Isn't It Kind of Crappy Towards Society to Buy a Lot (if Any) Investment Properties?

Lockdude on 18/01/2021 - 10:48
Last edited 18/01/2021 - 10:49

So, I'm by no means an expert in this, so I thought I'd come to this forum to get some opinions from people who hopefully know what they're talking about, people defending their own behaviour to make peace with their god, and people who don't know what they're talking about, but want to talk about it anyway.

So here goes: Isn't it kind of crappy to buy a bunch of investment properties? I get the feeling landlords feel like they're doing lower income households a solid by providing them with a roof over their head - but I've never understood that. If so many people didn't go out of their way to own so many more properties than they needed, housing would be a lot more affordable right? The supply would be so much higher, and the demand would be lower. The threshold for buying a house would be a lot lower, and people could enter into the market earlier.

It's just a rich get richer thing right? Buy investment properties, and it inadvertently pushes up the price of your own home. You make it harder for people to buy a home, and in doing so, can raise the rent you charge.

I currently don't own any home, but my savings are getting to a point (finally) where I can start to think about the longer-term future. And having been a renter my whole life, as were my parents, the thought of buying extra homes to line my own pockets at the expense of another just seems like a real jerk move.

Knowledgeable experts, unknowledgeable experts, and moral justifiers, please share your thoughts.

Poll Options

  • 594
    Buy as many investment properties as you'd like
  • 213
    Just buy a house to live in - invest in other things
  • 74
    One investment property is fine
Financial

Comments

    • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 08:27

      Receiving payment for supplying goods or services is now called "leeching". Socialism is a hell of a drug.

      • create on 22/01/2021 - 10:49

        It's not a good or service! It's somewhere somebody has to live. And profiting off that is morally wrong no matter how you look at it.

        • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:06

          Lol of course it's a service.

          It is not at all morally wrong. As I said to the other guy, food is an "essential", yet people aren't crying that Coles and Woolies make money.

          • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:07

            @brendanm: Brain worms

            • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:07

              @create:

              my argument doesn't stand up to any sort of critical thinking, so I'll just have a sook.

              Ok.

          • Autonomic on 22/01/2021 - 16:02
            +1

            @brendanm: How have prices of food staples held against inflation and wage growth?

            https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/food-inflation

            • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 17:07
              -2

              @Autonomic: The price isn't the issue apparently, it's that someone is making profit.

              Also, the whole country is not Sydney and Melbourne, as hard as that may be to believe. Have a look at pricing in the other capitals, and compare it with inflation.

              The reason prices are high in Melbourne and Sydney is seen in this thread. People will sell their mother and their first born to live there for some reason. Instead of looking elsewhere, they eat 2 minute noodles for 10 years to get a deposit on a $800k shithole in Blacktown, for a mortgage that they can barely afford to service. If that's your idea of a good time, go for your life.

    • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 09:57

      Why is how people spend their money your business? If they have enough money to buy a property and then lease it out why do you care? If you had the money would you not do the same thing?

      • create on 22/01/2021 - 10:53

        If you have enough money to buy more than one investment property, you don't need to.

        • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 10:54

          Why not? Its an investment tool like any other. Do you admonish people for buying shares or bonds?

          • create on 22/01/2021 - 10:55

            @Piranha2004: Of course not. I have a lot of shares myself, but it's not the same as profiting off somebody's livelihood.

            • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 11:00
              +3

              @create: Lol yes it is. Do you have Woolworths shares? Do you recall how Woolworth's underpaid their workers? Wesfarmers, 7-eleven just to name a few. Just because someone purchases a house doesnt make them "profiting off somebody's livelihood".

            • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:07

              @create: You are a massive hypocrite. The companies you have shared in male profit while charging people for goods/services.

              • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:08
                -1

                @brendanm: @Piranha2004 It's not my job to police what businesses are doing shady shit. The bottom line is companies like Wesfarmers, etc create jobs, while landlords are doing nothing but leeching off society.

                • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:09
                  +1

                  @create: 😂😂😂

                  The tears of the perpetual renter.

                  • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:09

                    @brendanm:

                    my argument doesn't stand up to any sort of critical thinking, so I'll just have a sook.

                    Ok.

                    • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:10
                      +1

                      @create: If you don't like renting, buy. Then those evil landlords won't make any money off you.

                • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 11:11

                  @create: Actually no. Investment property is making an informed financial decision.Sometimes it fails sometimes it doesnt (many people lose money in property). Its not my problem people cant manage their own finances. Would you prefer it if everyone bought their own properties and no one was allowed to rent?

                  • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:15

                    @Piranha2004: @brendanm Lads I'm not against people buying ONE investment property, but people buying more than one are doing nothing but pushing up housing prices so nobody can buy. That's what the thread is about.

                    • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 11:18

                      @create: Whats the difference between one and more? Just because someone saves up and is able to buy more doesnt make them "leeches". It makes them financially knowledgeable. If I have money to burn, what business is it of yours where I spend it? Again, you are assuming everyone is negative gearing which is incorrect.

                      • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:21

                        @Piranha2004: Again, it's about the moral implications, which depends person to person I guess. If you're okay with making money at the expense of others, good for you.

                        • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 11:23

                          @create: Literally any positive investment is "making money at the expense of others". How do you think small lenders, banks and cash converters operate? If you are worried about "moral implications" then I would avoid going outside as the whole world is morally bankrupt.

                          • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:25

                            @Piranha2004: Banks charging interest isn't the same thing as having 10 investment properties.

                            • Piranha2004 on 22/01/2021 - 11:30

                              @create: RBA cash rate is 0.1% but banks charge 3% + for loans and 12%+ for credit cards. Not morally wrong according to you. But someone who has more than one property is the worst thing in the world. Why do you see landlords as "leeching off others" anyway? They are providing people a place to stay who cant afford their own home. If you dont like it, you can always put yourself in the queue for public housing. That way you can accuse the government of leeching.

                              • create on 22/01/2021 - 11:33
                                +1

                                @Piranha2004: Damn yall hostile af 😂😂
                                I know we aren't gonna be able to agree on anything so let's quit while we're ahead. You win!

                                • cheapaschips on 22/01/2021 - 23:25
                                  -1

                                  @create: Open real-estate or domain app. There are thousands of properties in your city.

                                  Stop complaining about rent. Save up and buy one like everyone else.

                                  People keep talking like all the house are sold. They keep building more and more and more. Hundreds of new suburbs have popped up over the past few years.

                                  Once again. GO BUY A HOUSE, if you don't want to pay a landlord.

                                  Remember the landlord would be paying the same as you if your purchased the house. They aren't being sold it for cheaper.

                                  let me repeat it for a third time. GO BUY A HOUSE..plenty out there.

                        • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 19:22
                          -1

                          @create:

                          making money at the expense of others,

                          This is every good or service.

                    • brendanm on 22/01/2021 - 11:29
                      -1

                      @create: No they aren't. People willing to pay anything to live in certain places is what's pushing house prices up.

            • drfuzzy on 22/01/2021 - 12:51
              -1

              @create: Do you own Amazon shares? You disproportionately contributed to the destruction of the lives of millions of families closing their small business.
              Do you own Facebook or Google? You are a monopolist feeding off the prostitution of the personal data of others
              Do you own Tobacco? Your dividends are blood money sucked from the corpses of addicts.
              Do you own mining? You are an environmental rapist
              Do you own Index Funds? You are all of the above.

              Want to repent? Try buying an investment property and rent it to a deserving family.

              • Autonomic on 22/01/2021 - 16:03
                +2

                @drfuzzy: Buying a share of a company doesn't give that company money.

                • Ghost47 on 22/01/2021 - 18:04

                  @Autonomic: If they buy on an IPO it does. Majority of trades do not occur through IPOs though and instead are on secondary markets. It's a common misconception amongst people who don't know much about the sharemarket.

        • Ghost47 on 22/01/2021 - 11:35

          The thing is most Aussies are clueless about investing. They go to a barbeque where their mate says "property doubles every 7 years" and then they go out and buy property expecting it to double in 7 years.

          People will often say that shares are gambling. Australians are simple investors who need to see and touch their investments to make them feel safe.

  • GUYANDSON on 21/01/2021 - 13:04

    Don't blame the players, I'd be pretty confident that the majority of LL's with multiple IP's are just trying to make it like you and me. Investing in property is one of the most conventional ways of doing it and most would just be playing to the market.

    Gotta look at the govt for fueling and enabling the ridiculous game.

  • CalmLemons on 21/01/2021 - 13:11
    +2

    You need to read a book on economics and how the economy works.

    There is a reason why nearly every countries economic stimulus is pretty much build build build.

    I don't believe you're going to get a decent in context answer here, you will get a better picture if you understand the basics of the western economic system.

    Unfortunately, you are simply going to have two types of perspectives/opinions on here, those that own, those that don't. Neither party is going to convince each other that they are right.

    In the end, it is what you want and what YOU want to achieve in life. Basing your economic decisions on pseudo moralistic stances isn't the best choice.

    Who cares what other people do, you do what is right by you.

  • whiteflame on 21/01/2021 - 16:58
    +2

    500+ votes for buy as many as you like -
    I think the main reason is because the government incentivise it. Everyone is playing within the rules, some play the rules better than the rest, who may end up with more investment properties than others.

    I wonder those people who fancy smash avos everyday, and take a leap year after high school, and take holidays every year on here commenting

    • pogichinoy on 21/01/2021 - 18:08
      +3

      I too would like to not have to prepare for the future and live life like today was my last day, but also comfortably have easy access to buy a home near the affluent/trendy suburbs of my capital city.

      • cheapaschips on 21/01/2021 - 19:25
        +2

        From reading this thread I've changed my mind. What I've learnt my needs are that ..

        I too would like to make no sacrifices( I might possibly only eat out twice a week instead of 3 times but that is so tough and a big sacrifice). Keep all other luxuries(you only live once !) ..live near my parents (possibly in affluent suburbs) and also my work (also possibly affluent suburb ) and also near all major CBD and beach areas (why should I live so far from such lovely places)

        Within a reasonable price(what I deem to be reasonable and what I can afford on my salary at any given time)

        How dare they not allow me to purchase such a property !!

  • Dotaguy on 21/01/2021 - 20:42
    +2

    Anecdotal evidence ofc but one of the wealthiest property investors I know also happens to be the most miserly people I know as well.

    This guy has 20+ properties across Australia worth millions, could easily retire etc etc. He was also the kind of guy to count savings down to the cent (also introduced me to ozbargain lmao) I distinctly remember he would minimise every expense he could even tho he was a senior guy with a salary. Cut his own hair, would walk 30min just so he could park in free spots instead of paying for parking etc.

    Just because someone has money doesn’t mean they have the same lifestyle, which is just like saying just because someone doesn’t have money they can’t have a better lifestyle. It’s all about personal choices

    • Ghost47 on 22/01/2021 - 11:37

      Sounds like a problem with him more than anything, and I'm not trying to insult the guy either. If he has abundance but feels like he has nothing that's somewhat concerning and he should try to enjoy what he has.

      • Dotaguy on 22/01/2021 - 11:55
        +1

        It’s not an insult but I think it’s unfair to impose your values onto other people. Just like I don’t have an issue with people on low incomes spending a higher proportion of income for a better lifestyle, I don’t fault wealthy people for being misers because it’s a personal choice.

        If anything I was just highlighting that I know of wealthy people who live more frugally and compromise more on lifestyle than those without a lot of wealth, a reflection on attitude and perspective really

        • mr_asstight on 25/01/2021 - 10:04

          There's no gain without sacrifices. I go out of my way to not pay for parking, enrol in uni just to get a student card for discounts, etc

  • Duckie2hh on 22/01/2021 - 10:01

    Stop buying smashed avocado's and start buying real estate.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2021 - 10:07
    -1

    Interesting poll result. So Broden is bad only when he buys all the eneloops, but Broden is good when he buys everyone’s shelter?

    • whooah1979 on 22/01/2021 - 10:14

      First in, best dressed.

    • cheapaschips on 22/01/2021 - 10:56

      Difference being there is thousands of properties on the market now. When broden buys his enelooops there is none left.

      Everyone in this thread complaining can go buy a house now if they wanted , but they haven't saved so they won't

      What they will do is continue complain how it is so difficult to get a deposit and do nothing, while the rest of us just start working towards it and get on with it.

  • 91rs on 22/01/2021 - 11:23

    Decades of crappy TV shows that glorify renovations, adding fake value with cheap mods, flipping and making your fortune at the cost of others has been fed to anyone who's watched TV, it's been so ramped up in the last decade or two it's just stupid.
    It's all about propping up the stupid cost of housing in Australia and making sure that housing is a luxury item and not a basic need for people that is affordable and allows stability in people's lives.
    The Australian government, state and local councils live off the stamp duties for all the buying and selling going on, that's something they are trying to keep going, it's not sustainable. This is why they're pushing for annual land taxes as they know it's going to dry up sometime.

    Encouraging multiple families to pool funds to outbid others (first home buyers) at auction to buy an overpriced piece of crap to throw some paint around and put in some tacky light fittings then try and sell for an even larger profit to some first home buyer is where I have issues with the excessive drive to turn regular people in to property investors.
    The bang for buck of housing is just offensive in Australia given the lack of quality of work found in many homes and we should be trying to avoid increasing the house cost while the quality remains so poor.

    • Ghost47 on 22/01/2021 - 11:40

      The bang for buck of housing is just offensive in Australia given the lack of quality of work found in many homes and we should be trying to avoid increasing the house cost while the quality remains so poor.

      Building quality, especially apartment buildings, in this country is such a cause for concern. I'm talking Opal and Mascot, and the fire cladding debacle too. One major issue is how these will be repaired or demolished. I feel extremely sorry for anyone who bought an apartment in those buildings, they'd have to be furious.

      It's actually disgustingly sad that we have buildings of such low quality in what could be considered a developed nation.

    • nephilim on 22/01/2021 - 16:49

      Worse is the American renovation shows, they literally hire illegal hispanic workers and brag how they made 50k in 1month of work.
      Then we have the block, were they had 50 workers for 1 house, yet show the main couple paint a wall.

  • Blackadda on 22/01/2021 - 13:24
    +3

    This question is repeated often but shows an ignorance to basic economic principles. … the question of is it 'selfish' depends on what people do with them, but most want to rent them out and that in itself is not selfish and the demand for rentals drives the rent asked (more so than the associated costs) so if rents are high its because THERE ISN'T ENOUGH VACANT PROPERTIES WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE.

    Without investors less properties will be built, less places to live = higher cost of living. If you want to look at some of the factors that make home ownership unaffordable look at the state taxes, massive transaction taxes on disposing a property means people will always rent if they dont' have a long term commitment to an area and people won't buy/sell quickly … Also the way a lot of our good developable land is locked up to NIMBY's forces development to the fringes which means there's an ever increasing demand to upgrade to get those inner sproperties which pushes prices up and has a trickle down effect.

    It's cyclical, people get on the property wagon in those outter burbs slowly build up equity, use that equity to trade up, constantly pushing prices up which makes their existing abode relatively cheaper… so it goes up in price and so on.

    Institutional grade investment in resi is coming though so it should provide better rental housing .. meaning life long renting shouldn't have to be as painful as it is now.. but if you want to own you just got to get on that train as soon as you're able if that's through an investment property first just do it.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 22/01/2021 - 23:44
    +1

    Isn't it kind of crappy to tell people what they can and can't do with their hard earned cash in a free society.

  • ilove on 25/01/2021 - 15:39

    Is it possible to have a just price on everything?

  • cloclo on 28/01/2021 - 00:05

    Isn't it kind of crappy to buy a bunch of investment properties?

    Not when homes earn more than jobs: real home prices across Australia have climbed 150% since 2000, while real wages have climbed by less than a third.

    We all know who to blame for that. Remember that come election time.

    • 00 on 28/01/2021 - 01:17

      foreign investment?

      • whooah1979 on 28/01/2021 - 09:48

        https://www.savings.com.au/home-loans/can-foreigners-buy-inv….

        Commercial property made up $73 billion of this, while residential property made up the remaining $14.8 billion.

        Investors from the United States ($19.6 billion) were the biggest buyers of Australian real estate for the second consecutive year, followed by investors from Canada ($13.3 billion), Singapore ($9.8 billion), Hong Kong ($9.3 billion) and China ($6.1 billion).

    • mr_asstight on 28/01/2021 - 11:43

      Wages buy more when interest rate drops. So the RBA have been backstopping the wage stagnation.

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