Building a New House: What Should I Look for in a Builder

Lgramoras on 17/12/2020 - 22:36

So my parents, after years of living in a pre-built house, have suddenly decided that they want to build a home for themselves. Partly because their old house is falling apart and they really want a new house and partly because they have watched one too many episodes of the Block (they initially thought they could do some of it themselves…that was a hard argument).

Never having built myself and having heard one too many horror stories, I thought I would ask the wider community about what they would look for in a good builder and their experiences of the same. I have heard that building costs are always much lower on paper and then get wildly overinflated once the build starts. How can I protect my folks from being stiffed out of their savings? What do they absolutely need to nail down on paper to prevent any surprises later? What do you need to have in the contract?

Thanks in advance!

Home & Garden

Comments

  • soan papdi on 17/12/2020 - 23:00
    -1

    Easier and safer to get an off the plan new home.

    • netjock on 17/12/2020 - 23:23

      Even then the sketches / imagery is over stating it all. Buy completed new build and you can see it in the flesh.

      • elgrande on 18/12/2020 - 06:23

        Even that's risky, the slab could crack. Buy an established home that has been lived in for atleast 35 years.

        • Seraphin7 on 18/12/2020 - 09:15
          +9

          Even that's risky. Who knows what's hidden under the surface and about to blow up?

          Cave is the safest option.

          • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:46

            @Seraphin7: The internet connection might be tricky for that one.

        • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:45
          +1

          Their current house is 35+ years and the only thing keeping it standing is the equally old furniture.

          • [Deactivated] on 18/12/2020 - 14:09

            @gramoras: What kind of shitty house falls apart after 35 years? If you go with a rubbish mass builder that's probably what you get.

            • bliss35 on 18/12/2020 - 14:12

              @[Deactivated]: Sounds like you've been burnt before, Mr negativity.

              • [Deactivated] on 18/12/2020 - 14:12

                @bliss35: What is negative about that? You'd expect a house to still be going strong for at least a century. 35 years is a joke.

                • bliss35 on 18/12/2020 - 14:14

                  @[Deactivated]: Any house will last a century if you take care of it :)

                  • [Deactivated] on 18/12/2020 - 14:19
                    +1

                    @bliss35: Well the OP just implied a 35 year old house is essentially falling apart.

                    • bliss35 on 18/12/2020 - 14:57

                      @[Deactivated]: Yeah fair….might be other variables at play on that one I think

                      • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 21:11

                        @bliss35: Sorry that was a bit exaggerated. The frame is fine and I can definitely say that the build for anything 10 years or older is far better than what we see now.
                        Basically they have lost a several roof tiles, the shower is leaking into the wall and the floor timbers have warped from the walls (built on stumps). Insulation is terrible and there are some major plumbing issues. Also, I think there has been a bit of shifting over the years because it's on a slope and cracks have developed in the ceiling.
                        Not sure if it was because of a mass builder but I think that's what they could afford then. It was a nice enough house growing up.

  • hasselbladsnapper on 17/12/2020 - 23:06
    +1

    Have a FIXED price contract, and do not make any changes! …..we did this for a complex type of build. It was exactly on budget, but as a word of caution, do not expect it to be built on time —- ours was circa 12 months, but was closer to 18months. Not the fault of the builder but was due to OUR window supplier. The builder did not hit us for that situation - phew!.

    He was also the lowest quote - a long term family owned boutique builder of circa 25/30 years of operation. Good luck.

    • netjock on 17/12/2020 - 23:24
      +2

      Fixed price has a buffer built in. But at least you know what the damage is.

    • khelddar on 17/12/2020 - 23:32

      This, Fixed price is a must unless you have cash reserves to cover cost overruns and i mean like 20% on top of the contract price.

      Most banks will either not lend or lend a lower LVR if it is not a fixed price contract.

      Also stick away from owner builder if your relying on a home loan from a bank.

    • orangetrain on 18/12/2020 - 07:50

      Fixed price contract means they'll end up walking if you won't pay on top later?

      • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 10:01
        +2

        Or they just send the company into administration and set up shop elsewhere.

        • orangetrain on 18/12/2020 - 11:49

          How does one check if a builder has been around a long time?

          • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 13:16

            @orangetrain: Pty Ltd companies you can check in ASIC website and also ABN when it was registered in ABR

            • orangetrain on 18/12/2020 - 14:53

              @netjock: I heard people can easily buy old pty ltd. How does it prove the builder has been around for long?

              • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 15:11

                @orangetrain: Mate. You are just going overboard.

                For starters IF the owners of existing Pty Ltd company sells their company for $1k so Mr New Owner can go and do the dodgy then maybe owner of existing Pty Ltd deserves to go out of business and more than once. Unless you are perpetuating a massively big scam you wouldn't buy a shell company for any more than $1k. Don't forget there is about $380 a year for annual ASIC fees plus other compliance fees (annual returns) to keep a company open. It is easier to actually tell ASIC and ATO company is closed then having do sale documents through lawyers.

                What you might be thinking is The multi-million-dollar 'dummy director' scam using vulnerable Australians to rip off the tax office

                Generally what trips up any business and sends them to the wall is tax liabilities. Like the directors forget they need to pay 10% GST to ATO plus company tax when they went and bought that shiny new Landcruiser / HiLux / Ranger.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:48

      Thanks for that. Yeah, we were told that the changes are what blows out the cost.

      18 months is not bad. My cousin's took 2.5 years and still had problems afterwards.

    • Lexus101 on 18/12/2020 - 16:15

      Hi Hasselbladsnapper.

      Which builder did you use? Would appreciate your recommendation.

      Cheers and Thanks.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 21:11

      Don't suppose he is still working and in Victoria is he?

    • DoctorArd on 23/05/2021 - 14:46

      Are you happy to share the name of the business?

  • netjock on 17/12/2020 - 23:28

    May want to think about being an owner builder if you got the time to manage the process.

    You will still get all the trades people to do the work. But at least you know who is fooling around. With a builder you don't know whether the builder is fooling around the subcontractors are fooling the builder around.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:50

      Is there an option to just get a really basic build (frame, walls etc) and then do the rest of it with your own tradespeople?

      • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 15:14
        +1

        Check this out. Australian government free home designs for energy efficient homes

        Basically tells you everything you need to build one of these standard high energy efficiency designs. You might need to engage a professional to adapt the plans dependent on the soil (due to foundations), points of connections for drainage, electricity etc.

        Keep me updated if you do down this path as I think these designs are actually pretty good.

        • osaya on 20/12/2020 - 07:19

          I've actually checked out the website and think it's an awesome resource. However, what can we expect with bringing plans like this to a builder or an architect? Would a generic plan like this be easily worked with, or would they probably try to push their own plans instead?

          • netjock on 20/12/2020 - 11:03
            +1

            @osaya: It depends on if it fits into the block and whether the aspect is in the right direction.

            You will definitely need an architect / drafts person plus soil test to see foundation requirements.

            Also note double story they will need to modify to decrease over looking of neighbours etc.

            I don't think people would be unhappy about getting a short cut.

  • DannyC on 17/12/2020 - 23:35

    Just be aware of a lot of the hidden costs involved in a Knockdown rebuild project (KDRB for short) that a lot of people are not aware of. Things like council costs, knockdown demolition, powerpits, the overall site costs (the soil, slab, if they need a crane, traffic management etc) all contribute to the finished product. I would also consider an Independent building inspector during the whole process for peace of mind. You will hear a lot of builders saying Fixed Costs etc… you won't know the true costs until after your property is knocked down and they can do their final assessments to your lands soil…. they can only give you a rough estimate…. if you hit rock…. the cost can be pretty high and that is after you sign a PWC and pay a deposit for them to do an initial soil test and some surveying.

    Overall, the cost varies. If they stick to a standard inclusions you can get it within a reasonable budget but it may not be what they are looking for. The costs really start to add up with the Upgrades… and o boy there are a LOT and it can add up very quickly. And just be aware it is a stressful process if you do not do your due diligence and research.

    Also consider extra costs that the volume builders generally don't include like the concreting for the driveway (unless on promotion…), landscaping, fencing etc

    At the end of the day though, the process can be stressful but at the same time you are building it to what you want and it can be pretty satisfying & exciting process (hopefully without the dodgy workmanship….). Though yes there are definitely those horror stories….

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:51

      Definitely need to consider that for their current house. Thanks.

  • OzCheapo on 18/12/2020 - 02:23
    -1

    Silly question but why not Metricon or similar?

    • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 10:02

      Cheap headline price. Any changes will cost arm and a leg.

      • OzCheapo on 18/12/2020 - 13:55

        Fair enough

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:53

      Looking at Metricon actually but yeah the changes from the basic layout ain't cheap.

      • OzCheapo on 18/12/2020 - 13:55
        +1

        It is a big purchase so you do have to think carefully. That said, their catalogue of designs is massive!

  • try2bhelpful on 18/12/2020 - 08:24

    You might want to look at something like the Master Builders. We”be got some good builders through them. You will need to include some extra funds for variations.

    https://www.mbav.com.au/find-master-builder

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:54

      Thanks for that. I will look this up.

  • slow on 18/12/2020 - 09:05

    I built a house and was very happy with the result. I agree there are lots of horror stories, but you can try and avoid them.

    1. Do your homework. www.homeone.com.au is a good place to start. Read everything on the forums about other people's good and bad experiences

    2. Do not trust the builder, especially anything that the sales person says. Get everything in writing. Don't just expect that they will do the right thing. Volume builder builder and their subcontractors run on tights margins and will try and take shortcuts wherever they can, and rely on people's ignorance. The price on their website is generally for a very basic fitout

    3. Go through your contract with a fine tooth comb, Make sure it covers everything. Understand everything that you are signing. This relates to 1. above

    4. Get independent help, like hire your own independent building inspector and someone to check your contract

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:54

      Much appreciated. Thanks for the detailed advice.

  • Youfah Mizzum on 18/12/2020 - 09:27

    This is fairly general and no doubt lots of exceptions but I'd always avoid volume builders like Metricon (have heard horror stories) et al.
    Wander around those new home displays and find a floor plan that's pretty close to what's wanted then tweak it here and there so it's not identical as the floorplan would be copyrighted.

    Go for a small local bloke who needs to rely on his good work to maintain his business. Chuck the floorplan under his nose with a photo of the final house (maybe from that same display centre) and ask him for a quote.
    Do that with 4 or 5 local small builders and ask to see their past work & chat to the previous customers.

    Always, always, always get an independent building inspection before each progress payment. Always.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:55

      That's great advice. Thanks for that.

  • ozbargainerlife1 on 18/12/2020 - 11:54

    I am building one now… met about 30 builders.. narrowed down to 5 and then found family and friends who went to 1 of the 5 I shortlisted. Pick a builder who answers your call after the house is built, if there are issues that person should be approachable to fix them and yes get a fixed price contract but compare inclusion lists of various builders to get an idea.

    Dont go big builder you dont have much of a room and they take their time to build.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:56

      Thanks for that. How long did it take you to narrow down the list? And did your final builder get the job done in time?

      • ozbargainerlife1 on 18/12/2020 - 15:11

        It took me 4 weeks to narrow down the builder. I am going to build in the new year!

        • gramoras on 04/01/2021 - 20:42

          So which builder did you go with finally?

    • pharkurnell on 18/12/2020 - 14:06

      Pick a builder who answers your call after the house is built,

      how do you do that? ESP?

      • ozbargainerlife1 on 18/12/2020 - 15:12

        talk to real people who have built, ask your friends and family

  • bliss35 on 18/12/2020 - 13:56

    I built with Metricon and the house is fantastic, after sales support has been good too. Any problems fixed within 1-2 months….have only heard the opposite for smaller builders (local small builders).

    YOUR EXPERIENCE MAY VARY. Really comes down to where you live and the quality of the volume builders in that area. Same goes with local builders, it's hit and miss. Just do extensive research for who is good in your area, not a specific builder.

    • gramoras on 18/12/2020 - 13:57
      +1

      Thanks bliss. It's weird how the experience can be so variable even for the same company.

      • bliss35 on 18/12/2020 - 14:05

        In our area (regional Vic) Metricon are well respected and have good Site Supervisors. We also hired a Private inspector and everything went smooth sailing, any issues were fixed pronto. Anything I pointed out to the Site Supervisor was rectified next day.

        • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 15:17

          In regional areas I would have to agree. At least they have standardised processes.

          Trades people in regional areas are at least 20% - 30% more expensive than metro, cherry pick jobs and then stuff it up (all the ones who can get their stuff together left the town and went to uni in the city and got a desk job most likely).

          Parents live in the country and I try to get things done for them, an easy job trades people in the city would get sorted in like 4 weeks takes 8 - 12 weeks and always something wrong.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/12/2020 - 14:07
      -1

      Metricon? Dude. They build all those identical houses in all the outer suburbs. They are junk.

  • Drakesy on 18/12/2020 - 13:58

    Maybe get them to watch an episode of Grand Designs and gauge their interest after it.

    • netjock on 18/12/2020 - 15:20

      That is like The Apprentice for building homes. Not reality, just cherry picked for entertainment.

      I'd suggest on Netflix "Tiny House Nation" or "How to live mortgage free with Sarah Beeny" some of the problems people have is expectations aren't in line with reality in those shows.

      • Drakesy on 18/12/2020 - 15:26

        I have to disagree there, obviously depending on how extravagant they want to go.

        I feel it correctly conveys the reality of building a home, putting your relationship and finances on the line. Albeit in many cases quite extreme building situation

        If they keep it conservative they'll be fine. If not, may the odds forever be in their favour.

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