Hi all,
So I recently graduated from law school and am now a fully-fledged solicitor. My favourite unit so far has been consumer law. I'm a sucker for anything to do with your rights as a consumer.
I was surprised by the lack of knowledge on consumer rights in my own law firm so I was thinking about creating a tiktok channel to teach, inform and advocate consumer rights in my free time.
Before I do, it would be nice to know how much you OzBargainers know about your rights as a consumer.
I was surprised by the lack of knowledge on consumer rights in my own law firm
Got some examples, as otherwise how do we know if we know about knowing what we know about our consumer rights :)
Why bother to understand them?
Just tell your unfortunate consumer story on the ozbargain forums and the community brains trust will give you direction.
So in your professional opinion, is the customer always right?
No. But a customer shouldn't be bullied by big corps who understand the law a lot better.
What are the billable hours for a consumer rights lawyer?
The degree must have cost a fortune. It would be better to use it in an industry that is flush with billable hours. The base salary in this industry is 6 figures with no ceiling.
I also did law at University and enjoyed anything that was really applicable to day to day life.
I think the biggest loss for consumers was when the liberals canned The Checkout which really helped give a voice to consumers by providing knowledge and even publicly putting companies in the spotlight.
Unfortunately the ACCC is still very much a toothless tiger although we do have some good ombudsmen/mediators for certain industries.
ACCC kinda just steps in when there are numerous complaints. Its still a good name to throw at the rep though lol. They tend to tread carefully afterwards.
Ombudsmen and state focus organisations such as NSW Fair Trade are good.
Who cares about laws and rights in OzB! It’s always pitch fork time when confirmation bias is violated! /s
I was surprised by the lack of knowledge on consumer rights in my own law firm
Most probably because there isn’t much money to be made in that area.
There isn't at all. Unless you get injured from a faulty product, consumer law is like pennies works.
Everything about consumer law is very easy to understand with the exception of the term "reasonable consumer".
Unfortunately understanding what a "reasonable consumer" is creates 99% of the disputes.
Congratulations! From memory, my best subject in first year was commercial law, also mainly around the TPA (pre-ACL). I think there would be demand not only from consumers but also retailers. Imagine if MSY could have hired someone like you to avoid the $1m fine from ACCC.
The moment lorna jane released their "COVID-19 Protecting clothes line", i was like the ACCC is gonna go after them so fast. A week later, they were ordered to pay $5m in fines lol.
https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/lorna-jane-pays-5-mill…
Definitely could have been avoided.
OP: would be cool if you wrote a bit about the commonest omissions and trappings - a condensed 101 type lesson that covers all the main things without going in too deep.Perhaps it could become a permanent page on ozb.
Yeah that's a tiny pamphlet, not quite a 101.
a condensed 101 type lesson that covers all the main things without going in too deep.
Okay I guess you want something deeper.
https://www.accc.gov.au/publications/consumer-guarantees-a-g…
@fantombloo: You obviously didn't even open the PDF.
I give you 6 pages (or 2 A4 size equiv) [pdf]
Yeah that's a tiny pamphlet, not quite a 101.
I give you:
20 pages with a title of "Consumer guarantees A guide for consumers" [pdf]
Now I need my solicitor to read over it and give me the condensed form. Calling OP…
You are just lazy afoveht@ the ACCC guide has easy to understand text such as:
There is a guarantee that when you purchase a product the manufacturer or importer must provide
spare parts and repair facilities for a reasonable time after purchase. This applies even if you did not
purchase the goods directly from the manufacturer or importer.
How long is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the type of product.
This guarantee does not apply if you are advised at the time of purchase that repair facilities and spare
parts will not be available after a specified time.
A consumer purchases a new television that requires repair after 6 months. The supplier cannot
provide spare parts to repair the television.
The consumer can claim that the supplier has not met the guarantee for repairs and spare parts.
Interesting idea.
ACCC has heaps of materials but about 1/4 of it rarely happens in ordinary people transactions.
A concise flipbook thing would be cool with some banter.
It can be a tricky law.
There's also the issue of how much time you're going to spend to enforce your rights.
^^^ This.
The biggest issue with consumer rights matters is that when one party claims a right, and the supplier does not agree - how do you enforce your rights?
Especially when most consumer transactions make legal action uneconomic.
That's pretty much every case. You just have to use your discretion.
Would you waste hours on something that is just $100? Probably not, considering its not worth your time and there are probably something better out there.
If its $5000, then heck yes.
I do find that the moment you tell the rep about the ACL and a brief understanding about it, they will shit themselves.
Eg:
I had an LG fridge which was bought back in 2014 for about $5000. It had 5 years MW.
I had an ice-making problem just recently and called them up.
Briefly, they said MW is over and something like "we believe that the warranty we have given you (5years) is reasonable". Told them directly that the ACL does not state when a warranty expires and for a fridge cost be $5000, and from a reputable brand, to have a major fault like this was unacceptable. "If you do not help me, i will contact the ACCC and FT. 5 years is not acceptable for a high-end fridge and I guarantee you they will agree with me".
10 minutes later, they called me back and accepted to repair.
Took about an hour all together (call, waiting etc.)
But in the end, I got the left fridge door replaced free of charge. (and the three times the tech had to come and assess the problem).
Its always interesting when the rep tries the mislead the consumers and it pisses me off a lot. And unfortunately, not a lot of people know. Even my colleagues just stuck to the MW like it was the end.
MW is definitely NOT the end. It doesn't matter if they give you 1 month, if you believe that what you spent should last a lot longer, then you have action.
Yup, I got my expensive oven fixed with the same technique, when it was outside warranty. And boy did it cost them a lot to fix. Phew.
@poboy: Its a shame that not a lot of people know though.
My boss's fridge completely died on him just 1 month outside of MW and he thought it was the end and ended up replacing it… It was about $8000 as well, some real high tech shit.
He was real pissed when I told him about my expired MW and new fridge door lol.
if you believe that what you spent should last a lot longer, then you have action.
As per my comment above this is exactly where people go wrong.
It's "reasonable consumer", not "you". There can be a big gap between the two.
As a Dunning Krueger follower, I am very well versed in my rights. As a customer, I know I'm always right. I just threaten to sue and call Alan Fels.
I just post on ozbargain
it's what everyone does when they have a question, complain to a company, car crash, just been shot and bleeding to death (ask if they need to call 000)
I hope your law degree taught you the answer to this question…
Though 3yrs ago wouldn't you have been studying still? Or did we get caught up in someone's assignment…?
Is the common response by their legal counsel use the 'I don't recall’ defence.
?
3 years ago i didn't touch on consumer law.
Not sure if you went to uni but you learn 6xtopics per year, starting with core topics…
Id like to see a table of products, price ranges and acceptable product life. Most of the time the warranty is only 12/24 months but how long should it actually be.
How long should an 800 fridge last, 1500? 5000?
Ditto for TVs, washer/dryer.
I've had washer, coffee machine, laptops repaired outside of warranty (even a 4000 cooker with only a 2year warranty)
I’m an expert. I could write a book on my wins over the years (for myself and others) but at the same time my (imaginary) therapist could say I am OCD to a point where I put consumer rights ahead of my health.
So I recently graduated from law school and am now a fully-fledged solicitor.
Are you actually a 'fully-fledged solicitor"?
You state you have recently graduated but, according to The College of Law -
"The meaning of a solicitor under the Legal Profession Uniform Law (NSW) is “a legal practitioner who has completed a law degree and holds a practicing certificate”. This credential is gained after practical legal training (PLT) and an applicant is admitted to legal practice. Applicants must also undergo 18 – 24 months of supervised practice before obtaining a practicing certificate."
Am I reading it correctly that you need to have been working supervised for up to 2 years before you can call yourself a lawyer/solicitor?
Am only asking as it is concerning that you may get yourself in trouble making a claim that you are not allowed.
Yes I completed my PLT and have been admitted by the courts. Also got my practising certificate from the NSW Law Society
The supervised part can be backlog to part-time legal work which I've completed.
I would find this useful. I somewhat know what my rights are, but probably not enough.
Hahaha so you study all those years, place yourself in debt, only to realise, your clients are Karens.
Dep of Fair Trading, in NSW you have NCAT, there are many many avenues one can pursue for advice. eBay, PayPal, etc, are but a few more.
I think a "test" would be interesting. Sort of like the ones you take for driving where you're presented with scenarios and make a choice, then the correct choice is explained with links to the appropriate information.
If you do start a channel, don't be like yanks. Make sure you state your advice is for Australia. For some reason yanks are oblivious to the fact that their law doesn't apply (yet) worldwide.
I have a question about something that happened recently to me, but I’m assuming I have no comeback on, despite due diligence. I use prescription sunglasses which are covered by my extras insurance so long as it’s from a registered provider. I bought from a website that advertised they were this, and double checked with my insurance, all good. Turns out the business changed hands well over a year ago and it now is not registered. Isn’t this false advertising?
maybe the question should be how much you think you know about your rights