Changed Mind on Rental (Have Paid Bond but Lease Unsigned)

noonu on 30/09/2021 - 13:28
Last edited 30/09/2021 - 13:37 by 1 other user

Hi Guys

I have done visual inspection for a rental property and liked it through face time. We submitted the documents and they agent approved it and asked for the bond which I paid through Rtb. Yesterday I have requested the agent to show me the property in person so I could take dimensions for the furniture. We went there and didn’t like it, as it looks better virtually. They sent me an email to sign the lease agreement but I called them today and explained that we don’t wanna proceed with it.

The agent told me that I have to pay for $330 advertising fees plus one weeks rent but we haven’t moved and signed the document. He also said that otherwise he will go through VCAT.

Please help.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • oscargamer on 30/09/2021 - 13:31

    What documents have you signed at this time?

    Have you had a receipt for the bond?

  • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 13:33

    Yes have a receipt for the bond.

    Just lodged bond with rtb.

    Lease docs nt signed

  • coffeeinmyveins on 30/09/2021 - 13:37
    +15

    didn’t like it as it looks better virtually

    Well…yeah? that's why you look at it in person and never trust the angles they show.

    The agent told me that i have to pay for $330 advertising fees plus one weeks rent

    Doubtful. It's weird you've paid the bond and haven't signed a lease. I'd just lodge a return for my bond from the bond agency and the agent then has to submit a request to block it. If it went to VCAT, they dont have a signedlease.

  • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 13:49
    +1

    Yes true should had done the visual inspection.

    Lesson learned.

    He was saying that the owner wouldn’t be be happy as u r saying after a week that u didn’t like it. He said legally he could go through VCAT and eventually u will lose ur whole bond.

    • ThithLord on 30/09/2021 - 14:07
      +25

      They're trying to scare you into agreeing.

    • garetz on 30/09/2021 - 14:59
      +3

      Scaredy cat tactics, don't listen to what they tell you.

    • Mallard on 30/09/2021 - 15:06
      +9

      Ask them to put all this in writing. There's no point continuing this verbally so write everything down in an email. I bet that this problem will just go away then

    • coffeeinmyveins on 30/09/2021 - 15:58
      +10

      He said legally he could go through VCAT and eventually u will lose ur whole bond.

      Lose your bond……for a lease you haven't signed?

      I'm sure VCAT would love to hear the explanation as to why they have lodged a bond for a lease that isn't signed, and will promptly tell the REA to go away. It wouldn't even get to that though, just submit a request for your bond and you'll see your problem doesn't materialize.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 30/09/2021 - 13:52
    +10

    Don't think you're liable but even then I would call their bluff and tell them to take it to VCAT. Property managers are so lazy in VIC I really doubt they'll bother.

    • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 13:53

      Thanks mate.

  • MITM on 30/09/2021 - 14:34
    +5

    Put a clause at the bottom of the lease - "subject to in person inspection" and return it, unsigned of course.

  • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 14:36
    -6

    I think the agent may have a case if you've delayed them in taking on a renter.
    I wouldn't be too pleased if i'd have been left out of a week or two's rent ($400+ for your decisions). Have seen cases where the landlord/agent has charged damages for the length of time up until a new tenant has been found.
    Given you haven't signed a lease agreement they may have a hard time though, but they do have a bond.

    1 weeks rent + advertising would be a fair trade off imho.

    • freefall101 on 30/09/2021 - 15:54
      +3

      Simply being annoyed does not account to a case. The owner of the property isn't magically owed rent just because they want it and they can blame the agent for screwing up the virtual inspection so badly that the property looked different to what it really does.

      Also, they don't have the bond, the RTBA does. If they decide to illegally take money from it they're definitely not in for a fun time.

      If there was no agreement (sounds like there was verbal, not contractual, so who knows) then the owner isn't out anything they were obligated to receive.

      • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 15:58
        +3

        There's no documentation that the agent screwed up the virtual inspection.
        The tenant watched it, was happy with the inspection and agreed to rent the place - even transferring the bond.
        Pulling out at the 11th hour because of change of mind/not being happy with the place post inspection will be an interesting stance to defend.

        At the end of the day the landlord is taking a loss for the run around and would have grounds for compensation from either the RE or Prospective tenant (Landlord sues RE who would sue the prospective tenant)

        • freefall101 on 30/09/2021 - 16:11
          +4

          There's no documentation that the tenant agreed to rent it either. I'm not suggesting the landlord should sue the tenant but if they want someone to be angry at, there's the target.

          Landlords are not owed a rental income by the universe. There was no one renting their property, they provided zero service, so why do they deserve compensation? Them's the brakes of renting property, if you can't get someone in it then you don't get paid.

          Unless one of the bits of paper the tenant submitted says they agreed to pay in the case of a change of mind then the landlord might be unhappy, but they don't really have a case just because they missed out on some income.

          • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 16:19
            +1

            @freefall101: Firstly, i agree, landlords aren't owed a rental income - There's nothing saying they have to get a return of $XXX every week on their home.

            HOWEVER

            If say a renter would've started paying rent from a certain week - such as one that has verbally agreed, as the OP has put it below, to move in and sent through a bond then you would have a claim for loss of rent on your hands as, if it were a competitive rental, they would've been able to fill the place.

            And yes verbal agreements are enforceable in court, payment of the bond wouldn't help the OP's case either as that would show intent to rent.

            Just notably I'm not saying the REA has gone about the right way, accepting the bond prior to signing of the documents is poor form.

            • Cheaplikethebird on 30/09/2021 - 16:39
              -1

              @Drakesy: You're stuck on what is logical and fair, not what is likely to be decided at VCAT. Remember this is Victoria we're talking about.

              The fact is – VCAT attendance is rarely in the landlords’ best interest – in our experience, rulings tend to lean in favour of the tenant. That’s why VCAT attendance should really be considered a last option for resolution after all other pathways of negotiation have been exhausted
              (https://www.infolio.com.au/is-vcat-good-for-landlords/)

    • coffeeinmyveins on 30/09/2021 - 16:00
      +1

      Found the property investor.

      Nah mate. You being "not pleased" doesn't equate to "legally binding" for a - wait for it - lease that hasn't been signed.

      REA is doing the dodgy and OP has no obligations.

      • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 16:06
        +1

        Unfortunately no
        I'm actually quite the opposite
        I'm a Y-gen with no house and currently renting and hoping to buy if the property market ever sorts itself out.

        If renters walked around talking to agents and agreeing to take on leases, even to go as far as paying a bond it would waste everyone's time and money.
        It delays other renters from getting into the property
        It wastes the real estate agent's time.
        It wastes the landlord's time and money.

        Acting like you can go around putting in expressions of intent and pulling out won't help anyone.
        I go back to the auction example. if you put in a notice to buy and then pull out the REA and owner can and will come after you for damages.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 30/09/2021 - 17:01
          +1

          I go back to the auction example. if you put in a notice to buy and then pull out the REA and owner can and will come after you for damages.

          That's different though IMO. OP hasn't signed a lease. TBH it's weird that bond was collected before the lease was signed.

          If renters walked around talking to agents and agreeing to take on leases

          Hasn't taken on the lease though, since it wasn't signed.

  • stirlo on 30/09/2021 - 14:38
    +4

    No lease signed = what grounds do they have to make you pay anything?

    • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 15:51
      +3

      It'd be a grey area, but if the landlord/real estate agent has been stuffed around the landlord would find they'd have a case for compensation, similar if you've bought a house at auction and now don't want it, at the end of the day who's going to reimburse them for their lost rent and the agent's time?

      But yes, paying a bond without signing a tenancy agreement definitely sounds suss. I feel the OP isn't telling us the whole story.

      • DingoBilly on 30/09/2021 - 16:46
        +2

        If they haven't signed a contract they really don't have any obligations. so they're not beholden to anything. E.g., for Vic (https://tenantsvic.org.au/advice/common-problems/bonds/)

        "
        When you should pay a bond:
        You should only pay your bond after you have:

        a signed rental agreement
        been given a completed condition report and a bond lodgment form signed by the rental provider
        If you pay any money before these things happen, Tenants Victoria recommends you make it clear in writing that it is a ‘holding deposit’ and not a bond, as holding deposits must be returned within 24 hours if you decide not to sign the agreement to go ahead with the rental.
        "

        The issue with your example is at an auction, by bidding you are actually entering into a contract in most states that is legally binding. So it's not really apples to apples.

        • Drakesy on 30/09/2021 - 17:04
          +1

          You can buy a house at auction and back out without signing a contract.

          Doesn't mean that you're not legally liable for damages such as REA's time and recovery of any losses.
          Owners can, have and will follow those that do this for compensation, if you delay the house going back to market and the market moves down (in either rent or property value) then the owner can sue for the difference, in some cases - for houses this can be $100,000's +

  • Seraphin7 on 30/09/2021 - 14:43
    +2

    It's odd that you paid the bond without signing anything/inspecting the property. What was the purpose of this? What was the content of your correspondence with the agent that led you to pay the bond? That will be instructive on how VCAT would look at your matter.

  • garetz on 30/09/2021 - 15:18
    +11

    What i dont understand is why pay the bond before signing the lease ? It should always be the other way around.

  • raptormesh on 30/09/2021 - 15:31

    Usually bond paid after lease is signed…so this is weird.

  • Porker on 30/09/2021 - 15:36
    +5

    Could paying the bond demonstrated acceptance of the lease?

    Something doesn't add up. Was there verbal agreement or some implied acceptance?

    I suspect OP is not telling full story, otherwise why hand over money without any form of agreement in place.

    • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 15:53

      Bond goes to RTB.
      Yes verbally agreed without seeing the property-in person. But yeah lease was not signed.

      • Porker on 30/09/2021 - 15:57
        +4

        If this then can be argued as acceptance of the agreement, then I can see why the REA/landlord have reacted as such.

        Why pay the bond if you're not agreeing to the contract? There is no 'subject to inspection' clause, or is there?

        • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 16:16
          -2

          There’s a document called contract to be signed.

          • Porker on 30/09/2021 - 16:20
            +4

            @noonu: What I'm eluding to is that your actions could be considered as acceptance, even if the contract was not signed.

            There are legal situations where a contract can be agreed to by the parties even though not signed, which may be your case. In particular, your paying of the bond.

            That's why I'm trying to highlight that simply saying that the contract is not signed may not be sufficient enough to walk away from the situation.

            • Seraphin7 on 30/09/2021 - 22:14
              +2

              @Porker: We're getting closer to the real action here.

              The payment of a bond would look very like the acceptance of the offer (who pays a bond without an intent to lease?).

              The fact you have not signed a contract is not the slam dunk that you can get out of it.

              In the absence of a signed contract and where there is a dispute such as the one at hand, arbitrators (courts, tribunals), etc., will seek evidence of offer and acceptance (a signed contract is not the only way an offer can be accepted). Such evidence will include correspondence between parties and specific actions take (such as the payment of a bond).

              Without being an expert in what the law allows for in this specific case, and therefore what if any damages the OP might be liable for, there is evidence mounting that there has in fact been offer and acceptance.

        • stirlo on 30/09/2021 - 18:23

          Probably a stronger case if you objected to a term in the written contract than simply said I don't like the place…

  • spackbace on 30/09/2021 - 16:00
    +2

    I bet you've emailed and said "yep we'll take it" or some such, plus paid money. IANAL, but this could be construed as a legal agreement, even without formalising it by signing a contract

    • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 16:06
      -3

      Thanks fot the judgement but I didn’t email anything like that.

      • spackbace on 30/09/2021 - 16:32
        -1

        How else were you asked to pay the bond? Are you saying there was zero acceptance… bullshit

        • noonu on 30/09/2021 - 16:49

          Yes bond is processed through RTB. Also they emailed me today that you have 24 Hrs to sign the lease agreement in order to secure the property.
          I have also confirmed with consumer affairs and they advised me that you didn’t sign a document so not liable to pay a weeks rent.

          • jv on 30/09/2021 - 16:58
            +1

            @noonu:

            advised me that you didn’t sign a document so not liable to pay a weeks rent.

            Maybe not the rent, but the damages…

    • Gratt on 30/09/2021 - 16:51
      +1

      Someone should have a look at the act. In QLD you cannot enter into a lease agreement unless you use the prescribed tenancy form. I think prior to that legislation you could enter a leasing contract verbally and certainly by paying a bond.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 30/09/2021 - 16:20
    +2

    let them take you to VCAT, I bet they are just bluff. The cost going to VCAT will be more than 1-week rent + $330 and they cant put the legal cost onto you without approval by the VCAT member. So I doubt they will go through VCAT.

  • Summoner on 30/09/2021 - 16:48
    +1

    Usually, the deposit you pay before entering the agreement is holding deposit. This is a deposit you pay to hold the property for the agreement. There is a specific period you need to withdraw if you want full refund. If the period is not specified, its 48 hours in QLD(not sure about VIC).

    Considering you have not entered into agreement, the deposit you paid seems to be a holding deposit, and you did not withdraw the application in time. So they are taking the holding deposit. If not, you will need to contact tenancy authority for further guidance.

  • carlJack on 30/09/2021 - 17:10

    Call their bluff. Dont cave in.

  • yellowfever on 30/09/2021 - 19:29
    +1

    Refer to your year 10 legal class topic of "offer and acceptance"

    This is a true example of that topic

    Also remember the agent has many ways to make you liable. They are setup to deal with these kinds of issues, whereas this is your first experience.

    They may be bluffing but in most situations if your attitude was honest that you screwed up they may be able to make this matter disappear.

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