African Heritage as a Condition of Employment

cookie2 on 22/09/2021 - 21:40
Last edited 23/09/2021 - 19:12 by 1 other user

Looking on seek at jobs etc and came across a government primary school role that stated the following as a Condition of Employment.

This role is identified as available for African heritage applicants only. Confirmation of your African heritage may be requested.

Just intrigued to know if I'm the only jobseeker out there, feeling like race is an obstacle in the job market before I even get to the interview.

I don't think it's right for race to be a Condition of Employment. Language, i get it. But race? This just feels like blatant positive discrimination aka discrimination.

It's hard enough to find a job, now my heritage can either get me a job, or close the door in my face.

How do others feel about it? Thoughts?

Link below should work
Check out this job on SEEK: Transitions and Cultural Safety Officer - North-east African from Flemington Primary School - https://www.seek.com.au/job/53802042

Btw to anyone wanting popcorn, I've got a few from a recent half price promo, we can share 😁

***Update ***

Although my intention was to genuinely get others opinions, i have noticed that the job ad has now been removed off multiple platforms including Seek. Does make one wonder why.

Poll Options

  • 348
    Ok with me
  • 278
    Not ok at all
  • 37
    Don't care
Education & Work

Comments

    • dcash on 24/09/2021 - 08:24

      Considering the kids attending don't even have to pretend they are of any particular religion anymore, I highly doubt the schools care about the religion of the majority of their teachers also. It's all about the $$$

  • MessyG on 23/09/2021 - 19:12

    Job ad as been removed. I'm sure many concerned community members like yourself complained about their very open requirements and I sure hope that when they relist without that requirement, they get who they need for that role, working with marginalised North African students.

    • fossilfuel on 23/09/2021 - 19:49

      This looks like the same ad. The ad is 2 weeks old and the school might have found the right candidate.

  • SillySorjai on 23/09/2021 - 19:19

    First, you are overreacting tbh.

    Secondly, it is not that simple. As a business owner, one of the business considerations is what do my customers want and how do they think.

    I don't really care too much about the ethnicity of whom I hire as long as they get the job done well however I cannot ignore my customers needs /perceptions.

    To give you a simple example, you go to two Japanese restaurants next door to each other. Same menu, one consists entirely of Japanese chefs and the other does not have a single Japanese chef but mix of caucasians, African heritage.

    If the typical average person is seeking an "authentic" Japanese meal which restaurant do you think will win their patronage?

    • LFO on 23/09/2021 - 20:53

      If the typical average person is seeking an "authentic" Japanese meal which restaurant do you think will win their patronage?

      Irrelevant I will say.

      The best and more popular Argentinean restaurant in Sydney has a head chef who is Brazilian … customer just will not care nor understand one bit.

      • pogichinoy on 24/09/2021 - 00:49

        Agree. There's a popular Mexican restaurant chain here that is managed and cooked by Asians.

        People go because it tastes damn delicious not because of the ethnicity of the employees.

      • bobolo on 24/09/2021 - 08:57
        +2

        by looks alone, I wouldn't be able to tell beween an Argentinian and Mexican chef

        I would never walk into a Japanese restaurant with an African chef hahahah….come on guys lets be real

        • LFO on 24/09/2021 - 19:09

          by looks alone, I wouldn't be able to tell beween an Argentinian and Mexican chef

          As the cheesy Hollywood line goes: You need to get out more if unable to spot the difference between the two.
          It goes further than a chef hat.

          an African chef

          Born in Africa from Japanese parents or meaning a black person born in Africa???? Lets be real.

          • bobolo on 25/09/2021 - 13:37

            @LFO: Ok. I'll be real.

            A black person standing behind the fish at a sushi restaurant

            Same as if I saw a Japanese chef cooking at an African restaurant

            If a white bloke was chopping up the duck and char siu at those Chinese takeaway places it'd be quiet as a library.

            You can argue that these generalisations are not fair, but this is what happends in the real world.

            • LFO on 25/09/2021 - 19:09

              @bobolo: Yes, now calling a spade a spade.
              Agree 100%

              Assuming "African" with black is not.

              All good now.

      • munecito on 25/09/2021 - 12:58

        So that is why porteño's food is that bad.

        I tell you something. Argentinians, Uruguayans and all those who have lived and eaten real Argentinian food care.

        I left a review a few years back.

        The rest of the market doesn't because they go for a place name.

        Similar to outback steakhouse in the USA. Americans will eat it. Australians not so much.

      • crentist on 26/09/2021 - 12:37

        customer just will not care nor understand one bit.

        But this is the important bit. We don't have much exposure to South Americans, so we cant easily distinguish people and cuisines. We would be happy with an approximation, and the market caters to that ignorance.

        This is very different to the example of Japanese/non-Asians because people can pick up on that difference.

        Funny thing is, many smaller Japanese places are actually run by Koreans. And many people don't realise, and wouldn't know if the food is authentic, because they can't tell identify the people or food very well. But after spending a few years in Japan, I now understand why Japanese friends often complain about those places being crappy approximations of Japanese food.
        It's not that they can't be very good and authentic, it's that these places often aren't trying to be.

        And so ironically, while I'd prefer Japanese chefs, I'd probably pick the white/African chefs over usual places that rely on the ignorance of their customers.

  • Chochkee on 23/09/2021 - 20:29
    +4

    For those who thinks this is fine - great, that’s your opinion. But it should work both ways then. There should be no judgement against businesses requesting whites or asians as a requirement.

    • dcash on 24/09/2021 - 08:28
      +1

      There are plenty of businesses who will only hire Asians, and the staff (naturally) comprises 100% Chinese or Korean. I know I'll get slammed, but the reality is that as a general rule, Asians will only hire "their own people" (to quote Ryde Deputy Mayor Simon Zhou, who considers himself only required to serve the Chinese community), whereas white Australians almost always hire based on "can they do the job". It was different a few decades ago when they were mostly Honkies, but now talking about the mainland Chinese it's a different story. You can call me what you like for calling it out, but that's the reality where I live.

      • bobolo on 24/09/2021 - 12:15
        -2

        lmao no…"white Australians" almost always cast prejudice/stereotype when hiring staff on any of the following; age, race, gender, religious background, accent, physical appearance, facebook/insta pics, family status and more

        The truth is, everyone sterotypes and discriminates when hiring. There is nothing wrong with it IMO because a lot of jobs can only be done effectively if you are a certain age, race, gender etc etc…..

        Even if its not "right", you can't do anything about it.

      • LFO on 24/09/2021 - 19:11

        whereas white Australians almost always hire based on "can they do the job".

        Except when quotas to forcefully hire women where introduced …
        Stop dreaming …

        • dcash on 24/09/2021 - 20:13
          +1

          Well ok, with the exception of gender quotas ;)

        • bobolo on 25/09/2021 - 13:40

          I said 'almost always'

          The fact that there is an imbalance of gender at any workplace where a 'quota' even needs to exist proves my point.

          • [Deactivated] on 27/09/2021 - 19:48

            @bobolo: Nursing
            Teaching
            Childcare
            What's your point exactly?

    • MessyG on 24/09/2021 - 12:42

      I mean, this is the norm. They're just not transparent about it like this job ad was.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2021 - 20:43
    +1

    I personally have knowledge of a government job that only employs people if they are under 28 - 30 years old, with a few exceptions if you are older but look young. Yes, you read that right.

    It is not advertised as such but it is common knowledge and they will sort of (may or may not) tell you if you ask or ask why you were rejected.

    Source: I know the person doing the employing and I know most of the people employed there.

  • LFO on 23/09/2021 - 20:50
    +1

    This role is identified as available for African heritage applicants only.

    Pretty pretty vague restriction …

    Is it a fifth generation white South African one of them?

    Is an Egyptian one of them?

    Is a Libyan one of them?

    Is an Algerian one of them?

    Is a Sudanese one of them?

    And, God forbidden nowadays, is a native from French colonial Côte d'Ivoire one of them?

    Not a leg to stand on …

  • DiscoJango on 23/09/2021 - 21:26
    +2

    !Bile

  • Eeples on 23/09/2021 - 22:24

    OP has been informed of the difference between race and heritage.

  • Eeples on 23/09/2021 - 22:30

    Is it this position?

    The job closed yesterday I think.

    Same position, I think. One with African heritage the other without.

    https://www.ethicaljobs.com.au/members/flem3031/transitions-…

    And here… closed.

    https://au.jora.com/job/j-796753fcfaffa0593618c115ab834775

  • pogichinoy on 24/09/2021 - 00:46

    Affirmative action on display.

  • Mikeyy888 on 24/09/2021 - 01:02

    Uhhh t could be an african school

  • Juddwah on 24/09/2021 - 06:00
    +1

    Aren’t we all of African decent?

  • Freaksta on 24/09/2021 - 07:16
    +8

    African heritage does not = black.

    There are a ton of white and mixed race people who have african heritage.

    Tbh the way I read it is they want someone who is familiar with culture and background that the kids at these schools have.

    • TK Deadwalker on 24/09/2021 - 09:16
      +4

      Exactly how I interpreted it. The role is there to help families of students who are of African descent make a transition to school.

      It would have helped if they were of the same background to help with communication, relations and may be beneficial to the families (eg: speaking in their own language and understanding certain customs and traditions).

      At the end of the day, this job is there to help people and the requirement is there to find the suitable applicants.

      Typically coming across something like this you would just skip it and move onto your next job, because it's not for you. End of story.

  • bobolo on 24/09/2021 - 08:53
    +1

    I'm a male and Fernwood gym told me I couldn't apply for a job as a PT because I've got dangly bits between my legs!! I'm so oFfEnDeD!!!!

    • Cluster on 25/09/2021 - 10:38

      Apparently all you need to do is declare you're female and it's all good.

      • bobolo on 25/09/2021 - 14:29

        That's what I told police but they still arrested me in the women's toilet! Ridiculous!!

  • bchliu on 24/09/2021 - 09:34
    +5

    I think the role title of "Transitions and Cultural Safety Officer" says it all there.. Not like you can exactly hire a non-African person to have the levels of culture required for this role. Normally these requirements would be rather discreet and hidden into the language requirement instead not to cause a stir.

  • branners on 24/09/2021 - 09:59
    +2

    This reminds me of the situation in which a mate found himself.
    He was born in Capetown to an American father and a South African mother, both caucasian. Sadly his mother was killed in a bus crash when he was 4yo, and at that point he moved to the US with his dad.
    He is literally African-American so when it came to go to college, he applied for scholarships, stating that as his heritage. When it came to admission interviews, there was a bit of fuss, but he calmly pointed out that he believed he qualified on the grounds stated in the fine print and if he was discriminated against because he was white, he reserved the right to pursue legal action.
    He got a full scholarship, studied journalism and has had a successful career. He is about 50 now and lives in South Dakota, which is about as white a state as you can find in the Union.

    • Autonomic on 24/09/2021 - 12:21
      +3

      This is one of those urban myth stories you're just repeating as your own.

  • misu p on 24/09/2021 - 10:23
    +1

    Why can't they just do it the normal way?? I mean everybody else does it very well…. advertise without any race/gender requirements and then just hire somebody white/male. It saves on a lot of discussions….

    /end sarcasm

  • Jacked on 24/09/2021 - 11:09
    +3

    I've run recruitment campaigns solely for female ATSIs. It was to promote the increase of females and ATSIs in a predominantly male, white dominated industry. One of the best programs I've ever been part of - seeing the significant difference this made to their and their familys' lives.

  • Geekless Belle on 24/09/2021 - 11:46

    @cookie2, are you even remotely qualified for the job?

  • bobolo on 24/09/2021 - 12:20
    +4

    This discussion is equivalent to calling discrimination if a white actor can't audition as a black slave in the movie '12 years a slave'

    • Mosher on 24/09/2021 - 17:48
      +1

      Robert downey jnr got the part in tropical thunder

      • bobolo on 24/09/2021 - 23:46

        they only wanted white actors to audition for that part

      • Cluster on 25/09/2021 - 10:37
        +2

        He got the part specifically to parody people trying to be something they were not.

  • baydoti on 24/09/2021 - 13:12

    You’re not, and were never going to get this job, so don’t worry about it.

  • payless69 on 24/09/2021 - 13:48

    We are All but we are Many! Given the fact that the RSPCA has 100 millions to blow sorting out humans will never stop!

  • LoserScott on 24/09/2021 - 15:03
    +1

    Australias more inclusive then America, or native countries, I mean any foreigner can buy in Australia regardless of rite(not so in Philippines or Thailand where you must be born) I love that Australia allows those segregated to build their own community because it's not like white people will understand right?.

    And given the issues Amsterdams going through from a radical process to eliminate migrants born and raised there towards removal(depending on how the government navigates things) due to biased opinions on foreigners changing their way of life.

    Well I'm half Chinese, so inclusivity is important, but allowing a market to Cater towards their own kind seems silly.

    Why because Australia's inclusive right???

    • [Deactivated] on 27/09/2021 - 19:51

      My Chinese girlfriend said to me "Forgive me but Australians are so stupid. The Chinese would never assist Australians to the same extent if the roles were reversed - NEVER!"

      • LoserScott on 28/09/2021 - 19:49

        Depends, did you ever receive some free extra Chinese food or bonuses in your meal while in Australia, if so better point the finger at the government.

  • Freitag on 24/09/2021 - 16:16

    I'm a white South African, does that count? My recent heritage is African as is my very very long term heritage.

    • trapper on 24/09/2021 - 17:02
      +1

      European's were living in South Africa long before any arrived in Australia.

      So you're more African than anyone here (non-Aboriginal) is Australian. :)

  • kaleidoscope on 24/09/2021 - 20:24
    +1

    i dont have a problem with that. Did you spend time finding out why instead of speculating though? It is entirely possible the role may have certain requirements.

  • Dack Smith on 25/09/2021 - 12:28
    -3

    Depends.

    However in many instances African Australians are far more preferable to other Australians, they work harder, are friendlier, and don’t have that bloody Karen supremacist holier than thou entitlement attitude you see in many 18 to 50 yr old wannabe loser bogans.

    I do think it’s great and we need to preserve many more positions for them to flourish and contribute to Australia.

    If I were an employer I would probably lean towards hiring African Australians and other minorities…. they are just so much better.

    People need to be less racist towards immigrants - Australia will always be a multicultural immigrant country.

    • Dack Smith on 26/09/2021 - 12:43
      -1

      Yup got negged.

      Australia is pretty racist on these things lol

    • Ughhh on 26/09/2021 - 17:17

      There's lawful discrimination and unlawful discrimination.

      Examples of racial discrimination in employment could include:
      -insisting that all employees speak English at all times, even during their breaks
      -not employing someone from a particular racial group because ‘those people are unreliable’

      When discrimination is not unlawful
      Like other anti-discrimination laws, the RDA sets out certain limited circumstances in which it is not unlawful to discriminate against a person on the basis of their race. However, the exceptions included in the RDA are more restricted than those in other anti-discrimination laws and only permit discrimination on the grounds of race or ethnicity in very limited circumstances.

      Special measures
      The primary exception in the RDA involves special measures. Special measures have the goal of fostering greater racial equality by assisting groups of people who face, or have faced, entrenched discrimination so they can have similar access to opportunities as others in the community.

      The job position OP has linked would fall under special measures imo. Your example seems to fall under unlawful discrimination

  • ameno on 26/09/2021 - 09:16
    -3

    Plain and simple, it's discrimination.

    But because it doesn't favour Anglos, it's all good.

  • lowlifesphere on 26/09/2021 - 13:07

    This isn’t some generic role. Seems like a good reason they’d want someone with African heritage to help troubled African refugees.

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