Builder Threat to Go to Council Re: Unauthorised Building if Do Not Choose Him as Builder

ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 12:19
Last edited 20/04/2021 - 13:27 by 1 other user

I requested a quote for a Deck. Who visited and advise me that he is builder and can do everything. I said ok, give me a quote.
We got a quote to do a landscaping from a builder A.
Builder A , gave us a quote around $100k. (landscaping, deck, additional must do from him pergola, carport - as he is builder)
Builder B, already provided a quote about $30k (which do not include deck which may cost $10-15k)

Builder A required us to go to him or else he will call council and complaint re: deck and car port which he thought - unauthorised build by previous owner.

Current carport/deck is about 20+ year old (owned by me last 5 years) - has roof and rain water/gutter provided.

Any help - what should I do? How to legalised my current construction.

thx

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Nugs on 20/04/2021 - 12:22
    +160

    ignore him
    .

    • SF3 on 20/04/2021 - 12:46
      +75

      And call the council to “asking for a friend” about such an alleged illegal structure. So at least you know your options.

      Even if you give A the business, there is nothing to say he won’t dob on you. Extortionist can’t be trusted. Therefore forget about A, you don’t know what other extortion attempts he’ll conjure up.

      • tomsco on 20/04/2021 - 13:23
        +77

        Yep. Why would you want to deal with someone that uses such shady tactics?

        • SF3 on 20/04/2021 - 15:55
          +6

          yep - exactly.

      • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 13:47
        +12

        Council says someone complaint about illegal/unathorised building :

        • Council go and inspect
          • ask owner to provide individual building surveyour report that property is sound/safe/comply with regulation.
    • ozbjunkie on 21/04/2021 - 12:06
      +25

      Ignore him, resolve the issue, and then give a name and shame review somewhere visible describing his quote as double others and involving threats and ultimatums unless you proceed. None of that would be false. So no problem, am I right?

      • capslock janitor on 22/04/2021 - 10:20
        +1

        Who is Builder A? I need to blacklist them pronto

    • HeWhoKnows on 21/04/2021 - 18:55
      +4

      Dont answer
      Dont reply

  • bobbified on 20/04/2021 - 12:23
    +26

    ha! Tell him to go * himself and laugh in his face!

  • holdenmg on 20/04/2021 - 12:23
    +126

    Complain to the HIA
    https://hia.com.au/about/Contact
    If you want to file a complaint against a HIA member, please send your complaint, including the details of the property concerned, your contact information, and the HIA membership number of the builder involved, to:

    Email: [email protected]

    • Jackson on 20/04/2021 - 16:04
      +34

      This, please do this so these a-holes get stamped out, and you serve the community that serves you. even better if you have written evidence of this behaviour, if not, try to get it

    • TheBilly on 20/04/2021 - 22:01
      +56

      That is like complaining to Woolworths about a rude customer in the store that is walking around with a Woolworths rewards card and asking Woolies to cancel their membership or discipline them.

      Builders are HIA clients and pay an optional membership fee to the HIA. It is not mandatory to be a HIA member and if anything, the HIA gives builders the templates and systems they need to have one over the customer. As a builder myself I do not understand how the marketing team at HIA have managed to make people think like they are some kind of consumer protection body that fights for the people against the big bad builder but they seem to have done a great job at this, but in actual fact it is the COMPLETE opposite.

      Other examples of this include the; Master Builders association, Australian Institute of Building. They are all just optional membership bodies.

      Who you want to complain to is the department of fair trading that is the licensing and regulatory body in charge of trades and builders licensing. If your builder doesn’t have a licence then all the better, stop talking to them and move on.

      Link to licence check below:

      https://www.onegov.nsw.gov.au/publicregister/#/publicregiste…

      • Jackson on 23/04/2021 - 11:13
        +1

        True, as someone who's worked at a peak body in the past (but in a completely separate field), they are far from the consumers friend. It (probably) doesn't doesn't hurt to complain to them as if they get enough complaints they (should) tell the builder to pull his head in as they won't be able to defend him, but it will be a slap on the wrist. Some parts of the peak body are just there to train and regulate, they do often make a lot of money from telling people how they need to conduct business. Once the peak body has told them to stop, they document this and are basically exonerated of their duty to defend them at all (not sure if the building membership goes this far but in the industry I was in where much more money changes hands they had a legal team that would actually represent the customer's/businesses interests)

        First and foremost everything should be documented and recorded and the threat to be captured in writing, then a case with fair trading opened, however if there's no money changing hands then fair trading will usually ask what remedy you want, and I'm not sure there's an option for "I want them in jail" :-) Hopefully there is a good option that goes further than "you didn't use them so just stop dealing with them".

  • Fergy1987 on 20/04/2021 - 12:25
    +22

    Give him a bad review.

  • AndyC1 on 20/04/2021 - 12:29
    +25

    Bad review that he tried to blackmail you on review sites.

  • TheBird on 20/04/2021 - 12:29
    +94

    Extortion is a crime.

    Give him a call, tell him there are some police here who want to "look over his quote."

    • Almost Banned on 20/04/2021 - 13:24

      Yep - just ask Suzy Taylor

      • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:11

        ironically also was on "the block"

    • subywagon on 20/04/2021 - 16:56
      +28

      100% Extortion is a crime. Do you have his threat in writing at all? Like a txt or email? You'd be crazy to go with him after that threat. Imagine all the crap he's going to pull during the work, if any work even gets done after payment.

      • Quantumcat on 21/04/2021 - 14:04
        +5

        What about 50% extortion

        • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:11

          how would that work?

        • brandt on 22/04/2021 - 14:31
          +2

          50% crime. Its directly proportional.

      • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:09
        +1

        if he is regularly extorting as modus operandi
        then he might be smart enough not to have a record in writing that can get him in trouble with the police.

        most likely he just said it over the phone…

        • subywagon on 21/04/2021 - 16:18

          That's what I'm thinking too, highly likely. They've probably did this many times before though. If OP could get in contact with others that have dealt with the dodgy builder they might be able to build a case.

          • capslock janitor on 22/04/2021 - 10:25
            +1

            @subywagon: would it be ok to record 'in-person' quotes on my phone?

            • subywagon on 22/04/2021 - 12:09
              +1

              @capslock janitor: You'd have to ask a solicitor, but I think you can't submit something recorded without their permission as evidence in Australia. I'd still record him though.

    • SF3 on 20/04/2021 - 22:19

      Bikies to fix him.

    • trapper on 21/04/2021 - 13:27
      +1

      This would probably be considered blackmail - which is also a crime.

  • Ughhh on 20/04/2021 - 12:31
    +27

    Builder A required us to go to him or else he will call council and complaint re: deck and car port which he thought - unauthorised build by previous owner.

    Get that threat by writing, then report him.

    • gtech on 20/04/2021 - 12:51

      I don't know how you do it ……. Sherlock

      • Ughhh on 20/04/2021 - 13:28

        But you're Bob the builder, you should know?

      • Amaris on 20/04/2021 - 14:48
        +30

        "Except a phone call from them"?

        You should've threatened to call the grammar police!

        • oz-dave on 20/04/2021 - 14:50
          +7

          I was thinking the same thing.
          His attention to detail is not great.
          Another reason not to use him as your builder.

          Hopefully he also gets your address wrong when he reports you ;-)

          • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:15
            +2

            @oz-dave: OP also had spelling error

            I think in the heat of arguments
            people don't bother to check their spelling or grammar

            even people on ozbargain has grammar or spelling errors..

            • khomeini on 21/04/2021 - 21:09

              @pinkybrain: I think the builder is an egg but I also make simple grammar/spelling mistakes on my phone.

              The last was a job application with "to whom it may confirm"… Found it after a few applications, sigh.

      • kiitos on 21/04/2021 - 12:53
        +2

        How did the conversation go leading up to this? It sounds pretty heated in the above.

        • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:18
          +3

          Probably OP stated simply that wanted to go with builder B etc..
          then threat was made
          then these text message etc..

      • Piranha2004 on 22/04/2021 - 09:05

        Lol hey thats my local council. Doubt they would take this "threat" seriously without proof

      • Serathis on 22/04/2021 - 17:06

        OP, if you have his builder license number, for this threat, you should lodge a complaint to Masters Builders Association too.

        he should have included his builder license in his quote. If he doesnt have one, well, means he is not a licensed builder.

  • jv on 20/04/2021 - 12:54
    +2

    Builder Threat to Go to Concil

    I don't think it is wise for them to go to Brazil at the moment due to the COVID situation there…

    jv on 20/04/2021 - 12:54 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • Pricebeat on 21/04/2021 - 13:11

      So the threat is self harm?

  • Chandler on 20/04/2021 - 13:02
    +7

    The above advice about getting the threat in writing and then reporting him is solid. As already stated, that is outright criminally illegal.

    But this point worried me:

    deck and car port which he thought - unauthorised build by previous owner
    Current carport/deck is about 20+ year old (owned by me last 5 years) - has roof and rain water/gutter provided.
    Any help - what should I do? How to legalised my current construction.

    A) how did builder find out deck & car port are not council approved? (is this information easily available to anyone? not concerned, just curious)
    B) how did you (OP) not discover that those buildings were/were not council approved when you bought the place?

    • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 13:54
      +4

      By look at it - It is strongly build but he guessed.
      He is local and he knows many in the local not approved by council.

      • brad1-8tsi on 20/04/2021 - 15:09
        +3

        He also full of rubbish.

      • mikekiwimike on 21/04/2021 - 09:15
        +2

        Has the structure been up for more than 7 years? if so you won't need to have records of it anyway. I would create reviews for each place you find his phone number (do a google search for both +61 xxx xxx xxx and 04xx xxx xxx) and post a review saying what happened to you.

        I had an Electrician try and do the same thing to me when I called out his pricing on a job he did for me….. It didn't work, by the way the council is looking for fixes to jobs unless it is dangerous and therefore you shouldn't have it anyway as it creates a risk of injury.

        Actually also had an ex do the same thing on work inside a house, at the end of the day what the Building inspector and the planning people stated at the inspection was not at all what I ultimately had to resolve ……. the inspection indicated that I would have to pull down 1/3 of the building) as it was illegal, the final report was to replace a smoke alarm and remove a fixing I had used to block an access. Don't be scared.

      • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:21

        was he going to rebuild the carport and deck?

        what is meant by this

        Builder A , gave us a quote around $100k. (landscaping, deck, additional must do from him pergola, carport - as he is builder)

  • garetz on 20/04/2021 - 13:09
    -4

    Are you sure you want to waste money on a deck ? Unless it goes all around the house even 30k sounds very excessive. It wont add value to your home either.

    • jv on 20/04/2021 - 13:12
      +5

      It wont add value to your home either.

      That is not strictly true.

  • Bid Sniper on 20/04/2021 - 13:27
    +1

    Ask for the blackmail attempt in writing

      • dizzle on 20/04/2021 - 17:42
        +3

        As an observer, I'm not sure that counts as proof, or even a threat. There's nothing about him saying he will not report it if you use him, or him threatening to report it. It's just him "I think it's best if I…"

        Unless there is something further up the conversation that implies a trade or a threat.

        • pinkybrain on 21/04/2021 - 15:24
          +4

          need entire conversation chain posted

          if op said i will go with the builder B
          then builder A said "Then i better report to knox council"

          would that be considered a threat?

      • Georgalli on 21/04/2021 - 14:08

        I reckon you should shout him English lessons

  • Heaps for Cheaps on 20/04/2021 - 13:43
    +7

    If he is this dodgy then he will be dodgy all-round, so catch him in a recorded phone call with a number of things he also likely does illegally like…
    His extortion attempt
    Undoubtedly he'll ask for more of a deposit than legally allowed, etc
    Get clarification on how much you save by paying in cash and him not having to declare the income

    So, when you get all the evidence, go to the police to file a report of extortion, then to the builders association in your state, then the tax office

    • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 13:56
      +9

      He also emailed - pay cash, pay less… lol
      https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/105722/88458/screensho…

      • No on 20/04/2021 - 14:20
        +42

        Reply

        I think I better go and call the ATO and let them deal with your offer of a cash discount have a lovely day.

        • timthetoolman on 20/04/2021 - 15:35
          +63

          Except a call

        • Yawhae on 21/04/2021 - 19:16
          +1

          Nothing wrong with cash payments, unless they are: A) Over $10K and B) Not disclosed to the ATO.

          We all know this dodgey bloke would disclose the payment…

          • ChatCPT on 22/04/2021 - 13:26

            @Yawhae: you clearly dont get it or youre just like the dodgy guy!

          • imurgod on 22/04/2021 - 15:00

            @Yawhae: They are id they are not declared and this is $100K.

          • IamEzza on 23/04/2021 - 18:13

            @Yawhae: he said he would do it cheaper for cash though, there is no reason to offer a discount for cash unless he isn't declaring it

            • Yawhae on 24/04/2021 - 15:42
              +1

              @IamEzza: Actually there is. Cash means you are paid right then and there. There is also no risk of someone reversing the transaction.

              I will often give a 5% discount for cash payments at the time of completion.

      • ozbjunkie on 21/04/2021 - 12:08
        +2

        Awesome - you got him.

        ATO, and then police of you have screen shots of anything that sounds like a threat or ultimatum, extortion is a crime as explained above.

  • deme on 20/04/2021 - 13:49
    +9

    c) report the (profanity) to HIA and the police, and install camera incase the asswipe tries to rob ya.

    • capslock janitor on 22/04/2021 - 10:29

      which cam system you guys recommend?

      • caspochek on 22/04/2021 - 12:48

        Hikvision.

        • khomeini on 22/04/2021 - 13:12

          Why that over say something like Swan?

          • Charmoffensive on 22/04/2021 - 21:56
            +1

            @khomeini: Because the cameras are actually good quality and not overpriced crap like swan. The software is also better and has more options.

            • khomeini on 23/04/2021 - 21:55

              @Charmoffensive: Thanks and I agree. I thought I had Hikvision but realise it's Dahua which is also another decent brand for cameras.

  • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 14:18

    If construction - deck and pargola is over 10 years old, does it still required a permit?
    Or older that xx years are exempted from permit? thx

    • redfox1200 on 20/04/2021 - 14:28
      -2

      usually has to meet current standards, not the standards of when it was built

    • Drakesy on 20/04/2021 - 15:47
      +7

      If they had a permit/approval for it 10 years ago then it'll be fine.
      If not, then the council can come and ask for retrospective approval or demolition. I don't think there's such thing as an exemption.
      You inherit whatever non-approved structures are on the land from the previous owner.

      It's just weather the council actually can be bothered to enforce it.

      Generally this is picked up by the conveyancer i believe upon purchase when they get someone to carry out the inspection.

      • dizzle on 20/04/2021 - 17:58

        From what I've heard in recent house hunting, this is not something that conveyancers search for unless requested for a specific structure.

        A quick google search also told me that it's not a valid reason to terminate the contract (At least in QLD you would need it inserted into the sales contract before it was signed in addition to the building inspection)

        "Since the standard contract does not protect the buyer against unapproved house structures, it is up to the buyer to protect himself.
        One option is to have a Special Condition added to the contract explicitly stating that all structures must be approved by the Local Council in order for the contract to be valid. A time limit can be specified as well.
        If you zero in on a property that has a pool, pool fencing, a pergola or other structures on it, you can check with the Local Council to see if they are approved or not. If not, you can inform the seller that you won’t be signing a contract until they have been approved."

  • dahax77 on 20/04/2021 - 14:26

    Stop worrying about this dick - ignore, cut off dialogue and move on by hiring someone else. Case closed.

    • McFly on 23/04/2021 - 09:53
      +1

      Stop worrying about this deck?

  • trustnoone on 20/04/2021 - 14:28
    +4

    Probably worth checking if you're actually compliant or not, as that may make you feel better and you can see where you want to go from here, but just looking at the maths its:

    If you go with builder A its $100k, if you go with builder B its $45K.

    $100k-$45k = $55K

    So even if Builder A is right, that gives you $55K to get your deck "compliant" plus you'll have a compliant deck (assuming its possible), and you get to go to police/fair trading or wherever for revenge justice.

    • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 14:42
      +4

      He is asking not a modifying but demolish and rebuilt the strongly built deck and carport.

      To get "compliant" he might needs to tweet a bit - like clean up the gutter, may need to connect to gutter line* (not sure).

      You do not need to demolish and rebuild? He is trying to rip off…

  • timthetoolman on 20/04/2021 - 15:36

    I might be wrong but after 7 years I don't believe the permits are still required?

    • djones145 on 20/04/2021 - 15:46
      +12

      most council have grandfather older rules. check with the council, use a pay phone, with no cameras around, when it's dark, wear a hoodie, use a voice changing app, wipe all finger prints from phone

      ask for a friend

      u should be fine

      • Switchblade88 on 20/04/2021 - 18:13
        +3

        "Yes, I'm anonymously calling about a very specific address that is of interest to you"

        "No, you definitely shouldn't investigate this address that I just told you anonymously"

        • Georgalli on 21/04/2021 - 14:11
          +4

          "Sir, except a visit"

          "tunnel noises"
          hangs up

  • Seraphin7 on 20/04/2021 - 15:57
    +1

    Plan A … ignore.

    Plan B … tell old mate to $*@& his mother, then ignore.

  • pharkurnell on 20/04/2021 - 16:00
    +16

    This is a job … for ACA! Tracey and her hidden camera - she loves dodgy tradesmen…

    https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/tell-us-your-story

  • ddhar on 20/04/2021 - 16:44
    +1

    I'm not quite understanding this. OP is looking to build a new deck and will anyway demolish the existing deck in question. The carport is 'collateral damage' should OP go legal but will cost less than the deck. The unauthorized bit seems irrelevant to me.

    Anyway, ignore builder A. They're clearly trying to extort you, OP. Keep records of their threats, whether direct or inferred.

  • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 17:08
    +2

    I am planning to build a new deck (bottom bit only) as top bit (pargola) is well structured with downpipes etc. Same he is saying that carport need to demolish and he will build a new car port.

    Why? fix it to make it council approved??

    Builder A says - I can not do work unless I demolish Pergola + carport (as construction not approved by council). Then he will rebuild If I do not go with him, he complaint to council.

    Just trying to make money !!

    • deme on 20/04/2021 - 17:27
      +24

      You will be banned from OzBargain if you chose builder A and then come back and complain here.

      • mccarthyp64 on 21/04/2021 - 14:27

        I will contact Scotty for that myself.

    • capslock janitor on 22/04/2021 - 10:33
      +1

      btw it's pergola

  • Baysew on 20/04/2021 - 17:40
    +22

    Tell him that Builder B has also made the same threat.

  • Switchblade88 on 20/04/2021 - 18:19
    -3

    I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say the OP isn't providing the full story.

    If I'm a builder doing registered works, including works that may not be compliant that I'm going to be responsible for, then I'm going to cover my ass. You want a quote? That's fine, but will also include remediation to that suspicious non-compliant carport that isn't registered with council.

    Since the OP's screenshot didn't contain the entire story, nor ANY evidence of

    Builder A required us to go to him

    Then I cast doubt.

    Besides, if I don't want the job (due to shoddy carports, or any other reason like a dodgy customer) then I'll simply quote well over the value to ensure the job isn't accepted.

    • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 19:54

      I have initially invited Builder A to quote for Deck ONLY (which may be worth 10-12k)

      https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/105722/88475/screensho…

      He market himself and said that I can do Artificial Grass, concrete and landscaping (quoted by Builder B) <$30,000. He market himself and added more stuff.

      Then, when he was leaving he asked me that do you need a quote and I said if you are thinking 100k - don't worry about it. He said look I meet all kinf of client and I do 10 quotes a day - it's just an opportunity for me.

      I said OK send me a quote.

      Now he think that I waste a time for him - because I requested a quote and not doing a job.

      • Switchblade88 on 20/04/2021 - 20:01
        -8

        Nothing in your comment has answered my suspicions. You didn't provide any evidence to confirm or deny my claims.

        Everything you claimed he has said is perfectly reasonable - "It's just an opportunity" is a valid response to someone who isn't actually interested in getting them to do a job.

        he think that I waste a time for him

        Your response has indicated this is true.

        • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 21:39
          +1

          Yes if he is not interested why he is threatening me to report to council because I didn't accept is 100k job and why the current structure is not approved by council? It's pretty solid, has gutter connected. If may required a few thing - which I don't know but it could possible to get surveyour report and submit to approve it.

          Also, I have told not to quote and he choose to quote me then blaming me that I am wasting time!! I asked you to do Deck ONLY that is my budget is for.

          • Switchblade88 on 20/04/2021 - 21:53
            -8

            @ca4cpa:

            why he is threatening me

            Again, no proof of this happening.

            Either:

            a) he isn't threatening you, and you're blowing this entire thing out of the water (nothing in your screenshots indicates a threat or blackmail)

            b) he is reporting the carport to the council because it is actually a hazard

            c) he's reporting the carport as standard procedure, as a mechanic would report a rego problem to the RMS or the police report an unlicenced vehicle; nothing personal against you at all.

            You keep telling us that your carport might require some work to be compliant with council - and if I have to choose between a licenced builder's opinion and a homeowner with a vested interest, then I'll choose the professional. If you know it needs 'some work' then a builder will definitely know what that involves more than you.

            Why are you so afraid of actually getting the carport compliant? Because it will cost you money?

            • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 22:47
              +1

              @Switchblade88: So every house you (as a builder) go for a quote- is it your standard process to find a loophole in the property - threaten them to report to council for any wrong thing identify? This is first time happen to me.

              I can confirm that both (deck and pergola) are safe and strong enough - not have any safety issue.

              Firstly, I am not worried about how strong it is. I am more worried about I don't know the rule re: coverage area - may need gutter (which is connected but may need bigger drainage) - may need something to comply rules in 2021.

              That is an unneccesary additional cost for me which only requires because he want to get the job with lots of $$$. Then need to call inspectors to verify property.

              If you got a car and required wiper blade to be replaced to get roadworthy - you don't ask them let's change glass too as those wiper blade touch glasses.

              You try to fix and get approved with minimum cost possible. I am sure it has life and it is strong enough for next 20 years.

            • ensanguined on 22/04/2021 - 08:17
              +2

              @Switchblade88: Found the builder.

        • ca4cpa on 20/04/2021 - 23:06
          +5

          He also commented that price is high because people like me waste their time!! Hello we are customer and Tesla has not gain 100% conversion rate.

          People shop around and if you are not keen move on !! Don't quote!!

          Full msg history:

          https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/105722/88479/screensho…

          https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/105722/88480/screensho…

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