Citibank Credit Cards - Major Changes to Terms and Conditions (6 April 2021)

burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 08:20

Hi y'all,

Last night, a new T&C for Citibank Credit Cards has been released. This will be effective 6 April 2021

https://www.citibank.com.au/premier-var-notice/21.pdf

Normally, I would skip the details and read the summary on things like this but somehow I feel differently this time and lo and behold, the devils are in the details.

Expert interpreters' input are appreciated as I am finding these days I need a degree just to read their T&C due to the introduction of new words and stuff.

In summary, I believe these are the changes:

The Good (and they advertise it really well)

  1. Earn 2 points per $1 spend on ELIGIBLE ONLINE transactions. Previously, the earning is depending on where you spend the money. Eg: Supermarket = 1.5 points. Now, it depends on HOW you pay it. Wait for it.

The Bad

  1. Points are earned now on HOW you pay. As an example, if you buy something from Chemist Warehouse and used Paypal instead of Credit Card option. Not 2 points but 1 point ya! If you buy using credit card but that payment is processed as BPAY, also sorry 1 point for ya. How the system sees as online transaction is defined by Visa/Mastercard. You will only see this in the pdf and FAQ.
  2. For Signature (Premier) and Prestige, you are now capped at 200,000 points per anniversary year. Anniversary is defined as the day when you opened up the card so different every person.

The Unclear or Better

  1. Companion Diners points earning still uncapped
  2. Despite Diners is excluded from earning 2 points for 1, given it is a separate scheme and the points are uncapped, I tend to believe it is still earning 2 points per $1 but I am not sure.

Implications

The biggest change is you are no longer rewarded with higher points for spending on premise. It must be online and must use the store's own payment network instead of other payment processor such as Paypal.

If you pay using Samsung Pay or Apple Pay on online transaction, that won't earn 2 points now. It only earns 1 point.

If Diners 2 for $1 is gone, then RIP Diners. Also, currently if you use Diners at Myers/David Jones, that earns 2 points. Now it is only 1. Same goes with ColesWorths. Basically, ever on premise spend is now 1 point per $1. I will try to find clarification if Diners still earn 2 points for $1 on all spending.

The 200k points are annoying.

For me, the overall change is a negative because I spend a lot on on premise purchases (ColesWorths) and currently earn 2 points per dollar on Diners. It will also direct me to use the merchant's own payment system instead of paypal to earn 2 points which I guess could be a flipside.

Opinions?

Financial Credit Card

Related Stores

Citibank Australia
Citibank Australia

Comments

  • b3au on 26/02/2021 - 08:40

    It must be online and must use the store's own payment network instead of other payment processor such as Paypal.
    If you pay using Samsung Pay or Apple Pay on online transaction, that won't earn 2 points now. It only earns 1 point.

    Apple Pay uses the store's own payment method - it's not 'processed' by Apple like PayPal is - so there should not be any difference between you typing in your 16 digit card number, or using Apple Pay where offered.

    (Samsung Pay can't be used on the web)

    • burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 09:30

      Unfortunately the faq specifically said ApplePay and SamsungPay are NOT treated as online transaction.

      • [Deactivated] on 26/02/2021 - 11:23
        -3

        That's because you're describing something completely different. Apple Pay online is just like entering your credit card number, and is processed like any other online transaction. Samsung Pay and Google Pay aren't usable online. It is correct that Apple Pay in store is not an online transaction, because it's in store (POS credit).

        You're also wrong about this:

        If you buy using credit card but that payment is processed as BPAY, also sorry 1 point for ya. How the system sees as online transaction is defined by Visa/Mastercard

        First, for a payment to traverse BPAY rails, it has to be enacted by using the BPAY functionality in your online banking. Second, "how the system sees an online transaction is defined by Visa/Mastercard" is utter hogwash. An online/internet transaction is an online/internet transaction, period. Visa/Mastercard defines nothing of the sort.

        • burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 11:51

          I don't know why you're so worked up on this. There's no 1st prize for winning an argument. I am just posting what it says online

          The FAQ (https://www1.citibank.com.au/premier-faqs) clearly states

          Are Apple Pay and Samsung Pay considered an online transaction?

          Transactions made via Apple Pay and Samsung Pay are not considered as online transactions.

          Also on the second front,

          What transactions are classified as online spend?

          A transaction qualifies as eligible online spend if it is made via the internet or a mobile application, which is reflected as an online transaction by system indicators and processed by the respective merchants/acquirers as an online transaction through Visa/Mastercard networks. If a transaction with an online merchant is not classified as an online transaction by the card scheme, it will not be treated as an online transaction for calculating Points.

          and

          *For Citi Premier Cardholders –
          Transactions made indirectly with the online merchants (e.g. through a third party provider such as BPAY and PayPal), mobile wallet, recurring payments or with a Linked Diners Club Card are not eligible for the higher earn rate. Please note, a transaction qualifies as an Eligible Transaction made online if it is made via the internet or a mobile application, which is reflected as an online transaction by system indicators and processed by the respective merchants/
          acquirers as an online transaction through Visa/Mastercard networks. If a transaction with an online merchant is not classified as an online transaction by the card scheme, it will not be treated as an online transaction for calculating Points

          • [Deactivated] on 26/02/2021 - 12:06
            -2

            @burningrage: Because you're spreading bad information by adding your totally incorrect interpretations of the terms and conditions. Transactions via Apple Pay online in browser (currently only available in Safari on iOS and macOS) are not distinguishable from punching in a 16 digit card number and will classify, and reward, as an online transaction. That's pure fact.

            As to the rest of it, punching in a card number online (or the merchant using a tokenized card number to charge a saved card) is an online transaction, there's no other kind. Transactions, to the payment processing network, are one of four kinds: Online/Internet, MOTO (Mail Order/Telephone Order), Card Present/POS, and Batch. It would be unusual to classify Batch (which is what iTunes for example charges as) as other than Online, but I suppose wouldn't put that past Citi.

            The only gotcha is Citi's addition of "System Indicators" - this isn't controlled by merchants or card networks, this is Citi using some sort of analysis to separately classify transactions in some totally opaque way to determine whether they want to issue rewards or not.

            • burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 12:24

              @[Deactivated]: Are you working at Citibank? How can you be so sure?

              I've spoken to them 30 minutes ago on a matter about Diners and they confirmed to me any transactions that are settled by way of third party providers including Apple Pay/Samsung Pay/Paypal will not be counted as a double pointer for the purpose of their definition of "online transaction". It is still online transaction in everyone's language but not in the eyes of Citibank for the purpose of double pointer.

              I don't how it works but do notice at times for example when I pay my TLS bill, the line that comes out says "Paypal TEL". I am guessing that would be an example. I am not sure about ApplePay/SamsungPay. I don't use them so can't tell what it looks like on the statement.

              Either way, the way the T&C is worded is full of ambiguity which I did say at the start. That's why I had to ring them.

              On account of Diners, they said after 6th of April, you will continue to earn 2 points per $1 (and uncapped) as Diners is a separate scheme altogether. I asked them to provide that clarification in writing but wouldn't hold my breath.

              • burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 16:15

                @burningrage: UPDATE:

                T1 has called back saying Diners will continue to be 2 for $1 uncapped points for now.

        • kerfuffle on 27/02/2021 - 07:29

          You can use Google Pay online.

          Source: I’ve done it before

  • capslock on 26/02/2021 - 08:48

    For Coles and Woolworths purchases you should really be buying giftcards at 3-4% off. Much better than any credit card earning rates. You even earn credit cars points for buying the gifcard.

    How many people here are actually going to be affected by the 200,000 cap?

    I think the changes are good. I would probably spend more online than I would at 'restaurants, hotels & airlines' which are currently the only ones earning 2 points per dollar.

    This card has poor rewards overall though so I hardly use it. My spend all goes into my 1 Qantas point per $1 Mastercard.

  • burningrage on 26/02/2021 - 09:36

    If i buy ColesWorth GC at 4% off, chances are I wont be able to buy using the companion Diners. At Coles itself it will be double points but I take your point. 4% off is still better than double points that comes from Diners.

    Other opinions?

  • DamonT on 26/02/2021 - 09:59

    Thanks for the detail OP

  • whooah1979 on 26/02/2021 - 10:30

    How many points does it take to redeem a $100 credit or gift card?

    • Colin2905 on 27/02/2021 - 18:08
      +1

      40,000 points for $100 cashback. 20,900 points for a $100 gift card. (Higher gift card values give slightly better bang for buck.)

      I used to redeem the credit card points for Velocity Frequent Flyer points when there was a transfer bonus offer, but there's no "point" in me doing that for the foreseeable future. :(

  • T-man on 26/02/2021 - 13:42

    I closed all my Visa and Master Card, only using Amex and if the merchant doesn’t accept Amex I use the gift card that I bought using my Amex card. All other cards are crap in Australia since royal commission.

  • kev98 on 26/02/2021 - 22:38
    +1

    How many people still have their free for life cards?

    • burningrage on 27/02/2021 - 11:06
      +1

      I still do

    • Colin2905 on 27/02/2021 - 18:28
      +1

      Me three. It spent a long time in the drawer whilst I played the signup bonus churning game, but now those days are over (for me), it's my main card again. My secondary card is a Bankwest Zero Platinum, for avoidance of international transaction fees.

      Mrs 2905 still has an Amex Explorer, but that will be closed soon. In our case, the value in the $400 travel credit is no longer there, and I can't remember how long it's been since there was an Amex offer of use to us. (If Mrs 2905 can be bothered making the call then I might get her to downgrade it to the Essentials card, just in case they lift their game with the offers in future.)

  • povertytrap on 27/02/2021 - 13:09

    Me too

  • cashless on 28/02/2021 - 14:42
    +1

    If PayPal is not eligible as “online payment “, then that’s almost misleading by Citi.
    A lot of people use PayPal to pay for goods bought online. PayPal covers you for return shipping costs, which is handy.

  • beneuto on 01/03/2021 - 20:32

    I thought that they had previously stopped giving any points on BPay purchases.

    • burningrage on 01/03/2021 - 20:37

      Last time I paid my Council Rates (which uses BPAY) I am still getting points

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