I’ve seen so many people driving on clear empty highway just chilling in the right lane, forcing me to overtake on the left which is not ideal.
What’s your problem with keeping left?
People who refuse to keep left
asafasr on 24/03/2021 - 14:33
Comments
What about people who speed? Who use their mobile phone? I'd consider both more dangerous.
What about those? People who speed/use their phones are more dangerous so therefore lets ignore and not tackle anything else?
I think society is capable to causing more than 1 danger at a time, as well as tackling more than 1 danger at a time.Our laws are waaay too relaxed for people like those.
It begins with driver training.. or lack there of.
some of the shit you see learners getting away with just makes you give up.
people are only taught to pass their license, not how to drive.
Plenty of L plate drivers stop using their blinkers when they get their Ps.
I think it’s hard to keep an egocentric teenager trained.
to keep them trained.. first they need to be properly trained… not just driven round the block adn shown what the tester is looking for… yes thats how it works much of the time when I was ringing round to get daughter lessons..
ring a few driving schools and ask em. they all know the route the tester will take… thats Vic at least.
It doesn’t matter which lane they are in.
Just over take them, like you would if you were walking on the footpath.
On the footpath I just elbow bump people in my way…
So, the equivalent while driving would be to bump them off the road. Like you see in police car chase scenes? 😆
Or cut them off by changing to the right lane and giving them the finger.
Nah, I think the equivalent is we'll PIT everyone.
Yes, but walking you don’t have the possibility to crash and kill yourself and someone else
I usually find the root cause of this is that the drivers have been taught by bad / serfish driving instructors, and they continue their bad driving habits into full licence life.
Exactly and majority of the instructors I’ve seen are of an ethnic background so who knows how long they have lived here.
It’s due to narcissism, pure and simple.
I am new to ozbargain but I am loving the subsection of the website that is just people passive aggressively complaining about unsolvable traffic gripes on here
It’s definitely solvable. Driving on country roads, it’s about a 99.9% compliance rate. It’s only within the city people are doing it.
Let me clarify: it’s not solvable by going into a forum on ozbargain and complaining.
What highways, what speed and which state OP?
Yep this is the number one thing on the toad that drives me crazy. The rule should be keep left if a dual lane not if it’s over 80km/h. It slows down the flow of traffic when you have drivers in the right lane under the speed limit and it’s dangerous. It’s usually people that didn’t grow up in Australia 🤦🏽♂️
Ahh yes, I wish I had that superpower too where I instantly knew where people grew up just by seeing just their head and shoulder through the car window. 🤦🏻♂️
And the thing is, they drive 1, 2kph over limit to cheap up and overtake you.
Many times I've noticed someone approaching, then what seems an eternity later, you think to yourself, where are they, didn't I see someone… only to find they are sitting in you blind spot.These people can't drive. Not many can on freeways. They have absolutely no idea.
If you overtake, you get past asap… if you overtake and notice the guy on the left will be jammed in behind a truck, you pull back to allow them to pull out also.
If you approach a freeway from an entry road, "match the speed" and merge… idiots will completely stop.
That's a truly valid example of how dangerous it can be that if you are at a matched speed, maybe chilling in that blind spot or sitting side by side then you shouldn't be in the overtaking lane. These people only think about themselves. Same with obviously clear motorways no need to be in the right!
One thing that does grind my gears too is the opposite, on congested highways where the two left lanes are slow trying to exit and the right lane is overtaking, the people who bully those going at the speed limit and drive up their ass to speed up, beep etc. I swear people lost patience as soon as they got their license.. it's funny because they would never skip a queue at the supermarket, push people out of your way in a crowd, or shout at people to get of the way but soon as they're in a car they become this (profanity).
NSW 'Rule 130 (1)(a)&(2) Drive in right lane on road with speed limit over 80 km/h …
$349 [fine and] 2 [points]' - https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/deme…https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/driver-training-a…
https://www.oversixty.com.au/finance/legal/when-not-to-keep-…
'On multi-lane roads with a speed limit of more than 80km/h, motorists must not drive in the right-hand lane unless they are:
• overtaking
• turning right or making a U-turn
• avoiding an obstacle
• driving in congested traffic
• driving in a special purpose lane or if there is a Left Lane Must Turn Left sign or a left traffic arrow and the driver is not turning left. If a Keep Left Unless Overtaking sign is displayed, the requirement applies regardless of the speed limit.' - page 9 of https://myrta.com/ebus/docs/rescat/pdf/5/2200/45094066ttopte…https://www.9news.com.au/national/keep-left-unless-overtakin…
what classifies as 'congested traffic'
and also how far my right turn has to be.open to Police interpretation (at least here in WA) but if I average out the answers from the various times I've asked, it works out to 3-4 cars in front as well as 3-4 cars behind you.
Does this even apply to me if I have previously been in a crash with a truck ?
I have a question. If you go into the the overtake lane and the left lane is doing speed limit, already quite full and suddenly you see a police car on the left lane. Do you continue overtaking past the limit or just say "sorry to everyone behind me but I ain't speeding to overtake a police car and it might be a while before I can merge back into the left lane"?
I can see people driving more than 1 car back on the right lane, not having a clue as to why the right lane is now stuck not overtaking and getting frustrated.
I always continue driving as normal, and another lessen is try not to speed when overtaking. If you’re on cruise at the limit and overtaking normally then moving back left, Traffic will flow smoothly.
Also remember the actual limit is gps speedometers not your cars speedo. If you’re basing your speed off the car Speedo you could be off by 10kmh.
My car speed is 108 for true gps 100km
If you speed to overtake then slow down after moving left, you’re creating massive disruptions in traffic flow.Why might it be a while to merge back in? Drivers need some assertiveness skills. Merging when there is no other vehicles is not merging, it's changing lanes.
Merging by definition means there is somebody else where you want to be, and for this reason vehicles are equipped with indicators.This is how merging works:
1) You indicate your intention
2) The car behind either backs off to give you room, or accelerates to fill the gap to block you (depending upon where you live, what vehicle you drive etc)
3a) If the mergee backs off, you casually change lanes.
3b) If not, you align the front of your vehicle with the rear of the vehicle you intend merging behind
Once your nose is in the mergee's lane, thier options are a) back off or b) ram you. I'm not aware of option b) ever being taken in real life.I saw the best example of this in slow motion. We were in stand-still traffic, and a vehicle was indicating their intention to merge in from a driveway. The vehicle in front of me took the block approach, but the merger implemented the standard procecedure. So we had several minutes of the merger's nose in front of the mergee, with only a few feet seperating merger and mergee. The merger wound down his window and just wagged his finger and gave merger a "tsk tsk tsk". The mergee was lucky he didn't have a baseball bat on his backseat and give her a more aggressive lesson. I expect that happens.
Reasons why I might sit in the right lane
- not paying enough attention, and the car behind me approaches too quickly for me to realise and merge left - if this happens I'll merge back after the car passes
- when I'm slow-vertaking, and I can tell that I'll get trapped in the left lane if I let the cars behind me go ahead
- similar to the above, when the car I'm overtaking can't keep a constant speed so I look like the bad guy in the right hand lane
I hope that was a confession rather than an excuse. In all three of those cases, you should not be in the right lane.
(If you're not willing to go as fast as the other care to overtake, you need to let them go first.)
Example: You're "slow-vertaking", you see a car approaching from behind faster than you. Your choices: a) speed up to go past promptly; or b) you abort overtaking and pull back in behind, let the faster vehicles overtake, then try again if you have more time.
Alternative c) exercising your right to stay in the right lane regardless of the inconvenience to others, is not an option.
Learn from me, or learn from a cop or a guy with a baseball bat on his back seat.
The first was a confession, the second two are an excuse.
I'm gonna keep on with my slow-vertake. If I'm going at or slightly over the speed limit and there's a slower car in front of me, I'm going to slow-vertake. It's not incumbent on me to facilitate people travelling over the speed limit.
@dinna
So the takeaways from your dot points
your not paying attention to your surroundings when you drive. You sit in the right lane until you eventually realise your driving slow in the overtaking lane and impeding traffic then decide to move over but then decide to go back?!
you slowly overtake slow traffic and then proceed to drive slowly in the overtake lane creating the same problem in the right lane.
you have bad judgment in overtaking and don’t make the call to speed up and go past or slow down.
You are the driver that creates phantom traffic jams my friend.
I have a friend who made a similar confession to me… more precisely the drifting from the speed limit, but when someone approaches they wake up and go back to speed limit until they lose focus again. The overtaking lane always gives these people focus.
I didn't hestitate to tell this friend that too are part of the problem.
I am a traffic engineer. I know what causes phantom traffic jams. People keeping a constant speed is not what causes Phantom traffic jams, but nice try.
No wonder the roads here are designed so poorly! when the people (allegedly) designing them can’t drive what hope have we got? 😂
Btw, I'm an astronaut and i say you do cause phantom traffic jams. 👍🏼
@El cheepo: Dunno about the astronaut comment there mate. Look over my comment history, either I've been LARPing as a traffic engineer for years or maybe I know what I'm talking about.
@Bren20: Uncalled for smart alec comment on my part, Sorry.
Regardless of your job title, the issue at hand is people that can’t keep left.
Have you considered from reading this thread that you are part of the issue the OP raised,
And as such, contribute to unnecessary traffic?@El cheepo: I only brought up my job title in the context of phantom traffic jams, not in support of my driving behaviour. My job does not impact my driving skill (with the exception of my ability to understand when a light will turn green).
I can fully self justify my behaviour. I am not sitting under the speed limit in the right lane, I am overtaking at or just over the limit, it's just that the car next to me is traveling at a similar speed. I'm not in a rush to allow people to pass me doing 5+ ks over the limit, but I will let them pass if I get the opportunity. I'm not getting on my high horse trying to slow everything down, I'm just trying to minimise my own travel time
Just totally agree with you, I would like a wider education campaign on this, most of us learn the rules, start driving and then pick up rules that we either didn't remember or aren't written down. If I came from another country, I'm sure I would make mistakes like this, so I'm generally interested in how do we let people know? Flashing lights, making faces etc, they probably won't get it. There's responsibility on their part to learn, they're adults, but I don't know what is the best way for the community to tell people the right way to drive, for this question and others.
Always allow plenty of time for your journey and you will be less likely to post these sorts of posts. Having said that and having driven on freeways all over Australia I would rank the Gold Coast to Brisbane freeway as the worst for over entitled and under achieving drivers. It’s like being in a snake pit with cars zipping all over the place at varying speeds and levels of rage. Using the right hand lane to pass in a legal manner usually ends up with a line of frustrated and angry drivers building up behind you and JUST when it is safe to change lanes they under pass you keeping you in the right lane even longer creating more road rage from the new line of traffic that has formed behind you. There are 2 sides to this ridiculous argument.
You just need to sharpen your driving skills. The only way to be overtaken on the left is if you've been caught out in the wrong lane. (Yes, it isn't always your fault. Someone exits the lane to your left while you're overtaking them etc.) Even if you have to inconvenience that "angry driver" by merging in front of him back into the left lane.
Otherwise there will be a whole line of "angry drivers" going around you on the left.The bottom line is, you're in the right most lane but you don't want to go as fast as another driver, and that makes you the problem.
The conclusion to this "ridiculous argument" is to ask yourself: if the "angry driver" was to flash thier highbeam rather than move into the left lane, would you get over?
What if they flashed thier blue flashing lights?
If its an empty highway, and your doing the speed limit, I dont see how taking them on the left would be an issue, in fact its actually less hassle because you dont need to change lanes.
Found one!
No I'm one of the cool guys who overtakes everyone, ya gotta believe me!
The point I was making, is usually the people who complain are speeding, and there's something slow in the LH laneI get what you're trying to say: there's nobody around so it doesn't matter which lane is free.
But the rules are there, and there are expectations on how people should drive. Deviations from this expectation is what causes collisions.
@CMH: You hit the nail on the nail. Rules are there for a reason and if you chose when to follow them then that’s where the issues start. Most of the drivers that don’t keep left don’t even know the road rules and shouldn’t even have a licence.
If it's an empty highway, what is this overtaking you speak of? But seriously, what is somebody doing in the right lane on an empty highway?
I would be in the left lane, and of course am not doing to change x lanes just to get behind this moron and try to make him move to the left so I can overtake him the safe way.
But it would theoretically be the correct thing to do. For example, if I had blue flashing lights and a little book I definitely would.Around my way we have 2 lane expressways that handle huge amounts of traffic. The problem you have here is it essentially makes a 2 lane road a 1 lane road, and therefore handles much less traffic. This is probably why its not policed.
No it doesn't.
Even assuming the rule doesn't allow you to stay in the right lane while congested (which it does), everyone will assumedly still be doing the speed limit. If there's anyone doing less than the speed limit, everyone would go onto the right lane to overtake that person, which satisfies the rule. And they then should go back out of the right lane.
If everyone's just happy to stay on one lane following the vehicle in front because everyone's doing the same speed, then nobody's getting anywhere any faster/slower.
Noticed something worse while I was touring in Brisbane.
Motorway has 3-4 lanes and there these dudes in a straight row going below limit. 🤦♂️
It’s Queensland dammit!
Do you mean it’s a state wide problem? 😲
I used city’s name as it was in the metro region that i travelled.
I've never really understood why any of this is even an issue.
If everybody just drove the speed on the signs, they'd all be going the same speed and nobody would have to overtake anybody. It would be so simple.
Why do people have to go slower/faster than the speed limit so often? It's a highway, stop speeding up and slowing down unnecessarily!It’s an issue because undertaking is dangerous, and we can’t possibly have all cars driving at the same speed even we fit cars with a perfect speedometer. maintaining a perfect speed with cruise control is not possible with hills, and a car with no cc is even harder.
The perfect Speedo doesn’t really exist because cars have difference size wheels and as tyres wear the diameter changes which changes your car Speedo reading.The problem is you get people who think the right lane is the "fast lane" and gives them permission to go 20-30km/h over the limit then complain about those people in the right lane.
That is not the case. You can't legally sit in the right lane sitting right on the limit unless you are overtaking if the speed limit is 80km/h or more. Yes cars do go faster in the right lane and they are the ones risking a fine at that speed. Most of the time those sort of drivers are paying more attention to what is going on around them than the majority of drivers.
@bobwokeup: Not sure why you were downvoted, so I fixed it for you.
Maybe somebody thought you were condoning speeding, which I don't, but it is certainly not anyone's right to sit in the right lane doing the speed limit as is they were a vigilante policing the speed limit.
Undertaking wouldn't exist either if everyone went the same speed, so I'm not sure why you bring it up. I don't personally have an issue maintaining a speed, it's not hard? Like sure some people might be going a little bit faster or slower, but on highways it's pretty common to see people doing 10-20 under in perfect weather, and 10-30 over which is pretty unnecessary. If everyone made an effort to drive at the speed limit this discussion would be moot.
If everybody just drove the speed on the signs
That not what speed signs are for.
They display the maximum speed you can legally drive at.
Not everybody is in a hurry when driving…
Except if you drive notably slower than the maximum speed limit in good driving conditions then you are committing an offence by holding up traffic, and can be fined .
You cannot drive 50 in the 100 zone for example.
That is unsafe as you are travelling at too different a speed compared to vehicles in the other lanes.
Except if you drive notably slower than the maximum speed limit in good driving conditions then you are committing an offence by holding up traffic
Define 'notably slower'…
@jv: There's an example in my reply.
If you are holding up traffic then you are driving too slowly and unless there is a good reason such as bad weather, hazard on the road, car issues (in which case you may need to use your hazard lights depending on how much slower you are going compared to the other road users) then the police may fine you. As far as I am aware most states leave it up to the police to decide whether or not to fine you for this, there is no specific threshold I don't think.
Slower drivers should also stay in the far left lane on highways. I would not be angry at a car driving 90 in a 100 zone in the far left lane.
I would be angry at a car driving 50 in a 100 zone in the middle lane because that's not just rude and inconvenient, it's downright dangerous.If you are holding up traffic then you are driving too slowly
What if you are doing 110 in a 100 zone, and holding up cars wanting to do 120.
Your definition doesn't work… Try again…
@jv: Going over 100 in a 100 zone is illegal so "holding up" people breaking road rules is irrelevant.
I'd say try again but this discussion is boring me now.
Have a nice day and don't forget to wear your seatbelt!
@jv: in WA, a traffic hazard is defined as 20kph under the posted speed limit.
That's why people like farmers driving tractors are allowed to stay on the road verge in e.g. 80 zones, and extra signs are posted in regional areas where road trains may be entering to alert drivers to possible hazards while the trucks slowly get up to speed.
I believe the right lane is for overtaking only on leap years and full blood moons
Lol You may be onto something there.
I sit behind them for 10 second, I tailgate for 10 seconds, high beam and maybe honk…oh, they are an idiot and doing it on purpose, I undertake and get infront without an indicator….maybe they will get it, oh, no they don't because tomorrow, same car again!
Ignorance, entitelment and stupidity…dangerous combination.
Agreed they are either doing it on purpose or so ignorant on what is going on around them (it is often this as I have witnessed too many times an emergency vehicle behind drivers and they have no idea in the world).
I do the same except I indicate in case they are a full-blown idiot and decide to finally accelerate to the speed limit. If they hit me it would be there fault as I indicated.
Agreed they are either doing it on purpose
The probably don't know it's illegal…
If they hit me it would be there fault as I indicated.
Please explain what scenario you're referring to?
If you mean that someone has changed lane into you, after you've overtaken them on the left, than yeah, they're fault. But you indicating doesn't really change the fact they're at fault.
If you're overtaking/changing lanes/merging, and you've hit someone in their own lane, I can't see how just by indicating, you're absolved all fault.
If you ram a car that was indicating thier intention to move into your lane, you are going to have at least a good portion of the fault apportioned to you
edit: just to clarify, you are legally required to take action to avoid a collision
tailgate for 10 seconds, high beam and maybe honk…oh, they are an idiot and doing it on purpose, I undertake and get infront without an indicator
Ignorance, entitelment and stupidity…dangerous combination.
Sounds like all of those apply to you given your behaviour. It's just a road, people are getting from point A to point B and there isn't a time limit (unless you have poor time management). Just chill the hell out.
Not everyone lives their life like they are working for the public service
I sit behind,,, I tailgate… I high beam… I honk….I undertake… I get infront…
I think I saw you on the World's Worst Drivers special on Channel 10 last year just before Xmas…
Hang on.
If it is a case of "people driving on clear empty highway just chilling in the right lane", why are you in the right lane to start with?
I generally put people like yourself in the impatient/arrogant/entitled/just a pea-brain (ID<32) category, who think the whole road should just open up in front of them. That said, I am not here for an argument. The trouble with these kind of threads is that there are many variations of scenarios even with just this right lane rule (e.g. number of lanes, congestion, drivers overtaking but not fast enough for the person behind them would like, safe gap to pull into)
Coming from the UK (quite a while ago now though), the true keep left rule worked great, and when the far right lane queueing happens, it is due to congestion in general. The UK keep left rule is basic, while there isn't really an equivalent rule for Australian roads (apart from do not keep right unless blah blah blah). So what happens on Australian highways, is that general road users spread across all lanes (excluding the reserved right lane) at whatever speed, and anyone who wants to overtake it all needs to go to the right hand lane.
What you describe is not overtaking.
On multi lane roads (2 or more lanes for each direction) if you are in your own lane you can pass vehicles in other lanes adjacent to yours if it's safe.
What you are referring to is when travelling on roads where there's 2 lanes (1 for each direction) or using the shoulder to pass, you can still overtake on the left under certain situations e.g when the front car is turning right.
In NSW where it's 80+ you gotta keep left, and is very rarely enforced, especially down Mona Vale Rd where it's 90 and with many visible signs to keep left literally everyone is sitting in the right lane doing 80 and under.
That is what I’m describing, you are allowed to undertake on multilane freeways, but the safest overtake is always on the right. That’s why the keep left unless overtaking rule is in law. I am keeping left and overtaking people idling on the right. There’s something wrong if people think it’s ok to just hang on the right lane
But there isn't a keep left unless overtaking law.
It would be better to call it 'a do not keep right' law.
You do not have to keep left on a 3 or 4 lane highway. They can use any lane but can only use the right for overtaking (and turning right etc).
The people I'm talking about are not staying on the other 3 lanes, they move and cruise straight into the far right lane. And in my exactly scenario it was the m11 which is dual carriage and people not staying left and just staying on the right.
I’ve seen so many people driving on clear empty highway just chilling in the right lane, forcing me to overtake on the left which is not ideal
So it’s completely empty, so why are you driving on the right lane, needing to use the left to over take?
Keep left and you wouldn’t have had to do anything.
So what’s your problem, OP, with keeping left?
I am on the left and undertaking people. It makes it easier for me because I don’t have to move to the right lane. But it’s not how the freeway was meant to be used.
forcing me to overtake on the left which is not ideal.
I am on the left and undertaking people. It makes it easier for me because I don’t have to move to the right lane.
your two statements contradict
How does it contradict. I am forced to undertake because there is a car to the right of me. Normally I’d be moving right and coming back left.
@asafasr: It contradicts because you said overtake on the left is not ideal, but then go on to say it is easier for you because you don't have to move.
I find it hard to understand how it making life easier for you is not ideal, so much so making life easier for you leads you to come to a forum and complain about the practice.
I always thought that some of them did this but you get the winners like this that camp in the right hand lane 'doing their part for safety' https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8295987/redir
Totally agree and understand the sentiment of keeping left but help me understand this…
If I’m going at, or 1-5km/h over the speed limit on a 100km/h or even a 110km/h freeway and am in the right lane, are you saying I have no business being there if someone is right on my ass tailgating and wanting me to move out of their way so they can continue to speed at 120km/h or more?If you’re not overtaking, you shouldn’t be in the right lane. How hard is it? I don’t care if you’re doing 300km or 50.
But what if I am overtaking the folks in the left lanes going under 100km/h? And also, “I don’t care if you’re doing 300km/h”? That statement throws your whole sentiment of safety right out the window.
If you're overtaking that's fine.
If you're there only because you're doing X speed then no. Go stay on the left lane.
The law about staying out of the right lane doesn't care if you're doing 50 or 300, so asafasr is absolutely correct.
@CMH: Yeah, I definitely am only in the most right lane if I'm overtaking, but that doesn't mean I'm going to speed or hoon. Most of the time though, I encounter reckless drivers who come from behind me at insane speeds even though I'm in the process of overtaking at (or only slightly over) the speed limit.. Sometimes not even giving me enough time to finish overtaking so I can then move back to the middle or left lanes but rather trying to just rush me by tailgating.
So you're saying, the right lane is not just an overtaking lane but it's also a speed as much as you want lane even if it leads to reckless endangerment of other people on the road? Safety and smooth flow of traffic is one thing, but dangerously speeding is another.
@itsmehuey: Speeding is covered in a whole different law. This particular law doesn't mention anything about speeds.
I encounter reckless drivers who come from behind me at insane speeds even though I'm in the process of overtaking
I think a lot of us do encounter these drivers as well. Thankfully most of the time people are patient enough to wait for me to get in front enough to merge back into the left (and I like to leave at least 1-2 car lengths ahead for safety reasons).
Speeding is covered in a whole different law. This particular law doesn't mention anything about speeds.
Yeah I get that. Don't get me wrong, I am totally all for the law of keeping left unless overtaking and understand the need for such rules. But I'm just voicing my view that more often than not, reckless drivers see the right lane as the "I go as fast as I want, so get out of my way" lane.. That lane itself shouldn't negate safe driving and speeding laws.
@itsmehuey: Just to be clear though, we don't want vigilantes controlling the speed limit in te right lane.
It is far safer to left the speeder have the right lane (and let the police deal with that) than have them weaving through the other lanes.We need to remember that we are not law enforcement officers. But we due have a duty to be courteous on the road - even to these speeders.
So if one is coming, we need to abort our slow-vertake and let them go past first.Our problem is we have this culture of "they're breaking the law so they have no rights". I found that Italy has fast highways with few accidents, but a culture of "I would never get caught in the right lane if some one faster caught me there" - I would be a shame to my passengers, I could never confess such an action to friends. It isn't just the speeders that are arrogant drivers in Australia, we all are in our own way. We need to learn to play nice even if we don't condone what someone else is doing.
If you look up traffic management. You’d know it’s about safety and smooth flow of traffic.
If it’s equal to or less then 80km/h, I will drive in whichever lane I choose.
Over 80 roads I always stick to left.
Some people don’t actually know the road rules and have people honk or flash at me. Don’t care.
then get out of the fast lane if you dont want to go fast, or the speed limit. its not up to you to slow people down. You just piss people off which causes more issues.
YMWV.