So a few months, I bought a trimmer from them because of their sale and im pretty sure that not only me but other people here have experienced the same as I did. So just this week, I have been receiving fraudulent payment request from my bank to confirm a transaction which I did not authorise. After remembering the incident that occurred with ESR Gear, I knew I was the next victim and so far I lost $2000. So with all this being said, should we ban ESR gear from ozbargain
Proof? Edit: Found it.. That's shocking.
If you are ever going to order from a random website, you should always use the safer Paypal option than entering your raw credit card data…
Jfc - for random bits and pieces there’s amazon or Banggood or similar… why buy from a no name brand especially with little to no prior feedback? At least the bank caught it I guess…
That's a great ad for Kaspersky (and likely KIS specifically)!
I mean, the same thing happened to techfast.
And they haven't been banned.
Banning seems like an overreaction
ye that sounds fair,
Maybe a 6 month ban until it's all sorted?
Yeah, nah.
If that was Shopback, they would just hand out a $3 voucher and get 800+ upvotes…
Thought you could only upvote once per deal?
so far I lost $2000.
Your bank is not covering it?
nope
Why not? I would escalate with your bank, then the ombudsman if necessary.
any tips and recommendations on what I should do
@freebiemaster1902: What do you mean? You just tell your bank you didn't process/authorise these transactions, and you want to dispute them. They do chargebacks on their end, it seems like an open and shut case for them (unless there is something you haven't disclosed), eg if it's card not present fraud due to poor merchant security, they should be able to submit chargebacks and get the money back from the merchant's bank…unless they are also the merchant's bank, which means they have to write it off.
You usually only have a few months from when then fraudulent transactions took place to dispute them.
Either way you should be protected and get your money back. If your bank still won't give it back, you lodge a complaint here http://www.afca.org.au/ and your bank will most likely give in, might just take a bit longer, is all.
See below from CBA https://www.commbank.com.au/support/disputing-a-transaction.…
GL
@John Kimble: " (unless there is something you haven't disclosed)"
This. There's no way that Westpac is going to say "Sorry you got scammed for $2k, not our problem". if you say it was fraudulent they investigate and give you your money back.
(unless there is something you haven't disclosed)
Am guessing OP didn't use a credit card (maybe a debit card linked to savings), given OP is in yr11/12 this year.
@kerfuffle: Not that hard. Plenty of 12 years olds working at fast food joints and grocery/department stores, how is a 17 year old working at marketing, a surprise to you?
@SF3: ah right.
I've had money taken from a debit card in the past from a skimmed taxi driver and even somehow I don't even know, and the bank gave it back and I just had to fill out a form.
This would be more difficult than a CC, but not impossible. I doubt westpac has said "sorry not our problem" like OP said.
@coffeeinmyveins: I had money stolen from Paypal, and paypal told me the transaction was NOT UNAUTHORISED to their defense (total BS) i didn't make that trans, nor did i tell anyone to make it nor i gave my paypal details to someone to make it.
But all major Aussie Banks are good, they will recover the UNAUTHORISED transactions.
Have you contacted your bank at all?
ye they said they can't do much about it, rip
@freebiemaster1902: You should be covered then
Westpac's Fraud Money Back Guarantee
Our Westpac Fraud Money Back Guarantee ensures that customers will be reimbursed for any unauthorised transactions provided that the customer has not contributed to the loss and contacted Westpac promptly. Refer to your card's conditions of use for full details, including when a customer will be liable.
https://www.westpac.com.au/business-banking/credit-cards/man…
@freebiemaster1902: WAS it paid by Mastercard/VISA card?
If So Even in extreme circumstances, say your bank is not doing anything e.g. may be bank out of money VISA/mastercard still cover its users pretty sure.
But In extreme cases, banks do look at your regular spending's and may say its not unauthorised e.g. you always shop at Coles Sydney CBD store, and you decide to dispute one transaction from that place. But nevertheless they shall not outright deny a fraud claim done using a MASTERCARD without doing any investigation.
Westpac is a bit iff I know they didn't give me compensation for my loss to a scammer too (but that was through cardless cash, not MASTERCARD nor internet banking). In that case Westpac did literally tell me Can't help me.
@pharkurnell: No, they won't. When you mention fraud they do not try to get you off the phone. Can you imagine the level of shit they would get into if they did that?
What's probably happened is OP didn't specify "fraud" or anything like that, and based on what they told the bank, they replied accordingly.
Call them back, tell them that this is outright fraud, and watch the wheels turn.
@coffeeinmyveins: IF they cant work out that "I'm missing $2000' as something that needs investigating, then theres no hope.
@pharkurnell: There is one side of the story being presented here and I'm not sure that freebiemaster1902 is representing the sequence of events or the discussion/s accurately.
Receiving, investigating and processing allegations of card fraud is bread'n'butter for issuing banks the world over. Destroying lifetime customer value by "brushing off" an allegation/claim of card fraud (that will, in all likelihood, see liability borne by the merchant) is ridiculous.
I bought this product but through PayPal thank god. No extra charges yet…
Paypal is worse to deal with than a Bank trust me, paypal denied so wrongly to me.
Never use PayPal as a selller. As a buyer it’s normally just an extra level of protection in addition to the banks. You can still do a credit card chargeback against PayPal through your bank if you need.
I lost funds from my paypal balance for a unauthorized purchase (Fraud case). It was clear fraud, how ?
Sudden Change of email (never changed paypal email ever), 2. Bought a Kinguin Digital Skins 50 USD gift card. (I usually do not shop in USD, and definitely not any USD Gift Card, No past transactions with the same merchant Kinguin Digital). Problem was the hacker created Kinguin account under my ID, and put my paypal address as well Based on that Paypal was saying transaction not UNAUTHORISED.
-Hence Clearly, no security was given to me by PayPal for (~$76 AUD paypal balance + ~$4 Bank transaction (Not CARD but bank trans)) Until i reported ING about the partial transaction on ING Orange Everyday being unauthorized, then Paypal admitted it was unauthorized. I would not trust PayPal really honest since then.
Luckily was able to recover my PayPal account immediately (I got notification email saying paypal email changed to XXX), the hacker had not changed the password of my paypal account ( If he had changed password I would have had to go through so much more hassle so many more UNAUTHORISED TRANSACTIONS all through ING Bank).
It was this moment I realized always use your Bank Card everywhere possible, (not bank account nor GC or credit) unless there is no risk or is too much benefit e.g. Discounted eBay GC
It was this moment I realized always use your Bank Card everywhere possible
No way. Then a scammer can empty your account leaving you without money for food or rent. Credit card they're stealing the banks money and you can have the credit account put on hold while they investigate.
Linking PayPal to your primary bank account is also a bad idea. If you need to link to a bank account (to receive funds) then link to a spare account from a fee free bank (Up, 86400, ING, Suncorp) and leave a $0 balance in there.
Sorry to hear your bad luck but some of your conclusions from this experience are just bad ideas.
@stirlo: I think you don't get what I mean to say, If my money was only used from Paypal balance only (aka not bank account or transaction used for that transaction) chances of me clamming my money from UNAUTHORISED activity would have been 0. Problem is PayPal not offering security, or well its more of a them being dodgy and refusing to give it. (totally immoral and unethical with clear evidence).
From Paypal's point of view (Paypal balance, bank card, bank account) transaction are all same for security purposes but they are totally different in reality.
Btw do you know if other banks you mentioned (except ING) have the feature of no overdrawing (aka any transaction above account balance doesn't get charged, hence no way of overdrawing account) ING I know has this feature, and its great for protection. I know combank doesn't offer this feature.
@USER DC: Right, but you treated PayPal like a bank account which it is not. You should never hold a positive balance in your account. You should withdraw it to your bank account (which is free) as soon as it arrives in PayPal.
If using PayPal as an intermediary for your credit card it works very well and in this case has likely prevented my card details being stolen.
I agree PayPal is not a good company (I was scammed $1000 as a seller through them) but as a buyer using them as an intermediary they are a good choice.
Your advice to use a bank card is terrible. It exposes you to more chance of funds being stolen, allows your account to be emptied of your money, and provides less protection than a credit card.
@stirlo: by bank card I mean a VISA/MASTERCARD issued by bank including CC. ofcourse CC offers more protection than DC agree on that 100%.
There’s no excuse for this nonsense. Ban them until they get their shit together. Surprised their merchant hasn’t terminated their facility.
for those whose voting no, I recommend looking at the links people shared above and seeing how many people have been affected and gotten their money stolen
"…their money…."?
Do you understand how card fraud works and the limits to customer liability?
i didnt buy but yes BAN THEM seems so SUS also how they false ad that its waterproof and its not.. thats bad..
agreed
YES!
Let's BAN Amazon, Kogan, Bing Lee, MWave, Catch, Wiggle (et al) for selling products which have had listing errors, too!
/s
Who enters CC details directly into websites these days?
Those who use the same password for all of their online accounts
um about that…
Hey how else should you be paying for online shopping then?
Cash. Due to covid, you do it by mail these days. 100% secure and not covered by post insurance. Who isnt doing it?
I even send a prepaid return letter when I haven’t got exact change
So…. posts credit card info to random websites, and then shocked fraudulent transactions appear on said credit card?
many people were purchasing the item because they had a sale going on and was posted on ozbargain
If it seems too good to be true….
Surprised they are not banned, heck JV gets banned faster.
ShopBack continues to get airtime here, too.
Yep never using Shopback again. Since they leaked my personal details I was getting >5 scam phone calls a week. Thankfully it's died down a little now, but still not happy Jan.
I am not directly impacted by the issue that seems to be affecting some of ESR's customers.
But I think it's worth putting it into perspective. Genuine card fraud, while very inconvenient/annoying for the cardholder, sees liability land with the card issuer (bank) and/or the downstream merchants. As a cardholder impacted by card fraud you simply get a new card and get on with your life.
Short of changing your name, address, contact number (etc) - stolen personal information, via sloppy site security or otherwise, is far more problematic for most people. It's important to remember that correlation ≠ causation, but within a month of the Shopback data leak I received dozens of scam calls, each week, to the number I had registered with Shopback. Perhaps more telling for me, is the ongoing barrage of scam emails which contain a typo I made in my Shopback customer information.
Shopback astroturfed their Google reviews to bury all the genuine customer feedback about the leak and the company is dead to me. The fact that OzBargain continues to give them a platform pisses me off far more than this ESR mob.
@[Deactivated]: Same - no impact of ESR, though they sound sus at best.
100% agree with you re SB and personal info. I was not aware of the scrubbed Google reviews by SB, but one of the things that annoyed me the most is the fact that they required your mobile number to register, and then leaked it. Even if it was accidentally, that is just unacceptable. There is no valid reason why they needed a mobile number in the first place, and it's one of the hardest things to change, and most problematic to deal with if stolen as you say.
@moar bargains: I doubt if it's ESR leaking it, I'd say it's more a case of them having sloppy security that small scale hackers are able to penetrate their security, and those hackers leak stuff. Same case with Shopback.
A business that leaks card sensitive information is not a legit legal business, if ESR was doing that they would be penalized very heavily.
@USER DC: Yeah I give ESR the benefit of the doubt and expect that they are not deliberately leaking CC info, and agree with you that it looks like poorly implemented site security practices. I also expect that it was accidental in the case of SB - they somehow had a security breach that exposed information. My point was that Shopback probably shouldn't have collected phone numbers to be able to be leaked in the first place. That's just poor risk management, for no consumer benefit, and very limited appreciable business benefit.
Sorry OxBargain, but maybe we have exposed what you are all about. I don't click on your so called "offers"… the first and last time I did, I had to change my mobile number bc of all the targeted, fraudulent contacts forever there after.
The site will be rebranded as TigerBargain next year
I've been getting marketing emails from them, wondered how they got my address.
But yes I bought a hair trimmer from an OzBargain post, then gave it away when it arrived…
Interestingly their marketing emails have a 'reply to' address of [email protected]
Pretty sure Zoho Desk would not be pleased
Oh well, into the black hole you go…
That email address just shows that they are either skimping on Zoho Desk by using the free version, or not technically competent enough to get their domain associated with their account.
about $250 loss here, all happened on 5th november
Did you use paypal or input your card details directly?
Can everyone that was affected please contact their card issuer (get their card reissue) and initiate a chargeback for any fraudulent charges?
this explains the fraudulent transactions that occurred to me just yesterday on my Visa. I purchased from ESR recently.
Explains it thanks
ye me too, I hope you are able to get your money back
Dear moderators, How many yes do you need to ban ESR from ozbargain as many people here claimed they have been affected by them thanks
Mods don't sit here and read every comment posted.
I also got scammed by ESR. My situation was different. I didn't get scammed straight away. I had a problem with the clipper (the switch came loose), so I contacted their support 2 weeks ago, they then said they would process a refund. On the 4th November (after their "supposedly" fix on their website as per the claim by ESR store rep), ESR processed the refund, and on the same day I had 6 unauthorised transactions on my bank account. Fortunately, today I got those charges back from the bank after jumping up and down to my bank, and following up constantly. Before any curious smarty pants here ask, yes, I bought it using a debit card (yes, I am old school, judge me all you want). It was a brand new bank account/debit card, and the first (and only purchase) was made at ESR. Is it still a coincidence?
I believe, ESR is definitely involved in this scam! How do I know? Its because they (or their payment processing partner) took the money out of my account on the same day they processed the refund. There is nothing coincidental about it. I dont believe they have patched any security on their website, and instead they're still holding onto people's card information!
I had to prove to the bank that those fraud transactions were not authorised by me and that was a tedious process!
ye , I would agree as well, I think ESR hasn't even fixed their mess they created and is still doing something we don't know!
In my case, ESR(or their payment partners) were like - hey, we forgot to scam this guy, so let's pretend to do a refund to him and then take some money out of his account, after all we still have his card details. That's what's happened.
OP, I hope you get your money back soon. You may have to speak to multiple people about it and fill out some paperwork to prove you didn't authorise those charges. Its not as "bread'n'butter" as someone has said above. Some people may find the whole charge back process daunting, but I believe you'll get the charges back.
I personally think that a temporary ban on ESR is the ONLY solution, but mods here seem to think otherwise. Although, Mods were quick to send me a "personal attack" warning when I lost my sh!t with ESR (which was my natural reaction to the scammers).
As someone said above, there's no excuse for this nonsense. And I think scammers don't deserve any respect either.
As per the Mod post above, once someone has stolen card numbers they can lie around for ages before they actually get used. So it's quite feasible that they were stolen from the ESR site, and then stored elsewhere. In that case, it doesn't matter what ESR does to their website, the criminals already have your card details and can use them when they want.
In terms of taking the money out the same day there was a refund: because it was a debit card they may have been trying the account on repeat until there was money available, when it finally succeeded.
I agree with you that companies that burn customers like that deserve what they get, but I'm just pointing out that it isn't necessarily an ongoing fault of ESR.
"because it was a debit card they may have been trying the account on repeat until there was money available, when it finally succeeded"
"I'm just pointing out that it isn't necessarily an ongoing fault of ESR"
Yes, I may be sounding very direct (and/or emotional here) here but I was genuinely affected by this scam and was taken a back by it (I had payments scheduled for vendors and other billers and I was out of pocket for almost $5K for some days - I was inconvenienced by this whole charge back process), of course I've changed my card and received the chargeback etc, but the whole ordeal was an eye opener.
Fair enough. Sorry to hear of your experience of getting scammed and the struggles to get your money back.
In any case, it doesn't sound like ESR is a good place to shop!
ESR Gear were already banned following the security issue in their August Hair Clipper deal due to an insecure website where users had their credit card details compromised.
In September the rep claimed that the issues were resolved here and the website was subsequently unbanned.
Unfortunately this does not mean that users who already purchased in August won't continue to have their credit cards accessed. Compromised credit cards may take months before they are used. If you purchased the hair clipper deal in August on credit card (not PayPal), you may consider whether it's in your best interests to cancel the card proactively or at the very least continually monitor the card for unauthorised activity, depending how comfortable you feel.
We have added warning messages in new deal posts since September about ordering at your own risk and recommending to pay with PayPal. While we aren't aware of any compromised cards for users who purchased in September onwards, we cannot vouch for the website and will continue to monitor the situation.
Please reach out to other members who are knowledgeable in the banking area, if you need assistance in dealing with issues with your bank/credit card, as some have done already.
Sorry but there is little point having a poll for this type of thing, without all the relevant information at hand. If you want to discuss further, feel free to contact us as always in Talk with a Moderator Forum.