The time is coming where things will start opening up and some organisations will be better at it than others. How important is flexibility to you and will it impact your choices?
Return to Office - Will You Leave a Job That Goes Back Full Time
Vote for Pedro on 02/10/2021 - 11:27
Poll Options
- 825Flexibility is now expected and will influence my career choices
- 147It is what it is and I’ll cop what the boss says
Comments
uhuh, yeah
Op, your comment above highlights the importance of being in the office , particularly for new ‘graduates’ and those people who haven’t had years of experience
They miss out on opportunities to develop their emotional intelligence. So they example you had in your comment will not be exclusive to a few people, but a lot more
I don’t think I’ve ever advocated full time remote for all industries. Of course there’s nuance to every position.
The discussion here is about what levels if importance you place one workplace flexibility.
Eg, 1-3 days a week in office vs 4-5.
Also, the example about social cues was based on a 45yr old who had never done remote work before covid.
hmmmmm hmmmmmm
Such a state-dependent question… Answers almost need to be prefaced with "I'm from XX and I think…". Coz let's face it, some states barely noticed a difference, some have, and this would change many peoples' perceptions on how they want to work. If you then have a national company (offices in most/all states), will they alter how they do things between states or will the heavily NSW/Vic based companies use that methodology to dictate what everyone else will do
I guess covid showed that all (most of) the reasons to avoid granting greater flexibility to workers were bulls&$t.
It’s more a question of what is your view on flexibility and how you would view career opportunities.
Yes completely recognising that QLD and WA have been led well throughout the pandemic and pretty much didn’t experience lockdowns. Also recognising not all jobs can be remote/allow wfh.
I've said it before and I'll say it again but I strongly dislike working from home. I'm doing it now because I have to. Covid has ruined what used to be an occasional thing to do if I had something else on later that day(usually better than work). Be it waiting for a delivery, going away for the weekend, going for a night out. I get it. It works for some, usually people with a family etc but personally, I'm so sick of it.
A strong social team culture is an absolute must for me. Even if it is a twice a quarter gathering with everyone. At the moment I've met most people in my team twice and some not at all.
Unsure why you are getting negged for having a preference.
No idea either.
You've got it in reverse nowadays.
Lockdown is driving people with kids insane. I personally haven't heard anything positive lately on how much time they've now be forced to spend with each other.
Are you aware of the implications of your statement?
Too funnyIsn't it interesting how everyone always says "I wanna have a baby"?
They think having a baby is just pregnancy, but it is just the beginning.
They are being told what is like with kids but they have not experienced it, easy said than done
I want to have children. I don’t want to be locked in a house with them indefinitely as their only source of interaction. Actually, I don’t want to be locked in my house indefinitely full-stop. I think that’s what’s driving me crazy.
Agree and it's the same for just about everyone i work with who has a family (and many who dont). Same for my neighbours too. We all can't wait to get back to the office.
Lockdown for people with kids who aren't at school is where I hear the complaints, none of these parents want to return to an office, its just that they don't want to spend all day with their kids either!
i dont mind, i would spend most my time off with the kids regardless, its more the fact that during lockdown you are confined to home and a small radius around it.
we know the neighbourhood and all the playgrounds by heart, all the nature spots, takeaways, cartoons, games internet, thats the real issue not the kids.
if i could i would even sell my house and move just to see something different
I pity you for being dependent on office for company and socializing.
I don’t completely depend on it but it is important to me. Not everyone cares about it and that is fine.
Especially now that it will be hopefully easier to move cities I want to do that. What is slightly putting me off is moving somewhere new, working from home and not ever meeting anyone.
I don’t expect to find a best mate at work or go drinking till the small hours with my colleagues but I think some sort of culture is important. I could never go fully remote. Otherwise it is go to work, do your job and go home is all your day is.
I find teams more practical than walking around in the office trying to find the person to talk-to only to find out they've gone out for a walk.
Actually I am more productive working from home. No more elongated coffee breaks. Saves me more than couple of hours of commute. And i am not exhausted at the end of the day. And my boss is very flexible, when I don't feel 100%, just have 30 minutes nap after informing him. And usually end up working more hours from home.
Don't want to go back to 2-3 hours commuting every day, no thanks
Likewise, then having a boss saying stop talking too much. Mental!
So let’s beg for scraps instead of pushing to bring everyone up? They have you conned. Bailouts for big business, no due diligence on covid support for big business raking in millions of free taxpayer money and yet here we are fighting amongst ourselves.
They have won.
They’re saying that you should think twice before quitting if you don’t have an offer because it’s a tough job market. That’s not begging for scraps it’s just prudence. The o thing saving unemployment numbers is all the people who have left the labour force.
Get a grip.
depends on your industry, this is a a great job market for some.
Interesting. What industry are you in?
In digital/tech, there's a massive shortage in talents and theres heaps of opportunities right now to hop ship and get a significant pay bump.
Also, I think it's always good to strive for more.
in any industry that ran on importing skilled knowledge workers, this is a great job market.
That's such a low bar. Just because people are desperate for work doesn't mean people can't argue for better working conditions. That benefits everyone. We're not money producing machines, we are people with lives.
I prefer to work from an office, so when we all go back into the office, ill be starting to look for a new job, that is in the middle of the CBD. COz thats where previous jobs have been, and i find that CBD location is perfect for me
My employer is struggling to attract and retain at the moment because we have a strict “in office 5 days a week” policy. Obviously that isn’t the case at the moment because of lockdown, but after lockdown is finished, all will be expected back full time. We’re interviewing people and offering roles and they are rejecting them because of the lack of flexibility.
There’s got to be a balance and some employers just don’t get it.
Do they NEED to be in the office 5 days? Some jobs could reasonably expect that
My boss doesn't believe in working from home, and only accepted 1 day per week…which is dumb because it ends up being treated like a day off. Everyone wanted theirs on Fridays
I ended up telling my team they had to take 2 days from home minimum, but 1 wasn't allowed for that reason
A lot of work on computers can be done from home but they don't have the same control and supervisory or authoritative control on what you can or cannot do. I see a rise in prying supervisory software market in the coming years.
Yes our plant's SCADA is deliberately setup that way. You can view but not change anything. Can't have someone opening and closing valves from their couch
We're not going back to the office until January next year and that will be only three days a week even though all of our deliverables were met during lockdowns. I would prefer 1-2 days a week in the office
Realistically its a win win for everyone. If you implemented hot desking (done right) the business can save on real estate footprint and get the flexibility balance right.
Not sure how hot desking is a win for employees.
You no longer have your own desk, spend the morning wandering round looking for an available desk that may be some distance from your colleagues, the desk may need a clean because the previous occupant left it in a state, etc
My company uses a booking system so you can find where your colleagues are sitting and book a desk near them
Done right was a key component of my comment. I’ve seen many attempts at hot-desking. Most implementations are pathetic.
Done right with the right technology mix, break out spaces, focus areas, collaboration spaces, meeting spaces and most importantly clear protocols for staff, hot-desking is a far superior work environment.
Its great for breaking silos and supports collaboration. It’s really a shame the poor implementations give it such a bad name.
Done right with the right technology mix, break out spaces, focus areas, collaboration spaces, meeting spaces
With all the extra spaces needed you hardly save on real estate costs.
In fact, in the two businesses I've experienced going from a perm desk for everyone to best of breed hot desking. No real estate space was saved and over crowding was an issue when everyone wants to come to the office and you have interstate and international visitors etc.
@serpserpserp: I guess our experiences differ. In 3 years of hot-desking I’ve had the no desk issue once. And then i just used a breakout/visitor area.
We’ve also gone from 5 floors to 4 in the same building so a 20% real estate saving. Not insignificant.
My guess is with wfh becoming the norm they could lose 2 more floors and reconfigure the remaining 2 to be more about collaboration/connection. Luckily the mob I work for consider the long term ROI rather than short term costs.
I love it, but recognise some miss their own desk.
There’s a small group of commercial property people who are doing media about how bad wfh is and how productivity is lost. But even thhey are now shifting to enticing people back as the reality is the vast majority of people do what’s expected of them at work. The bludgers will be bludgers no matter where they’re working and that really needs management intervention regardless.
Westpac does this in their Barangaroo office. Although it says you dont have fix desk but you are allotted to floor/area. You are definitely going to get the desk in that area. And people usually have their desk fixed where they sit usually. Unless they are very late to turn up to the work. In my entire tenure of 2+ years there, it happened only once that I had to look for desk else where.
Hot desking would be the reason I'd never return to the office or find another job, to hell with that. Never seen it implemented in a way that's remotely setup for the employee unless the idea of it was just to crush people's souls that little extra for the hours they have to spend in the office.
Also the "win win for everyone" isn't seen by all, many don't have dedicated work spaces at home, I know plenty working at a kitchen table during the day, or at a small desk in a small bedroom where they also sleep as they don't have sufficient room and don't want (can't afford) the added expense of a larger place just so they can dedicate one room or area just "for work" without any of the compensation for that dedicated space from the company.
from my personally experience with hotdesking, some people would get emtionally attached to a certain desk and could sometimes cause a scene if someone else beat them to "their" desk.
It is pathetic isn't it?
@serpserpserp: I'd say it's an OCD or routine thing for many people.
I know a couple people like that, while I don't work with them they're very particular about stuff like that (can't really control it) so I could see how it would end in some kind of melt down.
I currently work 1 whole week in the office every month, the employer needs someone in the office to do some admin and support work… basically just do print outs, which is just ridiculous coz it's easy to just go paperless for my job. And I get paid peanuts, once we have to be in office full time I'll be looking for jobs that offers better flexibility, covid is not going to disappear, there's no reason to waste 2 hours in commute every day and wear a mask for 8 hours just because the company needs someone to do printouts.
I’ve been mostly working from home since April last year, and if I have a choice I won’t be doing it - I find home too distracting and I’m very unfocused. That’s while living by myself, can’t imagine what it’s like with other people in the house!
I look forward to working from the office and maybe working from home one day a week for variety, but that’s it. I don’t really socialise in the office (and most of my team is elsewhere) so that is not a factor for me.
I ride my bike to work and it’s not that far away, so there’s few reasons for me not to go to the office. I also like going for walks at lunchtime.
I can understand why people would rather work from home, and hopefully workplaces will accommodate that within reason. I can also understand why employers would rather have people in the office, so that flexibility goes both ways. There’s great value in working with your team and interacting with them in person.
Agree. Same here. Same for most of my co-workers.
I’m a shift worker in the manufacturing industry, so have no idea what working from home is.
Even before covid I was negotiating how many days a week I was coming into office. I guess my job was in demand so ball was in my court.
I wouldn't be going for any job that requires more than twice a week in office.
Though flexibility is expected, don't take advantage of it.
I see this as an easy way for employers to ship more jobs to overseas now they can see it can be done.We don't live in a democracy if we're talking about this. Behind our freedoms is a dictatorship, both running the country and our bosses. If you think otherwise, you're living a lie.
Well that’s gone from a conversation about flexibility to all out war in a heartbeat. Settle petal.
Maybe change your user name to RocketTriggered
Well, that's not a bad idea. That's a good suggestion.
Cop it? Can't wait for it, I much prefer working from the office.
Bit of a loaded poll response. I would probably leave my job if they expected us to continue WFH. I hate WFH and can’t wait to get back in the office full-time.
Totally agree and most of my colleagues agree, not to mention my neighbours in the street. Thank god we can go back full time.
Google "great resignation" its an interesting topic.
Recently bought a investment property in regional area, really tempted to just cash out and be done with the rat race.
3rd option
No change
I'm a very outcomes focussed manager in the way that I only care if my staff are doing the work that they need to do (to an acceptable level of quality), and don't really care where they do it.
There have been some mumblings from execs saying that we are "expected" to be in the office full time, but I just relay to my team that as long as we hit all work objectives required of us, I don't care if they are at home or not. If I get queries about the percentage of time staff are in the office, I just relay our work output and ask if there's an issue.
I do feel that it is hard to create a team bonding atmosphere without some level of physical face-to-face contact, but at the same time I appreciate that some people would simply rather prefer to stay at home.
So is flexibility important to me? Yeah, because it's one less issue I need to address with staff, and its an issue that I think is irrelevant to your job output in most cases.
Same, my whole team is remote (all of them bar one were hired post-COVID). I personally prefer working from the office, but nobody that I manage will be expected to come in (and most of them are in other cities, so it's not like they'd be in the same office as me if they did happen to come into one of our offices).
Team building is an issue that we're still working on improving, it takes a more deliberate effort for stuff that would come naturally with in person work. When things settle down we'll be doing some in person things though.
WFH flexibility is not going to workout in most places because senior managers are mostly older generations and so useless at using computers
Can't wait to get back into the office full time. Most of my colleagues agree. It has been a big productivity and innovation loss since working from home. It has also been bad for our mental health to not have the separation of home and work and not have the face to face human interaction.
Innovation loss ? Just be real - we have seen more innovations in the last 2 years in all industries.
Make no mistake if someone else signs your paycheck then you're 99% replaceable.
Unless your position requires a highly qualified person to do it
If someone believes they are irreplaceable, they might be fooling themselves. There's thousands of people waiting in line for every job.
Eye surgeon in a public hospital gets paid $300k per annum full time
Eye surgeon in private practice gets paid $60k per day of private cataracts
The ones working in public are essentially doing it for the love of it, maybe to funnel a few patients to their private practice, but essentially providing a public service.
I don't like working from home. Terrible for my mental health.
I did work from home most of last year.
I like the face to face interaction, but also because it makes things easier.
I think it is better for career growth and personal growth.
I do work from home occasionally when i want to avoid people. Lol
Is this yet another example of democracy at its best… or worst. Sometimes I just don't understand.
Another reason to start a protest again I reckon - anti-wfh vs anti-wfo.
they better be flexible, or i am out of there.
As much as I like lockdown to end, I'm in no rush in ending WFH, I hope I can WFH forever
I was WFH for over a year (two days a week only though, never had so much time for myself, 5 day weekends, and the kids are at school), when we were asked to go back into the office I resisted as much as I could. I had anxiety.
After going back in April (4 days in the office and 1 day WFH), after a day or two I did not know what the fuss was about. Time away from the wife and kids is a good thing.
When away from home, I feel free, no need to think about home stuff. I could browse the shops at lunch.
After being WFH since July but now WFH 5 days (not two this time around), it's very hard with kids home too. But I this time around I don't think I want to go back in the office, because the case numbers are crazy now, during the time last year it was like no cases for most of the year, I do not feel comfortable going in because of COVID and nothing to do with flexibility.
Only did a couple of months WFH anyway, and even then I was still going in twice a week.
Whatever job pays my role +20k vs baseline/competitors can decide if I WFH or from office. Doesn't bother me.
I can’t wait to return to the office. WFH has its flexibility but not full time.
It’s far more productive to work with teams face to face.
My job can be done 100% remotely. Prior to covid I was in the city 5 days a week and would work ~10 days a year from home when it was an emergency or I needed to be home for something.
I absolutely love WFH. I've got a very well equipped office setup in one of my bedrooms.
My company is fairly flexible (most people are doing 2/3 split WFH or in the office) however my boss is very old school and is bad with technology so really struggled when we first switched to 100% WFH. Compromise now is 4 days in the city, 1 day at home. I'd much rather 1-2 days in the city and the rest at home.
Will definitely be a major consideration if I moved companies. I'd want at least 1-2 days at home or much higher compensation for the extra hours.
I save so much money and have an extra 10 hours a week by not having to commute into the city.
The reasons for WFH will be over soon and corporate landlords will want their rent income. Also no one works hard at home, better to be one of the productive ones in the office.
So you mean that you need to be seen to be productive ?
This is the government in a nutshell, they need to fill the office space they paid for to justify it.
Once the money's allocated they don't want to give it back.
This and it seems that gov wants to use it as an excuse to stimulate the local economy by putting workers in the area.Although i'd debate no one works hard at home, government is probably 50% utilised on a good day, so it's not like productivity is going to be affected.
Need WFH min of 3 days a week
Hello middle manager who lacks any skill in actually managing.
hello bludger.
Awesome angry year 6 essay
Future debating team material right here
thanks for demonstrating what real debating skill really is Gruehunter.
WFH can work well. It depends on your industry, your work culture, your management's skills.
There are plenty of industries where WFH is not possible due to the physical nature of the work. ie. someone has to lift or move something, someone has to view something and press a button, someone has to interact with customers or clients, etc. There are also plenty of industries where it is entirely possible to allow the workforce to WFH and maintain productivity. This includes most 'white collar' work not requiring face-to-face customer interactions. For example, professional services industries, information workers, etc.
WFH needs to be founded on solid, established and trusted performance management. If your organisation doesn't have that, then it will go badly.
Agree on each worker's work deliverables and constraints in partnership with the worker. Agree on how your organisation's work culture will operate in a WFH scenario. Track and manage deliverables and performance frequently. Remediate performance issues quickly in partnership with the worker. Be human and support your workforce's mental health and WFH/lockdown issues.
WFH doesn't work when you have a poor work culture and/or poor managers who can't constructively performance manage staff.
In many organisations going forward there will be no requirement for the workforce to be physically present in the office environment if they don't want to and can meet their expected deliverables. What will be interesting in coming years is how many workers will be asking for an office work environment instead of being required to WFH.
In about March this year, after it dawned on me that my employer was too rigid and the organisation incapable of learning, I decided it was my last year here. As a government employee, my broader awareness of the management of pandemic has encouraged me to move overseas. This is confirmed, too. Any sense of 'healthy patriotism' I had prior to covid was stripped away by fear-mongering politics.
Last year was much worse, in that even during the peak of it, our highest level manager in the region decided unilaterally that our work was essential, and it needed to be completed in the office (absolutely not the case, it was just for his own reporting).
This year has not been as bad, however there have been some very sobering moments. Primarily, during a lockdown period this year, my work output probably doubled but and I had my Skype status set to appear away. My incompetent supervisor called me and berated me for not being at my computer.
But, does me leaving equate to a drop of piss in the ocean? Yep, but in my 3.5 years in this role I've rewritten a number of already-approved business cases that I found abhorrent and estimate that I've comfortably saved the department over $20m. Presenteeism is rife and most people I know produce literally no outputs, they just collate a few bits of easily accessible data into short reports for $130k a year.
The few competent people I know are in the same boat as me. The most incompetent people are all excited to stay. I think most businesses that don't change will collapse, and not many rigid institutions will survive this in the long term.
Here’s something I’ve found with WFH. I actually give the company more of my time. Where I used to commute 2-3hrs a day, now I bank half for myself and more often than not, give the other half to the company.
sure we believe you Pedro.
You’re the kind who’d rather have people sitting at their desks for 8hrs so you can see them at work rather than expand your personal capability to shift to outcome based management and performance measurement.
If as a leader I have people working remotely and are delivering on the outcomes we have agreed, where’s the problem?
because it's bloody inconvenient? when you have to ask someone a question you are having to phone someone only to have that person not answer the call and not being able to have that person come to your desk or yourself at their desk to go through something? maybe you have a job that requires zero interaction with other people but most jobs aren't like that.
As much as I love the people in my team as people, there are just some that don’t get social cues. If I’m typing and looking at my computer and answering with ‘uhuh, yeah’ then I’m not for conversation.
The worst part is I’ve been direct, indirect and everything in between to get the message through and nothing works.
Again, nice people and all, and even nice for the odd chat and beer, but there are limits.
So one day a week would be max for me.