NAS with Docker Recommendations for Pfsense/Plex/File Server

dmbminaret on 24/03/2021 - 21:03
Last edited 24/03/2021 - 21:30

I have a very old seagate NAS with a basic OS. Looking at a firewall setup for home and have had great success with pfsense at work. Uptime is incredible.

Thinking to streamline uses into one box if possible in containers which I have not used before. I have a seedbox with plex, but would be handy to have my shows that I want to keep on the NAS at home with plex (no transcoding, seldom used). A file server for wife to access files from work, etc. Pfsense routing to unifi APs in the house so maybe hosting the controller on there too.

Should I be looking at synology? Say, DS918+? I've got 2x 4TB drives ready to go, and a two bay would probably suffice if significantly cheaper than a four bay.

Has anyone had any good or bad experience running pfsense in a container?

What's your recommendations for best bang for buck? Is ~$500 achievable?

Should I just get a cheap dell with 2 nics and install linux with docker as an alternative?

Cheers.

Computing

Comments

  • Caped Baldy on 24/03/2021 - 23:43

    I got the Terramaster F5-221 for $432. I got an extra 8gb stick and put truenas on it (which I later found out needs a minimum of 8gb to run).

    Costwise it is achievable though longevity is a bit of an unknown as I've only had it since the beginning of the year.

    I believe raspberry released a NAS version if you want to go really budget.

  • chasis on 25/03/2021 - 00:13

    Sounds like I have the same setup as you currently do (pfsense, file server and UniFi AP Controller). I am also looking into consolidating as I am running them on a number of mini PCs and especially during summer my office was heating up.

    My mate has had great success with the DS918+ which he upgraded to 32gb. This probably puts it out of your price range, but I know that he is running multiple docker containers on it with UniFi Controller, Splunk and multiple other apps. I'm looking to move across to something like that soon.

  • tomclancy on 25/03/2021 - 01:09

    Interested to. In similar boat

  • jkb on 25/03/2021 - 07:35
    +1

    Just FYI there is something going on with the pfsense implementation of wireguard. https://www.reddit.com/r/pfsense/comments/m7vi3b/_/

    I'm in a similar position but slowly investing in the unifi setup. I hope to see an upgrade of the USG and WiFi 6 AP released. I want to separate the HW and waiting for deals on the 11tg gen nucs - they have AV1 codec support which will future proof this a bit.

    Btw check out the podcast selfhosted. Drawing a lot of inspiration from it.

    • dmbminaret on 25/03/2021 - 14:02
      -1

      I got a UDM and I'm not very happy with it. poor performance.

      • jkb on 25/03/2021 - 14:04
        +1

        Yeah, I try to separate things out, UDM looks like too much HW mashed together and if something fails you need to replace the whole thing.

        • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 16:55

          looks like too much HW mashed together and if something fails you need to replace the whole thing.

          Funnily enough this is literally how I got in the UniFi ecosystem in the first place. ISP device's WiFi was rubbish, so got a UAP. Then when I got NBN, got a USG.

    • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 16:54

      Btw check out the podcast selfhosted. Drawing a lot of inspiration from it.

      Likewise, although yet to pull the trigger on anything so far. Mostly research and dreaming.

      Link for the lazy: https://selfhosted.show/

  • AndyC1 on 25/03/2021 - 09:39
    +1

    If you go down the container path DO NOT store any data you want in the future in the container. Data is stored on the Host OS and in the container configuration you map a host directory into the container's relevant data directory. It's not that hard with docker. I have not used K8S yet.

    Best bang for your buck is to try containers as you can play with it on your main PC and not have to pay for anything. To find a potential relevant container google "docker hub pfsense" and check out the results.

  • scotty on 25/03/2021 - 09:53
    +1

    I am basically running a HP Microserver N54L at home running Debian and LXC containers. You can get a refurbished one quite cheaply these days, but the dual core CPU is quite slow for anything intensive.

    • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 16:53

      You can get a refurbished one quite cheaply these days

      You, uhhh, got any links? ^_^

      • scotty on 26/03/2021 - 11:34
        +1

        Yeah I assumed that since N40L/N54L are very old units there will be lots on the market but I just looked up on eBay and can't find any decent priced ones. There's a N54L for $199+postage on eBay, which is expensive considered many OzBargainers have paid less than $250 back in 2013.

        • Hybroid on 26/03/2021 - 11:45

          HP updated their Microserver range with lots of enterprise features and jacked up the price significantly. What was once a fairly cheap device for small use and home tinkering became a pricey machine with features most of us don't need. Bit of a shame but that's where profits are I suppose. Which means older units have also gotten more expensive as demand is still high for something cheap and cheerful.

          Also rocking an original N36L and N54L and love them. Slow but rock solid Plex machines!

    • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 14:15
      +1

      As someone who has/had a NAS, I'm avoiding them from now on. Too proprietary. You're tied to the manufacturer for updates etc. Once the manufacturer decides it's not worth their time keeping the software update, you've now got a security vulnerability in your house you can't fix (apart from perhaps blocking it from the internet, but even that isn't fullproof).

      I've been watching/reading/listening to a lot of content about Linux, Self-hosting and the like lately and my plan (at the moment) is to pick myself up a second hand workstation and go from there.

      Should I be looking at synology? Say, DS918+? I've got 2x 4TB drives ready to go, and a two bay would probably suffice if significantly cheaper than a four bay.

      Synologoy consistently gets itself a good rap. If you're set on getting a "pre-built" NAS, they're great. Having said that, I've never used one myself.

      Has anyone had any good or bad experience running pfsense in a container?

      Haven't done any infrastructure yet. But from my aforementioned research, I would recommend any critical infrastructure (like your router) be on separate hardware. Why? Because if you want to do any changes to your Plex/whatever server hardware, you will need to take down your router too. Put critical infrastructure on it's own hardware and leave it alone (apart from security updates, necessary configuration changes).

      What's your recommendations for best bang for buck? Is ~$500 achievable?

      More than likely. As I said, I'm looking at picking myself up a second-hand workstation (~$200?). That leaves a decent amount for drives, other accessories as needed.

      Should I just get a cheap dell with 2 nics and install linux with docker as an alternative?

      Just remember if you go with 2 NICs getting them to talk to each other can be a pain (even a single NIC can be a pain as sometimes the ports can be on different controllers in the same NIC).

      • jkb on 25/03/2021 - 15:19

        I'm mostly considering a pre-built NAS due to power consumption concerns (~10W idle) of a custom built one. Do you know if the pre-built NAS power consumption levels can be achieved with a custom built system? Also I assume that swapping dead drives and recovering from incidents (RAID 1/5) might be easier on a commercial system?

        • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 16:49

          I'm mostly considering a pre-built NAS due to power consumption concerns (~10W idle) of a custom built one. Do you know if the pre-built NAS power consumption levels can be achieved with a custom built system?

          Really depends on what parts you put in it - which is part of the beauty of self-built: you pick the pieces.

          I'll have to do some listening, but there's an episode on the Self-Hosted Podcast (possibly episode 21) where they talk about power consumption. One of the hosts has a literal server (19" mounted with multiple Xeons) that uses something like 300W when idle and he was looking at switching to a standard desktop processor, purely because of Intel QuickSync, which can (supposedly) do multiple 4K transcodes in Plex without breaking a sweat.

          Also I assume that swapping dead drives and recovering from incidents (RAID 1/5) might be easier on a commercial system?

          You can get hot-swap bays for standard desktop tower cases, so no, not (necessarily) easier.

          One thing I'm looking at taking on from that Perfect Media Server is MergerFS and SnapRAID. The advantages of RAID without the issues of disk readability (if you use RAID 5, the data on each disk is not readable without the rest of the array. With MergerFS and SnapRAID, each disk can be read independently of the "array", with it's own files and filesystem (you can have one disk formatted as exFAT, another as ext4 if you like).

          • jkb on 25/03/2021 - 17:02

            @Chandler: I'm still on the edge. I need a nuc (high power) for the decoding/encoding and low power system for storage. Theoretically I could mash them together but I feel like I'd be too reliant on one system.

            An advantage of the nucs are 11gen CPUs and low power mode. Disadvantage the limited upgradeability / replacement options.

            Also what I worry about is the maintenance overhead of a custom build system.

            Btw I do have experience with linux/debian and just finishing a retropie and docker install of home assistant. Just trying to figure out a way forward lol

            • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 17:52

              @jkb:

              I'm still on the edge. I need a nuc (high power) for the decoding/encoding and low power system for storage.

              As long a transfer speeds between the two don't bottleneck you.

              Theoretically I could mash them together but I feel like I'd be too reliant on one system.

              True. But as per my first comment, if my Plex & my storage server both go down (same box) I'm not too concerned (since you can't use one without the other). But if that takes down my network, that's a problem.

              Also what I worry about is the maintenance overhead of a custom build system.

              Same here.

              Btw I do have experience with linux/debian and just finishing a retropie and docker install of home assistant. Just trying to figure out a way forward lol

              Nice. So am I.

              I've got a Pi 3b running HassOS (was toying with Raspbian but wanted the Supervisor without the effort of DIYing it). Hell I even compiled my own Kernel to see if I could get Ubuntu Server and LXC running on the Pi (I don't think I managed to get it running).

              I'm still new(ish) to Linux, so still lots to learn.

              • jkb on 25/03/2021 - 18:00

                @Chandler: Cool, the thing with plex and storage being on the same HW. The downside is I think that you probably still have the metadata if it's separated (?). Also I think it will consume more power as tge HDDs are always spinning compared to a separate system which can be more energy efficient? On fhe other hand you can have an ssd with the system and the NAS storage as HDDs.

                Btw got supervised HASS on docker on a PI4 with raspbian which manages a unifi controller, so my thoughts are that that is my most critical HW. Very easy to replace and to restore (did pretty much a trial run when I changed the sdcard for a bigger one) within 1h with the google drive plugin.

                IDK so many options…

                • Chandler on 25/03/2021 - 23:46

                  @jkb:

                  Also I think it will consume more power as tge HDDs are always spinning compared to a separate system which can be more energy efficient? On fhe other hand you can have an ssd with the system and the NAS storage as HDDs.

                  HDD spin-down isn't always determined by what sort of box they're installed in - the software you're running and also the drives themselves mostly determine that.

                  On that perfect media server site (I think I've put enough links to them lol), application data (i.e. docker config, Plex database, etc) is stored in a ZFS pool for data security, and I believe those drives were SSDs (for speed).

                  Btw got supervised HASS on docker on a PI4 with raspbian which manages a unifi controller, so my thoughts are that that is my most critical HW. Very easy to replace and to restore (did pretty much a trial run when I changed the sdcard for a bigger one) within 1h with the google drive plugin.

                  Nice. Yeah Pi's are great: I've actually been considering whether I just get a few of them (either completely separate or in a Kubernetes cluster or something) rather than an actual "server". I remember seeing a 3D-printed "blade" rack for Pi's. My only concern with the Pi route is some of the limitations of the Pi (being ARM) over a traditional x86 system.

                  IDK so many options…

                  Yeah, that's been my problem too.

                  • jkb on 26/03/2021 - 10:20

                    @Chandler:

                    … ZFS pool for data …

                    Just careful with ZFS, I believe the hosts at selfhosted.show seem to gravitate towards mergerFS these days as you can have issues with ZFS if you just want to pull a drive from one system and plug it into a different one in case of a failure.

                    My only concern with the Pi route is some of the limitations of the Pi (being ARM) over a traditional x86 system.

                    Yeah, still, x86 gives you the option to fall-back if you need to host something older. So I want at least one system on x86.

                    What hub do you use for your sensors for HASS? I got a Xiaomi v3 gateway and looking for some sensors / plugs so if you have any recommendations I'm all ears.

                    BTW if you'd like we can connect somewhere to bounce ideas of each other since we are building pretty similar setups.

                    • Chandler on 26/03/2021 - 10:48

                      @jkb:

                      … ZFS pool for data …

                      Just careful with ZFS, I believe the hosts at selfhosted.show seem to gravitate towards mergerFS these days as you can have issues with ZFS if you just want to pull a drive from one system and plug it into a different one in case of a failure.

                      They do still use ZFS - the ZFS pool is actually made available through mergerFS. It is just for critical data but (i.e. app configs), and they use ZFS due to the bitrot and other data protections it has. I believe they also do some things to reduce the pain of ZFS, i.e. only 2-disk vdevs, not a huge amount of data (to reduce silvering times), etc. Having said all that, ideally you would hopefully not need to worry about that because your disks (hopefully) don't die.

                      What hub do you use for your sensors for HASS? I got a Xiaomi v3 gateway and looking for some sensors / plugs so if you have any recommendations I'm all ears.

                      No sensors! Google Home's, a Chromecast, TP-Link plugs (which I can't really recommend anymore given they've locked down the API) and a TP-Link light is all I got.

                      For everything else in the future I'm looking at DIYing with ESP32s via ESPHome. Cheap/easy to replace, and no concerns about manufacturer (profanity)-ery. I have one at the moment that I'm deciding what to use it for. Current considerations:

                      • Meat thermometer (iGrill via bluetooth)
                      • LPG tracking (via load-cells)
                      • Blind/vertical control (via motor on the chain/track, like a SwitchBot)

                      BTW if you'd like we can connect somewhere to bounce ideas of each other since we are building pretty similar setups.

                      Sounds like a good idea. Hardware has never been my strong point.

                      ICQ? :P Maybe Discord? I'm on both the Home Assistant and ESPHome Discord (and Self-Hosted, Ubiquiti, serverbuilds.net, LinuxServer.io …… yeah, I think I've got a problem); although I'm not terribly active on any of them.

                      • jkb on 26/03/2021 - 15:30

                        @Chandler:

                        They do still use ZFS - the ZFS pool is actually made available through mergerFS.

                        I see, it looks like you are further with your research than me :)

                        For everything else in the future I'm looking at DIYing with ESP32s via ESPHome.

                        I actually flashed the firmware on some BrilliantSmart downlights so they get recognised by HASS. I should research it further if the gateways I have will work with some ESP32s.

                        I wish I could log in into my old ICQ account :) I've created an account on the selfhosted.show discord: jkb#2171

                        • Chandler on 26/03/2021 - 15:34

                          @jkb:

                          I see, it looks like you are further with your research than me :)

                          That's assuming I'm understanding correctly!

                          I actually flashed the firmware on some BrilliantSmart downlights so they get recognised by HASS.

                          I haven't done any research, but I've been wary of flashing firmware on devices due to the whole electrical safety, insurance, fire thing. I'm not concerned about it actually causing an issue, just that in the case of a fault/fire, what may/may not happen (whether as a result of custom firmware or not).

                          I should research it further if the gateways I have will work with some ESP32s.

                          ESP32s are WiFi and Bluetooth, not Zigbee/ZWave/etc. They connect via standard 2.4 GHz to your wireless network. ESP8266s (predecessor to the ESP32) are WiFi only.

                          I wish I could log in into my old ICQ account :) I've created an account on the selfhosted.show discord: jkb#2171

                          I'll see you there :)

      • dmbminaret on 25/03/2021 - 19:56

        As I said, I'm looking at picking myself up a second-hand workstation (~$200?). That leaves a decent amount for drives, other accessories as needed.

        I like this solution. Actually prefer it, but wonder about power consumption of a NAS vs a SFF tower…

        Got a dell poweredge blade server at work, but once again, the power I'm guessing would be too much for home.

  • dmbminaret on 25/03/2021 - 20:56
    +1

    I think I have my solution. I actually have one of these at home with hackintosh on it. May use that one or look for a newer one:

    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/lenovo-m720q-tiny-…

  • NotAnAudiophile on 26/03/2021 - 08:10

    I just run unraid. Intel based for both nas and plex.

  • jv on 26/03/2021 - 11:36

    NAS with Docker Recommendations

    Nat Fyfe recommends QNAP…

    • Chandler on 26/03/2021 - 12:01

      I'm not up on the news. Searching "Nat Fyfe" "nap" isn't giving me any clues… got a hint for me?

      • jv on 26/03/2021 - 13:05

        Searching "Nat Fyfe" "nap"

        Sleep on it…

        • Chandler on 26/03/2021 - 13:58

          Well you can run Docker on a QNAP. But they aren't exactly a mantelpiece for free software.

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