Subdivision in Hornsby Shire Council <500m2

G K on 12/07/2021 - 23:04

Many people told that Hornsby Shire Council (Sydney) is very strict and reject DA applications for <500m2 lot sizes if min lot size is 500m2 per DCP.

I have seen at least 3 block in Somerville Rd, Hornsby Heights with < 400m2 block sizes.

Any experience from people in Hornsby Shire Council with successful subdivision for <500m2/each plot size where DCP says min size 500m2 ?

I am in a corner block with proposed lot size of 480m2 to 490m2 for each lot.

Any guidance will be appreciated.

  1. tips and tricks
  2. Consultants/companies that you have successfully used for subdivision
  3. Useful links/forums with Hornsby Shire council subdivision specific info/discussion
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Comments

  • morse on 13/07/2021 - 02:49
    +1
    1. Have a mate in the planning area at council

    or is that just a Gold Coast thing?

  • JimmyF on 13/07/2021 - 09:19
    +1

    Many people told that Hornsby Shire Council (Sydney) is very strict and reject DA applications for <500m2 lot sizes if min lot size is 500m2 per DCP.

    Have you thought about calling the council and asking THEM?

    I have seen at least 3 block in Somerville Rd, Hornsby Heights with < 400m2 block sizes.

    As above.

    • netjock on 13/07/2021 - 09:22

      Apparently OzB is where you come to for free advice that you can put on paper and give to anyone to prove it is feasible

      OP should move to Melbourne, they let yo subdivide into 200sqm blocks now. 600sqm and you can squeeze 3 town houses into it. People will still live in them whether they like it or not because it is the only thing they can afford.

      • mini2 on 13/07/2021 - 09:28
        +1

        More to do with the fact that town planners don't work for free and if you engage one to do the feasibility study on your behalf ie call the council and have a chat, it will cost you some dollars.

        • netjock on 13/07/2021 - 10:08

          Get a cheap sim card and call the council yourself, that might be worthwhile if you don't like paying for it. Maybe we get a "what is the cheapest sim card to use just for calling the council" forum thread.

          • mini2 on 13/07/2021 - 10:53

            @netjock: Or do what a true OzB would do, use your work phone and call during work hours.

        • pndl on 13/07/2021 - 12:03
          +1

          Not sure if you've spoken to a duty planner before. Their advice is good as nothing…. The answer you will get is probably, it may be alright, it may be not alright…. here is the form to submit a DA application. You'll want to see your own town planner / development consultant.

  • mini2 on 13/07/2021 - 09:27
    +1

    Propertychat or other property investment forums might reach a wider audience.

    I've heard plenty of old wives' tales that people's 490-495m2 subdivisions getting knocked back by the council.

  • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 09:30

    Holy shit. My house in on a 712m2 block and I thought that block was tiny. I almost have no lawn space at all. It must be a desperate Sydney thing to just buy any land you can, even if it's easily covered by an A4 sheet of paper…

    Also, ring the council and ask them.

    • one man clan on 13/07/2021 - 09:38
      +1

      712m2 is 4 houses in Sydney. My block is 130m2

      • pegaxs on 13/07/2021 - 12:54

        130??? I don't think my garage would fit on that block and leave room for a lawn.

        They would show you the plans for your house on that block on an A3 blueprint and let you know that it was 1:1 scale.

    • mini2 on 13/07/2021 - 09:43
      +1

      Gotta be YOLO/FOMO…

      https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-residential+land…

      • brendanm on 13/07/2021 - 13:33

        That can't be real.

      • pegaxs on 14/07/2021 - 07:44

        WT actual F?? How is the word "impressive" associated with 584m2??? And it sold for around $1.4million??

        That block is tiny and OP wants to subdivide their block into 2 blocks about 100m2 smaller than this one??

        This property bubble can't burst soon enough…

        • mini2 on 20/07/2021 - 12:53

          A couple of years ago, the missus' friend bought a H&L out that way for just a smidge under $650k to maximise the FHOG/stamp duty concession and we thought they were nuts. Maybe it's not so nutty after all.

      • G K on 19/07/2021 - 21:33

        https://www.realestate.com.au/property/9-somerville-rd-horns…
        A small weatherboard 2-1-1 house on a 503m2 plot was sold for 897k in 2019 in H Heights. Price guide for that house is now 1.1m

    • pharkurnell on 13/07/2021 - 09:54

      Its insane how small blocks are becoming…

      • mini2 on 13/07/2021 - 10:55

        More like it's gone full circle. Plenty of terraces occupying 120-180m2 blocks.

        • pharkurnell on 13/07/2021 - 11:49

          Dunno, back in the 70's acre or 1/2 acre blocks were not unusual.
          all the local waterfront blocks where I grew up were 400ft x 40ft

    • netjock on 13/07/2021 - 10:18

      My house in on a 712m2 block and I thought that block was tiny. I almost have no lawn space at all.

      If you built it out single story to maximum council will allow.

      Some of these 200sqm blocks are double story town houses with 2BR and 1 parking space a small court yard for out door space. Totally claustrophobic

    • brendanm on 13/07/2021 - 13:32

      There are houses here where you walk out the back door and basically run into the fence. One I go past every so often has a small kids trampoline in the backyard, the trampoline touches the gutters and the fence simultaneously.

  • Seraphin7 on 13/07/2021 - 11:38

    I have seen at least 3 block in Somerville Rd, Hornsby Heights with < 400m2 block sizes.

    Do some research on these and find out who the owners/developers/architects, etc. are involved in that … and ask them what might be possible.

  • bmxr on 13/07/2021 - 12:29

    The 500m2 minimum lot size is an LEP control, not a DCP control. Big difference.

    1) Go and see the Duty Planner at Council first.
    2) Then engage a statutory planner. You'll need the planner to help prepare the Statement of Environment Effects anyway.
    3) Informed by 1 and 2 above you could seek a variation to the controls under a Clause 4.6, the general rule of thumb has been a variation within 10% of the control, could potentially be sought with other sound justification. However, 4.6 rules and approvals are being significantly tightened of late.

    Clause 4.6 https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Policy-and-Legislation/Under…

    Those precedents of <400m2 on Somerville Road (there's only a couple) were developed prior to 2009 (and were probably approved under a SEPP rather than a LEP (detached dual occupancy perhaps?) so don't rely on them.

    Perhaps your fall back position is a compliant subdividision in to 2 lots rather than 3. Would certainly be faster and easier to get approval.

  • G K on 19/07/2021 - 21:02
    +1

    Appreciate all the responses.

    I am engaging an entity called Council Approvals (https://councilapproval.com.au) for an assessment. I was certain that free advices on OZB won't seal the deal, but I have seen that OZB forums are treasure troves of information if one can filter out the noise. Hence posted it here too :)

    I spoke with some friends of mine who worked in Councils, prior to posting and their feedback about Hornsby are the same.

    I will give it a go with Councils Approvals folks for a detailed assessment and find out what they recommend. At least I will know where I stand with a 470m2 and 500m2 proposal

    • mini2 on 20/07/2021 - 12:48

      How much are they charging you for the PPA? Someone else wanted $1800 ex GST and I thought that was a little pricey.

      • G K on 20/07/2021 - 21:37

        $1450 ex GST. I guess that's minimum one's gotta pay

        • mini2 on 21/07/2021 - 12:55

          Ta. Might hit them up and have a chat.

  • R G on 09/08/2021 - 18:16

    Hey GK, how did you go with Council Approval Group?

    • G K on 27/08/2021 - 19:44

      Hi R G,

      I was slow and just started the process this week. They will give a report within 2 weeks and book a call to provide guidance after that.

      G K

      • Starlight8 on 28/08/2021 - 23:06

        I've used council approval last year.

        I use to be in the hornsby shire but due to the council amalgamation I'm now Parramatta.

        I was hoping to subdivide as I'm on a corner block too!

        My land is 694sqm but my house is like 99sqm in total.

        Argh, I can't subdivide. So annoyed. There are 2 places close by which have similar specs as mine and were able to subdivide 😭😭😭

        • G K on 01/09/2021 - 18:42

          Hi,

          My plot is just short of 1000m2. So I thought I would check with town planners if it makes sense before lodging DA.

          Chances are that those plots were subdivided much earlier when LEP allowed subdivisions in smaller plots.

          In Hornsby Shire minimum recommended plot size is 500m2. I am trying to assess if it is possible to get permission for a lot size of 488m2.

          • Aman183 on 26/10/2022 - 23:56

            @G K: Hi,
            Could you please advice on the minimum lot frontage when considering a subdivision in Hornsby council.
            Thanks

  • Jjj888 on 28/08/2021 - 23:13

    Just what we need more beautiful old homes knocked down to build tons of square boxes with about 2 feet between each house… Just hope your car isn't too big

    • G K on 01/09/2021 - 18:38

      And you have seen this beautiful old home? Best if people do not rush to self righteous opinions.

    • G K on 01/09/2021 - 22:25

      "… Just hope your car isn't too big"

      Nope…it is not big….but not rusty ;)

  • bmxr on 11/01/2023 - 21:54

    @G K how did you go?

  • nswnotill on 13/01/2023 - 10:49

    All of this discussion, which results in implementation of smaller block sizes in suburbia turns me off. Research shows that homes on larger blocks in wider streets are more 'liveable' than those on small blocks. Suburbs with homes on decent size blocks have overall street temperatures up to10 degrees cooler in summer. Adding street trees assists in moderating the environment by adding shade as well.

    I have seen references regarding household air conditioner use in subdivisions with very small block sizes. These units cannot be efficiently used as they are drawing air from an air conditioner next door which is exhausting hot air into the confined space between the buildings.

    Altogether an indictment of local government councils and greedy developers who want to squeeze too many houses into too little area.

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