2 Right Lanes Turning, Crash Intersection Who Is at Fault?

Lmushi on 30/10/2020 - 11:46
Last edited 30/10/2020 - 12:27 by 1 other user

Hi OzBargain,

My wife got into an accident while at an intersection when turning right (2 lanes turn right). Both claim each other claim the can into each others lane. My wife car bumper got swiped and came off, other car was a plumbing car and got swiped at the back half of the car.. My wife goes he came close to her and then swiped when turning right.

Observing the intersection, most cars from right lane go into the left lane, as right after turn they need to merge right. Who is at fault here?

Wife car A, plumbing car B. Diagram.

Automotive

Comments

  • Fergy1987 on 30/10/2020 - 11:53
    +30

    This is going to be 50-50 - Either he cut the corner and hit the front of her car. Or she didnt turn sharp enough, entered his lane and hit him

    No one is going to win this unless someone has dashcam footage

    • [Deactivated] on 30/10/2020 - 14:01

      Nevermind, saw the edit/change. Agree with this 100%.

  • dandosr on 30/10/2020 - 11:53
    +5

    "Both claim each other claim the can into each others lane." Huh.

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 11:59
      +2

      my wife goes he came into her lane, while he goes she into his lane.

      • spackbace on 30/10/2020 - 12:18
        +16

        No, you can't just cut lanes if it's 2 turn lanes going into a 2 lane road… you stick to your lane

        • onetwothreefour on 30/10/2020 - 13:44
          +4

          I think he means they both say the other one came into the wrong lane. So the wife thinks the plumber cut her up and the plumber thinks the wife cut him up.

          • Antikythera on 01/11/2020 - 12:09
            +1

            @onetwothreefour: front left bumper to right rear?

            the one with the damage on the front.

            • modiika on 02/11/2020 - 10:10

              @Antikythera: I think if she stayed in her lane and he cut into her lane abuptly it would be his fault and the damage would be the same. So I dont think you can just say, its on the front and his rear therefore its her fault.

  • nfr on 30/10/2020 - 11:56
    +2

    I don't understand the story but is that MS Paint?

  • ECE on 30/10/2020 - 11:58
    +2

    A front and back or 360 dash cam would help 👻

  • ATangk on 30/10/2020 - 11:59
    +2

    Observing the intersection, most cars from right lane go into the left lane, as right after turn they need to merge right.

    This is a poorly designed intersection

    • Bren20 on 01/11/2020 - 08:12
      +3

      I'd want to know more details about the intersection before blaming the design…

  • PissLUR on 30/10/2020 - 12:01
    +7

    isnt it obvious that your wife's car hit the plumber's car?

    • MS Paint on 30/10/2020 - 13:39
      -6

      Wife busy eyeing off hot tradie?

  • whooah1979 on 30/10/2020 - 12:07
    +1

    The vehicle that hit the rear of the other vehicle is at fault.

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:13

      side swipe, not at the back

      • whooah1979 on 30/10/2020 - 12:18
        +6

        swiped at the back half of the car

        This sounds like the rear.

        • plmko on 30/10/2020 - 12:50
          +2

          It's not, treated very differently

          • whooah1979 on 30/10/2020 - 13:38

            @plmko: The proof is in the pudding. Let's see who pays for what.

            • gesco on 31/10/2020 - 18:23
              +3

              @whooah1979: The proof of (how good) the pudding is in the eating…

              • gimme on 01/11/2020 - 08:02
                +1

                @gesco: Most ppl don't know this. Probably 90%

  • iampoor on 30/10/2020 - 12:07
    +1

    Where did the impact take place?

    B should go to the outer lane and A should go to the inner lane.

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:12

      happened during the turn

      • iampoor on 30/10/2020 - 12:21

        Yes, but where is the point of impact? In the outer lane or inner lane?

        Outer lane car A at Fault, Inner lane car B at fault.

        • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:27

          this is the one she said/he said. Hard to prove as they both pulled over afterwards

          • wkd on 31/10/2020 - 19:04
            -1

            @mushi: any glass or debris on the ground? go have a look which lane it is in

  • Stewardo on 30/10/2020 - 12:08
    +21

    It’s a racing incident, no further action.

    • Euphemistic on 30/10/2020 - 12:20
      +8

      Stop go penalty in pit lane.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/10/2020 - 12:16
    +3

    Car B turns into lane 1, car A turns into lane 2. Both need to follow the dotted lines on the road to swing and line up to their correct lane.

  • Hithere on 30/10/2020 - 12:19

    Are there White lines through the curve?

    Let your insurance company worry about it. You have got insurance?

    IMO it's 50/50 fault.

    Car B probably cut the curve a little while car A probably went a little wide through the curve.

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:23

      3rd party only :(

      • Hithere on 30/10/2020 - 12:26

        Some insurers cover a small amount of damage caused to your vehicle if you are in an accident with an uninsured driver.

        It may pay to check and hope that the other driver was uninsured.

        • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:27
          +1

          other driver has insurance, commercial car

  • Simoneee on 30/10/2020 - 12:19
    +3

    50-50 unless dashcam evidence available

    • Euphemistic on 30/10/2020 - 12:21
      +2

      CCTV from nearby premises?

      • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:27
        +1

        dont think any, but still worth a check

  • [Deactivated] on 30/10/2020 - 12:29
    +1

    Inconclusive.

    We have no concept of space. Based on the limited info, the car that was behind and crashed "into" the other car is possibly at fault but we can't judge

  • Seraphin7 on 30/10/2020 - 12:35
    +3

    Neither vehicle is "inherently" at fault. It will all come down to who moved into the other lane to cause the accident.

    Observing the intersection, most cars from right lane go into the left lane, as right after turn they need to merge right. Who is at fault here?

    This is not directly relevant and couldn't be relied upon as any form of argument for either party. That said, the implication of the statement is that your wife has moved left prematurely.

    The only thing you can do here is assert your position. In the absence of evidence it is quite likely that the respective insurance companies will effectively deem it a 50/50, each party responsible for their own outcomes/repairs with each party to pay an excess. Please tell us you have insurance.

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 12:44

      I have 3rd party.

      • Seraphin7 on 30/10/2020 - 15:09
        +1

        The probability is that the other party will be responsible for their damage and you will be responsible for yours.

        Best case is you launch a claim against the other driver and they agree to pay for your damage.

        Worst case is you get stiffed with paying for their damage via your third party.

        • highdealer on 31/10/2020 - 23:14

          Best case is you launch a claim against the other driver and they agree to pay for your damage.

          Yeah, that is not gonna happen.

      • capslock janitor on 01/11/2020 - 11:40

        What about her?

  • Nugs on 30/10/2020 - 12:41
    +4

    "Observing the intersection, most cars from right lane go into the left lane"
    If car A does not stay in right lane, car A is at fault.
    .

  • Mike88 on 30/10/2020 - 12:53
    +9

    Impossible to say who was at fault in terms of cutting into other persons lane.
    However if the damage is to the front of your wife’s car and rear of other car, common sense should tell you regardless if you have right of way that you should avoid hitting the vehicle in front of you.
    Defensive driving goes along way to preventing accidents.

    • Hellfire on 30/10/2020 - 13:04

      Agree. Hard to assign definitive blame because both parties disagree on what happened but the car to the rear had a duty to avoid the car in front. 50/50 is fair but don't be surprised if it's 60:40 or similar.

      • modiika on 02/11/2020 - 10:15

        I dont understand this logic, if you are in your lane, and someone swerves in front of you from the lane next to you, there wouldnt be time to really react. You dont keep a car length or longer spacing between you and the car in the lanes next to you.

        I dont think its possible to tell, and will probably go 50:50 as a result.

    • highdealer on 31/10/2020 - 23:15

      Defensive driving goes a long way to preventing accidents.

      Especially when you are driving without a dashcam nor comprehensive insurance.

  • Scorpex on 30/10/2020 - 13:13
    +3

    I avoid certain intersections like this because drivers just will not stay in their lane. For anyone else in Adelaide, I will cite Gouger St turning into West Terrace as an example. Drivers in the inside turning lane want to barge across into the centre lane of the new road as they turn. At other intersections, where there is a wide swing marked through the turn, drivers in the outside lane undercut the corner and want to drive through the inner lane. The lane markings through the turn just seem to be wasted paint.

  • dogboy on 30/10/2020 - 13:16
    +8

    Can you please tell us the location so we can see the road in google maps to make a determination of fault?

    • tight-ass on 01/11/2020 - 17:14

      OP's wife is obviously at fault, hence the lack of a google map link to the location concerned.

      The OP has been back online since his initial post and several people in the thread asking for the exact location and still he hasn't provided it……sounds like he knows his wife trucked up and doesn't want to get flamed further!

      • mushi on 02/11/2020 - 11:09

        @tight-ass lol based on location you''ll work that out? here is the link https://www.google.com/maps/place/Greenacre+NSW+2190/@-33.90…

        • capslock janitor on 02/11/2020 - 13:06

          on punchbowl rd, turning right into juno pde?

        • tight-ass on 02/11/2020 - 15:11
          +2

          Nope sorry - can't determine fault now you've provided the map link. Intersection layout (line marking & geometry) aren't a factor.

          One person crossed the dashed line when turning here. Given both drivers claim the other person was at fault and crossed the line and without witnesses or dash cam footage I'd imagine the blame will be attributed 50/50.

          Time to get a front / rear dash cam for your car/s - small price to pay for peace of mind and to avoid a repeat in the future. Go BlackVue

    • capslock janitor on 03/11/2020 - 10:56

      we have similar, but 2 right turns which become 3 lanes.
      https://goo.gl/maps/x3XAWULS6bCcTQVp8
      should the outside lane go into middle lane?

      problem with this one, the inside lane is a tightish turn, with that crappy traffic island.
      and also outside laners tends to go into middle lane, because up ahead is usually parked cars..

      i'm cautious enough to go into left lane from the outside, as sometimes the inner lane will go wide because of the island

  • Ughhh on 30/10/2020 - 13:49

    There's usually dotted lines in the intersection so each car knows where to go…. Inner cars usually stay in the inner lane.
    Provide address of exact location.

    • MS Paint on 30/10/2020 - 15:07

      No always though and it's always dangerous when they aren't marked that way.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/10/2020 - 14:03
    +1

    Cars in their lane must give way to lanes next to them. Technically speaking, whoever left their lane and hit the other person will be at fault which would need to be backed with evidence, i.e. dash cam.

    Unless there is undeniable proof, insurance companies will determine it as 50/50.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/10/2020 - 18:52
      +1

      Interesting I got downvoted, yet it is 100% correct. Whoever did that, hope you feel good about yourself.

  • Fredfloresjr on 30/10/2020 - 14:25
    +2

    Wife: I don't have dashcam your honor.
    Judge: Then split the expenses 50:50

  • Davo1111 on 30/10/2020 - 15:10

    does your wife have any evidence that she is right OR wrong?

  • abb on 30/10/2020 - 15:14
    +11

    In my experience, people tend to turn too tightly a lot more often than they run wide.
    That is, I'm inclined to believe your wife's story that the plumber made the mistake. However, you can't prove it, so it's probably a "each bears own cost" scenario.

    • jzdhgkd on 01/11/2020 - 13:37

      +1 same here. I've been driving for 15 years now and 99pc of the time it's people cutting across a corner into oncoming traffic or cutting corners in multi lane turns like OPs scenario.

  • Ghost47 on 30/10/2020 - 16:24
    +1

    Where did this happen?

    • mushi on 30/10/2020 - 16:47
      +2

      sydney

      • Ghost47 on 30/10/2020 - 17:49

        Thought so. Like others I think it'd be hard pressed to determine who is at fault if there isn't any witnesses or footage…

      • tight-ass on 30/10/2020 - 20:49
        +3

        Sydney's a big place….what intersection / road name?

        Better yet provide a Google Maps link. Until we know the exact location and the road markings that exist we don't have the full picture.

  • SF3 on 30/10/2020 - 16:52
    +1

    Sounds legit, it's your wife, not your friend/mate/relo.

    Can you give us a link (pin drop) on google map so show us the actual location of the right turn?

  • Lurk Hartog on 31/10/2020 - 08:15
    +3

    I'm disturbed by the proportion of Sydney drivers who seem to think the dotted lane markers on turns are there to go directly under the centre of your car as you cut the corner. How much time are people really saving by doing this?

    Anything could have happened in OPs scenario, but I wouldn't be surprised if the outside driver was cutting the corner, as so many Sydney drivers do this.

    • SF3 on 31/10/2020 - 10:29

      Confirmation bias.

      Also NSW has the highest number of vehicle ownership vs other states of AU.

    • xylarr on 31/10/2020 - 17:02

      I've seen cars cut the corner so much that their left wheel crosses the line.

      • Ozpit on 31/10/2020 - 18:47
        +1

        I’ve seen cars cut the corner so much that their right wheels jump onto the median strip knocking over whatever is in the car’s way: stop signs, give way signs, keep left signs, traffic lights, light poles, whatever, and then just carry on up the road as if the driver is thinking, “Huh? What the? How’d that happen? I don’t think those signs were there last time I came this way. I’m sure they weren’t. That’s dangerous. They need to move those signs somewhere else.”

  • Ozpit on 31/10/2020 - 08:38

    When turning in multiple turn lanes, vehicles must stay in their respective lanes (whether the lanes are marked within the intersection or not) until completing the turn, only then can they change lanes if it is safe to do so.
    In other words, inside vehicle moves directly into right lane of road entered; outside vehicle moves into next lane to the left.
    Going by the diagram, it appears car A strayed into car B’s lane while turning. In which case, OP’s missus is at fault.

  • Ughhh on 31/10/2020 - 08:56
    +1

    most cars from right lane go into the left lane, as right after turn they need to merge right. Who is at fault here?

    Unless op is wrong to share location for clarification , looks like op is at fault.

  • kiitos on 31/10/2020 - 13:17

    most cars from right lane go into the left lane, as right after turn they need to merge right

    What did this mean?

  • OzHunterNSW on 31/10/2020 - 15:45

    Sounds as if the plumber's vehicle has crossed into the path of your wife's vehicle. Each vehicle is to stick to their designated lane. If one need to verge for whatever reason, it is their responsibility to ensure the land is clear. The plumber is in the wrong. Did they even have an indicator on?

  • Freighter on 31/10/2020 - 17:48

    This is the perfect thread to ask my question then: if that was to happen at this intersection (https://maps.app.goo.gl/3iDFjkznW2yNUvTX9) who would be at fault? Turning from Hartland Road into Burwood Highway. Does the right turning lane get to decide between lanes 2 and 3, and the left turning lane have to go into lane 1?

    • whooah1979 on 31/10/2020 - 18:20

      The left turn from Hartland Rd to Burwood Hwy is a slip lane. Left must give way.

      • Ughhh on 31/10/2020 - 18:49

        No, the left turn into 484 is a car park. The middle must give way.

    • ziggy2031 on 31/10/2020 - 18:43
      +1

      The car in the right lane has to go to right lane . The car in the middle lane should go to the middle lane but can probably safely go to the left lane as well with a touch of left blinker

      • Freighter on 31/10/2020 - 19:28

        There's only 2 lanes. Left lane or right lane.

        Left lane can turn left before the intersection onto the slip road, go straight onto Hanover Road (need to turn right and then immediately left, a slight lightning shape ⚡) or right onto Burwood Highway.

    • factor on 31/10/2020 - 18:56

      This is entirely determined by your interpretation of what the turn lines mean here! And they are a bit ambiguous as they run out of steam.

      The relevant road rule is 33(2):
      http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104…
      "If there is a turn line indicating how the turn is required to be made, the driver must make the turn as indicated by the turn line."

      No other rule appears to apply. As such - there is no consistent rule for multi-lane turn intersections - interpret the paint on the road each time.

    • chriise on 31/10/2020 - 19:55

      I assume you're asking about going from Hartland onto Burwood hwy east bound (right turn). I don't know the answer but expect the left lane would stick to the left lane on Burwood if not hooking the immediate left on to Hanover rd. But it's a pretty messy junction…

  • CheeryCheapskate on 31/10/2020 - 18:51

    Oh that sucks… I'm surprised witnesses didn't assist. The wrong is the person who went into the other lane but since both are claiming they're right, the person driving behind should have given way (as a defensive driver). I'd say split it or fix your own car since it's going to be a pain to work out.

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