Combine Solar with Wind Power

LWaltervp on 03/08/2021 - 09:18
Last edited 03/08/2021 - 09:18

I have a 5kW solar system on my roof in Tasmania and was thinking how effective a small wind turbine would be for our winters.

I have seen small wind generators on sailing boats etc and thought that having 2 or 3 small turbines on my roofline would be good to feed into the one 5kw inverter.

All the turbines I see are thousands of dollars, require guide wires, separate inverters and batteries…. All I'm thinking of is maybe 3 X 200W turbines on the roof feeding power into the same existing inverter. Isn't that possible?? Why isn't that done?

A solar panel produces more or less electricity when Sun shines in different ways as a turbine would with different wind conditions, it all feeds a current into the inverter, so why can't I substitute a small turbine for a panel or why would adding a panel be any different to a turbine??

Feedback/suggestions?

Poll Options

  • 1
    Impossible
  • 2
    I've got that
  • 3
    Possible
  • 7
    Forget wind
  • 15
    Interesting thought
Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • brendanm on 03/08/2021 - 09:23
    +4

    What voltage do the turbines produce?

    What voltage does your inverter need on each solar string? (Normally 300v plus)

    What is the point of spending thousands of dollars for 600 watts absolute max?

  • Ozschmargain on 03/08/2021 - 09:32

    Wind energy is high cost and highly prone to failure.

  • MS Paint on 03/08/2021 - 09:37
    +5

    If it was a viable option it would already be happening.

    • Almost Banned on 03/08/2021 - 12:46
      +1

      Everything is only unviable until it becomes viable.

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:58

      I lived with it when i rented a rural property years ago…. Seemed to work great.

      If electric cars were viable why weren't they popular 50years ago? Technology and economy changes perhaps??

      But anyways this crowd is onto it I just learned;

      https://www.halcium.com/

      "If you already have a solar system, the PowerPod is designed to connect seamlessly into an existing system to provide an additional, diversified source of power."

      • brendanm on 09/08/2021 - 17:31

        That's called vapourware.

      • Jenny Death on 14/08/2021 - 01:20

        If electric cars were viable why weren't they popular 50years ago?

        Cabals effectively kept the electric car dead because it was against immediate maximum profits. Also batteries were heavier but ive always wondered where we would have been if there was a stronger focus on battery research earlier on.

  • ESEMCE on 03/08/2021 - 09:44
    +2

    Noise and Maintenance are high, generation capacity and reliability are low.
    There is no economic argument as your investigations have already shown.

  • JimmyF on 03/08/2021 - 09:49
    +2

    All I'm thinking of is maybe 3 X 200W turbines on the roof feeding power into the same existing inverter. Isn't that possible?? Why isn't that done?

    Yes possible to have solar and wind working together.

    No not possible to feed the 'wind' output into the solar inverter.

    The wind will have its own inverter setup feeding the AC grid, just like the solar does.

    • iDroid on 03/08/2021 - 11:30
      +2

      No not possible to feed the 'wind' output into the solar inverter.

      Not impossible, perhaps not practical or usual, but certainly possible.

      It's not a "anyone can plug it in" situation. It will required some engineering but could be done.

      Would it make sense to do? Probably not.

      • JimmyF on 03/08/2021 - 12:32
        -2

        Not impossible, perhaps not practical or usual, but certainly possible.

        errr but

        It's not a "anyone can plug it in" situation. It will required some engineering but could be done.

        The voltages that 'solar' string inverters work on, are nowhere near the same output voltages of DC wind turbines.

        So it is possible by you only if you go engineer a solution that doesn't exist to make it work? Cool story.

        Would it make sense to do? Probably not.

        So you're just here to argue?

        • Almost Banned on 03/08/2021 - 12:47
          +2

          Do you not understand the difference between 'impossible' and 'impractical'?

          • JimmyF on 03/08/2021 - 12:53
            -1

            @Almost Banned:

            Do you not understand the difference between 'impossible' and 'impractical'?

            hahaha thanks for the laugh.

            So my statement was

            No not possible to feed the 'wind' output into the solar inverter.

            So please as you are clearly a expert in this field explain HOW you will do this and make it 'work'.

        • iDroid on 03/08/2021 - 13:05
          +2

          So you're just here to argue?

          No, just here to say it's possible but likely not practical.

          I'm mostly agreeing with you, but clarifying that it's not an impossible task as you claimed.

      • This Guy on 03/08/2021 - 19:18

        Not impossible, perhaps not practical or usual, but certainly possible.

        Yes, it is impossible. You could not feed the wind turbine into a residential solar inverter without destroying something.

        Even in an industrial design with a separate MPPT and inverter, the wind turbine would feed the 'wind' output into a rectifier, not an inverter directly.

  • Ocker on 03/08/2021 - 09:53

    Council approval?

  • rektrading on 03/08/2021 - 09:54
    -1

    Take the cost of the setup and invest it in stonks or digital assets. There is no maintenance cost or stress and the returns are higher.

    • iDroid on 03/08/2021 - 11:30

      returns and losses are higher.

      FTFY

      • rektrading on 03/08/2021 - 11:38

        Pick any high-risk, high-return assets and hold them for the lifetime of the wind turbine. Compare the ROI at the end and see which one was the better option.

        • JIMB0 on 04/08/2021 - 07:42
          +1

          A dollar saved is better than a dollar earned as it is tax free.

          • rektrading on 04/08/2021 - 09:20

            @JIMB0: People spending $1000s to try and save a few cents is playing a fool's game.

            They should instead use the money to accumulate assets and then use the tax system to avoid taxes.

            Peter Thiel transformed a tiny Roth IRA worth approximately $2,000 into a $5 billion tax-free behemoth, according to an article from the investigative news site ProPublica.

            Guess what? Regular investors can also turbocharge their retirement account and navigate the tricky tax-rule straits, financial advisers say.
            https://www.marketwatch.com/story/you-would-have-to-tread-ve…

            • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:55

              @rektrading: I am afraid I've made a lot of bad choices with investments in the past, always having had lots of advice, from professionals, institutions, friends etc… My first major mistake was listening to everyone including the bank and real estate, parents and friends, telling me not to get a fixed mortgage at 12% because they'd never been that high and certainly wouldn't go up any more. When interest rates went to 20% I was besides myself and had to sell the house as I had no idea how many months it would last. At age 22 I didn't have any means to pay double the original mortgage. Sold the house 2 yrs after buying it, and goodbye first home owners help for the future.

              My solar investments has been brilliant! Past year I had no gas or electric bills worth mentioning!! Saved me $2k for the year, was very happy. My Bitcoin purse is filling up a bit again too…

  • chrisburnett on 03/08/2021 - 10:29
    +1

    Smart! I saw a program last night about wind turbines. A projection of potential power generated in different parts of the world showed they can make as much and often more power than solar over time as they work at night and during winter when solar isn’t so good. Having them work in conjunction can provide a great top up for battery banks. This one has a small footprint and amplifies the wind coming in and takes wind from and direction, even multiple directions at once. https://www.halcium.com/

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:02

      Excellent, perfect. For all the naysayers .. From www.halcium.com;

      "If you already have a solar system, the PowerPod is designed to connect seamlessly into an existing system to provide an additional, diversified source of power."

      That is something that could dribble into my inverter 'when the sun don't shine'. Here in Tassie we have good wind especially for our 9 months winter …. and even if it is only a kW , it will be a useful source as it will produce energy at peak hours and night most of the time in windy Tasmania.

  • tsunamisurfer on 03/08/2021 - 11:06

    I have a little about this because I will live in a slightly elevated area that has a nice bit of wind plus I am in Perth (3rd windiest City in the world).

    What I have read is that wind whilst an endless potential for energy is difficult to utilise.

    The area that you are is very important, there has to be constant wind, not intermittent. Also most councils will not allow it.

    I have seen videos of them working in America but they are often more rural type areas rather than suburban, but they work very nicely.

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:47

      I had it when I rented a rural home many years ago….

      But one OP found this for me;

      But anyways this crowd is onto it:

      https://www.halcium.com/

      "If you already have a solar system, the PowerPod is designed to connect seamlessly into an existing system to provide an additional, diversified source of power."

  • JIMB0 on 03/08/2021 - 11:14
    +1

    I don't think they're suitable for built up areas due to noise and needing to mount them high enough up so that they are clear of disturbances to the wind. On the other hand in a rural setting they would be great.

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:40
      +1

      I lived in a rural rental and had a little turbine in combo with solar on the shed. Only on windy nights could I hear the turbine a little - 30m from home, not on my roof! The homeowner kicked me out after 6 months of hard work to make the home beautiful because her boyfriend wanted to live there (now that it was livable!) :(

      But anyways this crowd is onto it an above post showed me!

      https://www.halcium.com/

      "If you already have a solar system, the PowerPod is designed to connect seamlessly into an existing system to provide an additional, diversified source of power."

  • Drakesy on 03/08/2021 - 11:24
    +3

    Wind turbines on boats have been out of favour due to noise and the presence of moving parts/mechanics that are prone to failure when exposed to the elements all day, and have been replaced largely with solar panels.

    If you can get it away from the house and are ok with the possibility of breakdowns then don't really see why you couldn't do it.

    I understand though that it is a good idea to generate electricity at all hours of the day, especially living in a windy area.

    Personally though, after spending a week on a sail boat with one of these whining away at all hours i'd give it a hard pass unless you could get it out of earshot (i.e. not really for urban areas, the last thing you want is your neighbour complaining).

    • RockyRaccoon on 03/08/2021 - 11:38

      Correct, might be necessary for those travelling round the world, otherwise not worth the hassle. In most cases on boats in the harbour, they were just stopping batteries from going flat.

  • Nugs on 03/08/2021 - 11:31
    -1

    wInD tUrBiNeS kIlL…

    Wind turbine syndrome. Proponents have claimed that these effects include death, cancer and congenital abnormality
    .

  • Seraphin7 on 03/08/2021 - 12:32
    +1

    If I'm understanding it correctly, the system you're referring to could generate 600W per hour. Off the top of my head, that effectively means it's generating ~20c per hour worth of electricity (round numbers) when operating at peak capacity. It seems like the overall business case here is not viable.

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:17

      At say 20c per hour, and say 5hrs at night at least than that is say $350pa, 5yrs is $1750…. I assumed $1750 would get me a little wind turbine. I mean little ones because of the noise/look/practicality… But https://wefunder.com/halcium looks like they are working on it!

      Also, I'm super happy to have no regular bills coming in for gas/elec since I changed over last year. It was about 10k by the time I put in electric hot water and replaced gas, but in 5yrs time I'm square. My mortgage principle increased from 240k to 245k but house appreciated by the addition so hey, I feel happy. And I still pay same for mortgage (and will be paid off in 2036 instead of 2035 at this rate). Adding wind was also just another way to be a little more effective for the grid at times when solar doesn't generate (no sun often means wind in Tasmania).

  • avoidfullprice on 04/08/2021 - 00:18
    -1

    why would adding a panel be any different to a turbine??

    Because you misunderstood the physics behind the two different types of electricity. AC vs DC output. Year 9 stuff.

    In a petrol engine car, you wouldn’t hook up the engine directly to the battery without an alternator. Your thinking is like “they are all energy, why would that be any different”

    coupling just the turbine generated AC electricity into your solar inverter, if practical at all, would involve a step down transformer and a high capacity capacitor in the simplest form at the inverter input. Not sure if a MPPT circuit is really required, but would take care of the filtered and rectified DC to mains AC conversion.

    converting AC to DC for the solar inverter to convert back to AC incurs a fair bit of energy loss. I don’t see how these turbines provide you with any return of investment at all.

    So like the person before said, sure technically possible, but not really provide the economical benefits you hope for

    • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 09:36

      Must admit I had not considered AC/DC but I'm just not that smart lol. I just noticed that solar panels and wind turbines were both rated in Watts and you could get similar voltages,… But anyways this crowd is onto it:

      https://www.halcium.com/

      "If you already have a solar system, the PowerPod is designed to connect seamlessly into an existing system to provide an additional, diversified source of power."

      • RockyRaccoon on 04/08/2021 - 20:13

        I noticed on extra issue you need to consider - a 200W wind turbine is the peak power you get just like your solar panels are at peak.

        Speed like 10 metres per second but the blades will turn when wind is 2m/s but wattage is lower. Plus if wind is fluky - that being it changes direction a lot then the output will vary as the turbine follows that around.

        Note if you locate your turbine further away from house there will be some drop in voltage if it generates DC current. (there is a base distance you can be before this comes into effect.

        Also many turbines shut down - to protect bearings etc if wind gets too strong. They have brakes built into the turbine, so if it gets real windy you get no power when it stops

        • Waltervp on 04/08/2021 - 22:38

          But so are solar cells, output depends on the sunlight… so I didn't think that would be a problem and could hook it up just like you would extra panels for just a little extra power when its overcast and windy. But being on the roof of my home it couldn't be a big turbine at all (just for noise alone), and the complication of it delivering AC instead of DC is a big issue (though many solar panels now come with mini inverters on board, so why couldn't there be a similar inverter on the turbine?)…. I wonder when we can get products like what https://www.halcium.com/ is working on.

  • Waltervp on 06/08/2021 - 10:27

    I think if I want to go this extra wind step it would mean batterie$$$. Then solar and wind can easily co-exist and charge the batteries. But wouldn't it be bad for the batteries to regularly be run down completely on dark days (we still consume 30-40kWhrs a day) or would such a system automatically revert to grid power when batteries reach a particular low?

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