Cryptocurrencies - Your Key to Financial Freedom AMA

I've been tracking the crypto space since Bitcoin was invented and bought my first Bitcoin in 2013 and has been using every cent of my savings to buy cryptocurrencies ever since.

I can now comfortably retire. Which other investment allows you to do that in less than 10 years.

Ask me anything about the cryptocurrency space, there's no such thing as a "silly" question. I think this goes without being said, but I'm going to say it anyway. None of what I say here is financial advice, I do not hold an AFS license, you should seek advice from a licensed professional before making any investment decisions. If you are making investment decisions from some random guy on the internet without doing your own research and due diligence, you should stop immediately!

There's all these controversy about property prices "surging" or becoming unaffordable, not for me, if you invest in the right asset, property is actually getting cheaper and cheaper. Property prices in Bitcoin terms has been decreasing and will continue to as Bitcoin increases in price at a faster pace. So to me, property is progressively getting cheaper and cheaper.

Update:

For those who would like to find out more about cryptocurrencies and why I think Bitcoin is here to stay and will be more valuable in the future, head over to hope.com and watch some of the videos. This site was set up by the CEO of MicroStrategy, Michael Saylor who's company bought an aggregate of approximately 90,531 bitcoins, which were acquired at an aggregate purchase price of approximately $USD2.171 billion and an average purchase price of approximately $USD23,985 per bitcoin, inclusive of fees and expenses as of 24th Feb 2021.

To those who think that I "got lucky" and was "fortunate", that's very far from the truth. I saw this coming, I knew that with rampant money printing by central banks, fiat currency is going to zero and it has been doing so for centuries. All fiat currencies have gone to the zero, in history, there has not been any fiat currency that didn't go to zero. So Bitcoin's rise is inevitable to me, hence I bought it. I didn't go as far as that family who sold everything to buy Bitcoin, but I did use nearly all of my savings to buy cryptos.

Common criticisms of Bitcoin

  • Its just like Tulip mania
    Bitcoin is nothing like Tulips, Bitcoin is a decentalised and censorship resistant network which enables values to be transferred across the internet at very low cost. The value of Bitcoin is the strength of its network and the fact that it has never been breach or hacked, which means unless someone steals your private key, your coins are safe.
    Tulips has none of these qualities. The only thing which Bitcoin and Tulips have in common is the fact they both went up in value very quickly. Even then there are differences, Tulips went up and crashed all within 3 years. Bitcoin has gone through at least 3 cycles where it has smashed its previous all time highs and never dipped below the starting point of the cycle.
    Bitcoin has recorded a higher year on year low every single year since its existence except for 2015.

  • The Bitcoin network uses too much energy
    This is just market supply and demand. People mine Bitcoin because it is profitable to do so. The Bitcoin network do not require so many miners, in fact it started with just one miner. The network can continue with just one miner, it adjusts as more miners enter and leave, this is built into the network. The high energy used by Bitcoin is a sign that it is valuable and people are willing to make the effort in participating in the effort in securing the network and be rewarded for it.
    Due to the profit motive, the energy sources used by Bitcoin miner are increasingly from green energy sources reducing its impact on the environment.

  • It is used for criminal activity
    Fiat currencies are used on a much much larger scale by criminals. Banks launder money for criminal, there's been so many scandals, and those are just the ones which make it to the media, I'm sure a lot goes undetected.
    Bitcoin is actually very bad for criminal activity, this is why they quickly moved onto privacy coins like Monero and Zcash. The Bitcoin blockchain is public and all transactions remain there forever. If a drug deal is done with cash, unless there's a recording device there at the time of the transaction, that drug transaction is untraceable. If you do a drug transaction with Bitcoin, that transaction will always be on the blockchain, all it takes is for law enforcement to tie one address to a real person, and the entire web unravels, so its not very smart using Bitcoin for criminal activity.

My Crypto mistakes and other pitfalls

I want to go over some of the ways I lost money in crypto over the years so maybe you can learn from my mistake

  • Scam websites
    In 2014, there was a website called Bitcoin savings bank, which promises 9%pa interest if I transferred my Bitcoin there. Very similar to what Crypto.com, Blockfi etc offer today, except they are scammers. Unfortunately, I didn't do my research and I believed them. I transferred 2BTC to their "savings account". Never saw it again.
    Nowadays, these sites are very obvious, they promise hourly returns, like 10% every 2 hours. This is impossible to consistently do, they are all scams, don't fall for them.

  • Double your coins scam
    This is quite famous, there are many variants, but essential it just entails you sending your coins and double or some very good return percentage will return. Its a scam, you will get nothing. Fortunately, I have never fallen for these.

  • Pump and dump groups
    These are almost always scams, there are more losers than winners. Yes you may win one time, take it and walk away, but most likely you will lose. I lost more than 1BTC in this. I'm still part of the groups to monitor, but I never participate anymore. Neither should you. They also have these VIP or "inner circle" groups, where they promise you early notification of the coin to pump for a fee. Don't fall for this. They might also have an inner inner circle group or VIP+, where they promise to take your Bitcoin and buy the coins for you, to maximize your returns. These are definitely scams, they will take your Bitcoin and then block you on telegram.

  • Fake wallet apps
    These apps emulate popular wallet apps and asks you for your seed phrases and private keys so they can steal your crypto. Treat your seed phrases and private keys as private. NO ONE should know, not even staff members of the hardware wallet company. Its like your online banking password, no bank employee should ask for that. If any app do, delete it IMMEDIATELY.

  • Leveraged trading
    I lost around 1 BTC (worth around $5-6k USD at the time). I tried to pick the bottom during the 2018 bear market, the Bitcoin price was quite stable and stagnant around the $5500-$6000k mark, so around Nov 2018, I thought that was the bottom and went in with a leverage long. The market went off a cliff dropping down to $3500. I got liquidated, lost the 1 BTC I deposited. I never touched leverage trading again. Its very hard to pick tops and bottoms, so now I just dollar cost average and periodically buy and hold. You don't need to worry about being liquidated if you do this, it will help you sleep better at night haha.


Mod Note: The user is not associated with TechLead YouTube channel.

Ref.

Comments

                  • @rektrading: It sounds like you're talking about some defi product, or defi that a company interacts with, and not the celcius lending product (with company liability backing your deposit)

            • @idjces:

              You don't get paid interest on your collateral do you?

              Yes, I do. Look at the link.

              https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/393946/92513/screensho…

              • +2

                @rektrading: Are you talking about celcius? because their website states

                "Unfortunately, no. When your crypto is locked as collateral against your loan, you are not earning rewards on it"

                • +2

                  @idjces: Yea, no rewards if they are held as collateral for a loan. If Bitcoin increases in price, it can free up collateral, they will allow ou to withdraw it. You can do so and earn some rewards from the surplus.

        • Where's this screenshot from? It's not Celsius' standard font so doesn't sound like them.

          Also not sure what you mean about word games - I clearly explained with an example.

    • +1

      That's the kicker here with low loan-to-values like 25% - losing interest on 4x the amount borrowed, which is important when the interest on earnings is 4-6x the loan interest to start with.

      Bitcoin drops by 20% and to keep the loan-to-value at 25% you'll be forced to either pay 20% of your loan back, or add another 80% of your loan amount as collateral.

      Paying 20% of your loan back - well hopefully you stil have some of the amount borrowed to do so, otherwise it will mean selling other assets at likely a bad time if BTC is down 20%,plus realising CGT on them which you're trying to avoid in the first place by borrowing against assets. Or worse, Celsius liquidates some of your collateral to bring the LTV back to 25%.

      When 25% LTV is a 1% interest rate, and 50% LTV is 8.95% and both handle volatility with margin calls rather than LTV, you know the 1% isn't as good as it sounds.

      • +1

        Borrow against Bitcoin is not a good idea if this is your first bull market.

        I have over 500 BTC, so it make sense to borrow at 25% LVR to get $1 -2 million out CGT free.

        For new investors, just DCA and hodl, wait for the next cycle before you do something fancy like this.

  • Just read the whole thread. Thanks for starting the AMA techlead and for trying to educate those willing to listen.

    I’m curious as to what your endgame is here? I mean your portfolio is sizeable, even if you converted it all to trash cash, you would still never need to work even if you lived a very lavish lifestyle.

    Do you have pursuits which you are now able to explore? Philanthropic goals? How would you envision spending your time if you retired?

    Just wondering as you don’t seem to be motivated by the need and want for more money or things. E.g. what’s the point of buying the dip for you - as it would not make any meaningful difference to your net wealth and much less impact your lifestyle? Or are there further financial goals to be conquered?

    • +1

      BTFD is how hodlers turn 1 coin to 10 to 100 to 1000.

      Reaching 🐋 status is how hodlers ensure they get generational wealth.

  • +1

    Thought I'd poke my head in this thread again to see what's happening. With Bitcoin crashing through $40k US just a moment ago, is OP buying the dip still? The fall is following patterns in equities of tech and growth stocks. So the dip is different this time because we are seeing liquidity dry up (fed tapering). And it's already being reflected in the ASX where money is moving to cyclicals and high yield / value stocks. TLDR: Less risk.

    I would definitely say you need to be more brave to be buying Bitcoin right now. I'm not implying that Bitcoin is going to zero just yet, but we are just at the beginning of markets transitioning in general, and therefore repricing / movement of a lot of assets.

    • -2

      With Bitcoin crashing through $40k US just a moment ago, is OP buying the dip still? The fall is following patterns in equities of tech and growth stocks. So the dip is different this time because we are seeing liquidity dry up (fed tapering).

      The BTC price wicking down to $40,000 had nothing to do with stonks or the feds.

      It's was a stop loss hunting + liquidation hunting sending the price down to wick out longs and back up to wick out shorts.

      Stop hunting refers to trading action where the volume and price action is threatening to trigger the stops on either side of support and resistance.

      When stops are triggered, price action experiences more volatility on the additional orders hitting the market.

      The volatility creates opportunities for traders to open a long position at a discount or pile onto a short position.
      https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stophunting.asp

      The only traders that should be worried are the ones that play with high leverage.
      https://ibb.co/FJdYD09

    • Yes, I've still been buying the dip with the first of my orders getting hit just recently, $39800 USD BTC and $2998 USD ETH.

      Buying when it dips is the best time to buy. I have a rule, don't buy when it pumps.

      If you compare the sharpe ratio of Bition, which is the risk adjusted returns, Bitcoin beats the ASX hands down. The ASX is boring, you really should be looking at US, European or UK equities if you are into equities.

      My super is all in crypto and it beat all retail funds in performance in 2021.

  • Hey guys there was a spreadsheet with different earn rates on different exchanges that was maintained by an Ozbargain member - is anyone able to provide the link?

    Cheers

  • What car does the richest person under 30Y Drive?

    https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1486415344604491776?t=OX…

    • +2

      Wow, Sam got fat. Great to see that this is also a problem with billionaires haha. I also got fat from working from home for 2 years, so definitely in the same boat. Unfortunately, I'm not a billionaire yet, but I'm happy with just being a millionaire.

      In the video, he says he's a vegan, I thought those are generally healthy food, how did he get so big lol, I guess over-eating anything will make you fat.

      Spolier alert He drives a Toyota Corolla haha. I agree, I will never buy a luxury car, unless its a Tesla. There's no point in paying the luxury car tax here in Australia. A Corolla is too expensive for me, I'm fine with a Yaris lol. There's no point wasting money on an expensive car, need to save money to buy the crypto dip!

      • SBF is peak performance.

        $22,000,000,000.00 is what peak performance looks like.

    • Although I don't agree with the anti-vaxxers, its great to see Bitcoin being a solution. Another point to show people who say, "Bitcoin has no use".

      • +2

        Anti vaccine mandate, not anti-vaxx.

        • -1

          Anti vaccine mandate is pretty much the same thing as anti-vaxx. There should be some vaccines which cannot be opted out, that's how polio got eradicated, it should be the same for covid. Vaccine mandates did not start with covid.

          • +1

            @techlead:

            Anti vaccine mandate is pretty much the same thing as anti-vaxx.

            No. People that are vaccinated can be anti-vaccine mandate. They can be pro vaccines but anti mandate.

            What people choose to jam in their body is a human right as per Article 5 and 18 of the UDHR. The same Declaration that supports Article 17.

            People that doesn't support Article 5 and 18 cannot support Article 17.

            • +2

              @rektrading: Vaccine mandates has been around for a very long time. The first can be traced back to 1809 in Massachusetts to fight small pox.

              Plus, no one is grabbing people off the street or going into their homes to jam things into their body. So no human right is violated. Those people just wouldn't be able to enjoy the same privileges as vaccinated people. That's the cost of being unvaccinated. So they can make a choice knowing the costs, its perfectly fine.

              No jab, no welfare, No jab, no travel. No one's human right is violated.

              • @techlead:

                1809

                People didn't have human rights back then. They do now.

                • +2

                  @rektrading: No one is forcibly jabbing anyone. Name one Western democratic country that is doing that? (China might be, but that's beside the point, there are other human rights abuses over there so..)

              • -1

                @techlead:

                No jab, no welfare, No jab, no travel.

                Article 22 and Article 13.

                • +3

                  @rektrading: No court is going to buy that. Its not a violation of human rights to have a vaccine mandate.

                  No Jab no welfare has been around for a while. There are mandatory vaccines which you must take before you can get welfare or your kids to be at school.

                  • +1

                    @techlead:

                    Article 2
                    Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

                    Basic human rights. Australia shouldn't talk about other countries if they can not do it themselves.

                    • +1

                      @rektrading: Its pretty widely accepted that we need vaccine mandates and they do not violate any human rights.

                      If you disagree, there are avenues you can take to change that. There's a federal election coming up, you can start your own party (United Australia party seem to have this issue covered, so maybe vote for them?), protest or challenge it in the courts. I doubt you'd get very far with that argument though. That's my 0c which is not worth anything, I have zero power or say in this matter. :)

                      • -1

                        @techlead:

                        BREAKING: Jason Kenney has just announced that Alberta is scrapping its vaccine mandate almost immediately, as of midnight tonight. This is a HUGE victory for the Freedom Convoy.
                        https://t.co/7wPydBUhU4

                        If the Canada-USA trucker vaccine mandate wasn't bad enough, now Justin Trudeau wants to bring in a mandate for truckers going between provinces.

                        Alberta will fight this every step of the way - including in court, if we have to.

                        📽 WATCH: ⬇ https://t.co/YvUTSgAj1t

                        The chips are falling.

                        It's up to people to stand up to what they think is right.

                        • @rektrading: Unlikely to happen here. ScoMo has it for all visitors entering Australia, do you think Albo will change that? Even the Coalition government in NSW has a vaccine mandate.

                      • @techlead: To say they don’t violate human rights when our government is forcing us otherwise we can’t work and go out anywhere, is the definition of taking away our human rights.

                        • +1

                          @bobwokeup: I don't think so.

                          Let's see what the Australia public say in the federal election.

                          • +1

                            @techlead: People will vote for what costs them the most.

                            48 Cost of living for you
                            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/681520

                            • +1

                              @rektrading: I didn’t see that post but that just confirms how selfish Australians are, which is true I see it everyday.

                          • @techlead: Of course you’d think that as you still use the term anti-vaxxers.

                            The result of the federal doesn’t tell us anything as both parties believe in the mandate and Australians aren’t the smartest cookies when it comes to voting.

                            • @bobwokeup: The United Australia party is fielding candidates in all 151 House seats and all states and territories for the senate. If they get a strong showing, there's your answer.

                              I'm flooded by their ads. They are anti vax mandate, anti lockdown, a stark contrast to the ALP and Coalition.

                              • @techlead: They shouldn’t even be allowed to be a political party. Reminds me of Donald Trump.

                                • @bobwokeup: They do remind of Trump, but I think they should be allowed as a political party.

                                  • @techlead: Yeah good point I guess my point was they shouldn’t be allowed to run the country like Trump did. I know it’s up to us as voters but everything about them is just wrong.

                              • +1

                                @techlead: I completely disagree with your view that vaccine mandates aren't a human rights issue but I agree that it could be resolved by an election, however the Australian public has no idea of the power it holds over politicians so therefore they get free reign to do whatever they, and their corporate owners, want to do.

                                And no, the United Australia party is not a real option.

                                • @AncientWisdom: Vaccine mandates are nothing new. Australia introduced No jab No pay in 2017 by a Coalition government. Why hasn't people brought up the human rights issue back then?

                                  I do agree with you on the United Australia party. I usually like to give the minor parties funding by putting either ALP or Liberal last or second last depending on who I want to vote for between them, but minor parties ahead of both ALP and Liberal. This time I'm going to put United Australia party below ALP and Liberal in my House of Reps preferences.

                                  • -1

                                    @techlead: The fact that it wasn't brought up doesn't mean that it wasn't an issue, an in fact I personally know people that were furious with it, but it only affected a small minority so everybody else shrugged and went their way.

                                    There is still a very big difference between no subsidy for childcare and not being able to work or being denied freedom of movement.

                                    Unfortunately history is full of evidence to show that once governments achieve certain levels of control it's very rare they relinquish it.

                                    • @AncientWisdom:

                                      Unfortunately history is full of evidence to show that once governments achieve certain levels of control it's very rare they relinquish it.

                                      Totally agree with that.

                                      The Sydney harbour bridge was supposed to have a toll until it was paid off. It was paid off years ago, now they want to toll it both ways lol

      • +2

        Who knew decentralized censorship free transfer of value could be useful….

  • +3

    I was the moron that bought at the highs in 2017 between $15,000 - $20,000 AUD, around $300k total (whole of life savings 15 years worth) and saw my investment drop 85% 1 year later. Now 4 years later, after a lot of crying and broken relationships, holding on to my BTC bags (no shitcoins), I managed to make $1.5 million (pre tax) last year at the peak when it reached $80k - $90k. In that hodl period, house prices have nearly doubled since 2017 so profits have been eroded somewhat. Still….should have gotten out lol to buy lower but now human greed has kicked in and I am holding on to dear life with this bag. When $250k AUD? Hehehe.

    • +1

      house prices have nearly doubled since 2017 so profits have been eroded somewhat.

      But no broken toilets and tenants skipping out of rent.

    • You could probably just hold those BTC bags forever and just take loans against them if you need money. Don't forget selling incurs a CGT event.

  • Gm fam,

    Today is will be a great day.

    BREAKING NEWS. 🇨🇦 BAN BITCOIN.

    Oh my fking goodness: Canada's Deputy Prime Minister says that, as part of the Emergencies Act, they are broadening Canada's "Terrorist Financing" rules so that they cover crowdfunding platforms and cryptocurrencies to the Canadian Freedom Convoy https://t.co/35bXSu4k6j

    Pack it up guys, it's going to ZERO.

    • +2

      Wow, Dan Pena was right all along when he said Bitcoin will go to ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO when it was at $3800USD in 2018.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX21rnDV-oo

      Time to sell everything and gift a free waterfront house to the ATO!

      With the Canadian situation, I think no matter which side you are on, blockading a major road which accounts for 25% of trade for a country for weeks should be off limits. You may agree with the reasons why they are doing it now. What if they did it for something you don't agree with? Would you be as supportive? In which case, there'd be blockades everywhere as there's no shortage of outrage around.

      Its like in the US, where the right wingers refer to the BLM riots correctly as riots and terrorist actions when they destroyed property and looted stores, but refuse to acknowledge what happened on Jan 6th was an insurrection. Where police officers died, and people violently broke into the capitol to try to stop Congress from executing its duties and steal the election which they lost, "bigly" (a quote from their cult leader). They try to put it down as "legitimate political discourse", which it clearly is not.

      • +1

        The funds were donated in good faith before the feds branded the protest as an act of terrorism.

        The feds should do the right thing by allowing the banks to refund the funds instead of putting them on hold.

        I support a monetary system made by the people, for the people. This is a perfect example of why these decentralised networks will grow and thrive in the face of censorship.

        • +3

          I agree with that. Canada trying to ban or restrict crypto is a bad.

          They should have just used emergency power to clear all blockades, that's clearly criminal and illegal. Arrest the criminals, fine them and impound their vehicles.

          They don't need to restrict the monetary system.

  • Lol, why does every person in this space state ‘they can retire now on it’. It’s a big statement. If you want to be certain to retire on what you have you need to cash it out. Anything besides that, nup. The coins have little utility. Pure speculation.

    • +3

      Does someone with an investment property have to "cash out" in order for them to retire on?

      The coins have little utility

      That tells me you have little understanding of the crypto space. Do abit of research. Here's a lead for you. Why are companies not only buying these coins, but actively developing on it. Tesla and MicroStrategy are only buying Bitcoin and holding it on its balance sheet, that's a bit boring. Look at what companies are doing with smart contracts on ETH, SOL, AVAX, companies like KPMG, MacDonalds, Hungry Jacks etc etc.

      I can say I can retire on my cypto portfolio because the income I derive from it, interest from staking, defi etc etc is multiples of the income from my day job. Which means I can quit at any time and do whatever passion project I want.

      You need to get away from this mentality of tying everything to cash. Cash is trash. You like trash? Then go ahead, horde it, governments love it when you horde their trash, they just print more. :D

      • -1

        If you can retire on staking and your investments and live a comfortable life, why not go and do it? Instead you sit on a bargain website in the comment sections telling people you can.

        • +4

          Warren Buffet is 100Y old, have a net worth of $100B and is still buidling (working).

          People who have money still like to do things other people like to do. Just because they have few more 0s in their portfolio doesn't mean they give up on 🐦 on social media.

          • +1

            @rektrading: Well said, thanks!

            I enjoy my day job and I enjoy being on social media. Don't project your idea of "retirement" onto me. We all find enjoyment in different ways.

            I actually learnt from Warren Buffet, he made a his first millionaire when he was 26 years old. Retired for a few months and got bored and went back working. So I want to avoid that, I don't want to get bored.

        • +1

          Read this blog post from 26th Feb 1995, https://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirv…

          Your comment will age like that article.

          "Visionaries see a future of telecommuting workers, interactive libraries and multimedia classrooms. They speak of electronic town meetings and virtual communities. Commerce and business will shift from offices and malls to networks and modems. And the freedom of digital networks will make government more democratic.

          Baloney."

          LOL :D

    • +2

      If you want to be certain to retire on what you have you need to cash it out.

      There is no need to cash out of the best performing asset class to 💩 fiat 💵.

      Take out a perpetual debt position at a 1% APR.

      Hodl, avoid taxes and continue to enjoy the asymmetric returns.

      • +2

        Exactly, if you don't want to be or stay poor, get out of this cash mentality. Cash is trash. Governments want you trapped in cash.

        By now, you should have noticed inflation. I certainly have, it is quite obvious. Don't trust the RBA, the inflation rate is definitely NOT 3.5%, not even close.

      • Take out a perpetual debt position at a 1% APR.

        In reality that's kind of difficult to pull off. What ends up happening instead is you usually get liquidated at a far, far lower price that had you sold during the bull run euphoria.

        Debt is a dangerous game, especially with 85%+ drawdowns

        • +1

          It's not difficult with proper risk management.

          Don't enter into a debt position at a peak or extreme greed. Wait for extreme fear or big dips.

          Debt is a dangerous game, especially with 85%+ drawdowns

          Leverage is a tool. It's no more dangerous than a chainsaw or a firearm.

          Btw Don't put a + on drawdowns. It can confuse people that don't understand how to use + & - with PnL.

          • +1

            @rektrading:

            It's not difficult with proper risk management.

            Kind of a catch-22. If you take on a debt it's likely because you don't have the funds. If you don't have the funds when times are good, you almost definitely are not going to have the funds, or access to them, when times are bad. The times when you should be entering positions.

            The interest rate, even 1% apr, isn't really a factor with crypto timeframes. Selling back out into the greed.

            • +1

              @idjces:

              If you take on a debt it's likely because you don't have the funds.

              I've funds.

              Buy digital assets 👉 DeFi 👉 borrow stablecoins 👉 earn yield on stablecoins 👉 BTFD with stablecoins 👉 deposit digital assets into DeFi 👉 🔃

            • @idjces: Bitcoin has never retraced past the peak of the previous cycle.

              For example
              The peak of the 2011 cycle was around $50, the lowest point of the 2014 bear market was around $100.
              The peak of the 2013 cycle was around $1000, the lowest point of the 2018 bear market was around $3800.
              The peak of the 2017 cycle was $19900, the current lowest point in 2021 was around $28000. Of course we don't know if the market will go lower until we get the next all time high

              So if you held onto your Bitcoin in any previous cycle, you are most likely a multi-millionaire.

              • +1

                @techlead: That's kind of a short data point, 10 years, all of which only ever existed in a period of quantitative easing.

                So far, 2021 was still the peak of the euphoria cycle.

                My point was mainly around entering a debt position. There is a big profit motive in triggering a liquidation cascade, when the bulls have gotten delusional about their infinite money machine.

                People don't opt in to sell their btc/eth at $3k/$80 during the covid crash. They get liquidated at the bottom with no other means to clear out their debt.

                Eg
                https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/134287/dao-students-fund…

                Would have been better off selling at any other point, instead got liquidated at the bottom.

                • +1

                  @idjces: It depends how much leverage you use. If you take out a 1% APR loan, it can only be max 25% LVR at the time of taking it out. (with Celsius)

                  Each loan provider will have different terms, take Celisus form example, so let's say you put in $100k worth of Bitcoin as collateral, and take out a $25k loan.

                  A margin call is triggered when the LVR exceeds 65%, in which case you must reduce the LVR back down to 25% LVR.

                  Let's say I took out this loan today, when Bitcoin is at $44000 USD. 2.272727BTC as collateral. BTC would have to drop to below $17000 to trigger a margin call (at exactly $17000 the LVR of the loan would be at 64.71%). In which case I will need to deposit more BTC. Approximately 3.61BTC to bring the loan back up to 25% LVR.

                  The probability of BTC going down that low is quite slim, not impossible, but very slim. I can easily take out a $2 mil loan to buy a property with a mortgage. I would have plenty of BTC to add if the price goes down.

                  This is where risk management comes in. If you are taking out a loan, make sure the LVR is not too high and you have plenty of colateral on the side to weather any bear market.

                  • +1

                    @techlead: Sure. Your situation is a little more unique in that you have an incredible amount of equity up front and any loan would be fractions of a percent.

                    To rearrange the numbers in your example

                    You have 5.88BTC available worth $258k as of today. With risk management you're only collateralizing 2.27BTC, all of which to get a $25k loan which amounts to ~10% of your holdings today (… which leads back to my point about surviving potential 85% drawdowns)

                    In the situation where you only had 2.27BTC available. You would either be liquidated at $17k (and would have been ~$40k better off selling that 1.47 BTC today). Alternatively, then you either pay back the $25k at the worst possible time, or are expected to come up with $61k in funds/BTC to maintain the position.

                • @idjces:

                  On January 2
                  Rehmtulla said that the funds — worth around $150,000 — had been transferred into a collateralized debt position (CDP) for the decentralized stablecoin DAI.

                  A crisis struck when the market dropped significantly. As announced on January 27, when the price of ether fell below $2,200, it caused the DAI position to become underwater. It was subsequently liquidated by a third party.

                  The DAO minted DAI on Jan 2, 2022, when Ether was $3828 and hodl the DAI to Jan 24 2022. They had 21D to derisk by reducing the CDP before being liquidated 24hr later.

                  The DAO showed a total lack of risk management by hodl the DAI for 21D when Ether was making lower-high and lower-lower. They deserved the lesson for not having an exit plan.

                  • +1

                    @rektrading: Indeed.

                    I recall reading about a similar perpetual debt position that someone theorized upon with their stock portfolio. Unsurprisingly, they ended up liquidated in 2008.

                    • @idjces:

                      (… which leads back to my point about surviving potential 85% drawdowns)

                      I wouldn't worry about a -85% damp. The biggest 3-day Bitcoin drop was in Apr 2013 when the price opened at $228 and closed at $111 with a 3-day range of -79%.

                      Traders will have a few days to close their CDP to avoid getting liquidated.

    • +2

      Your comment sounds like what people were saying about the internet in the 90s, how it was just a fad, it will never amount to anything and people will not know how to use it etc etc. Its quite funny.

      https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2016/08/25-years-h…

  • What do the crypto experts on here think of Block Earner?

    Claims to be stablecoin staking for the masses. 7% fixed, or 2-18% variable return per year. No doubt they would take a healthy % for managing the funds.

    https://blockearner.com.au/

    • Not a crypto expert, I'm still learning every day about crypto, but here's my 2c.

      It doesn't seem to have launched yet. Seems like you can only join the waiting list. My suggestion is to understand how the company gives you these returns.

      For example, Celsius gives you returns by lending out crypto and charging borrowers. Blockfi has interstitional investors who they charge and also lend out crypto.

      The biggest risk with these platforms is the company going down either due to insolvency or a hack.

      • That’s right, they haven’t officially launched. The thing I don’t get, is who would be borrowing at 20% (or more) for them to be able to pay you 18%?

        • Heaps of people.

          I used to take out traditional loans to buy crypto. I just paid off a personal loan I took out in 2016 to buy ETH at $10 each. Worked out amazingly well! Before tax, I can buy a nice house outright with the proceeds. :D For people who bought investment properties in 2016, they are probably still in debt. lol

          There are alot of people who are borrowing to stake and do other more complex stuff.

    • +1

      Why bet on a new company when there's companies that already have a track record?

      • Good point. Who else is doing this? I’m not aware of any Australian companies

        • +1

          Coinspot is an Australian exchange, they have staking available. Binance Australia also has staking.

          I don't see any issues with overseas companies, so I'm not restricting myself to Australian based companies.

        • SwyftX have staking available.

  • BREAKING NEWS.

    "accounts will be frozen" means the Canadian government can now steal your money with the collusion of the banks because you provided financial support to a protest against the government. If you think this is a good idea you deserve what coming to you.

    Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland: "The names of both individuals and entities as well as crypto wallets have been shared by the RCMP with financial institutions and accounts have been frozen and more accounts will be frozen." https://t.co/iA69DbRJl1

    The next holiday destination should be 🇨🇦. They make sure your money is 100% safe, from yourself!

    When will 🇦🇺 follow suit?

    • +1

      First, those people occupying the streets and blocking off major roads and intersections are no longer protesters, let's call them correctly, they are terrorists. Who gave them the right to infringe on the rights of others for their cause? There isn't a majority of Canadians, not even a majority of truckers support those terrorists. They are just a very noisy minority. They honk their horns 24/7 disturbing the peace for surrounding residents. What about the rights of the residents to a peaceful night's sleep? What about the rights of Canadians to use those public roads?

      Last time I checked it is already illegal to fund terrorism in Australia, so we don't need to follow suit, we are already doing it. If you fund terrorism, your account will be frozen and we should all be for that.

      Protesting is maybe temporarily blocking off a street for like a few hours, maximum a few days, not weeks. That crosses the line from being a protest to a terrorist act. Note I'm not opining on whether their cause is legitmate or correct, just their actions. You can swap out their cause with any other. No matter the cause, what they are doing is a terrorist act, its no longer a protest.

      • -1

        PM Justin Trudeau didn't invoke the Anti-Terrorism Act. He used the Emergencies Act to bypass due process.

        The Canadian Civil Liberties Association is preparing to sue his (the feds) abuse of power in Court.

        • I don't know much about the legal system in Canada.

          Just commenting on the actions of the truckers, it totally crosses the line. I'm surprised the police hasn't stepped in and arrested all those truckers and impounded their vehicles. I wonder if the police would have kid gloves on if the people occupying and blocking the streets was protesting for gay rights or transgender rights. What if they were protesting against police brutality. Swap out the cause with any other, would the police act differently?

          Not sure what an equivalent block in Australia is, maybe blocking access to a major port or airport? No matter the cause, I'd like the government to use all reasonable force to clear the blockage as soon as possible. No one should have the right to do what those truckers are doing in Canada in a civilised society. You don't like something, challenge it in the courts or express yourself at the ballot box, not block and occupy streets, infringing on the rights of others.

        • They are finally towing the trucks away! About time, they need to impound the trucks and fine them, if they don’t pay, then sell the trucks.

          No one should be allowed to violate the rights of others like this, that is not the right way to protest. It doesn’t matter what the cause is, no cause can justify these criminal actions.

          https://youtu.be/pTGuWOHSCmk

          • -1

            @techlead: I've never understood why 👮 use the cavalry as crowd control nowadays when they can use modern-day technology.

            NSFW.

            CTV calls this an “allegation”. https://t.co/QbDlTkPcUw

            Police in Ottawa trampled protesters with horses today. https://t.co/VPLX5XpDhf

            • @rektrading: You can't just occupy major roads for weeks, infringing on the rights of the majority of Canadians and say its ok, its a peaceful protest. A majority of Candians want their life back, they want to move freely on those public roads which has been blocked by those criminals. A majority of Canaidans want their peace back. Not even a majority of truckers support what this small noisy miniority are doing.

              I don't think Canada has a heat ray like the US. At one point, the orange clown was thinking about using the heat ray on BLM protesters, but surprisingly not for the Jan 6th insurrectionists. I wonder why.

              It may be unsavoury to watch protesters getting tampled by horses, but if they play stupid games, they get stupid prizes. The police should have done it a lot earlier. Its quit ridiculous what these "peaceful protesters" are doing.

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