Let's Talk about Protection, Surge Protection

MissEm on 20/03/2021 - 17:39
Last edited 20/03/2021 - 19:31 by 1 other user

Hey all.

I've fallen into a rabbit hole figuring this .. protection .. out.

Connecting home electrical equipment in Sydney to: $1k monitor, $4k PC with 750W PSU (450W typical consumption)

I probably should go for UPS even if I don't care about the uninterrupted thing itself?

Or shall I as OzBargainer try my luck with say this CyberPower well known brand surge protector?

Considering the PSU is $250 presenting ~5% PC value I am looking for the risk/value justification for UPS vs surge protector.

Like for example Mwave has got this one Cyberpower fairly cheap?

$35 Cyberpower advertises:

Maximum Surge Current: 67,500A
Maximum Surge Voltage: 6,000V
8x AU Outlets, 2x 5V/2.4A USB ports (quick charge dunno?)
No individual switches (don't care)
No aerial (don't care)
Led light indicators (not foolproof)
$50k AUD CEG (yes pitfalls with small print exclusions/record keeping but I don't go down without a big ACL fight)

Unknown:
Power Cut-off upon Protection failure (unknown, All SSD no spinning discs so should I prefer cut-off?)
Certifications (IEC 61643-1 / ANSI/IEEE C62.xx / UL 1449 etc.)

Unknown is whether the thing cuts power when the protection wears out (some spinning discs I believe caused these to be designed as not to stop power in order to allow graceful shutdown) and certifications for testing should be there given it's a reputable brand (?)

Has anyone been deep down the same rabbithole with claiming on CEG and/or having failures with UPS too?

Poll Options expired

  • 6
    UPS
  • 12
    Surge Protection
  • 2
    Other (comment pls)
Electrical & Electronics Surge Protection

Comments

  • This Guy on 20/03/2021 - 18:59
    +4

    A surge protector is a fuse or a (cheap) circuit breaker that will open the circuit at a rated energy. Like most cheap power electronics, they can fail with a very close lightning strike (potentially claim damage on contents insurance under storm damage).

    A UPS is a battery charger, battery and inverter that will provide back up power from the battery when a building's supply goes out.

    UPS's are physically different from surge protectors and often won't provide surge protection. If a UPS provides surge protection it is still worthwhile to use a dedicated surge protector between the UPS and the wall as surge protectors are cheaper to replace than a UPS.

    Surge protectors should generally comply with all of those listed standards.

    If I cared, I would buy Eaton. I don't, so I buy cheapest powerboard with the features I want from Bunnings.

    • SF3 on 20/03/2021 - 19:59
      +2

      $1k monitor, $4k PC

      Could be some weird flex too…

      • MissEm on 20/03/2021 - 21:49

        Yes if you don't count the 10k$'s costing reference monitor over SDI I need to occassionally borrow from work ;)

    • deme on 20/03/2021 - 20:39
      +1

      Fuses and circuit breakers are far too slow for this use case they use MOVs.

      • Master Bates on 20/03/2021 - 23:52

        Do you know much about whole of home Surge Arresters?

        This stops the power spike before it enters the house. Located at the switch or fuse board. This type of surge protection will protect your whole house and all of your appliances from electrical surges.

        I believe they're still MOVs, so not worth exploring?

      • This Guy on 21/03/2021 - 00:39

        KISS

    • MissEm on 21/03/2021 - 00:47

      I was ignorant about UPSes having some magical "better" surge protection like characteristics without really understanding what the surge protection does in detail like what the Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) does and how it wears out…

      Novices like me (to UPS/electrical) tend to easily assume the surge protector feature could be just some service replaceable element inside the UPS that you get inspected & replaced as part of regular maintenance every now and then like fire alarm batteries get.. but makes sense why replace expensive UPS every time the surge protection inside wears out?

      But then again what's the point when we can have surge protection as power strip and UPS behind it?

      yes makes sense finally, thank you all.

      hey it all comes from the wall you just plug it in 🤷‍♀️

      • pjetson on 21/03/2021 - 08:07
        +2

        You can imagine the MOV as a little guy with a sword, chopping off each power surge as it arrives. Eventually, he'll get tired and less effective and some surges will get through. The more that get through, the more likely the little guy will die and then all the surges will get through. All MOVs will eventually give up their life in the fight though.

        You can get small snd wimpy MOV guys, and you can get big and strong MOV guys, but you can't really tell which is which based on price or brand name alone - you need specifications.

        Oh, and you might not be aware that surge protection and overload protection are two completely different and unrelated things. Every power board will have overload protection - it's just a circuit breaker with an external reset button. It simply shuts the power off when you draw too much power, and really it's just there to try to protect the power board itself. It might also stop your house from burning down, but as often as not, it may not.

        Some UPSs will have built-in surge protection, and some UPS technologies will inherently provide much better protection. In many cases, price is a pretty good indicator of what you're getting with a UPS. A $100 UPS will probably provide crappy power quality and little or no effective surge protection.

      • This Guy on 21/03/2021 - 10:51

        Other's are correct. I was incorrect and skipped over a few topics because I just wanted you to understand surge protectors and UPS's are different.

        There are magical UPS's. They are called Power Conditioners. Power conditioners should provide a specified power waveform at a rated load for a given time (hold up time). You use power conditioners for sensitive equipment that needs a clean power waveform. Simply, electronics create noise, making a sinusoid more square.. Rotating machines, like large electric motors, cause AC current to lag AC voltage. Capacitors can help fix this as they cause AC current to lead AC voltage.

        A good UPS power conditioner would use power electronics and not a consumable component like a MOV to control surges. Other people here could provide a better idea of this tech.

        You can also find power conditioners without UPS's or as a component of a power system. It depends on the scale of the power system you are using and names change between industries (IT/Solar/Utilities).

        You would still want surge protectors before a UPS power conditioner as power electronics still have limits and power conditioners cost significantly more than standard UPS's to replace (although they are coming down in price significantly as solar inverters include more and more power conditioner features).

  • deme on 20/03/2021 - 20:40
    -1

    Weird flex imho
    How did you spend $4000 on a desktop and only need 750W PSU. You got ripped off.

    • MissEm on 20/03/2021 - 20:45
      +1

      I am not a gamer I just got some strange expensive hobbies. :)

      Workstation Hackintosh heavy workflows/rendering 3950X, 5700XT and bunch of SSDs and other thunderbolt stuff.

      I did neglect to add that sometimes I have SDI card for color grading.

      • deme on 20/03/2021 - 20:52

        Does it all run fine in 750W?

        • MissEm on 20/03/2021 - 21:42

          Yes, I don't overclock and I got my own settings to ensure it stays in control due to long render times.

      • bargain huntress on 20/03/2021 - 20:57

        some strange expensive hobbies

        please elaborate?

        • MissEm on 20/03/2021 - 21:57
          +2

          experimental VFX

  • deme on 20/03/2021 - 20:44
    +1

    Your PSU is not the only or component that can die via power surges.

    Buy a $200 ups throw everything on it and relax.

    The spinning disk heads crashing is a rare problem that surfaces at scale.

    Data isn't written instantly to disk for ssd or HDD of your care about your data get a ups.

  • impoze on 20/03/2021 - 23:27
    +1

    Had a random power outage recently and was glad I had UPS units running.

    This wasn’t during a storm either, just in the middle of the day.

    • MissEm on 21/03/2021 - 00:37

      Yeah, I'm conditioned to take expensive things off the wall during thunderstorms having lived in rural areas that got battered by thunderstorms as a kid so this long week of deluges has been a bit horror for me in Sydney working from home.

      I'm not too worried about restarting things just worried my pricey posessions I've put a lot of effort building get zapped whist subconsciously counting the latency from the flash to the boom and guessing how far it hit.

      I think I mixed up with UPS/surge protection argument too much as one cannot replace the one another?

      To me it looks like most UPS have very basic if any surge protection and wouldn't it be expensive to replace UPS every time the protection wears out if relying on one in them?

      • Transient on 21/03/2021 - 14:56

        Perhaps have both? https://switchon.eaton.com/plug/article/176/ups-vs-surge-sup… So cheaper surge protector would bear the brunt of the surge, also protecting the UPS to a degree (depending on the size of the surge).

        I guess it depends how often you experience surges around your area and how much you want to spend to protect your investment. Also your level of risk taking. I was thinking of getting a pure sine wave inverter for emergencies, eg, https://outbax.com.au/3-5-kw-silent-inverter-generator, but wishful thinking and a bit overkill. This was when we had a few brownouts and blackouts in Sydney a few years ago.

        You'll notice that the cheaper the surge protector the smaller the joule rating. Also UPS need to have batteries replaced every several years - so ongoing maintenance. Apparently also recommended with surge protectors unless you're willing to take the risk. Surges can damage the protector so it has reduced effectiveness. Also beware of the different types. Some still work after the surge but offer no more surge protection. Some stop working. Also needs to be in a visible spot so you can check the green ok light is still on.

      • impoze on 21/03/2021 - 16:29

        I do too but this wasn't even during a storm.

        Middle of a blue sky day

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