Asking a Casual Employee to Work after Telling Them They Are Terminated

Lgroundhog26 on 24/11/2020 - 17:39

My wife was sadly told at around 4.30pm yesterday, while she was at work, that her casual employment was terminated from 2 December, as a new Full Time employee was starting then and "they have no choice but to let her go". Naturally she is very upset, but understands the decision and has been processing the news today and coming to terms with it as a reality.

However, at 4.30pm today, her supervisor sends her an SMS asking her if she can work a 4-hour shift tomorrow.

Wondering if you think this is fair? Would you continue to agree to work casual shifts for someone, after they have informed you that you're no longer required?

Poll Options expired

  • 109
    Fine, gimme the money!
  • 4
    Yeah, but naah.
  • 11
    WTF, why are you calling me...?
Education & Work

Comments

  • Iam12 on 24/11/2020 - 17:42
    +37

    Casual means you can be let go at any time without explanation. If she wants the $$$ then go. There should be no hard feelings and in fact, 8 days is a solid notice period for this sort of employment. Usually it's "we don't need you from tomorrow onwards"

  • avoidfullprice on 24/11/2020 - 17:43

    If you are in her supervisors shoe, would you have done anything different?

    Sorry for her lost.

    • 82norm on 25/11/2020 - 13:20
      +3

      Loss.

  • John Kimble on 24/11/2020 - 17:44
    +5

    Depends how much you want/need the money.

  • holdenmg on 24/11/2020 - 17:50

    Uh, I'm guessing the new FTE has decided to not take the job.

    Popcorn time…

  • [Deactivated] on 24/11/2020 - 17:52
    +25

    It's not 2nd December yet. She is a casual employee.

    Put the two together.

    • thrillhouse on 25/11/2020 - 08:14
      +6

      This. Obviously she's still required as the new employee hasn't even begun yet.
      How is this even a question?

      • SlickMick on 25/11/2020 - 08:35
        +2

        I'm only here to understand what I'm missing. It seems so obvious.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/11/2020 - 08:45
          +2

          Feelings.

      • SlavOz on 06/12/2020 - 20:14

        100%. Not sure where the dilemma is.

        I can understand if she was a full time/permanent and the employer fired her and then told her to keep working for the next 4 weeks. Even though this is customary, it's slowly being phased out. Employers don't want disgruntled staff roaming the office so it's best to pay them out and let them spend the next 2-4 weeks looking for a new job.

    • Leo Getz on 25/11/2020 - 22:04

      It's She not is 2nd a December casual yet employee.
      She It's is not a 2nd casual December employee yet.
      Que?

  • orangetrain on 24/11/2020 - 17:53
    +1

    Up to your wife.

    • John Kimble on 24/11/2020 - 18:06
      +8

      Yeah, but naah.

    • SlickMick on 25/11/2020 - 08:40

      My last job had no termination details in the contract, but they would leave it up until the week the contract expired and renew it for another month. I gave 3 days notice, because that's when my new job was going to start.
      My job before that had termination rules spelled out: either party could give 30 minutes notice. We were told "Don't come back Monday".

      Being told in advance is really courteous, but because of reactions like "should I work up until the agreed date", employers tend to not give notice.

  • BertieBrown on 24/11/2020 - 17:56
    +9

    I’d at the very least want a good reference, which if I’m going to lose my job regardless is probably worth something applying for future work, so yeah I’d take the shifts, as it’s also extra dough, and makes me look more professional to future employees who might be ringing previous employers for references.

    It’s a kick in the giblets but money is money, ultimately.

    • Darkmime on 25/11/2020 - 13:12
      +4

      I agree with this. Don't burn bridges until you've landed another job. Or better yet, just don't burn bridges.

      Adulting is tough.

  • brendanm on 24/11/2020 - 17:57
    +1

    Depends if she wants the money I suppose. Did she not want full time?

  • trustnoone on 24/11/2020 - 17:57
    +1

    It doesn't sound like its a burnt bridge sort of issue. So if she wants the money, I'd say go for it. If she doesn't want it, I'd tell them no. Just make sure she does it because she wants to and not because she feels bad they'll be left without or something.

  • tsunamisurfer on 24/11/2020 - 17:59
    +8

    OP your wife is a casual.

    In exchange for the inconsistent nature of work hours, she gets compensated by getting casual rates.

    As for if you want to work, comes down to simply do you want the money?

    Don't look at it as some type of betrayal or rejection, its just business, in fact the company has been open with you to let you find employment elsewhere rather than keep you on the books with Zero hours / shifts.

  • Donaldhump on 24/11/2020 - 18:09

    Do u want the money or not?

  • dasher86 on 24/11/2020 - 18:17
    +1

    She's no longer required from Dec 2, what's the problem?

  • shaybisc on 24/11/2020 - 18:17

    Was the full time position advertised?

    • Switchblade88 on 24/11/2020 - 19:13

      That's an excellent question that'll lead into whether the OP's wife was actually unfairly dismissed.

      Depending on the circumstances, it may not actually be legal for the employer to dismiss an existing employee (irrespective of their employment conditions/contract) in favour of a brand new employee.

      • jv on 25/11/2020 - 12:05

        into whether the OP's wife was actually unfairly dismissed.

        She's a casual…

        • Switchblade88 on 25/11/2020 - 12:16

          And that does NOT exclude her from being unfairly dismissed; especially in the situation above. Still need more info to make a judgement though.

          If I stop hiring one of our casuals because they've told me they're gay/pregnant/Christian/Muslim, that constitutes unfair dismissal. Even though they're casual.

          • jv on 25/11/2020 - 13:10

            @Switchblade88:

            And that does NOT exclude her from being unfairly dismissed

            They are casual and they have no more work for them.

            Pretty much every casual contract I have seen says they is no guarantee of work and it can be terminated any time by either party.

            • Switchblade88 on 25/11/2020 - 16:49

              @jv: Normally, yes, that would be prefectly valid:

              "We have no more shifts right now" or "We don't have any shifts for the foreseeable future, you should look for other work."

              In the OP's case, as he said above

              a new Full Time employee was starting

              This implies a dismissal of an existing staff member getting replaced by a fulltime position which has more rights and protections than her casual position. Basically, the employer overplayed their hand by saying why they were dismissed, which might create gounds for a claim.

              If the job position is being replaced (i.e. casual to fulltime position), not the staff member, then she certainly should have been given proper opportunity to apply with other candidates etc - just one of many reasons this doesn't sound fair and reasonable.

              • jv on 25/11/2020 - 16:50

                @Switchblade88:

                This implies a dismissal of an existing staff member

                They are casual. They aren't being dismissed, they just aren't being given any more shifts…
                That is why they get a casual loading.

                saying why they were dismissed

                There is no mention of the word 'dismissed'

                • Switchblade88 on 25/11/2020 - 16:57

                  @jv:

                  casual employment was terminated from 2 December

                  Terminated.

                  "they have no choice but to let her go"

                  As in, the employer is not only offering more shifts, but can sign a Separation Certificate for Centrelink to confirm to the employees & the gov't that they are not continuing in a business/employement relationship.

                  If they were POTENTIALLY able to get more shifts, then the employer wouldn't have to sign a Separation Certificate on the premise of ongoing employment; but in the OP's description this is clearly not the case.

                  • jv on 25/11/2020 - 17:24

                    @Switchblade88:

                    As in, the employer is not only offering more shifts

                    That's nearly always in the contract that they both sign…
                    That is why they usually get paid more than a non-casual…

  • thatonethere on 24/11/2020 - 18:31
    +3

    If she is the right mind do the shift get the money and get a good reference for future work.

    If not decline and move on

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 24/11/2020 - 19:07
    +3

    as a new Full Time employee was starting

    Has your wife worked there for more than 12 months, on a regular basis with regular hours and paid under an Award?
    Will the new Full Time employee have the exact same job description?

    If so, you may want to obtain legal advice. Quickly.

    • Vote for Pedro on 05/12/2020 - 19:20

      What zeggie said but I’d recommend talking to your union

  • pegaxs on 24/11/2020 - 19:39

    When I quit working at the casino, I was getting SMS messages to ask if I wanted to pick up shifts up to 6 weeks after I had quit…

    And in this situation, I would just politely decline any more shifts and finish out any that she already accepted.

  • Belv on 24/11/2020 - 19:57
    +2

    Not to be rude but if your wife was a decent worker why did she not apply for the job or why did the boss not see her fit to fill the role ?

  • groundhog26 on 24/11/2020 - 20:01
    +3

    Awesome comments, many thanks everyone! Long-time OzBargainer, but first-time posting.

    She's politely declining any further shifts at this point. :)

  • AndyC1 on 24/11/2020 - 20:06

    If she was not asked to apply or if she was interested in the full time position then reply that "Due to personal and family commitments I will not be able to do the shift requested".

    If they did not think about asking then they can go away.

    • thatonethere on 24/11/2020 - 20:37
      +1

      "Sorry I am just commencing in my new role as XXX. Good luck with your business in the future."

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 24/11/2020 - 22:40

    she was a casual so it is fair enough depending on the job i would probably rock up and do a mass half ass job of things

  • Brendoo on 25/11/2020 - 10:33
    +1

    She should work (assuming she is free and can at that time). She still is employed there. It's also the professional thing to do. Don't burn your bridges or piss off your employer just before you leave, it can have a negative effect with references, referrals and potential work at the same employer later.

  • HeWhoKnows on 25/11/2020 - 12:00
    +2

    Technically as a casusal an employer owes you no shifts.
    So its just a courtesy to let your wife know rather than just NOT rostering her on any more.

    Id keep in the good books by taking any shifts they offer as they have done the right thing and you never know.
    Things might not work out with the new person or more work could come up

    Anyway until she finds other work at which time should would politely advise them she is no longer available

    Bottom line is not what anyone says here or what you say.
    Its entirely up to the wife mate.
    Dont get in the way.
    Women have a firm mind about things like this.

  • OzHunterNSW on 25/11/2020 - 12:03
    -1

    Tell them to Pizza OFFa.
    Your wife owns them nothing. They showed she is not valued.
    Tell them to go duck themselves in the lake

  • MontyMacaw on 25/11/2020 - 12:03
    +2

    I would say that she should leave the door open for more casual work. In this economy there is every likelihood that there will be future work. I wouldn’t take it personally on the information you have supplied.

    • Switchblade88 on 25/11/2020 - 16:50
      +1

      In this economy there is every likelihood that there will be future work.

      Are you talking about a different economy to everyone else, or a different decade??

      • MontyMacaw on 25/11/2020 - 18:15

        I am talking about the return to the recovering economy now that things are opening up. I would guess the reason the employer took on a full time employee was because business had improved and more hours were available so they decided to get somebody full time instead of casual. What did you think I meant? 5 months ago?

  • Ghost47 on 26/11/2020 - 20:55

    It'd suck getting laid off but if I'm not terminated yet I would hope I wouldn't be so stubborn and take the shifts offered because of the fact that soon there will be no more money coming into my pocket.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2020 - 14:13

    Ask for a permanent contract or just refuse LOL

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