Large Tree Recommendation for Small Courtyard

SkMed on 27/05/2021 - 14:14

Hi all,

I just purchased my first home, a small 1 bedroom unit in Melbourne.

My unit currently has a big tree in the tiny courtyard (2m wide, 6m long) which is growing literally 15cm from the building wall. It's height is about 10m and its obviously the cause of the courtyard concrete slabs cracking and moving (no damage to the building/foundations that we can discern yet though thankfully).

As it's 10m tall, I've had to get a council permit to remove it which has been granted without an engineering or arborist report due to its proximity to the building. However as part of the permit conditions I've been asked to plant a replacement tree which will grow to give the same canopy height/cover.

Is there a tree I can plant which will reach up to 10m tall, provide decent canopy cover but without the roots being an ongoing problem so close to the building and with such limited space? The only garden bed is up against the building wall, so I assume I'll need to rip out the concrete and plat the tree as far from the building foundations as possible along my fence line, but this will still only be 1.5m from my building wall…

Thanks,

Home & Garden

Comments

  • GG57 on 27/05/2021 - 14:16

    Is it on your title or on strata property?

    • SkMed on 27/05/2021 - 14:18

      Its my courtyard, so its on my title.

      • GG57 on 27/05/2021 - 14:19
        +1

        I don't think the council can enforce a tree replacement of that size in that area, given the risk of property damage and encroachment over the fence line.
        Did they ask you to plant a replacement, or tell you that you had to?

        • SkMed on 27/05/2021 - 14:29
          +1

          The permit conditions are below:

          "Before the expiry of this permit, one (1) canopy tree must be planted at xxx, to replace the tree being removed. The replacement tree is to remain on the land unless with the written consent of Council and must be:

          a. Capable of growing to minimum mature dimensions equivalent to those of the removed trees;
          b. A minimum of 1.5 metres in height at the time of planting;
          c. Maintained to the satisfaction of Council.

          Please note: The replacement tree planted as a condition of this permit is considered a
          protected tree."

          I contacted them and explained the size/layout of the courtyard but they insisted I needed to meet the condition and recommended planting it somewhere else on the land (i.e. somewhere else on the Strata property) However there literally isn't anywhere I could plant iot on the common property even if I was allowed to and wanted to as its all concrete/parking for the units.

          They did say that I could plant 2 or 3 smaller trees to satisfy the condition, but multiple trees then reduce my actual usable space in the already small courtyard space.

          • GG57 on 27/05/2021 - 15:00
            +2

            @SkMed: If it were me, I would try to get some sort of professional assessment of the damage a tree of that size in that space would cause, and seek to find a compromise to plant a tree in another area of the council, maybe a public space.
            It wouldn't save any money, but it would keep your courtyard useable.

          • ESEMCE on 27/05/2021 - 16:44
            +5

            @SkMed: The key words here are

            a. Capable of growing to minimum mature dimensions equivalent to those of the removed trees;

            Plant the new tree in a large pot and it will be unable to grow to it's maximum "capable of" size, will not affect any foundations and will also not require any concrete removal.

            An Orange Tree as proposed below would be happy in a pot, and has the "Capability" to form a large canopy.

  • Drakesy on 27/05/2021 - 15:06

    A requirement for a 10m tall tree in a 2 by 6 metre courtyard is a bit rough, but preservation of leaf cover is pretty vital so i understand it.
    My go to would be a Chinese Tallow (8m on average), yes its not a native, but it is deciduous, letting in light during the winter and the roots (at least in my case) are non-intrusive. Pretty common verge tree in my area.

    https://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/fact-sheets/in-the-garden/…

    • SkMed on 27/05/2021 - 15:10

      Yeah agreed. I dont mind putting a tree back in and understand the preservtion of canopy/leaf coverage etc. if the current one was appropriate I'd be happy to keep it, but its causing damage.

      Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look. I think if I go back to council with some reasoning and extra photos/details about how small the space is then they might agree to a tree which is a bit smaller. My main concern is root damage at the end of the day.

      • Drakesy on 27/05/2021 - 15:13

        Yeah understandable. I think that's the reasoning for council's installing it within confined, paved, verge stpaces as the roots penetrate quite deep with minimal surface disturbance.
        Also FWIW my one has only grown to 5m, and can be constrained by placing it in a soakwell to ensure the roots don't go crazy.

      • resisting the urge on 27/05/2021 - 15:22
        +2

        Must you bother? It is sounding costly.

        Are the roots going to make things that much worse? If they did, would the impact be that costly? Often you can remediate the damage easily, and/or adjust local drainage to encourage root growth under the garden. Even replacing a supporting wall can be done by one tradie, some acroprops, bricks, etc, if it ever needed gets that bad.

        Maybe ask a tree expert (not the type that cuts them, but maintains them) before deciding your current tree needs to be removed. How much bigger will its canopy get, change shape, etc. What will the roots do (ins some they mimic the canopy, depending on subterranean water and nutrient sources)

        Pavers are cheap to fix, and you can upgrade the path at the same time to get a better result.

        Trees are good for protection from heat and sun in summer, house wildlife. Worth replacing with plenty of care knowing the aspect, the soil, the water-sources and every possible impact. Maybe yours is a good one but is just showing a few roots that can be cut back a bit.

        Maybe better to paint elsewhere on the property, or seek a special arrangement with council to plant elsewhere.

        • SkMed on 28/05/2021 - 16:01

          Sorry, maybe I don't understand you correctly, but are you saying dont bother cutting the tree down and just let it continue to grow and cause damage?

          • resisting the urge on 03/06/2021 - 08:14

            @SkMed: I am saying it depends how bad the 'damage' will become.

            Are you a builder? What would a builder do if it were their house, not one that they can charge to repair?

            Brick walls do not require brain surgeons

            If the foundation below is so poor that small roots can lift it, or large roots are causing major problems, or something in between, you can usually cut the bricks above the problem area, install a lintel, (use props if a large are necessitates it) and then remove the bricks below, the upset foundations and cut the roots out. Depending on how much the root is a problem you may even be able to excavate material from beneath it to remove upward pressure under the wall as it grows, i.e. allow is space to expand, roots are often prevented from growing deeply due to heavy clay, rubble or stone below, the foundation of the wall. Also have to think about what will happen under the floor too, of course- if that could be a problem too.

            These are all suggestions, of course they may be impractical depending on the amount of damage that has or will be caused if left alone. Sometimes you can get away with it forever or at least decades by just pointing a wall that has cracked, or moved a little.

    • lordsnipe on 27/05/2021 - 15:51

      I wouldn't be planting a deciduous tree which grow go up to 8m among other units .. your neighbours would love you when their gutters are full every autumn.

      • SkMed on 27/05/2021 - 17:31

        The current one is deciduous and it's only my gutters that fill up. I'm the end unit and I have a Council laneway on the other side of my courtyard. I'll likely aim to plant right on the fence line on the laneway so the leaves and roots become their problem too rather than my foundations/wall.

        • resisting the urge on 03/06/2021 - 08:18

          The law is unclear on letting roots impact neighbours instead, at best, (it just depends on the state you are in).

          In most, each owner needs to be careful about doing things that can open them up to action if things on the other side begin causing problems.

  • ihbh on 27/05/2021 - 15:34
    +2

    Grow something useful like an orange tree - won't get to 10m, but who knows, eh?

    Check if a climbing passion fruit tree cuts it.

  • BOGOF on 27/05/2021 - 15:44

    Syzygium (Waterhousea) floribundum (Weeping Lilly Pilly)

    Native with non-invasive roots. Grows to 10 metres high x 5 metres wide

  • Lunarboogie on 27/05/2021 - 15:50

    For what it's worth, I'm living in Malaysia at the moment and the locals swear by getting a monk to say a few chants before you rip the old girl out. They say that trees have souls and bad luck could come to you if you don't do it right.

    In say this, they also allow corrupt logging companies to denude Borneo so take it with a grain of salt.

    • BOGOF on 27/05/2021 - 16:15

      There must be lot of monks in Borneo?

      • Lunarboogie on 27/05/2021 - 18:42

        Nah, mostly just palm oil plantations which is sad. Did the Sandakan to Ranau trek recently, part of the 75th anniversary of the Death Marches, and didn't see a single patch of rain forest along the route.

  • iamherenow on 27/05/2021 - 16:48
    -1

    Plant whatever. Kill it off later before it gets big. Then put something appropriate for the size of the space in its place when the council no longer cares.

  • zathras on 27/05/2021 - 17:37
    +1

    Plant whatever you like that meets their requirements.

    But when you plant it, make sure you plant it in a large plastic pot, and bury the pot in the ground.
    That will stop the roots from spreading underground, and stop the tree from growing too large.

  • voiletmay on 27/05/2021 - 18:43

    Wow, I can't believe the council would insist on this. One of the trees in my yard is so big it is preventing me from ever getting solar panels. I have spent many thousands of dollars over the years getting trees removed due to the problems they cause. I would do the pot trick the person above me posted and also make it a citrus tree, so atleast you will get something useful out of it (if it survives that is).

    Whatever you plant, don't make it an umbrella tree. The roots get into your pipes and stop your toilet working. That is not a fun time LOL!!

  • 82norm on 28/05/2021 - 07:43

    Listen to radio 3aw or 2GB tmrw from 6am-7am. Graham Ross from BH&G can give you recommendations. That said, you the council really come and check? Does council stipulate when you must replant with a new tree, is there a timeframe? You can plant the tree and let it die, that way you met your obligation….does council stipulate the tree must survive….?
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for trees as long as their appropriate to the conditions and surrounds, but this council doesn’t seem reasonable, given the size of the area.

    • SkMed on 28/05/2021 - 08:24

      The conditions cover most of this. Permit conditions are below:

      "Before the expiry of this permit, one (1) canopy tree must be planted at xxx, to replace the tree being removed. The replacement tree is to remain on the land unless with the written consent of Council and must be:

      a. Capable of growing to minimum mature dimensions equivalent to those of the removed trees;
      b. A minimum of 1.5 metres in height at the time of planting;
      c. Maintained to the satisfaction of Council.

      Please note: The replacement tree planted as a condition of this permit is considered a protected tree."

      • 82norm on 28/05/2021 - 11:45
        +1

        Still seems to be a bit rough, especially about meeting minimum mature dimensions….
        Look for trees with shallow root, not with runners. Be mindful of any pipes. If there is a way to create a barrier of say a metre around the tree below ground level, this could aid in the tree and roots spreading. Again, I’d doubt very much council would inspect what you’ve planted later on.

  • Strikes on 28/05/2021 - 12:47

    Presuming the existing tree is healthy and you are really attached to; Why don't you just prune most of the long-branches by professional, then after you prune yourself once in 2-years. If you really like the tree and its benefits, don't cut and try to replce it something other tree (gamble act: as you never know, that new tree provide same benefits as the old one).

    • SkMed on 28/05/2021 - 15:59

      The branches arent so much the issue, its the roots which are the issue. As the tree is literally 15cm from the building wall. The roots have caused the concrete in the courtyard to crack/move and I have no doubt the roots are under the foundations already. I want to ensure the roots dont continue to grow under the foundations, or cause issues with my courtyard after I rip up all the broken/uneven concrete and replace it with something else.

  • Euphemistic on 03/06/2021 - 23:02

    Do the council have suggested species?

    Make sure you install a root barrier Plastic pot is ok, but there are better products available.

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