I am looking into buy a used car and prefer to buy a European car namely a Peugeot, Skoda, Volkswagen or Renault.
However a couple of mechanics I have spoken to recently are telling not to buy European cars due to parts and servicing costs, time to get the parts etc. Is that really true?
another one for
yes
/thread
European cars can be cheaper if you lived in Europe
This. If you tell European person you drive BMW, Merc or Audi… they won't find this impressive at all. But tell them you drive Lexus and they will be like oooohhhhh….
Second that opinion.
If you go to Germany common car used for taxis are Mercedes.
Mercedes is considered in the same league their as average Holden or Ford is considered here. Their an average run about car used and bought and affordable by even low/middle class families.
Mercedes are so over rated here. Just because their German. Most Germans don’t look on Mercedes as special car. In fact quite the opposite.
yeah australians still seem to have the commercial from the 80-90's stuck in their heads in regards to german cars.
When i worked in germany, even having a porsche was not a big deal, but i must admit every weekend half my neighbours were out polishing, fixing and just about humping their cars
'… australians still seem to have the commercial from the 80-90's stuck in their heads'
Not in my experience they don't. The young and old peeps I know are all pretty united on the fact that now you would be mad to own any type of Euro car in Australia. As someone wisely pointed out above (a mechanic I think), the numbers actually on the road—or rather, not on the road—speak for themselves.
@GnarlyKnuckles: true maybe i was a bit hasty with that comment, it was mainly regarding the way some brands like bmw and mercedes are considered. Then again i live in an area where most of us are from overseas which may explain an unreasonable number of mercedes and bmw SUVs parked around the neighbourhood. I fell for it too and then couldnt believe the price of parts.
If you tell European person you drive BMW, Merc or Audi… they won't find this impressive at all
If you tell ozbargain person you drive BMW, Merc or Audi… they won't find this impressive at all
FTFY
@lubos this is not accurate. A Lexus (or most Japanese cars) are generally considered inferior to German cars. The difference is that in most markets, a BMW/Merc/Audi is considered a luxury car. In Germany, these brands span from everyday models (including taxis) through to luxury cars. An Audi R8 or a Mercedes Gullwing is not considered a generic car in Germany.
Having lived in the UK - this is true. Our family owned a SEAT (VW), Jaguar, Merc, Land Rover, Toyota, Mazda, Renault and now my dad there has a Lexus.
None of these cars had a major issue except the Range Rover but that was purchased like 10 years old.
My experience in the UK is that Japanese cars are seen as boring and with old tech - but can be cheaper (E.g. we baight a Toyota Yaris as they were offering interest free finance). They are seen as more reliable than French cars but not more than German brands. It is also my experience. The convenience features in both Japanese cars come years after the Euro brands and fuel efficiency is vastly inferior in most cases which is a big deal in Europe (here fuel is cheap and we don't really care about polluting the environment).
I'm not passing judgement on what the truth of the matter in terms of reliability is as I don't really know - the only thing in my experience is that most cars don't really break very often - which ever brand..I would just buy what you like after checking you are happy with depreciation and availability of parts/ mechanics.
in UK a Golf is cheaper than a Corolla
i feel like in AU, Golf's feel a bit more 'premium' but maybe only cos they cost more, not because they're better in any way
Golf used to be better than Corolla in every way except the reliability.
It was faster, more fuel efficient, handle better, bigger inside, quieter, sounded better, had better interior material and had better brand perception.
The new Corolla has caught up in a most of these areas where Golf stayed same or went back a bit even.
Yes, if you go to the dealers. I have a Peugeot, fantastic car and highly recommended. Never had any mechanical problems. But if you go to the dealer, expect to pay anywhere from $500-$800 a service, although keep in mind they usually have service intervals of 12months/15,000km. Independent you will pay much the same as any Japanese car. Peugeot have been making great quality cars since the T9 308 came out in 2014. In Europe they are just like the Toyota Corolla here and widely praised. The issue here is the local distributor is terrible, although at least they are starting to improve local parts availability. If you get a good deal on a well reviewed used model and have a good independent to service with, go for it. And a used Peugeot with 6 speed Aisin automatic paired to a tried and tested engine is a far better bet than an old VW with DSG, higher servicing and much higher parts costs too.
We've had a few, mainstream not "luxury" models, never had an issue. All bought new, all driven into the ground (300000 km ish). All chosen not because they were Euro but because at the time they fit our needs best, also looked nice. Never any considerable problems and never thought they cost much more to maintain. Would def buy again.
So what are we comparing, 25k Toyota vs 80k BMW? if you paying that much more for car, why worried about the cost of maintains?
Ie $13m Bugatti Veyron, the yearly oil change – which includes all of the other fluids to keep this asphalt assassin safe at 250-plus mph – you can expect to pay around $21,000 per year for the service.
So it eat Toyota for breakfast lol
Its look like simple Toyota drivers mind set, don't pay too much to travel from A to B and more you pay, more you invest, it should be less expensive to maintain? So we should just buy a Tesla :)
$13m Bugatti Veyron
Are they anywhere near that price?
My bad, around $1.3M not $13 LOL
Good luck.
Chiron, yes, absolutely.
But that's not a Veyron
@MS Paint: They don't make the Veyron. They haven't in over 5 years. It's moot anyway, it was never officially sold in Australia, obviously has no official service centres and isn't road legal here (both Veyron and Chiron). I know there is a Veyron living around Frankston/Mt Eliza area, but the owner is a douche who makes his own interpretation of road laws, that apply to everyone but him.
Yes. Also they are tested in Europe conditions^, laughable when compared to the climate that we have in Australia.
^Example. Action: Holden Astra, developed and tested in Europe. Parts falls apart under Australian weather conditions. Result: Holden no longer in Australia.
Yes. Also they are tested in Europe conditions
No they aren't.
Parts falls apart under Australian weather conditions.
Name one car that is developed specifically for our conditions. It is a fallacy they are tailored to specific climates. South Korean vehicles aren't specifically built for their relatively cold climate, for example. They usually fare fine here.
To be fair, all Holdens fell apart
All run of the mill holdens and fords were shit. cheap, nasty, trash
yeah my landlord's daily driver kingswood that he bought while he worked at the factory canteen is still falling apart to this day. never been restored and he got offered $25k for it recently.
I never understood this argument. European conditions are where steep inclines and sub zero winters are the norm. Unless you live near salt water, Australian conditions are mild.
Cars falling apart in Australia is because they are unreliable. They fall apart the same in Europe, but parts and labour are a fraction of the cost so noone makes a big deal out of it
This what I say when I hear people quote the "BuT iT'z bUiLt FoR AuSSiE CoNdiTiOnZ!!!"
Some of the most piss poor roads in the world reside in Europe. They have some of the harshest weather conditions on earth. Salt on the roads in winter with a metre of snow burying their cars over night. Real sub zero temps, down to -20 or more. Their cites are just parking lots for most of the time, or every drive out of a city involves 40 miles of up hill goat tracks. Not every road in Europe is an Autobanh.
In Australia, we have relatively good roads, no horrible months long sub zero temps. 80% of the years the weather in most parts of Australia is classed as "mild" and we get a few hot days over summer.
I would buy a car advertised as surviving places like Viet Nam, Cambodia, India and the like because I've driven in places like this, and these are the types of countries that have roads and weather that destroys cars.
If you have a VW that uses a timing belt then yes you will need to replace that Belt and usually the Water pump at the same time, every 5 years so that does make it more expensive than the equivalent Asian car. New VW engines use timing chains so that problem is avoided. I have not found service parts like filters and brakes any more expensive that other countries vehicles.
Skoda
This was a few years ago, so before capped price serving, I purchased a new toyota, and a friend at work got a VW golf.
I had $150-180 services, they had $500-600 services for the same thing.
True EU cars are generally more costly to service and repair when they break down.
I had $150-180 services, they had $500-600 services for the same thing.
Don't Toyotas and VWs have different service intervals? ie, 6 months vs 12 months?
At the time, my Toyota was 12 months, the same as their VW.
Toyota floats between 9-12 months for cars it seems.
I was kinda pissed and complained about it when my next toyota for the same thing went from 12 months to 9 months between models, just because the toyota mothership wanted more service dollars!
Toyota petrol vehicles haven't had 6m intervals since around 2017 for most of the range (Kluger till 2019)
forgot doesn't get insurance, someone hits them without insurance. Now what questions?
Audi Q5 owner.
$800 to replace front headlight, one.
$2000 to replace the front disc brakes.
There are more but just too painful to recollect.
Audi A4 owner.
Replaced front headlight myself: $40
Independent mechanic replaced front disc brakes: $400
Stop going to the stealership for services!
you are talking about headlamp (the lightbulb only), I presume he is talking about whole assembly (e.g. it was broken in a minor ding)
You were reamed something shocking. Shop around my friend.
That's what I love about Nissan, cheaper to import nismo breaks then local dealership prices
You need to find an independent mechanic.
you could be a merc owner..
10k to replace brakes after 3000kms lol .. bye bye merc…
Whaaaaaat?
Must be pair of SLR brakes.
Or the guy drives like Lewis Hamilton and warps his rotor after 3000 kms.
If you had to replace the front disk brakes you're doing something wrong. This isn't normal until the car is like 20 years old. Also the headlights.
Sounds like you had an accident rather than maintenance.
If you had to replace the front disk brakes you're doing something wrong. This isn't normal until the car is like 20 years old
Back in 1973 this was probably true. Rotors are replaced with pads these days.
You are comparing different brake systems. BMW rotors are consumable and need to be changed with the pads. I assume the same for Audi.
The braking performance is much better, but not necessary at local driving speeds
Audi S3 8V sedan owner, bought brand new in 2014 for 62k with 3 year free servicing.
Never had a single thing go wrong since apart from flat battery.
Still runs like new and I have always taken to independent mechanic since the 3 year free servicing ended. Last service cost me 120 bucks plus 35 bucks for engine oil I supplied.
I think I've done well and do not regret buying it for a second. People still say it looks nice.
You haven't had to replace the brake pads and rotors in that time? Would've cost ?$2000 - only guessing price based on what Merc charges for consumable brake replacement on the more sporty models.
Haven't changed yet and I was quoted around 800 from my mechanic. 2000 is a joke. Stealership price
Dealer prices.
Get OEM brakes done at any independent mechanic. Discs and pads normally cost me about $800.
If you can't work on it yourself, forget it.
Are European Cars More Expensive to Maintain than Asian Cars?
I just drive a white car. Not fussed about it's nationality…
I'm tyred of this race-ism
Oh so your going down THAT road …..
As a MY2019 Renault SUV owner, depends, but mine was thousands cheaper than alternatives in the current new market. What are you looking at specifically - the Captur? Servicing costs from a dealership or mechanic?
I have seen couple of Peugeot 508 Allures on carsales within my budget. Also Renault Megane. I won't to go to dealership for servicing obviously.
Peugeot 508 Diesel is a great car. T9 308, any of the 3 engines, also a fantastic choice.
James May from top gear laughed at the Peugeot's quality. My father lives in France. He said if I am to chose between the 2 i would go with Renault for better reliability.
You must go to Peugeot's website and stare in awe at their new offerings. The same improvements have occurred under the bonnet.
You are right about modern Renaults though, the electrical gremlins have gone away due to Nissan's influence and the engines are generally more robust compared to 2000s and early 2010 Peugeots.
The T9 308 was a revolutionary car for Peugeot. Research its development and the testing it went through. You will be surprised. And these cars are holding up very well..
New Peugeots are getting rave reviews. Very solid cars, just sadly overpriced, poorly marketed and clowns in Australia who don't have a clue continuing to rubbish them.
All I know is I got a great car for a great price and have saved a fortune over buying a Japanese car. I went from Japanese to Peugeot, do not regret it at all. Much nicer to drive. And when the time comes to upgrade, i'll certainly consider another one.
Just to add, I am looking to spend $10k-$12k, not looking for a newish car.
That should be in the post, as that has a huge effect on maintenance costs
How old are the cars you're looking at?
yeah this
i mean a $10-$12k car even if its 10yr old Korean car, carries some risk
a $10k 10yr old euro…. lol no
My view
Older European cars can be a money pit, my out of warranty golf GTI cost a fortune, $1k+ a service everytime.
New cars not necessarily. My Skoda Scala has a 5 year warranty and prepaid fixed price servicing at $1400. This was much cheaper than comparison cars, $2100 for Kia over 5 years for example.
Now at the 5 year mark you have the decision point, do you roll the dice and keep the car, or sell and get another on the same deal. Keeping the car may become expensive if things go wrong.
Right now my Euro is cheap and it's much nicer and high tech than equivalent entry level Korean cars
my out of warranty golf GTI cost a fortune, $1k+ a service everytime.
(Didn't neg) Dealership?
I hate to drill in the message that people should take their cars to brand-specific mechanics because I get shouted at, but that is the most personal, effective and affordable servcing option from new.
Nah it was a Euro car specific dealership. I learnt overtime that they were exy in general, especially when they wanted to charge me $95 for battery install labour :S
You gotta take it to a VW or German local mechanic next time, parts and labour is so much cheaper and usually faster. They're almost always more knowledgeable and can diagnose issues better, reducing the cost of fixes.
They are more expensive to own, but far nicer in every way.
Find a good independent mechanic and you wont get slugged as much.
I might catch a bit of hate for this but I largely agree. I remember the first time I drove a nice midrange Audi A4/A6, a BMW 3/5, Mercedes C or E class. They drive above asian cars of the same age and price category. They just do.|
I mean I dont like fwd cars and I do not like VAG cars but even I came to the conclusion an A4 cooking grade fwd turbo was impressive in just about every aspect AND it had the interior that kind of even shames BMW Mercedes… putting aside that fwd stuff that most people wont care about.
I wanted to hate it but the Germans got something there.
French and Swedish cars, lol no. I could never drive their shit ever again and I'd be happy.
I have to agree.
If I couldn't afford a Euro, I'd be fine in an Asian car but there's no denying that everything about Euro cars (except cost) is better.
I think a lot of people buy an old, cheap BMW and then complain that it's nothing but problems.
If your budget is Kia, you can't expect to get AMG.
As with anything, I am sure it is case by case. If German cars were so good, nobody in Germany would be buying anything else (hint: they do).
While many European models may be (often are) great cars, you are paying a massive premium. Add the Australia 'tax' onto mid range BMW/Mercs you have a mid-range car in the high-range price category.
If German cars were so good, nobody in Germany would be buying anything else
Err, that's like saying if Holdens were superior to and cheaper than everything else, most Australians would buy them.
There's always some who like something foreign and unique not offered elsewhere.
Err, that's like saying if Holdens were superior to and cheaper than everything else, most Australians would buy them.
If local Australian brands were significantly better and cheaper than everything else, I would certainly expect them to account for more than 50% of new car sales.
German brands (including Skoda) only accounted for 45% of car sales in Germany during FY2020*. Japanese/Korean cars account for more sales than Mercedes, BMW, or Audi, even with their higher import pricing.
That makes it hard to justify buying them here, given the premium over SEA or US alternatives. If more than half of German car-buyers look at local pricing, but buy international brands, why would we consider them here? Because of the 'status symbol' which they are to some people, of course. That's partly why they devalue so quickly, because they're not much use for status points once they are a few years old.
So, definitely nothing wrong with buying one for the reason above, or just because you're passionate about European cars. But they don't offer a great value proposition.
*Note that some non-German brand models are designed and manufactured in Germany (e.g. Ford Fiesta), so locally built cars might account for more than 45%. Funny that those cars don't have the same reputation here as a the 'organic' German brands if buying them is about German quality…
French and Swedish cars, lol no. I could never drive their shit ever again and I'd be happy.
What kind of old shitbox did you drive to reach this kind of conclusion? You couldn't possibly believe this after driving today's Renault Captur or Volvo XC40.
Can't comment on the XC40 but the Captur just reinforces the bad image - plenty of cup holders but it's made of cardboard, can barely top 110kmph and feels like it's going to explode. The auto gearbox is a mess. Might be ok for round the city in Sydney but I drove one around European motorways and I was fearful for my life.
@kbbargains: Ok but I'm talking about the all-new 2020 onwards Captur with the new 160HP engine, and new DCT gearbox. My car has the same drivetrain and it's great, everything is super refined. The last Captur ended up being mediocre coming up to a decade of sales. It's not really representative of the new Renault image of the past 5+ years.
@Techie4066: Yeah this was a couple of years ago. Not allowed to go to Europe for last couple of years :(
Going to be a hard sell still, in this country. I am sure the take up in southern Europe will be pretty good. Really over there most people aren't flogging them at over 100kmph on a motorway on long commutes, just bumping around some cobblestone streets. The models kind of blend together.
Polo, Golf, Captur, Mini, Sandero etc all kind of look the same under those conditions.
I do not like VAG
Speak for yourself buddy
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I do not like VAG..
I'm the opposite… I love VAG!
Generally Euro cars are more expensive to service and repair due to where the parts come from, this is particularly the case when using OEM parts (generally I find I get quoted x2 the price of aftermarket brands). At the end of the day if you are adventurous and capable of getting your hands dirty you can save money on the simple maintenance tasks that come with owning a European car (changing oil, pads, rotors, lights etc). An example I guess is that I got quoted to get front pads done at a mechanic for Kluger ($180) vs rear pads Mini Cooper ($385), (note both at independents, not even at the dealers). That being said I did the full set on both cars front and rear for just under $350 (for both cars) with good aftermarket parts and maybe 2 hours of my on time playing around in the garage.
So my tip is, if you want to get a European car and want to save $$$ learn to know your car intimately.
I think Mini is just about the worst example.
For some goddamn reason BMW are absolutely mercenary on Mini parts… like if you think BMW parts are expensive you aint seen nothin' compared to BMW Mini.
There used to be a couple of guys at work with Minis and even compared to the Mercedes we have, its unbelievable.
Maybe they just dont sell that many Minis here?
The worst part is the rate at which the pads wear out too. Once that happens on the Mini or BMWs you need to replace the sensors which come up at $20 a pop for the cheapies or you'll suffer the incessant warnings each time you start up the car.
from friends and rello's that own European cars - the main gripe is the lack of parts in Au, and often needing to wait months for that one part to be shipped from Europe. And that was even before the current stupidity the world is in.
I thought this is OzCamry :D
OzCamry with TRD stickers on it.
Something like Oz Camrolla
I'd say it depends. Generally, a car will be more expensive to maintain if:
. the parts are rare, harder to find or they basically cost more. Japanese brands like Toyota usually uses the same common parts in all of their models. Hence, they can easily mass produce those parts which helps reducing the cost. When you need them, they will usually be available straightaway and you don't have to wait for them to be shipped from overseas.
. more work or more skilled mechanics/specialists are required to service the car. I'm not a mechanic but I have heard that servicing European cars is very time-consuming, basically due to the way that their components are placed under the hood. Some components are not easy to reach and in order to fix them, they will need to remove many other parts. Thus, they charge you more for more labor hours.
. its components are made of unreliable/low quality materials.
. it has more tech, especially new tech.
. it has a turbocharged engine. If you have to stress yourself and work hard every day, you'll die faster. Same with turbocharged engines.
the parts are rare, harder to find or they basically cost more.
Yes, with the best exception being Renault electrical parts and some basic components which are shared with Nissan. Second hand and local parts supplies do exist.
I'm not a mechanic but I have heard that servicing European cars is very time-consuming, basically due to the way that their components are placed under the hood.
True, but the configurations have generally improved at least for non-German engineered Euro cars.
it has a turbocharged engine. If you have to stress yourself and work hard every day, you'll die faster. Same with turbocharged engines.
This is unique to turbo engines…?
it has a turbocharged engine. If you have to stress yourself and work hard every day, you'll die faster. Same with turbocharged engines.
I am not sure about this, in my experience, diesel engines like Mitsubishi 4D56T are both durable and reliable. I don't have any experience with petrol turbo though.
Not a like-for-like comparison. Diesel engines are built for high compression stress anyway (because that’s how Diesel engines work - using high compression to create the spark in absence of spark plugs). Also the turbos on Diesel engines are usually quite small to provide extra low-down torque with minimal lag.
Korean Cars are now the Japanese cars of the late 80s / early 90s
ozBargain car
- Camry
- Mazda 3
- Falcon On Gas
- High yield investment vehicle
Car is a depreciating asset unless it's EOL and something off it's head like a charger / falcodore with mad rims and a jimbeam sticker on the back. if so, it's a bonus for the return and earn empty bournan / vb cans in the back.
not sattire.
Your car mechanic, who works on cars for a living gives you sincere advice about a specific topic that he has great experience in. But that didn't align with what you wanted to hear, so you figured the best thing to do next is to go ask about it to a bunch of dummies on the internet. Great plan, champ.
It's because I can't afford the cars he suggests in the current market. For my budget and desired KMs more European cars come in search result than Asian. Hence, I wanted know about people's experience with cars of European origin, not just opinion. Some mechanics prefer Asian cars because that's all they people bring to their shops depending on where they live.
My old mechanic who specialised in Mercedes told me to buy Japanese cars because European cars were a money pit once they start ageing.
You have to pay to play.