Not a bad little freebie from Downies. Just pay the shipping. Good little collectable.
‘We Will Remember Them’ Silver-Plated Commemorative Medallion $0 + $4.99 Shipping @ Downies
972
Related Stores
closed Comments
Don't make jokes at the expense of our fallen.
Not cool.
Wait aren't you people always saying they fought so we could be free from the thought police? Guess not.
Nope, never said that.
Trash statements should be called out
They did also fight to enable people to stand up to foolishness
@mdavant: The funniest thing about all this rhetoric, is that everyone engaging in it seems to know exactly what "they fought for" and it always happens to line up with whatever arbitrary opinions that person holds. What a coincidence eh.
@Dandaman21: First world war didn't seem to be about much at all really. Respect for those who fought, but I'm not going to idolise them and just blanket abstain from criticism.
@gakko: 1st world war was a land grab amongst the european monarchy after arch duke ferdinand was assassinated …..australia decided to get involved due to the british connection …..country towns have their avenue of honor for WW1 ….. havent seen avenues of honor for vietnam, iraq or afghanistan ….. as media coverage outside of newspapers makes glorifying war harder .
@Dandaman21: Wow, is that your reply?
I can tell you something.
They did not fight so internet warriors could use their sacrifices to make cheap political points dependent upon retrospective analysis.
What a pointless argument.
@mdavant: "They did not fight so internet warriors could use their sacrifices to make cheap political points dependent upon retrospective analysis."
And yet, here you are.
Seriously though, thanks for making my point yet again, but I think it's well and truly proven now. You can stand down, brave warrior.
@Dandaman21: Which cheap political political point did I make?
You quote me saying that.
I said not to make jokes at the expense of our fallen. There is nothing there that is grandstanding.
There is a level if respect that should be offered to our veterans and to our soldiers that have paid the ultimate price
Something that seems to be lost on you.
@mdavant: You continue to declare yourself the arbiter of "what they fought for" and of course, it always happens to line up exactly with your views. If you really want to show respect, stop trying to commandeer their deaths to give merit to your opinions.
Getting mad at someone for making a joke you don't like has nothing to do with respect, just pointless virtue signalling at best, or oppressive thought policing at worst. Which of those do you think "they fought for".
@Dandaman21: There are some common sense approaches.
Eg racism, sexism, etc.
It is a moral duty to call people out on these.
I apologise that you find this offensive to you , but I am prepared to risk offending you to help educate people on things that should not be acceptable.
Sure, the poster can have their viewpoint, but to put it up in writing should not be accepted.
I would also like to clearly point out that it was you who attempted to be the the person to direct the discussion about what they fought for. It is clearly in black and white in the posts above.
@mdavant: If you have to strawman to make your point, that should tell you how much worth your point has.
"Sure, the poster can have their viewpoint, but to put it up in writing should not be accepted." Lol, that reminds me of the approach taken by a certain moustached fellow from the 30's, interesting you'd adopt his approach given your adoption of the soldiers he went to war with.
"I would also like to clearly point out that it was you who attempted to be the the person to direct the discussion about what they fought for. It is clearly in black and white in the posts above." Nope, I asked a question. Twice you've declared that you know what they fought for, twice to try and give merit to your own opinions. Also, clearly in black and white :)
I'm sorry you find this offensive to you, but I am prepared to risk offending you to help educate people on things that should not be acceptable (and I am the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable, as per your mate from the 30's).
@Dandaman21: It is very difficult to discuss this with you.
Your "guess not" means you are the arbiter.
There are a few very stark warning signs that someone is not worth having a discussion with
- Strawmanning
- Hitlerisms.
Yes u my friend are definitely not worth arguing with.
I stand by my original post and the defense of the fallen.
I believe my peers would agree wholeheartedly and I am glad you are not one of my peers.
@mdavant: Seems you don't know what straw manning is, which is strange given you're so good at it! FYI you did co-opt soldiers fighting twice to try and lend merit to your opinions, so it isn't a strawman. Also "hitlerisms" isn't the word you're looking for, you wanted Godwin's Law (the more you know).
Your peers in North Korea? Lol. Best of luck with your career in the thought police, someone as easily offended as you will no doubt be a valuable asset.
I believe my peers would agree wholeheartedly and I am glad you are not one of my peers.
Who are your peers exactly and how do you know they agree with you, wholeheartedly or otherwise? That appears to me to be as presumptive (and probably as fallacious) as the statements of people who invoke the sacrifices of our soldiers for their own ideological (often conservative or jingoistic) purposes.
Storm in a teacup really. I don't see how the "joke", as mediocre as it was, was at the expense of our soldiers, fallen or otherwise, or for that matter the millions of other soldiers and innocent citizens who died in a relatively pointless war - a war which eventually gave rise to Hitler and fascism as a result of the punitive conditions subsequently placed on Germany. Can you explain how it reflects or diminishes those people?
After all this is little more than a commercial product, not an official medal commemorating those who served. If you need a commercial medallion to remember and honour those who sacrificed their lives/health/youth/futures serving their country then there's something sadly wrong. Interestingly we know that at least some joined to fight because of the adventure. Little did they realise. Lest We Forget.
@[Deactivated]: My peers have a similar respect for our diggers.
If you are after a discussion about the post war treatment of Germany / treaty, sure we can go there, but we will probably be in agreeance.
@mdavant: Who are they? The vast majority of people have respect for our diggers, as well as many (but far from all) others who fought against them. That doesn't mean they agree with your opinion of the offensiveness of a sarcastic "joke". An insignificant poke at Morrison and Berejiklian on a deal for a commercial medal neither diminishes nor disrespects those people imo. Any incidental offence was grossly overstated.
@[Deactivated]: I said a similar respect for our diggers.
I have checked with my nearest colleagues today and they agree with the position taken on here.
I never quantified the offence. It is just not a topic that is cool to ever joke about, like racism and sexism.
@mdavant: What topic is that? You said : "Don't make jokes at the expense of our fallen." He didn't, and it takes a particular mindset to suggest otherwise, as I've already explained. I could just as easily take offence on behalf of our diggers at this product, but I wouldn't be so presumptive. Hopefully the makers donated a part of the profits to Soldier On.
People might reasonably claim that the freedom to make light of controversial issues (not that he did) is one of the things our soldiers may have fought to preserve. I can't be sure but we do know from history that Australian WW soldiers had a particular dislike for officious authority and stuffiness.
@mdavant: " pointless argument."
The one about an insult to a marketing spiv who uses the sacrifice as a prop in a self-serving homily then attempted to portray a query into the tardiness of his response to a situation as an attack on those he tasked with the task, or the one about your right and authority to offer instructions and limitations on the conversation in this forum, not as a request but as a direction. How ironic
As far as "Internet warriors" go, I suggest you step back and carefully examine the virtual pull-tabs and strips of quilting you've adorned your virtual op-shop cammo jacket with and consider what value [you] would place on them should they had been offered to you on your interface.
You at least offered a reason for your order, [surprise surprise, you didn't like it so decided to speak for many thousand] but appear sublimely insensitive to the notion that even were you physically present in a legitimate full general's uniform and we were arrayed before you, the only legitimate and responsible response from a civilian crowd would be an invitation to procreate somewhere other than where you are standing.
Were I to offer "Don't", it would be as a comment rather than an order - should a post be so horrendous as to spur me to the desire to utter such an order, I would follow the instructions of those who have both the authority and responsibility to do so and use the report button.
Not for you tho, eh, you cheeky little anarchist.
Don't issue orders to people you have never met when you have absolutely no authority to do so or mechanism for either validation or implementation of such orders, and expect to be taken seriously.
You may note the that my "don't" contains further illumination of my understanding of the concept you were attempting to convey [ I have the right and authority to tell you what to ], reasons to consider the validity of the statement and an opportunity to offer alternative logic.
@terrys: Haha.
I have no idea how to even attempt to have a discussion about your post full of personal attacks and vitriol.
I think I will just leave it at that and understand that it says more about you than me.
The funniest thing about all this rhetoric, is that everyone engaging in it seems to know exactly what "they fought for" and it always happens to line up with whatever arbitrary opinions that person holds.
Very true.
As a veteran I find those comments above disgraceful
The soldiers are more often mindless pawns, drunk on nationalism and pimped by the state - their crimes are petty compared to the real war crimes executed by men in suits.
Ah yes, the old "we wuz just doin our jobs" defence.
@Dandaman21: The Nuremberg defence.
Apparently the conclusion was that that was a valid excuse or something…
/S@Dandaman21: Funny how we prosecuted Nazi’s for just “doing their job”
Wish we would stop glorifying and romanticising war and soldiers.
In the end they are paid soldiers and know what they are getting themselves into.
Other then the Japanese bombing us have we ever entered a war to “defend” Australia?@zemphism: Nazis weren't tried for doing their job, and we didn't prosecute them. Do some reading about the wars this country has been involved in, why and at what cost, before you make a complete tool of yourself. Millions of those "paid soldiers" and civilians from countries across the globe gave their lives, sacrificed their youth and their futures fighting tyranny you clearly have no concept of so that you can sit in the safety and comfort of your home with quaint notions of how the world works. Oh and try to learn your language while you're doing that reading. Other than, not Other then.
The men in suits should send their children and offspring to war instead of sending our brave men and women, who joined for noble cause, to battle…
Be specific what war crimes?
He's trolling. Trolling a veteran at that.
Bet he would not have the courage or strength of character to serve the country. Just writes crap.
Disgusting.
@King Tightarse: Yep this is trolling at its worst.
I've reported to mods but they choose to ignore.
You wouldn't say that to a veteran in real life.
Just because this is the internet doesn't mean you need stop being respectful/thoughtful.I can see your comment above was a joke. It was a bad joke. Got called out so now move on.
War crimes ARE disgraceful, the word ‘crime’ in your sentence should spell this out for you. What does that have to do with remembering those who have fallen?
War is hell. Humans do desperate things for survival, do things they wouldn't normally do. You will not get it if you haven't experienced it.
I'm not condoning war crimes though.
As a non veteran - thank you for serving your country (us) :)
Afghans beg to differ.
Afghans love taliban
I can see that. What I can't understand is why you wouldn't also find some clever-clogs with a 20 ton press and a plating bath stomping out schitt-metal tat like tazo cards or shopping-trolley tokens also disgraceful?
Within the context of remembering those who fell, Dils joke was well out of line. Within the context of a bit of tat offered right at the time a serial failure is wearing the military like a soiled toga to distract from his total lack of any action on any urgent matter he had announced announcements about when an announcement would be made, and every pigeons come home to roost I found it apt and timely.
That serial failure was advised months ago of the risks to Afghan/i's who helped our troops, but as is his wont, did nothing. He doesn't hold a hose after all. I guess if they were pentecostals or Jenny said he should get on his bike they might have got a different response. They're now reliant on the honesty of the Taliban leadership that there will be no retribution (well maybe just a little on the side).
How dare he ask about the size and weight!!!
What was the purpose of some of these wars? Why Australia had to go and drop men into Gallipoli? Why America destroyed Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Australian soliders had to just follow wherever America went and commanded us to? We need to find the true purpose of war rather than just blindly following masses as sometimes the "m" is missing. Australian Defence Force Chief Angus Campbell confirmed war crimes were committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan. We had troops there for 20 years but as soon as troops removed the country is back to where it was in 2001, so what did we achieve from this 20 years war? I know the comment is going to be negged but that is fine. Truth does not change.
Truth does not change
Which statement is the truth?
The one where he said the thing about the stuff of course
Maybe you should pick up a book mate, because of the fallen you have the freedom to make such an ignorant comment.
Keyboard warriors won't understand what is it like to be a real warrior.
The only war they understand is between them and their mummy
Yes, participating in British or American imperialism is truly to defend our freedom. Rip to the fallen but why would invading turkey be anything about freedom?
"participating in British or American imperialism" - You do realise that Australia was (and still is) part of the Commonwealth when WW1 and WW2 happened. And you know that America are our allies?
"why would invading turkey be anything about freedom" - Turkey invasion in WW1 was to fight against the Germans and their allies.
The are complicated debates on other reasons behind wars other than survival (oil, resources demand, ideals) but nations sign agreements with other nations to support them in times of conflict. And some nations decide not too. But mostly those who cry war is bad or look at the atrocities Australia has joined in with wouldn't survive in a war or if Australia was invaded.
part of the Commonwealth
As a result of colonization and genocide.
Turkey invasion in WW1 was to fight against the Germans and their allies.
Which affected Australia in what way? We are an island in the middle of nowhere. Stop meddling with the affairs of europe/asia. We shouldn't be tools of UK.
if Australia was invaded.
Defense pact is different than offensive initiatives. If USA gets attacked on mainland sure, but we don't have to participate in USA's foreign adventures. What good participating in Afghanistan did for God's sake?
@DrScavenger: "As a result of colonization and genocide." - And? You can't change a fact.
"Which affected Australia in what way?" - Who said it affected Australia? It was under commonwealth directive.
"Stop meddling with the affairs of europe/asia." you seriously so delusional you think you can change the past? Ok Doc Brown
you attempt at making valid points in 21st century doesn't affect or fix what occurred in WW1 or WW2. People like you would have said " hey please don't get involved" when Hitler took Poland.
It was under commonwealth directive.
Americans rebelled for less.
you seriously so delusional you think you can change the past?
No, what's done is done. I just don't want Australia to be involved in other people's business in the future. Learn from the past, you know?
Why don't you ask Greeks, Armenians and others that suffered genocide from the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire?
@Jef Tino: yeah there are a lot of delusional 'everything is ok with a hug' people on here today, they don't understand the fact of war against tyrants and terrorists/governments
@UberIsCool: Or, you know just because we are fighting against something they don't automatically become tyrants or terrorists.
@Jef Tino: So? Balkans/Russians also did genocide to their Muslim Turks when they got their independence. Why didn't we side with them? And if you don't care about Turks, they also massacred Jews alongside Turks. Not to mention Greek scorched earth policy during Turkish war of Independence, why didn't we intervene then?
Or that even if you supported Greeks for whatever reason, British wanted the Istanbul and whereabouts for their own ie imperialism.
Almost as if history is different than black and white. We were to support imperialism, you can coat it however you want. Of course this doesn't justify being bad to our fallen, may they rest in peace.
@DrScavenger: .
Not taking any sides but my own.
History is written by the victors, and the mantra "might is right" has seemed to be adopted.Keep this in mind when thinking about defenders and invaders. Sometimes it is black/white, sometimes it's 69 Shades of Grey.
i’m interested in the freedom factor, WW1 for australia wasn’t about freedom, i can’t recall who was coming to our shores to enslave us, it was a land grab when the austro-hungarian
empire broke up , arch duke ferdinand was assassinated on 28th june 1914 , it wasn’t about freedom , it was a land grab amongst the monarchy who were all related …. unfortunately in war poor people go to fight, and rich people stay at home and make money ….. in WW1 you could buy your son out of conscription if you had enough money, and if you were wealthy and did join the army you became an officer ….. it’s hard to get people to go to war if you don’t glamourise it or you have conscription, and with newspaper in 1914 being the main media for information, it was easy for governments to create the narrative …. interesting looking at the war posters of the era ….. they made it look like the enemy doesn’t shoot back or had canons….even now the media is carefull to not show your own soldiers dead faces, blood, scattered in pieces, etc , more in a coffin rather than the face of a dead soldier ……these things are carefully managed or nobody will join the army .You use ….. a lot of …… period spacing…..
Australia follows because we rely on an unproven and uncontracted agreement that USA will save our skin if we get (profanity) on down here in South East Asia. This is 'our part' in keeping up appearances of that. We are not surrounded locally by western allies with the capability to really get shit done, not yet. Saying that I think SEA nations are friends and far from weak. Just different cultures.
And also because last time we tried to get out from under the US's thumb, they had our government dissolved and replaced with the opposition.
..Kind of shatters the illusion that have a choice in the matter when they do that.
What, when was this?
@Kangal: 1970's. Gough whitlam, labor government, was in power. He was hot off a bunch of 'socialist' introductions, like medicare and free university education. He started talking about closing Pine Gap, which is a US base in the NT that the americans use for maintaining control over the asia region. Its good for them, but makes Australia a big target in the event of a first nuclear strike by USSR, which was the fear at the time.
Next thing you know, he's dismissed by the Queens representative, using a technical power under the constitution. Worse, he's replaced by the Malcolm Fraser lead liberal party, as 'caretaker' government.
According to my aunt who was alive at the time, it made absolutely no sense. Just one of those things where you say 'But..but they can't do that' when you're behind the 8ball, and think the other side will play by the rules even when they're losing.
@DiLs What was the purpose of some of these wars?…….
Things are never as black and white as we see them. Some wars can easily be justified initially, others far less so. Do you think Australia should just stand back and let others fight just wars or should we contribute as best we're able?
Ignorance seems pretty set in stone too
gallipoli and australia’s presence in the middle east for WW1 was due to the need for oil, churchill in 1911 became first lord of the admiralty, at the time he was concerned about the german navy, to keep the british navy technologically superior, they needed oil so that the british fleet could move away from welsh coal, britain didn’t have the north sea oil fields at the time so churchill moved into the middle east during WW1 …. look at the map of the middle east in 1910, and look at it in 1930 …… australia was in the middle east for churchill oil supply not to fight for freedom.
Ironic time to be releasing nationalistic jingoism.
Nationalism is something to be learnt from the Chinese.
I dunno, you and your mates are giving some pretty good lessons in here.
Good you are learning.
@RSmith: You mean exactly what you did with your "good you are learning" comment? XD The lack of self awareness is impressive mate.
Nationalism: identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
I dunno, 'support Australia made' sounds pretty nationalist to me, not in a particularly bad way but still nationalist
Doesn't have to be. Could be patriotism. Actually quite different from nationalism. Sometimes not sensible, unlike nationalism which is almost never sensible.
@fantombloo: Patriotism is nationalism when your country is an immigrant country(USA/CA/AU) instead of a nation state(every country in EU except maybe Switzerland/Belgium).
@DrScavenger: I'm in AU. I am fiercely anti-nationalist yet have some patriotism, for a couple of places. That sorta doesn't marry up with what you describe.
@fantombloo: Yes? That makes sense. I don't know, were you disagreeing with me?
Nationalism is when you favour "your people" which are of the same nation. When a Spanish cares more about Spanish than a German and defend the interests of Spanish people it is nationalism. It doesn't have to be a bad thing. Nationalism is what binds the nation-states in Europe together.
Patriotism is when you favour "your country". Since immigrant countries like USA/AU tend to be a mix of different peoples/cultures/languages/religion it is hard to be nationalistic, instead, you are patriotic.
Americans tend to be pretty patriotic with "America number one" and even wearing flags as underwear.
And you kinda prove my point. You live in an immigrant state and are (mildly?) patriotic.
Nationalism is something to be learnt from the Chinese.
Chinese nationalism is currently filial devotion to an undemocratic regime. Is that the essence of being Chinese, as this regime claims? I somehow doubt it but others who know Chinese culture and history would know far better.
in the 1800s the opium wars in china, and then europe oppressing china and taking macau, hong kong …then japan invaded china, . china has learned the lesson and it’s that if you aren’t strong and can defend yourself you will be at the mercy of stronger powers …. and the current government makes chinese people feel proud in that china is now a military super power, china is building a space station, has sent a vehicle to mars …. it makes people feel proud and feel part of the country, they have achieved a lot in 60 years ….. india was more advanced than china 60 years ago but look at the differences now.
@garage sale: There's no doubt some of the current CCP belligerence is rooted in history, just as some western criticism of it is hypocritical. Can't see anybody arguing that they haven't done many excellent things for many Chinese people (wealth inequality is still a huge and increasing problem). Heck its total disregard for patents and worker rights has done wonders for many western consumers as well. Does that make their hacking of other nations infrastructure, their mistreatment of anyone who disagrees with CCP actions or policies, their control of legal systems, their spying on Chinese and others overseas, or their ethnic enslavement/cleansing okay in your mind? Nothing is ever black and white in war, culture, or national affairs, nor is our understanding ever comprehensive, let alone free from bias.
@[Deactivated]: australia planting bugs next to the timorese presidents office in2004 means australia spy’s on its neighbours, wiki leaks shows america spies on all its neighbours, and countries are always hacking their neighbours, it’s just some whinge about it and accuse others, and some invest in better security and keep quiet about it, after all who wants to advertise weak security “we’ve been hacked” well some people do but others keep quiet to save their reputation.
as pierre marion , former chief of french intelligence on industrial espionage, “in the economic competition , in the technological competition, we are competitors not allies” …. countries steal each other’s trade secrets ….companies steal each other’s secrets …. i don’t need to agree with the ccp, i just try to understand why …it’s a tough world, people want to feed their citizens, world has limited resources, and everybody loves to get stuff cheap …..even at the expense of others …..@garage sale: Most advanced countries spy on neighbours for national security purposes, that's entirely different to monitoring your citizens and threatening them, and others, including academics, who commentate on Chinese matters. No-one should condone the ASIS/Downer/Howard government's unconscionable act with the East Timor bugs. This was the same government which was all over Law of the Sea rights where they suited us. What is laughable, and a slap in the face for "democracy" in this country is that instead of ASIS heads, Downer and other govt ministers involved in the bugging being held to account we have a vindictive Attorney General pursuing one of the whistleblowers and a highly reputable lawyer.
In french, we call people like you "Collabo"
Any idea of the size and weight?