Garage Door Bump on Rental Property

kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 06:48
Last edited 07/09/2021 - 12:04

I moved (out) recently and there was a dent on the garage door that I did not report (my fault for not reporting within 14 days) from the place i moved out from, I suspected neighbor's guests but couldnt get the photo of the bumper of (one of) their cars). The dent probably happened about 2-3 weeks ago.

Got a call from the property agent, that the entire door will need to be replaced. Citing costs of bond or even more (bond is about $1300).

Is that fair? What is a fair ruling in this case? Agent insisted that since the property was under my name, at the end of day it will come out of my pocket.

Garage door still worked btw.

I checked with Consumer Vic, they said I could apply to VCAT disputing that I shouldnt have to pay for the garage door, is that worth it in this case?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Kaz0551 on 07/09/2021 - 07:19
    +2

    I had a garage door which was segmented, you could replace one panel instead of the whole door. If yours was similar, replacing the whole thing wouldn't be required… but if it were the one panel type… can't fix a bump.

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 08:47

      you could replace one panel instead of the whole door

      hmm i wonder if that is doable. the thing is that Ive moved out and the agent wasnt really open to repair options.

      https://i.imgur.com/UPhcBzr.jpg

      • MS Paint on 07/09/2021 - 10:27
        +9

        Garage Door Bump

        Yeaaah Nah. That's a friggin multiple dent and crease line impact dude.

        That's a pretty big hit. Probably quicker to replace whole door and price difference would be minimal.

        Was it definitely a car? Going by the crease line it looks to me like a kid has slammed into on a BMX and bailed prior to impact but what would I know.

        Those weeds are out of control too.

        • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:06

          Weeds were taken care off, the photo was actually for weed removal lol.

          I dont know what it was, but my neighbor has the exact same bump, so I am guess its one of his (or guests) cars. I did notice his inlaws visited the day or two before, there were 3 cars parked outside.

      • Drakesy on 07/09/2021 - 13:33
        +1

        Sorry but that's more than a single dent.
        If you did it then yeah it'll be on you.
        But if the neighbour did then you should get let off, proving this might be the hard part.

        Unfortunately factoring in labour and a new door i feel the agent might be on the money. Although if you didn't do it chase up the landlord for insurance and pay the excess.

  • Euphemistic on 07/09/2021 - 07:54
    +1

    Get alternative quotes for repair.

    Suggest landlords insurance should cover it, accidental damage.

    What’s your car insurance excess? Maybe you should drive through the door and claim on your car insurance.

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 08:48

      Suggest landlords insurance should cover it, accidental damage.

      that crossed my mind, have to check if the landlord has insurance. is it a must to have for landlords before renting out their properties?

      • robbyjones on 08/09/2021 - 15:43
        +1

        Why should the landlord be put out for damage that had nothing to do with them? It will increase their premium plus they will have to declare they have made a claim on insurance for the next 3-5 years. Landlords insurance is to cover damage that is not recoverable from the tenant, this clearly is.
        No, LL insurance s not compulsory.

    • mbck on 07/09/2021 - 09:09
      +5

      Yeah the landlord pays the excess, the insurance will go to op and ask to pay all the cost

      • Amaris on 07/09/2021 - 10:20
        +3

        and the landlord's premium will go up the next year

    • JimB on 07/09/2021 - 11:10
      +4

      Claiming on landlords insurance will not benefit anyone.

      Do you think the landlords insurer will just magically write it off? They will come after you.

  • thatonethere on 07/09/2021 - 08:21
    +3

    If you legit didn't do it just say you didn't do it and refuse to pay. Point out if you are in a shared driveway the likelihood on it being from someone else. If someone threw a rock through your window from the street you wouldn't be expected to pay this is no different.

    However sucks as it will damage the relationship with the REA.

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 08:40
      +1

      However sucks as it will damage the relationship with the REA.

      I think this is what is bothering me the most. I hate fighting with people (agents even more so as they get down and dirty picking the smallest of things in an inspection report to fix). So I wanted this (second) move-out to be as smooth as possible.

      Even went with their over-priced cleaners for the moveout clean.

    • robbyjones on 08/09/2021 - 15:47
      +1

      This is actually a good point, if it is a shared driveway there is a good chance the strata insurance will cover it. If, however, the garage is listed in your tenancy agreement as being your rented property then you are responsible for it. Not reporting it can be an issue for you though.

  • Platinumtelecom on 07/09/2021 - 08:44
    +1

    I am not sure they can enforce anything more that the bond. That's what the bond is for.
    I had something similar in a previous rental. A few scratches on the wooden floor and they wanted me to pay for the replacement of the entire floorboards in the house lol.

    I argued that it was normal wear and they let it go. (if you are building an investment property, why on earth would you put in wooden floor boards).

    But in your case, it's obviously not normal wear. They are probably going to take your money and never replace the door :-)

    • TimOfEastBNE on 07/09/2021 - 09:42
      +1

      They are probably going to take your money and never replace the door :-)

      which of course they are perfectly entitled to do. I'd argue they would be silly to do so, but there you go.

      I had an a/c issue in a rental unit, took me 3 quotes before I could find someone who wanted to do less than replace the entire outdoor unit. All that was actually required was replacing a couple of thermistors. Seems hard to get quality maintenance on investment properties.

  • try2bhelpful on 07/09/2021 - 10:14

    Talk to your local State Tenants Union.

    https://tenantsvic.org.au/

  • oscargamer on 07/09/2021 - 10:20
    +6

    If you did it, pay for it.

    If you didn't, then don't.

    You have of course, made it difficult for yourself, but whether you push back is a decision that you'll have to make, as you are a self-confessed softie.

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:05
      +1

      If you did it, pay for it.

      If you didn't, then don't.

      Thanks for clarifying, the agent made it appear that I would have to pay regardless of whether I did or not since it happened when I was the tenant at the property when it happened.

      My previous agent, picked a few normal wear and tear things, when I pushed back, she did another inspection and found more things to complain about.. so I want to be sure if i lodge a VCAT dispute

  • meowsers on 07/09/2021 - 11:05
    +4

    Depends on how old the door is. If it is an older property it would have a depreciated value. You are not obligated to do a for-new replacement. For example if it is an 8 year old property, then you are only responsible for the damage amount of an 8 year old door and only to the extent of the damage. If it still works as a door, then it will be a small fraction.

    Take it to VCAT if you want, they will issue a depreciated damages ruling and the landlord will be SOL. You won't and can't be responsible for the costs to take you to VCAT.

    The important thing is to file on the bond first to make it their responsibility to claim.

    And before anyone says anything, no you cannot be blacklisted for this. And if you need a reference in the future just pick a friend and say you were renting with them. Done.

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:09
      +1

      This would be my first VCAT dispute… there are costs involved for that? l need to look into that dang.

      The important thing is to file on the bond first to make it their responsibility to claim.

      How do I do that? The agency wont release the bond at this stage.

      • meowsers on 07/09/2021 - 11:09
        +3

        Are you currently in the move out process?

        Submit a bond form without all the signatures. This will place the bond into dispute and require that mediation begins.

        https://rentalbonds.vic.gov.au/Bond/Search/Search

        "Any renter with their name on the bond can start the bond claim themselves after the agreement ends if they choose, but it does take longer to get the bond back.

        Renters may want to do this if the rental provider is delaying the claim or there are problems getting another renter to sign or agree to a claim.

        Once renters begin the claim through RTBA Online:

        the RTBA gives written notice to the rental provider and any other renter on the bond

        other renters or the rental provider have 14 days to contest the claim and show evidence of VCAT proceedings, or the RTBA will pay the claim.

        If there is a VCAT application number then the claim will be cancelled (meaning the bond will not be repaid) and the renter who made the claim will be notified of the cancellation."

        • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:10

          Out already, got the call from the agent yesterday as the landlord inspected the property.

          Waiting for inspection results from the agency before raising any objections.

          Edit: thank you for the details.

          • meowsers on 07/09/2021 - 11:13
            +2

            @kehuehue: Okay, don't tip them off that you will do this or you will have to be the one doing the VCAT forms.

            So basically you submit the form for the full amount on RTBA, then the timer starts in 14 days. Then they have to file for VCAT.
            It will take MONTHS to get a VCAT hearing and will waste their time and effort, because the landlord will have to pay the agent to appear.

            You cannot be charged for this by law.

            Essentially you are playing chicken with them. This is particularly useful if the bond amount doesn't really matter to you as worst case you would just have to pay the damages, best case they can't prove it and you get your full bond back. VCAT is incredibly sympathetic and biased towards renters.

            If you file for the bond first, they have to do all the VCAT paperwork etc. All you have to do is show up via phone or whatever and only answer specific questions. Don't go into tangents. Don't get emotional.

            • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:20

              @meowsers: Alrighty, ill wait for the agency inspection report today before filing in on the bond.

              Cant thank you enough 👍

              • pharkurnell on 07/09/2021 - 13:51

                @kehuehue: Just hope you dont want to rent in similar area again.

                • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 14:03

                  @pharkurnell: Nah after having issues with two agencies in the same suburb, im out now lol

          • oscargamer on 07/09/2021 - 11:18
            +1

            @kehuehue: Applying for your bond back is not raising objections…..

            Apply today. Doesn't change anything, but it does clearly state that you believe you are entitled to your complete bond.

        • kehuehue on 08/09/2021 - 15:00

          Submit a bond form without all the signatures. This will place the bond into dispute and require that mediation begins.

          Do you mean search the bond, then click "Refund this bond" then select " Submit a claim without consent"?

          When I do the above, it takes me to a page and asks me to identify my name (second name being my wifes name), then asks if I have access to the email?

          • meowsers on 08/09/2021 - 15:02
            +1

            @kehuehue: Yes that's it.

            • kehuehue on 08/09/2021 - 15:04

              @meowsers: agent spoke to me and said VCAT would take 3 years to resolve the issue. well its still better than having to pay bond + more (she said one quote arrived and it was more than the bond) i guess.

              • meowsers on 08/09/2021 - 15:06
                +1

                @kehuehue: They are just playing chicken with you. Just file for your bond and let them deal with it. I wouldn't be surprised if she's already planning on claiming it first.

                • kehuehue on 08/09/2021 - 15:39

                  @meowsers: I already applied for the return. I got a call from the senior agent (I suspect they werent aware I had applied for it)..

                  first she said "its badly damaged and cannot be used" and that the no one will move in until it is fixed. And because I did not report it, its all my fault. That "I was hoping they wouldnt find out". I told her that is not the case and she is trying to set an unproven intent saying that I reported other faults which I came across.

                  I told her its not an emergency repair (door still opens and closes fine), and while I shouldve reported it within 14D, I did not because I was investigating who was responsible.

                  Long story short, she said its my fault (which I said was really unprofessional of her) and the money will come out of my bond, so I need to forfeit the claim. If not, then in the future she predicted the outcome would be me paying for the door + compensation because no one moved into the premises until it got resolved by VCAT. She said they would look into my credit history, past issues with renters etc and that the agency would put it forward as "renter did it, then did not report it to hide it".

                  I asked her if the landlord was willing to split the difference, because no one wants to go through the back and forth process, she said nope. Then went back to how its my fault - all because I did not report it.

                  Can the outcome really be that the landlord will not rent it out and claim compensation from me? Is that a scare tactic?

                  Edit: Sent me a letter (application to VCAT) with compensation claim of $2200

                  https://i.imgur.com/eYBjTgZ.png

                  • meowsers on 08/09/2021 - 18:47
                    +1

                    @kehuehue: Nah, the landlord has a duty to mitigate their losses (this means to re-rent the property ASAP). They will never win this. You are being lied to.

                    If it is such an emergency — that it renders the house unlivable (which it isn't) they should fix it. If it isn't then clearly they have no case if they are willing to wait to fix it.

                    Let them take it to VCAT. The tribunal will tell them to get stuffed. I would also mention the fact to the agent that they have a duty to mitigate losses. Because they have already offered to settle for $1304, it would be unlikely that their worst-case damages would change significantly in VCAT since the time to repair the damages wouldn't change.

                    "She said they would look into my credit history, past issues with renters etc and that the agency would put it forward as "renter did it, then did not report it to hide it"."

                    *Tell them (and CC the agency principal, as it seems the agent cannot write a coherent sentence in english) that you will be reporting this to Fair Trading Victoria. It's bullying you to not take advantage of your right to take this to VCAT.

                    *In summary, they are playing you for a fool. Stand your ground and don't give in. You have already made an offer in good faith that they have rejected, this will look good in your favour. For now I wouldn't say anything more. Let them do what they will do.

                    "It is paramount that tenants realise that the bond is their money, and that in order for the landlord to be entitled to any money, they must prove on the balance of probabilities that the tenant has caused loss of damage in breach of the RT Act or the valid terms of the agreement."

                    You can simply state that you became aware of it at the time you have reported it assuming that was the truth. Keep all conversations in writing. Your defence in VCAT is that you are not responsible because you did not cause the damage. The onus is on them to prove that you did.

                    There is no 14 day requirement to report damage, only as soon as practicable. There are many reasons it may not have been practical to report it especially if you were not aware of it.

                    http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/rta199720…

                    This isn't legal advice BTW.

                    • kehuehue on 09/09/2021 - 09:03

                      @meowsers:

                      You can simply state that you became aware of it at the time you have reported it assuming that was the truth. Keep all conversations in writing. Your defence in VCAT is that you are not responsible because you did not cause the damage. The onus is on them to prove that you did.

                      I have only told them on telephone that I noticed the damage around Aug-18, in my defense it was because I thought it 1) wasnt urgent as the door was still functional and given the costs to repair it 2) i wanted to find out who did it.

                      In my mind, they (the agency) wouldnt have acted any different if I reported this before. In fact I wouldnt have the VCAT (right) to back me up, I dont know. But thats the truth on why I didnt report it.

                      Btw, cant thank you enough for your help.

                      It seems so silly that they give me option A) forfeit bond for $1300 (out of their good will) or B) go to VCAT and pay $2200 if I loose.

    • muzzamo on 07/09/2021 - 11:31
      +1

      meowsers advice is spot-on.

  • bobbified on 07/09/2021 - 11:57
    +2

    I moved (out) recently and there was a dent on the garage door that I did not report (my fault for not reporting within 14 days) from the place i moved out from

    Were you hoping they wouldn't notice? 😜

    • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 11:59

      haha, but nah got too busy with preparations for move-out and I also wanted to confirm my findings with the neighbor so I could say with proof in hand that they are responsible.

      was hoping for the third car of theirs to appear so I could photograph the bumpers and say bingo - they did it.

      • MS Paint on 07/09/2021 - 12:28

        Why was a neighbour in front of your garage?

        • kehuehue on 07/09/2021 - 13:27

          Narrow driveway. House 3 had three cars. the third car was parked infront of my garage

          https://i.imgur.com/pOo5aMk.png

          • rambao9 on 07/09/2021 - 15:15

            @kehuehue: Is that a town house? This becomes a strata problem if strata looks after the "common" property.

            So Landlord should be flagging with strata to claim fix/compensation from the funds (which essentially they pay for) meaning they likely won't do anything and if anything, it is to stop people from running into other people's garages

  • Porker on 07/09/2021 - 12:39

    But even if the neighbour was the one that caused the damage, it's still the landlord's option to seek damages from you. In turn, you would seek damages from the neighbour.

    It's like a 3 car accident where the third car hits the second car, and the second car hits the first car in a queue. The first car seeks damages from the second car, not the third even though they were the cause of the crash.

    Presumably this is the reason why the REA is saying it's your onus to resolve.

    • meowsers on 07/09/2021 - 15:05

      No this is patently wrong. If the neighbour backed his car into the house and smashed a corner of it he would not be responsible. This is why people have landlords insurance.

      If a tree fell on the house he would not be responsible. You don't take responsibility for the entire house when you rent.

      External damage is much more difficult to prove that the tenant was liable. The burden of proof is on the landlord.

      • Porker on 07/09/2021 - 15:13

        Thanks for the clarification.

    • Philpski on 07/09/2021 - 15:47

      Not to go too far off topic, but need to call it out, the analogy on the 3 car pile up is not correct either. If the last car is responsible for the cause of collision then both cars 1 and 2 would pursue damages from car 3.

      If car 2 hit car 1 and then car 3 hit car 2, Car 2 is liable for the front of their own car and the rear of Car 1 and Car 3 would be liable for the front of their own car and the rear of Car 2.

      @meowsers is correct. The landlord would need to prove the tenant caused the damage. That said, would a clause like in a rental car agreement apply here? If I had a rental car that was damaged in a carpark, I would be liable for the cost to fix it whether I was responsible or not because I can't provide the details of who was. Does the same thing apply with rental properties?

      • try2bhelpful on 07/09/2021 - 15:55

        If a car ran out of control, and crashed through the wall of a rental house, I doubt the tenant would be held responsible. I think the owner would need to prove the tenant caused the damage.

      • Porker on 07/09/2021 - 16:48

        @Philpski Not sure if different insurance companies operate differently - I was in the 'car 2' situation and hit car in front due to car hitting me from behind. Front car's insurance came after mine, mine paid or at least managed the invoicing for the front car, and then went after car 3 for both mine and front car's costs.

        My car is a leased though, but presumably insurance is insurance.

    • lgacb08 on 11/09/2021 - 20:42

      This was wrong, i was in this predicament before and all I had to do was to prove that I didn't do the damage to vcat. The onus is on the one who make a claim.

  • Gronk on 07/09/2021 - 13:41

    I'd want it replaced too, that's more than a 'bump'…

    • kehuehue on 08/09/2021 - 15:47

      I feel for him and honestly sucks. The day I found out about the dents was a big downer for me as I knew what it would entail.

      Even me asking to split the difference is being too good, when its not my fault. But they want to go for the full bond, I dont want to be bullied in or schmucked around by property agents.

  • bradl822 on 12/09/2021 - 08:03
    +1

    Maybe send the photo to a few roller door companies, you can replace individual segments.

    Also how were your previous experiences with the agents repair process? You mentioned you had logged before. i.e. if they were quick and efficient I doubt you can reasonably explain not taking it to them previously. That may be the part that makes you look guilty unfortunately. This is also the perfect reason to have renters insurance, although I guess the excess may be excessive.

    Only other idea is photograph your car next to the bumps to show that they don't line up. Hopefully your car is a drastically different height or shape.

    Good luck

    • kehuehue on 12/09/2021 - 08:24

      I did take photographs yesterday

      https://imgur.com/a/A2RnxKF

      Also how were your previous experiences with the agents repair process?

      If I did not go with their cleaners or recommended service people (who charge crazy extra), they would find more faults on follow up inspections.

      So this time I went with their recommended cleaner since I was moving far away and couldnt be bothered coming back and forth to validate their claims about my cleaners not being good enough etc.

  • TimmyTims on 21/09/2021 - 13:21

    Damn, just read through this and the real estate is definitely stretching the truth to bully you into bending over and forfeiting the bond. I'm still waiting on my VCAT case from Jan 2020 so prepare for a long wait. That being said, you can email VCAT with their claim number and request the bond be released immediately to you in full due to the expected wait time. The LL claim will then only be for compensation for the repair but you'll have you're bond.

    The LL also has to prove on balance of probabilities that you caused the damage. If they go with only a quote to repair, they are very unlikely to win, they need a paid invoice to prove they are out of pocket. You'll also only pay a portion of the roller door if it isn't brand new (eg if the roller door is 8 year old and a roller door is only expected to last 10 years, you'll only pay 20% of the cost as the roller door only had 20% life left in it). These are all facts the REA conveniently forgot to tell you

    • kehuehue on 21/09/2021 - 15:33
      +1

      Their relations manager called again to harass me last week. I told her to let the case go to VCAT, I have my evidence ready. On which she asked for it, I asked if it would make a difference, she said no. smh. but Im obliged to give it to them…

      They are solely basing it off the claim that I "failed to report it, hence I was hoping it wouldn't be noticed" and that its my fault. When providing me with the quote, they forgot to censor out the landlords name, mobile and email. Out of courtesy I asked if I could get in touch with him to discuss it, they said do not. (I am guessing they want to be paid to represent him at VCAT). I'd rather take the photos to him, than the agency who seem unreasonable.

      The LL is just replacing two of the panels on the garage door but asking $2200 for it. The property was relatively new, based off google, the first rental result appeared in 2018.

      • TimmyTims on 21/09/2021 - 17:04

        I'd let it go to VCAT and ask for bond back immediately if they try to post pone it or set another date. Also ask for written reasons at the start of the VCAT hearing. This is a written list of the outcome and why the member (kind of the judge) made those decisions.

        Usually if they are just giving you a quote and not an invoice that says they have paid to get it fixed, I'd say they just want your bond and won't do the repair. Although because of Covid maybe they just can't get anyone out to fix it.

        I'd call the LL directly and offer $300 or so to settle it. If they agree follow up with an email as written confirmation. You can't get into the bad books of the REA anymore than you are already.

        May be worth sending the photos and measurements to some roller door repair guys. Then if you did need to pay, you would only need to pay the lowest price because the LL needs to mitigate the costs.

        If it was my place, I'd just knock the dents out with a hammer and live with a buggered door.

  • currentstick on 17/05/2023 - 10:01

    Have you had a hearing for this case yet? Curious to know the outcome!

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