This is an exciting news for all the EV fans.
This is the price where I think I can afford to buy one. How about you? 🚗
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/all-new-tesla-…
Tesla Model 2 Coming to Australia
ECE on 11/02/2021 - 21:33
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plenty of elons musketeers in this thread.
enjoy your mk1.0 electric car. Ill wait for the big boys to turn up like Toyota or Volkswagen
Tesla has a first-mover advantage. Other EV makers have to work twice as hard to catch up.
Toyota and all the other players get the free market and engineering research that Tesla has done for them.
Then they can continue to make cars that the world already love, well engineered and EV.
They already have the systems, factories and people in place to make cars, they just need to transition.
Other car makers doing EV already outsell Tesla in some european markets (VW and Audi)
Tesla because of their recent news will get a new type of customers. People rich with digital assets and willing to spend.
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/tesla-buys-15b-b…
SILVER SPRING, Md. — Holders of Bitcoin may be able to cash in some of their investment in the digital currency for a brand new electric car.
Then they can continue to make cars that the world already love, well engineered and EV.
You're right, but their brand isn't synonyms with EV.
It's hard to sell people Pepsi when all they know is Coca-Cola. It took Samsung years and years to make a dent in Apple's iPhone sales. Apple still holds the top spot with their iPad brand. Ask any child and they'll say iPad and not a Samsung Galaxy Tab blah blab.
@whooah1979: Fair comment, I could see Tesla becoming the Apple of EV's and everyone else being the collective Android of EVs
Tesla is now worth more than the next 10 automakers combined. Why? Familiarise yourself with the concept of ‘stranded assets’
@Boogerman: dont pick and chose what you reply.
Yes thats correct, but in probably the very same article it also mentions the words "Bubble". Tesla manufacture a "token" amount of cars per year versus the other makers, what Tesla has is a fanboi base and a demigod who can post 1 word on twitter and the sharemarket, crypto market, etc goes crazy.
some car makers will indeed become stranded assets - but I dare say these would be very high quality cars who will hang on to the bitter end to maintain the car loves who buy their cars.
Big name mainstream cars like Toyota, BMW, Audi, VW, Hyundai etc are all on the EV bandwagon but traveling at different speeds to get there. What they have that Tesla does not is decades and decades of designing, engineering and manufacturing cars
@[Deactivated]: No, they have decades of designing, engineering & manufacturing internal combustion engine cars, a.k.a stranded assets
Hence, why Tesla is years ahead of them on EVs (leaving aside charging infrastructure, batteries & solar) & valued accordinglyHence, why Tesla is years ahead of them on EVs
Think you'll find this was the case 5 years ago. I'm not sure the gap is that big now.
Other companies don't just get all the technology that Tesla has researched.
The thing that sets Tesla apart from other companies is that they are a technology company as much as a car company.
The thing that sets them back is their garbage QA@Zondor: I am sure the other car makers in developing their own EV tech have purchased Tesla's and have pulled them a part to do research or compare tech
@Zondor: You dont need to copy and break the law to learn and better existing designs and engineering.
A break through is only an idea away - toyota already looks like its making breakthroughs on its new battery technology, far superior to Teslas as well
@Zondor: Garbage QA, cheap construction, poor human interfaces, anti-consumer repair practices.
As for getting their technology / patent protection: https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-y…
First mover advantage implies they are gaining a majority market share. Unfortunately they have not been able to build cars fast enough and have squandered a lot of their advantage.
Competitors are trying to build an electric car on their existing platforms as building a new plant is a serious investment. The advantage Tesla has is a purpose built plant, but not better technology, not better build quality, not better marketing. In the long term I don't expect Tesla will remain a market leader in motor vehicles. They will transition away and focus on charging stations and battery technology. They have always been a battery company 1st and car company 2nd
Except their technology is better. Their cars are more efficient, their battery chemistry and pack design is bespoke, and not off the shelf like most manufacturers. This means better longevity, charging speeds, density and performance. Then we can talk about vertical integration, where economies of scale mean that Tesla's margins are the second best in the automotive industry, behind Porsche (Porsche as a company, not their EVs). You say they haven't built cars fast enough, but they literally made their stated objective this year by building 500k cars, which was predicted in 2014. The Model 3 is the best selling EV in the world, and their market share is hard to determine, because no one takes stats on pure EVs, instead including PHEV too.
The fact is that the technological and pricing advantage Tesla has is immense. Most legacy OEMs have now released their first generation products, and the VW, Audi, BMW, and Jag products have all fallen short of even the 2012 Model S, let alone the current products, which is probably 4th Gen with the Model Y, and 5th Gen with the upcoming Model S Plaid. Porsche got close, slightly better performance than the 2nd Gen Model S, but worse range, less practicality and double the price.
And then there's autopilot. No one is close to FSD tech. The latest betas are years ahead of anything on the road. The processing power alone makes all other OEM tech look ancient.
@[Deactivated]: The battery chemistry is Panasonic’s. Margins are great when you’re selling Great Wall at Porsche prices. The current 3 and Y are 1980s quality interiors. S and X are priced into a niche. They’re definitely more competitive than the 3 and Y though most of their customers are taking the hit in quality because their preferred brands don’t have the right drivetrain yet.
I don’t think most people are aware of what other manufacturers actually have in terms of self driving because they talk it dow comparatively in the name of less fatalities. No doubt Tesla is still well ahead, but they’re way behind their marketing, and seemingly reckless with it to the point that I’m never going to be comfortable with any ‘self driving’ they put out, but I’m more likely to accept the technology from a more cautious competitor.
For Toyota and VW, making EV is not difficult.
While changing point of view is, car industry not have any revolutionary improvement for decades, today people want more than only a good car.
Compare with why purchase car from China, I may ask why Australian car manufactures all die.
All Chinese car brands are trash - but don't misquote me here
made in china - ok
designed and engineered in China - trash (LDV, Cherry, great wall, MG, etc)Chinese car makers are making a car to suit their customers, who I guess rather have cheap than quality
Market will tell which is trash, none will be smarter thank market.
Chinese car may find a gap between quality and cheap, and yes same price same specs none will purchase a car with Chinese brand, even with quality, so Chinese cars are just a choice.
Several reasons, strong unions, small markets, high costs and poor quality, and no support from their parent companies.
Mass production of goods does not suit Australia for many reasons. It only survived in the past protected by high import tariffs, corporate tax cuts, and high shipping costs.
Yes, revolutionary improvement is really needed for Australian manufactures.
One of the biggest reasons is the amount of minerals we export props up the AUD something fierce. Manufacturing was killed when the AUD went above the USD during the GFC. Without the mineral wealth the AUD would be much lower and our wages and exports would be more competitive of course imports would be pricier. Also shipping from Australia to any big market is expensive, unless there’s a compelling reason to build here companies would rather build where there are bigger economies of scale.
Will the Tesla model 1 be a bike?
Unicycle Segway.
Thanks. Will buy 4.
Isnt the waiting list already so long.
I would love a Tesla but unfortunately i cannot afford one
When will they actually be delivered? 2025?
4 years away would be better for me; I will only need to save 9K a year. ($350/fortnight).
Maybe I could do it in recycling; 250 cans/bottles per day.
I'd buy it at the $32,000 the OP refers to. But Musk's "US$35,000" car, the Model 3, costs $70,000 in Australia, so I expect his "US$25,000" car, the model 2, would cost $50,000 here. I applaud Musk for the cars he's built, but they are way out of my price range. There is no reason he can build and sell electric cars any cheaper than anyone else. And perhaps not even as cheap as anyone else because he loads them up with self-driving hardware and development costs.
They never released the $35k in overseas market. The car we get is the SR+, which is about $USD40k. Tesla pricing is the same everywhere in the world, + taxes and import costs.
There are reasons why they build cars cheaper than everyone else: vertical integration is the primary one.
The main one is actually just designed to be cheap, less components like manual wiper adjustment = cheaper. Safety hazard, but cheaper.
Of course they’re still not building cheaper anyway, there’s a reason why they’re shipping few to none of the base models.
In the US they get tax incentives and so the US prices are actually factoring in negative taxes, vs our higher taxes and no incentives.
Renewable is not as green as many may think.
Lifecycle of the vehicle is pretty dirty. Purely shifting the crap from developed world to countries that dig up rare earth, and ones manufacturing the battery.
Repurposing used batteries will also be a challenge.
I see this said a lot. I looked at Life Cycle Assessments conducted in the last four years, and every single one found that the life cycle of a battery EV is significantly better than that of an ICE. You are correct in saying the manufacturing of an EV is about twice as dirty or intense as an ICE vehicle. But the Life Cycle Emissions of an ICE vehicle come from its burning of petrol or diesel. They're usually twice as bad in the end. And that's not to mention the actual toxic fumes from petrol cars that we all have to breathe in everyday. Problems with battery recycling I'd take over breathing diesel and combustion fumes.
Life cycle assessments include mining, manufacturing, recycling, disposal, even sensitivity studies of worst coal powered grid vs actual grid mix. They're probably the most comprehensive kind of environmental study humanity has. It should address every one of your concerns if you are interested. They also aren't blind to emissions being shifted to other countries.
I encourage you to google LCA GHG emissions EV vs ICE and have a look for yourself. EVs aren't spotless, but they're vastly better than ICEs.
Yes. The difference is not as significant as what some may think.
I am thinking whether Hydrogen will work out better than EV or ICE.
It won’t, there’s less efficiency in making hydrogen.
The lowest emissions is not buying a new car but unless you don’t drive very far a battery electric vehicle will win for total emissions hands down. It’s looking like the batteries will typically last several decades excluding extreme use cases, and they can be reused in home batteries for some time after that.
This will hurt the brand's perceived value…when you start making lower quality cheaper models….just like BMW and Mercedes…they are a dime a dozen now…
I see that in the next 10 odd years, selling the car will break even in product cost. Software is where money will be made - 1. auto pilot 2. software in managing engine performance 3. others (who knows what else is coming)
For the right price you can autopilot a vehicle right into your nemesis!
Exactly. The future will be less about the cars and more about automation, tracking and eventually total control of how we get from A to B.
When there is word of the Cybertruck coming to Australia then we'll talk.
I hear touchscreens are going after 5/6 years.
At this price they would be going in2/3 years.
Then what?
ACL.
Always fun when you’re driving down the highway in the wet and you cannot adjust the wipers because you need to do it on the now broken touch screen. Warranty and she’ll be right, if you make it home alive.
Made in China. Lol.
My impression with Tesla so far have been build first fix later, can a fully MIC model reverse that?
My impression with Tesla so far have been build first fix later
That is very correct! Watch the interview with Munro and Elton kind of acknowledges so.
So by now they are learning and (perhaps) building "already fixed" cars.
Problem is: there isn't something nearly similar to buy.
Meaning a low cost EV.
Unless EV cheaper than petrol cars, there is no incentive to get one right now. You might able to shave off CO2 a bit but financially it's horrible, you don't pay for petrol but you're paying 2x the premium for a vehicle technically in the same class
They're not really compelling at the moment in Australia for those that don't 'have to' have an EV. We don't have any real incentives on them, and if you don't have solar you might not even save on fuel costs compared to a petrol or diesel car (depending on what the price of each does in the future).
They don't need to be 'cheaper' though, just more in the realm of a drive train option pack extra vs double, at least if you don't regularly visit the remote outback.
And they need to be usable without everything being 3 layers deep in a touch screen if it's an optional fine (but not ideal for some) if it's a safety feature it needs some way of controlling it without taking your eyes off the road.
our government should do more. there is no incentive for going ev from a coal hugging, boomer head, dinosaur mentality, sexist, 60s suit wearing people in the parliament.
i don't give a shit my iPhone is made in china, (if the product is good bang for buck, quality/price) i buy Chinese, African, Madagascar, Amazonian, Martian. and yeh i dont like the Chinese government but ill still buy their shit if its good price/quality. like some xiaomi products like the handheld vacuum, the smart fan, they do have some good stuff for great price.
At least you are very honest for sure :-)
I'm with you and don't mind Chinese products. Ironically many people don't even realise that a lot of their car parts actually do come from China but they relate their car to other countries. It's also manufacturers' way to lower the price of products i.e. if you want something built in higher quality controlled countries, be prepared with a much more expensive price tag.
^^ This guy speaks the truth, unlike a lot of hypocrites.
Truth be told, the west/richer nations just want a country who can make their shit cheaply. Most companies will want to make it in china, but china is far more costly now as their workers have 10x higher wages than before and 10x more rights (yes really, we deal with this for bread and butter). So the argument really is the same and has two perspectives
1. Companies say they are moving manufacturing out of china because of diversification/human rights etc etc but in reality it's just too expensive now.
2. People say they won't buy cheap mic goods, but in reality, China doesn't want to make our shit kmart stuff anymore.Most larger companies have moved onto India/Vietnam (so have we). And honestly, purely because it's cheaper.It's an absolute headfk atm, so expect your cheap products to be a bit worser quality for the next 10 years until vietnam picks up it's infrastructure and cultural compliance to deal with achieving western qc.
Lucky I like pho bo.
I don't think the majority of those who are against MIC stuff is because of politics, I believe it is more because of quality controls and company cultures, like selling stuff with known issues or food with harmful substance, etc. Those might be a thing in the past (or still continues, who knows), but the damage has been done, its hard to regain people's trust.
the price they mentioned is just a for clickbait.
If it is under my budget, I would buy a Tesla just for the sake of not having to deal with the car dealers..
We're aren't talking about Holden.