much more than the average wage.

        • RMBC on 16/11/2021 - 08:14
          -7

          Given the quantum of holidays they get, it's a phenomenal remuneration package

          • Mechz on 16/11/2021 - 13:09
            +2

            @RMBC: Except you forget all the 'days off' where they have to prepare lessons and mark exams late into the night. I'd say it's a fair trade. Maybe meet some teachers and make friends to see what they truly go through.

            • RMBC on 19/11/2021 - 07:43

              @Mechz: You mean like the same requirements of other jobs?

              They're not hard done by just have a mouthy union. My best mate is a teacher at a private school, hours are normal corporate hours most of the time, plus extended holidays. I don't feel bad for them

              • Mechz on 19/11/2021 - 12:21

                @RMBC: Mate, chat to someone in the public system.

  • barge-in hunter on 15/11/2021 - 18:36
    +7

    "I care that my child/children go to a great public school"

    …

    Doesn't pay voluntary contribution, which is used to pay for better facilities and services

    Not pointing fingers at OP - but this is an unfortunately common rhetoric

  • Ocker on 15/11/2021 - 18:39
    -6

    Alternative point of view is that as long as parents keep paying these "voluntary" contributions then you are letting the government off the hook for not funding the schools to the required level.

    • pharkurnell on 15/11/2021 - 18:48
      +1

      Thats going to change when parents stop paying?? Did the tooth fairy tell you this?

  • John Kimble on 15/11/2021 - 19:14
    -2

    Yeah, but I'm sure schools will still chase you like a bounty hunter if you don't pay…kid(s) would likely also be ostracised.

    • Daabido on 15/11/2021 - 19:35
      +4

      That's incorrect.

      • John Kimble on 15/11/2021 - 19:50
        -1

        Well, I've certainly been chased, eventually gave in. Have no proof of being ostracised though.

    • bobbified on 15/11/2021 - 20:04
      +3

      I remember my school used to constantly send out reminder letters too!

      • John Kimble on 15/11/2021 - 20:19
        +5

        They told us if we wouldn't/couldn't pay we had to visit the principal to explain why! I felt like I was in trouble in high school again.

        • bobbified on 15/11/2021 - 20:24
          +5

          Yep.. pretty much the same at my school. They tried to embarass people into paying! lol

  • GrueHunter on 15/11/2021 - 19:48

    If only it was called a voluntary school contribution instead of a voluntary school contribu…hang on

  • browser on 15/11/2021 - 19:51
    +1

    If the general consensus is that it is “mandatory” then why not just call it “education support” fees? Much like technology levy. Then there’s no confusion and everybody pays it, achieving a greater outcome. People who cannot afford simply not pay, like any other fees they are no paying.

    If the idea is “voluntary”, then it should not be forced upon or have any expectation to receive such payments, or come up as a set amount in the statement.

    • Euphemistic on 27/02/2022 - 10:48

      It’s voluntary because you can’t force people to pay it. If you can afford, you should pay. If you can’t afford it, then don’t pay. Fairly simple.

  • GourmetFoodie on 15/11/2021 - 21:53
    +6

    Yes it’s not mandatory but public schools sadly do rely on these fees. If you don’t pay they have to cut back on things eg. Sporting supplies that need upgrading can’t be, no new science room equipment etc.

  • JimmyF on 15/11/2021 - 22:18
    +6

    If we are voluntarily contributing, then it is just that, shouldn't make it look like paying a bill.

    While the 'law' says they have to call it voluntarily, that is just so the feds can say we have 'free' education. The harsh fact is the schools need these payments to delivery a great education to YOUR child, there isn't really anything 'voluntary' about them. So please never think they are 'voluntarily', as they are simple nothing of the sorts from the schools side.

    Sure you don't have to pay them as they are 'voluntary' but at the end of the day, if enough parents don't pay them, then your child will suffer as the school has to cut back to balance the budget.

    • browser on 15/11/2021 - 22:43

      The thing is not everyone understand it is a critical contribution, could be interpreted as a nice to have contribution, at the end of the day more funding is always better and never enough.

      By using the word "voluntary", families who can afford it may chose not to give it to the school but use it on other educational expenses.

      If they just call it what it is: school levy, then everybody who can afford pays, isn't that better?

      • JimmyF on 15/11/2021 - 22:48

        By using the word "voluntary"
        If they just call it what it is: school levy, then everybody who can afford pays, isn't that better?

        As above, its so our good friends the 'feds' can claim we have 'free' education……. Hence why it must be called voluntary, not a levy or just 'school fees'.

        Pay them, your child is worth the public school fees.

        • browser on 15/11/2021 - 23:27

          Your argument is not entirely true. School is never free, there are always fees: subject fees, technology fees, sports fees.

          If those are acceptable fees, surely they can think of a name to justify school contribution, or just spread it across other fees.

          • JimmyF on 16/11/2021 - 09:39

            @browser:

            Your argument is not entirely true. School is never free, there are always fees: subject fees, technology fees, sports fees.

            The school my kids attend can be purely 'free of fees' if you don't want to pay the fees they ask, but your kids miss out on some of the events covered by those fees and you have to supply your own books/stationery etc rather than used the supplied ones.

            If those are acceptable fees, surely they can think of a name to justify school contribution, or just spread it across other fees.

            Your issue isn't the school, it is the fed gov allowed wording. Ever wondered why all the schools use the same wording? Its because they have to.

            Regardless I'm not sure of your point anymore, pay the fees or don't pay them. The choice is yours they are purely voluntary if its a public school, but don't complain when your child misses out.

            • browser on 16/11/2021 - 10:01
              -1

              @JimmyF: The point is to have clarity.

              Your argument is going in circles: public school is free, contribution is voluntary, but you miss out if don't contribute.

              So, it's not free if you don't get the full benefit of public education. If you want the full benefit than you must contribute, then is it still voluntary?

              I'm not talking about stationery, excursion, camp, or extracurriculum activities. Everyone of them has a specific fee. The problem is a wishy washy line item that appears to be optional but many people pays (knowingly or unknowingly).

              • JimmyF on 16/11/2021 - 12:50

                @browser:

                So, it's not free if you don't get the full benefit of public education.

                Your child still gets a 'free' education even if you don't pay the voluntary amounts. No one said you get the 'full benefit' education for free. You just get a free education.

                The voluntary amounts go towards learnings ABOVE the minimum standards of learning that is 'free'. If you don't wish to pay them, then your child still gets the bare minimum the school has to offer like every other kid gets.

                The problem is a wishy washy line item that appears to be optional but many people pays (knowingly or unknowingly).

                Pay them or don't pay them, the choice is yours.

                My school has no wishy washer bits, it has a full 2 page breakdown of what ~$200-300/child (depending on the year level) "Curriculum Contributions and Other Contributions" fees go towards and I'm totally AOK with the breakdown. For example I'm happy to pay $15 a year to have a dedicated First Aid Officer onsite at the school 5 days a week to patch up my kid if needed.

                You seem to think that its voluntary so you shouldn't have to do it at all and that is totally ok, so don't do it. But also don't complain when your kid(s) are sidelined for a event above the minimum standard offering that would be covered as part of the 'voluntary' payment, as its a two way street. If you don't want to pay the voluntary payment, then you are saying to the school you don't want yours kids to do the 'voluntary' activities the school offers.

                • Leo Getz on 17/11/2021 - 23:24
                  +1

                  @JimmyF:

                  Your child still gets a 'free' education even if you don't pay the voluntary amounts. No one said you get the 'full benefit' education for free. You just get a free education. The voluntary amounts go towards learnings ABOVE the minimum standards of learning that is 'free'. If you don't wish to pay them, then your child still gets the bare minimum the school has to offer like every other kid gets.

                  Where is that documented in the policies and procedures of any Education Department in Australia?
                  Find me any Education Minister that has stated that as fact.
                  So education is 'pay to win' or rather 'pay to be educated above minimum standards'?

                  Schools are scarily badly run businesses of the State Governments.
                  I don't doubt that they need more money, but that is because of the gross financial mismanagement.
                  So much money is put into programs that are promoted as supporting our children, but really don't.
                  And the ones that do need help are left to flounder, slip under the radar or just get nothing.

                  Schools are offloading more 'fees and charges' to parents, and putting their hand out to the P&C for funding what should be core business items.
                  Your $15/year first aid officer should not be required as staff are expected to have first aid certificates and there are WHS policies requiring that.

                  • JimmyF on 18/11/2021 - 14:14

                    @Leo Getz:

                    Where is that documented in the policies and procedures of any Education Department in Australia?

                    Guessing you don't have kids as its clearly listed on the form.

                    Schools are offloading more 'fees and charges' to parents, and putting their hand out to the P&C for funding what should be core business items.

                    Our kids school is $200-300/yr per child depending on the grade level, so isn't really 'offloading' the costs to parents like you claim.

                    Your $15/year first aid officer should not be required as staff are expected to have first aid certificates and there are WHS policies requiring that.

                    Depends, if you have enough kids at the school a first aid officer makes sense. Put it this way, would I rather pay $15/y for a first aid officer to patch up the kids, deal with the headaches, sickness etc as needed, compared to having my kids teacher be dragged away for an hour to deal with a sick kid in their classroom. All while my kid gets no learning while this is happening…. Hmmm not really a tough choice to me.

                    • Leo Getz on 22/11/2021 - 01:00

                      @JimmyF:

                      Guessing you don't have kids as its clearly listed on the form.

                      Yep, got 4.
                      Wife and I work in education in vastly different roles. We do pay school fees, never seen nor heard any mention of 2-tiers of education based on paying school fees.
                      What form?
                      Link or pic?

                      Our kids school is $200-300/yr per child depending on the grade level, so isn't really 'offloading' the costs to parents like you claim.

                      Do they break it down for individual items you pay for?
                      Is textbook hire in there? How much? Did your child get a physical textbook?

                      Depends, if you have enough kids at the school a first aid officer makes sense…..

                      I don't doubt it does and your school is probably better for it.
                      Doesn't happen in all schools though. Is yours public or private?
                      Here, schools (very few) may have a part-time health nurse provided by Qld Health, not fulltime, not paid for by the school nor parents (in)directly.
                      Sick or injured kids are initially dealt with by teachers and sent to the office to be dealt with by admin staff.
                      If you think your child's teacher just leaves the classroom for an hour you grossly misunderstand how schools are run, or need to find a new school.

                      • JimmyF on 23/11/2021 - 10:20

                        @Leo Getz:

                        What form?

                        Not sure about QLD, but in VIC they send out a letter each year saying please pay $$$$, and this year has a full breakdown. For the $300 owing next year, the highest single item is $45 on the breakdown, with most being $20 or under. So it is detailed enough to know how the money is spent.

                        Do they break it down for individual items you pay for?

                        Yes they do, hence the example above for the first aid being $15/yr.

                        Is textbook hire in there? How much? Did your child get a physical textbook?

                        Primary school kids, so no real 'textbooks' as such yet, but the closest to this would be the general one for English being

                        English – Book boxes, take home readers/books for Literacy Circles ($15)

                        and things like Year xyz Online Subscriptions $45, it breaks down the 8 products included as part of this. This is also the largest single costed item too.

                        I don't doubt it does and your school is probably better for it.
                        Doesn't happen in all schools though. Is yours public or private?

                        Public school, and yes there are enough kids in book to have one. Plus at $15/yr its not really breaking the bank. You gotta be pretty sad person to think paying $15/yr for your kid to have someone like that onsite isn't worth it.

                        Sick or injured kids are initially dealt with by teachers and sent to the office to be dealt with by admin staff.
                        If you think your child's teacher just leaves the classroom for an hour you grossly misunderstand how schools are run, or need to find a new school.

                        So you either employ more office staff to handle the sick kids or employ a first aid officer to deal with them as our school has done? Outcome is the same.

                        The teacher dealing with it all, was a direct response to someone else saying that the class teacher is a first aid officer and would deal with the 'sick kid', no need for a first aid officer (or handing off to office staff). If they did this, an hour for dealing with a sick kid waiting for parents to arrive etc, isn't unreasonable. We are talking primary school kids, it seems like you are more in secondary school, so yes the kids are more able to take themselves to the office etc as needed. Little kids not so much.

                        • Leo Getz on 23/11/2021 - 23:55

                          @JimmyF: States do it differently and schools do it differently.
                          As long as you child gets an education, that's the best outcome.
                          What you see as a parent with one school is not representative for all schools in your state let alone in Oz.

                          My initial response was in reference to you inferring there are 2 levels of education based on paying school fees.
                          That's just not true at all.
                          Regardless of fees paid or not, a student is entitled to the same education outcomes as any other student.
                          Schools can and do waive fees due to financial hardship and there will be a number of 'bad debts' written off.

                          it seems like you are more in secondary school

                          Let's just say I work in both, primary and secondary.

  • browser on 15/11/2021 - 22:51

    So the policy update has made things worse.

    Families who willingly contribute all along will continue to contribute.

    Families who never contribute will continue to ignore.

    But now, families who were in doubt but only paying because they thought it's compulsory may stop paying.

  • mskeggs on 15/11/2021 - 22:51
    +1

    Have you considered raising your concerns at the P&C?
    There are lots of opportunities there to improve the school for your kids, and it is good to get to know the principal and staff.

    • browser on 15/11/2021 - 23:04
      +2

      Not a big fan of the P&C to be honest. Sometimes I feel there's more emails about P&C meeting agenda and minutes, and call for volunteers to help out for all sorts of activities, than actual academic updates.

      • mskeggs on 15/11/2021 - 23:11
        +3

        So don’t want to pay and don’t want to volunteer.

        • browser on 15/11/2021 - 23:15

          Was there ever a condition to do either?

          We have no problem to do both, just spell it out: you must pay and/or help out at P&C.

          But it's not right to call it "volunteering" with an expectation.

          Some parents like to get involved for personal satisfaction, to find somewhere to lead, somewhere to be heard, but not everybody enjoys doing that.

          • mskeggs on 16/11/2021 - 10:42
            +3

            @browser: I guess I approach this with a different attitude. When we were considering schools for our first kid the private schools had great facilities, but cultural drawbacks for us.
            The public schools had OK facilities, and OK opportunities for extra curricular stuff compared to private, but $25k cheaper.

            Because we want the best for our kids we figured we could do more to improve facilities at public school than change the culture at private (as the culture is something many buyers desire).
            So I don’t begrudge paying voluntary contributions, fund raising, volunteering and organising.

            The P&C at public schools are regularly the ones who get things done (with the massive contributions of staff) and if your kids are in dance festivals, plays, music recitals and optional school trips, there is a very high chance these are not happening because you pay your taxes, but because the staff and P&C do it for their kids, and yours.

            The school where my partner was P&C president has new play equipment, sculptures, healthy canteen food, uniform pool and a range of other things thanks to the P&C volunteers. The school where I am on the P&C has murals and academic awards and school lockers and a healthy bush recreation area because of volunteers. In both there are sausage sizzles and cake stalls and music festivals and grant applications and a range of other things these people are doing for your kids. They sit on staff interview panels, they agitate the government when a street crossing is needed, they turn up when something needs doing.

            So I’d urge you not to think of it as ‘what is compulsory for me to do’ but more open ended and say ‘what can I do to make the school and community better.’

            • JimmyF on 16/11/2021 - 12:54
              +1

              @mskeggs:

              So I’d urge you not to think of it as ‘what is compulsory for me to do’ but more open ended and say ‘what can I do to make the school and community better.’

              100% this…. At the end of the day it is your kids going to the school that get the benefit of this. So why wouldn't you want do something to help them.

              If you don't want to put in time etc, then pay the fees and buy a snag or two from time to time. Its the least you can do.

            • furyou on 25/02/2022 - 17:08

              @mskeggs: I think P&C sausage sizzles are stupid. They get 100+ parents to each give up 2-6 hours of their weekend time, to sell $2.5 bunnings snags, which nets them $2000.

              With the 20+ hours of planning, each parent could just have donated $20 and saved hours of time and got a better result.

              All without making parents feel guilty for not giving up their weekend family time.

              • mskeggs on 25/02/2022 - 18:36

                @furyou: It would be a rare Bunnings that delivered $2000, more like $600 or $700.
                And the P&C running it would be doing well if they had 10 or 12 parents taking a turn.

                The reality is it is unusual for 100+ parents to pitch in $20 each. And if they did, good, run the BBQ too.

                And many parents can’t easily afford a few hours pay as a donation, but can spend a couple of hours chatting and cooking sausages.

                If you don’t want to help, by all means donate what you would earn working for that time, nobody will make you feel guilty for making a financial contribution, it is important. But don’t figure because you think they are dumb there is no point participating and no point donating.

                • furyou on 25/02/2022 - 21:12

                  @mskeggs: They said 2 days, I can't remember but I think it's like 8-4? They rostered 5-6 at a time at the stall. So 100 wo/man-hours. All that for only 600-700 is a lot of work for the P&C to do. $6/hr is under the award rate. Must be a better way?
                  Oh they do their best to make you feel guilty you can't even spare 'just an hour or two'

        • JimmyF on 16/11/2021 - 09:39

          So don’t want to pay and don’t want to volunteer.

          Bingo

  • ozhunter on 16/11/2021 - 00:11
    -1

    Don't pay and just complain about how private schools receive unnecessary funding(not directed at you OP)

  • orangetrain on 16/11/2021 - 13:56
    +2

    I want the government to use my bit from tax dollars that goes towards private schools to instead go towards public schools. Which is way more than these contributions I'm sure. Unfortunately, LibLab both want to pleasure their mates at our expense.

  • TrustNoBody on 16/11/2021 - 19:33

    at my sons high school the “voluntary school fees u pay them for 2 years and your child gets the chromebook laptop from year 7 to get them through till yr 12 i think ..

  • OzHunterNSW on 17/11/2021 - 10:40

    Trust an Education Dep to be vague in meaning.

  • furyou on 25/02/2022 - 17:07
    +1

    I see the compulsory Voluntary School Contribution for P&C. What does this go towards? The P&C are volunteers and don't get paid, I mean unless you're charging them to use the school hall for meetings.

    We also have a Subject Contribution for Annual Subject Requirements, which is very vague. Is this the actual compulsory Voluntary School Contribution for the school? And why do we still have to (compulsory Voluntary) buy pens & toilet paper for the school, if they have this compulsory Voluntary payment anyway. It's just confusing.

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