Internal Senior Position - Offered Same Salary by HR

• 

  dasher86 on 07/07/2021 - 22:18

  +19

  You need to negotiate with them or they'll screw you over. They are essentially seeing what they will get away with.

• bobbified on 07/07/2021 - 22:19 Comment score below threshold.
  • 

    mskeggs on 07/07/2021 - 22:35

    +7

    I’m not going to say bullshit, but I would certainly be aiming to capture financial rewards pretty quickly. Promoting people without paying them isn’t very fair.

    • 

      bobbified on 07/07/2021 - 22:47

      +4

      For corporates, internal promotions within the same area - such as "analyst" to "senior analyst" - usually don't come with significant increases. It's often because the top of the salary range of an "analyst" overlaps with the bottom of the range for a "senior analyst" - so even though it's a promotion, the pay is already within the range of the more senior role. It's likely that OP was already in the upper pay range of whatever his current role is/was. This is very common and seems consistent with what HR has explained to OP.

      Sometimes there are people in the bottom or middle range of an "analyst" salary and when they get promoted they might get a small payrise so that their salary falls within the "senior analyst" range.

      This is the reason I've seen so many people get promoted, stay for 6-12 months and leave to go elsewhere to get that significant increase. A lot come back after a while and they get put on a salary much more than what they left on previously. It's common knowledge that the easiest way to get a payrise is to leave and come back. It's a weird way for the company to operate and I've never understood why they simply let staff leave and come back shortly on a much higher salary. But that's the way it is and, admittedly, I've played that same game with the companies many times.

      • 

        CheapskateQueen on 08/07/2021 - 16:19

        +1

        yeh if this is the case, it would make sense.i.e. you're at the highest pay of the current level, and after promotion, you'll start at the bottom pay of the next level… but then I'd assume over time you'll move up "pay range levels".

        if it's a flat rate with no increase in pay range at the new level, then it makes no sense

        • 

          bobbified on 08/07/2021 - 16:39

          @CheapskateQueen:

          you're at the highest pay of the current level, and after promotion, you'll start at the bottom pay of the next level… but then I'd assume over time you'll move up "pay range levels".

          That's exactly how it works. But since performance reviews tend to happen annually, it takes a while to move up that more senior payband. There aren't many people who are patient enough to wait around.

          I've been around these large corporates for years and ever since the GFC, getting "recognised for your achievements" usually involves a promotion of title only or a payrise only. It seems quite rare to get both and if it is both, the payrise is usually only in the single-digit percentages. If you get a title change only, there's a possibility of a payrise in the following year's performance review.

          The only other time when there's likely chance of both a change to a more senior title and a proper payrise is if someone applies for an open role in another area within the company (different cost centre to where they currently sit) and gets that more senior role.

          Most people know and expect this and a lot of them simply take the more senior title to another company to get more money. I'm actually in that situation now. If I move (and I am actively looking now), I can easily get another $40-50K.

  • 

    Chandler on 08/07/2021 - 10:32

    #EXPOSURE

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  SF3 on 07/07/2021 - 22:29

  -4

  Also, often a "manager" role does jack all (e.g. look busy attending meetings)… so it could be right they are paying the same as a "doer".

  But, if you are doing the same as now + management responsibilities - you are getting scammed.

  • 

    bobbified on 07/07/2021 - 23:17

    +3

    often a "manager" role does jack all (e.g. look busy attending meetings)….

    If only it was that simple. I have responsibilities not only internally, but also externally to corporate clients. My job is to make sure things get done and it's my face/name on the line when things go wrong (or right). I often cop blastings left, right and centre all the time. Trust me, sometimes it looks easy, but it's not fun.

    • 

      SF3 on 08/07/2021 - 22:01

      Is DannyC your ghost account, you reply like an OP ;)

      My fallacy comment, was anecdote evidence, as “one bad apple spoils the barrel”, they spoil it for the rest of the managers. But a horror for the teams they “manage”.

      • 

        bobbified on 09/07/2021 - 08:31

        Is DannyC your ghost account, you reply like an OP ;)

        Are you telling me you don't have a few spare OzB accounts stashed away somewhere, like the rest of us do? 🤣

• 

  mskeggs on 07/07/2021 - 22:33

  +2

  Not trying to be difficult, but if this is a more senior position, you need to probably push a bit harder.
  If you are uncomfortable doing this, work if for 18 months and move elsewhere for a better pay packet.
  You don’t owe your employer any loyalty these days.

• 

  Muten-Roshi on 07/07/2021 - 23:11

  Maybe you can negotiate for higher super or phone allowance instead.
  Stay for 6-12 months and then leave if you're not happy still.

• 

  Orico on 07/07/2021 - 23:11

  +2

  During the interviews I did not pursue salary discussions initially and it was not mentioned to me during any period.

  Bro……………………always ask about salary. Don't wait for the cheapskate hiring manager to approach salary. They're looking to give you the bare minimum. Just ask!

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  tallkid123 on 07/07/2021 - 23:28

  Titles are very important.

  Because it's the easiest (laziest) way for recruiters to assess your experience level and suitability for an upcoming role in another company.

  The decision is yours, OP. However, if you take on this new role with no pay increase, then you know your time at your current workplace is limited.

• 

  andrek on 07/07/2021 - 23:30

  +3

  Unless the new role gives you a quick pathway to an even better role - why take on more responsibilities for no reward?

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  resubaehtgnolhcs on 07/07/2021 - 23:50

  +9

  If your company doesn't see your value, go some where that will …

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  FareEvader on 08/07/2021 - 00:25

  Always negotiate

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  Overclocked91 on 08/07/2021 - 07:02

  +1

  Negotiate, if that doesn't work out utilise the role and title for 12-18 months then apply elsewhere. You cant be expected to take on more work and risk without it being reflected in your pay packet.

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  TheBilly on 08/07/2021 - 07:40

  +3

  Don’t take the role without more money. Ask for a raise and give them reasons why you think it’s worth more money. Look at this as your first challenge to overcome in your promotion to seniority.

  If you take the role without the pay, then that is a reflection on you.

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  AndyC1 on 08/07/2021 - 09:15

  +3

  Go onto seek and indeed and find comparable jobs as the new one that include salary ranges and present this back to HR as what the market in your city are getting. I have been in the same situation and this worked for me as they were comparing Sydney (where I am)m to Brisbane… about a min 10% difference between cities.

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  RandomNinja on 08/07/2021 - 09:18

  +2

  As with negotiating pay rises, if you're able to provide your own evidence that the more senior role is being paid more in the market then you're in a much stronger position to ask for the higher salary.

  Have you researched the market for similar job descriptions (not titles as they can be misleading) and associated salaries?

• 

  alexlim2000 on 08/07/2021 - 09:43

  +1

  I think you need to have a proper performance appraisal and renumeration discussion with your manager -

  • You need to establish what the expectations of the role are, and what constitutes performing on-par vs overperforming, for both your current role and the senior role. Employers usually justify low initial payrises with the fact that you normally Exceed Expectations for a junior role, but either are below expectations for the senior role because you're still getting used to the role and new responsibilities, or meeting expectations if you are competent at the role.
    These performance ratings form the basis of establishing what the company thinks is worth paying for.

  • You need to understand if there is room for the pay to grow, or it is what it is. Most larger companies have a concept of a payband , as others have mentioned it isn't uncommon for next-level-up promos to have minimal payrise, but the expectation is of a larger payband.

  • Major payjumps only really happen when you move jobs. Internal promo's are very rarely major jumps (and is one of the reasons why HR prefers internal promo).

  • Finally, you need to figure out where you want to go in terms of career. It's too easy to be comfortable and cruise at the job we have, at the pay level we have. (Hence why you're considering just going back to doing your job and foregoing the promo). - Are you game enough to hustle as the senior position for a year or two, so you can jump elsewhere, or are you happy to cruise?

  • 

    Icecold5000 on 08/07/2021 - 10:58

    +2

    Major payjumps only really happen when you move jobs.

    Play the game. Accept the new job with the senior title and in six month start looking around.

    They got what was coming to them

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  orangetrain on 08/07/2021 - 09:45

  They not offering you a raise looks bad on them. Jump ship. If it's a title upgrade, then say yes and then jump ship.

  If you accept and stay, they're going to give you more work as your unofficial title is going to be pushover to HR.

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  rollin on 08/07/2021 - 09:50

  I think any promotion deserves some form of payrise. Its not a charity. So if it is a business you want to stay at long term then go back and negotiate a salary increase. However, it could be worth taking the role just for the title and then moving onto the next gig for that bumper pay rise if its possible.

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  Seraphin7 on 08/07/2021 - 09:52

  +1

  As ever, negotiate your position.

  This doesn't mean just "asking" for more money, it means building a case to demonstrate that a higher salary is warranted based on the role you have applied for. Note that your sole argument can't be that it needs to be more than what you're currently getting (it may be that you're being "overpaid" in your current role). It needs to be based on comparable salaries available in the market.

  You need to keep the conversation professional and respectful. Suggesting an alternative based on the above is fine and reasonable. If they knock back your proposition, you could ask something along the lines of "is there any room to move on this?". After that, it's take it or leave it. A professional and respectful conversation that leads to either acceptance of declinature is fine. "Complaining" that you're in someway "entitled" to a higher salary is not.

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  brad1-8tsi on 08/07/2021 - 10:17

  +1

  You need to have this same discussion with the hiring manager and HR and find out what the long term upside is (don't you get a performance bonus?).

  I've taken on a lot of "bigger job" roles for equal or less money but there has always been a long term upside of some description

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  StickMan on 08/07/2021 - 12:28

  Adding 'Senior' and not getting a payrise is an insult.

  HR has told you that they deem the salary band the same as your current band. They've tried to justify it by comparing to outside factors, yet ignore internal factors.

  You have all the info you need.