Requirement:
3rd row comfortability
off-road
proper resell value
I have done some research:
a. Haval h9, Chinese car but the reviews seems good, but doubt its resell value.
b. Prado, however the engine seems weak, 130kw on a 2.3t SUV.
c. Patrol Ti, I can see people can got it around 70k in the beginning of the year, now the RRP is 85k, any reason being that?
Thanks for your advise.
@abuch47: I reckon a stripped out Tesla Model S Plaid with battery swapping technology, could potentially win
@Boogerman: all racing has specifications to adhere to keep it competitive, it is only entertaining if its close on a somewhat level playing field.
@abuch47: FYI, Model S Plaid is about to beat the record set by the TRACK PURPOSE BUILT McLaren Senna at Laguna Seca
@Boogerman: bogans are the boogeymen that sleep under boogermans bed
"oi dinners ready"
"fark off mum ya bogan"
Tesla? Old news. The trend is now off-roading or beach driving on a Maserati.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/masera…
I purchased Everest trend 2L bi turbo.
When we were looking, we had considered paj sport, prado and Everest.
We live in a city and 95% of our driving is on sealed roads. I test drive all three and found Everest most to my liking, it almost drives like a car. I liked prado second best and paj sport the last.
There is no doubt prado is better 4wd straight out of showroom, but I found it lacking in comparison to Everest on sealed roads. Everest is few mm less wide than prado too, making it more manoeuvrable. I found visibility out of pajero (not sport) the best.. But after that Everest.
Paj sport didn't give me a feeling of being solid. Try closing the door and you'd see how light it feels. It also had child car seat tethers on the roof. Very annoying.
Everest does little things better. It has a really good infotainment system (sync), over the air updates, Android auto/Apple car play, it has tether points for child seat on both 2nd and 3rd row (missing on both prado and paj). Service intervals of 1 year (prado had 6m). Ford also has capped service for almost 34 years. Everest trend 2L also has the highest payload in the category. Ford picked up my car for service for free and gave me a replacement car for the day , a friend's prado had to be dropped off at the service center (every 6m mind you)
What do I not like about Everest? Few things which aren't deal breakers.. The auto off ignition cannot be permanently disabled, sync defaults to abc keyboard rather than qwerty, doors don't automatically lock.
I would have definitely liked the 150L tank on prado.
At the time, I got a much better deal on Everest which also helped me in the decision. Ford also offered best price for our old i30. Overall, felt like Ford valued my business more than Toyota did.
Good luck with your decision.
Much appreciated your input.
We have a Ford Kuga trend for seven years, it's okay but the dealership was disappointed in addressing concerns after a few recalls on different parts from Ford.
Having a Ford already could be the major reason we will miss the Everest as we just wanted to try another badge.
Thanks for giving the input!
Everest is a completely different car to the Kuga.
I can see why you're cautious on the next model after owning a Kuga though…I'm surprised you had it for 7 years.
Forget for a moment the brand of vehicle. What you should be considering is specs. Factory fitted assessors, that will demand the higher return when considering time to sell.
Your 1.8, 2.4, or whatever engines, are toys. You state off road capabilities but really, do you think a 1.8 or anything under 150HP will do the job… honestly
Patrol is the goto vehicle for 4 wheel driving. Spare parts can be found all over Australia.
The latest model is petrol. If you are going 4 wheel driving / bush - diesel is recommended.
I got a Holden Colarado. It is very capable for towing /4 wheel driving, has 7 seats that fold flat and is very versatile.
Also a bonus, it's under your budget.
I wouldn't recommend a Prado, they don't have the guts when it counts (towing / 4 wheel driving)
I don’t think a Colorado’s guts are much better. All those utes/Ute based SUVs are ridiculously underpowered
Thanks!
I tried to buy Patrol within my budget, if cannot get the deal within my budget I won't push too much, will consider a Isuzu Mux given that there is promotion going on.
Patrol is the goto vehicle for 4 wheel driving.
Many a Toyota owner would dispute that ;) And once you go out of the metro area, it's Toyota country, let's be honest here
There are just as many Patrol owners offroad and in the bush as there are Toyota owners. I'd say that the Toyota is a better car, but the Patrol is much better value for money.
There are just as many Patrol owners offroad and in the bush as there are Toyota owners.
I beg to differ. Very few serious 4wders, or grey nomads, have bought the Patrol since it went petrol only, and nor will you see many Navaras/Pathfinders out bush/country. It's been 4yrs since a diesel Patrol was on the market, and even in the years before it left the market, the Landcruiser/Fortuner/Prado/Hilux/Landcruiser 70 ownership would've eclipsed it.
Go down a main street in a country town, or the local caravan park, and Toyota reigns supreme. The side bonus to this is plentiful parts in remote areas, and the know-how to work on the cars
@spackbace: Maybe in WA, but up the East coast, while Toyotas are king, there are still a lot of Patrols going around. It takes a lot of diesel savings to make up for the $30-40k price difference. Even factoring in the better Toyota resale, I'd bet you'd have to do at least 300,000km to break even.
@[Deactivated]: I drove patrol 4.8 when in jo'burg and now have prado here. No regrets.
Reasons: No real offroad done here bcos of job, lesser time on weekends and young family.
Robustness: Patrol is a tank. Built like a tank, rides like a tank. If you know what I mean.
Third row:
Well, every other "family guy" in OzLand dreams of having a 7 seater for the same reasons. They start the search going from soft roaders to discuss abt isuzu, hyundais etc and either buys a kluger or a prado. Mostly.
(I am not against others, just my exposure in last 7 years).
Tbh, third row is ok'ish. Kids upto 130cm are ok but any taller- it becomes makeshift extra seat. They dont enjoy sitting there.
I am going to try landy sahara or lexus next - purely bcos of bigger size.
Patrol is the goto vehicle for 4 wheel driving. Spare parts can be found all over Australia.
The latest model is petrol. If you are going 4 wheel driving / bush - diesel is recommended.
I got a Holden Colarado7. ( Latest model is the trailblazer ). It is very capable for towing / 4 wheel driving, has 7 seats that fold flat and is very versatile.
Also a bonus, it's under your budget.
Holdens were going for great prices as showrooms closed down, then COVID came along and they want top dollar for a discontinued car that's likely already a year old.
I should have bit the bullet and grabbed a Colorado. Was offered LTZ's DA for 41k, now they want over 50 lol.
I’m not sure why you think a diesel is better off-road. Fuel economy aside, which is shit off-road regardless, a big torque normally aspirated V8 is probably going to be better off-road. Throttle response and modulation is going to be a lot better and easier, plus you have much more revs so driving in soft sand is also going to be easier in a petrol v8. Plus you have a lot more power to really gun it when shit gets bad.
Planting your foot when things ‘get bad’ is just a quicker to get more stuck. V8 petrol vs Diesel is an age old question that, in this country, has largely been answered by the market. The majority of 4wds are diesel.
Hyundai Palisade. Easily the most comfortable third row and you get tons of tech for the money. I'm waiting to test drive it too.
Not sure how you’ve been in a third row of a car that hasn’t been released yet. Also it can’t go off-road. It’s more of a budget X5 competitor.
It was in the Hyundai/Genesis showroom at macquarie park/ryde (sydney) a couple months ago. Not sure for other states.
Haval is on your list. You sure you’ve done you’re research?
Cheap, cause it’s probably made in a re-education camp by “volunteers”.
I'm su're.
Guess where you'll be going for suggesting such a thing 😂
Guess where you'll be going for suggesting such a thing
Ummm… promotion to head policy advisor for the Federal Gvt?
Don't buy an SUV they're all shit
If I can get a new Patrol for 75k I won't think twice. My choice from your list.
Prado will be my number 2, and Pajero 3.
And what about the Land Rover Discovery?
Disco will be $130k for a decent spec.
Strange that not many recommend Pajero Sport for what it offers - best value for money in the current market.
I was in the market for Prado but more I read about it, the less it comes as a choice.
Few issues with Pajero sport is the shitty child seat anchor points, Poor rear window design and narrow overall which is a plus in the 4WD tracks when it gets thick.
I don't like the design of the vehicle, read the view and it's not impressive, particularly for the 3rd row seats and the legroom.
Just a heads up, if you’re relying on negotiating to meet your budget then you may be disappointed
Dealerships are barely negotiating due to supply and demand.
Recently purchased a Pajero sport with a few accessories. Went to 4 dealerships and none of them negotiated more than 1k off. Even certain salesman were being straight up and said we barely have any to sell, I looked at their stock inventory and the ones they had coming in and it was abysmal. Also most of them were sold or a crap colour. Wait times were also at least 3months
This may be different to Nissan so I can’t know for sure but just a heads up, it also seems like you are quite set on the patrol.
Make a list and take them all out for a test drive
On paper and based on reviews it’s easier to say which is the better one but as soon as you test drive them you’ll notice that one will standout to you more than the others
Thanks for the tips.
Yesterday we did test driving on Patrol and Prado, love the version from Patrol but it's really huge, Prado is okay but not best value for money.
We can get Patrol for mid 70k and leather accented Prado gxl for 71k-72k, personally I prefer Patrol as only a few thousands dollars more expensive than Prado gxl but a different class of vehicle.
You have 6 people you want to do family day trips with. Buy a Carnival. Hire a 4x4 if you find you need one.
You can buy a 4x4, but you would be completely selfish to do so if your goal is day tripping with parents and kids.
You are also thinking wrong about the Haval. It is $35k to $45k cheaper than the cheaper of cars you listed. DEPRECIATION MEANS JACK POOP IF YOU ARE ARE SAVING MORE UPFRONT. You don't want one because of supply chain issues. But if you are never leaving Sydney, that is not an issue. And the parts issue is getting better as contractors are cheaping out and providing Haval's to mine staff as they around half the price of the competition.
I have explored that region fine in low FWD hatches on road tyres. There is SFA to find on proper 4x4 only trails until your are three hours from the CBD. Most of the Blue Mountains, all of the Southern Highlands and all of the South Coast is exploitable in hatches. Even the Central Coast, with it's sand dunes, is accessible to regular cars if you change to a suitable tyre. When I say 4x4 only I mean roads with boulders or mud pits. Most '4x4 Only' signed roads are fine for normal cars with some common sense.
Then their is your reputation. Most people will think you are a moron for buying a brand new $75k+ car to take off road. Without justification like, 'I need it for work' or 'what's $75k when I make XXX' most non 4x4ing acquaintances will think you are a complete FW.
Where are you trying to go so badly that is worth making your parents and children hate you?
You would be an absolute moron to drive a 2wd car on sand dunes as you are implying. I saw people like you on Fraser Island who though it was ok to drive a soft roader Nissan X trail (without even airing down the tyres) across the island’s inner trails. They got 1km from Kingfisher bay resort (out of 22km) before they got stuck. It was 5pm and getting dark. Normally I’d stop and help someone who got stuck, but people who do zero research, are completely unprepared and are obviously never going to make it across the island in vehicles incapable of it, can spend the $1500 on the tow truck instead. And X trails are AWD. You’re talking about 2wd hatches with different tyres. Lol. MT and AT tyres aren’t really any better on soft sand than HT tyres anyway. You need a proper 4*4.
Nice rant but last time I checked Fraser is in Qld and Stockton had ~100m of soft sand to traverse followed by shore driving. You can easily do that with anything moderately light with mud tyres, and properly light with ATs. You realise dune buggies have been a thing for 50 years?
I also said don't do that.
Last time you checked jack shit. To traverse the island it’s 22km of inland trails. And you almost never see softroaders there. When you do they are stuck. Every now and again you’ll see a Subaru on the beach, but they don’t even attempt to go east to west or vice versa and they get stuck going to the shops or getting on/off the ferry. You know nothing Jon Snow. It’s funny how you’re actually thinking your opinion matters one iota when you’ve never even been there. Keyboard warrior just can’t lose an argument. MT and AT tyres make little difference over HT tyres on soft sand. MT tyres are arguably worse.
@[Deactivated]: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/sydney/fraser+island/
Not a day trip buddy.
I get Geography was boring, but this is your country. Have some self respect.
@[Deactivated]: Ok tourist. You day trip from Sydney when the boards open and I will go for a jog on my empty beach in the morning.
@This Guy: ignore the troll, they have history.. - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/543646#comment-8833332
@david clarke: Na, Burnertoasty is alright. They are just continuing our conversation from last time!
Burnertoasty is right about Frasier.
I just think they missed the thread where OP said their goal is to day trip around Sydney with 6 people in the same vehicle.
Mate thanks for the comment, really informative and honest!
Sorry, straight up, for being so aggressive with my message.
I wanted to get your attention.
Buy what you want.
From what you said you would be best off practically with two vehicles, a cheap second hand 4x4 to break and a people mover for the family.
But this sounds like a financial decision so talk to your accountant/ financial advisor.
Palisade is now on the Hyundai website. The reviews from USA rate it higher than Toyota Kluger & Mazda CX-9.
I'm anticipating that other brands will need to discount so they don't loose market share. I'm particularly annoyed with Toyota who might be bringing the new Kluger next year, 3 years after it was released in the USA.
OP I believe your budget is in the ballpark for a base model new Land Rover Defender. Spec the rear diff and keep the other options low and you’re going to get a real go anywhere rig. Resale will be amazing too, I’m sure you could sell it for what you paid within the first year.
Thanks.
But seems the Defender is well above my budget
https://buildyour.landrover.com.au/lr2/r/engine/_/en_au/l663…
Maybe the new discovery is within.
The Defender is cheaper than the Disco, they just haven't released the lower models yet. There is a 4 cylinder 177kw Defender on the way, with classic steel rims, and it's mid $70k range. But if you don't have time to wait it's not applicable.
4cyl will be woefully underpowered.
@Euphemistic: Well the power certainly is, and headline torque means nothing without looking at the torque curve graph, also having an 8 speed makes up for any deficit of torque, I mean that is the point of a gearbox. Compared to a Prado with a 6 speed, I'd wager that the 8 speed Defender is faster 0-100kmh, and likely has more torque across the rev range from lower rpm.
Just read that Land Rover describe it as a 5+2 seating. Meaning he back row is for kids only. Might rule it out for OP if 3rd row comfort is important.
How many SUVs in Australia have anything but 5+2 seating? Unless you have something like a US Navigator or Suburban, the third row seating size is always woeful.
Some are better than others. I’ve sat in a few and they are fine for round town for an adult. Certainly wouldn’t want to sit there for hours though.
I know you've already had the Skoda recommended, however they've just released the Superb 'Scout'. It rides higher than the standard superb, aligns more so to a 'Passat All Track', and packs the Golf R engine - albeit with only a 0.7 second greater sprint to 100 km/h.
And completely incapable off-road. Read requirements
.
I must be reading a different overview of the car:
—> 'Go Off-Road with the All-New AWD Škoda Superb Scout'
—> 'Meet the first-ever Superb Scout, designed for those who want some of the off-road attributes available in the Kodiaq but are not fond of SUVs. It gets a series of upgrades over the standard Superb, including the essential all-wheel-drive as standard equipment'.
—> 'Advanced off-road capabilities'
—> 'Intelligent 4×4 drive'
—> 'Protective Rough Road Package with Off Road Mode'.
Maybe you mean 'the third row'?
Oh because the VW marketing department say it, it must be true. Facts: Skoda make zero off-road CLS le vehicles. They use single speed DSG gearboxes and front biased Haldex awd. Not capable of going off-road unless you mean wet grass. Even then it could easily get stuck. No VW group products even have a low range anymore, or locking rear diffs, with the exception of the Amarok. Stop believing the marketing BS and do some actual research.
@[Deactivated]: Yet again we go to the extremes. An auto vehicle with AWD and decent ground clearance will do light off road comfortably. Obviously it won’t rock crawl or cope with steep rocky terrain, but for many drivers the vehicle is capable of a lot more than most driver would give it credit for.
You don’t have to have a lifted locked 4wd with a winch for the vast majority of Australia’s trails.
Would I take one to Fraser Is? No. Victorian high country? I’d want to know the trail first.
@Euphemistic: Lol. OK You think you can take a softroader into the Vic high country. Good luck with that. The OP wants a vehicle capable of going offroad, not getting out of a muddy car park.
He wants a car with a low range.
@[Deactivated]: Of corse you can take an SUV into the high country. You can’t take it everywhere. you can take it further than a hatchback and not as far as a 4wd.
@[Deactivated]: Dave, Lisa, tony,
Doesn’t matter what I say, it’ll be woeful according to you because not euro.
Check out the Fortuner and Everest.
I would look at the new Fortuner. They had bad ride quality as per test drive reviews but the new model apparently is much better.
Ford Everest, comfortable, good tech, economical, powerful and torquey 2.0 diesel, very good off road and 7 seats (kids on the 3rd row)
Good offroad, yes. Very capable and very high suspension stock, no need for a lift even. Economical, reasonably, torquey, yes, powerful? Not so much.
Did you look at the ….
1. Landrover Discovery or
2. Discovery Sport?
I believe they're in the price bracket, have ample space in the 3rd row, off-road, and should be okay in the resale department.
Others I'd suggest, but may not fit your three requirements, are:
- Hyundai Palisade .
We were in the US earlier this year and I came across the Kia Teluride. MY GOD that looked amazing…. but as I've found they won't be coming to Aus, so the Hyundai is the sister car of that which is coming to AU.
- LDV D90 - If you're looking at Haval, check this one out. It's much of the same.
Comparison between Haval H9 & LDV D90 here
- Tesla Model X, I know this doesn't fit into your category but worth a look. It's not in the price range, off-road is iffy but are a gorgeous car which may suffice standard sand/bush environments but clearance is non-existant and only 1% of users would actually take it offroad, if ever. May be worth consideration only.
Hope the above helps. Good luck.
Update: Kia Telluride off-road review (The Hyundai Palisade is similar but thought I'd share this as it's just sooo much nicer to look at). Before someone says that the Palisade doesn't have off-road capability.
Much appreciate, Hyundai Palisade and kia telluride won't be available this year so I may not have time to wait, thanks for the suggestion!
The Kia version is so much better looking!
My opinion:
Tier 1:
Toyota Prado - Full time 4wd (AWD), Part time 4wd (Locking center diff), low range; rear diff lock on GXL or higher. More boot space than the Pajero Sport when comparing 3rd row folded, but less when 3rd row up. Substantially more expensive than the Pajero Sport, better off road, arguably not as good on road. The new 150kw engine since October 2020 is worth going for over anything earlier.
Mitsubishi Pajero Sport - Full time 4wd (AWD), Part time 4wd (Locking center diff), low range, 2WD; rear diff lock on GXS or higher. Amazing value for money, but rear window vision is limited, and if you have baby seats, the top tether strap connects to the roof, impinging on 3rd row head space.
Tier 2:
Mitsubishi Pajero - Same amazing transfer case as the Pajero sport (2wd, 4 High, 4 High Lock Center, 4 Low) which like the Pajero Sport can be run in 4WD High permanently (just not in 4 High Lock Center obviously). More boot space than either the Prado or the Pajero Sport. It's ageing, though, and can't be fitted with some modern safety gear like Autonomous Emergency Braking.
Ford Everest - Full time 4WD, part time 4WD, low range; rear diff lock on Trend or higher. Very capable off road, amazing on road, very large boot space and occupant room in all rows. Ford, however, have a number of law suits in progress, and the tech required to get 157kw out of a 2l diesel engine is space age. Given Ford had trouble with leaking oil in the 3.2L engines, I don't think the 2L is going to be any more reliable.
Tier 3:
Isuzu MUX - 2WD, Part time 4WD, low range; No AWD. Very good boot space. Fundamentally great, but the lack of AWD really lets it down. Starting on a hill in the wet, you'd be outclassed in grip by the Mazda CX7 next to you.
Holden Trailblazer - A rebadged MUX. Not sure what's different.
Toyota Fortuner - 2WD, Part time 4WD, low range; No AWD. 3rd row seats fold… weirdly, eating in to usable boot space.
Tier 4:
Haval H9 Full time 4wd, fancy electronic center diff that splits torque from 15/85 up to 50/50. Rear diff locker. It's Petrol only, which for a car that size it's really going to drink it like a fish. Reliability and customer service is a relative unknown.
Nissan Patrol - Again, petrol. Fundamentally great, but that fuel economy eats in to your driving range, not just your wallet.
Many thanks for the inputs.
I will review this post from time to time in next a few months:)
I was in a similar situation last year. Looked at Prado, Fortuner and many others. Settled with a Pajero Sport GLS for $25k less than a Prado VX.
Came with 7 year warranty too.
I never looked at these cars for power, but they are good as lazy comfy touring cars.
Not for acceleration or fast cornering.
If power for acceleration in a 2 tonnes car is a priority, then look at Cayenne, Merc GLS, BMW X7, etc. But no doubt these would cost 2x-4x of what a typical mainstream 4x4 costs and for the price difference you can always get an Euro hot hatch or sedan with DSG DCT and tune it with suitable mods to do 10s quarter mile on drag strips.
Thanks.
Pajero Sport GLS's third row seats are the major concern for us, other than that we are happy about it, we will have a look in dealership next week along with Mux.
I've had a 179cm adult in the back with a kid with no issues. If it's kids there is definitely enough space. Teens love it as they are in their own little world.
Maybe you could snag a demo Land Rover Defender in that price range (might be hard to get a lower spec model though).
Just save up for a Merc AMG SUV instead.
What is off-roading to you though? Do you go off-roading regularly in the past etc?
If you are just going on fire trails to get to the camp site or to the ski fields, then it is unlikely you need a proper 4WD set up - maybe a CX9 would be more appropriate esp that most driving does occur on road regardless of intention.
Tesla Model Y.
should land starting around 92k.
worth the stretch if you take into account the enormous amount of money youre going to save on fuel (versus electricity) and a much slower depreciation rate.
Have you looked at the new merc GLB 200?
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/mercedes-benz/glb-class/glb…
Base model fits your price range has 7 seats great city car.
We got the 250 and have been loving it!
The back two seats are way too small. Hardly any leg room for an adult.
for long trips yes if adults are in the back, but if youve got kids and extra adults having the kids in the 2 extra seats is no issue.
We had 2 6 foot high people in the very back of our car for a half an hour trip and they said it was fine. Obviously a big 2 hour+ trip you'd want to consider other options but its still not too bad
Hey Mate,
Can you give me an idea of what the realistic cost would be to buy a 2020 GLB 250 with only 3000 kms dealer demo. With Vision and Sports package.
Looking to buy one soon from dealer.
Thanks
you could knock them down to about ~80-84k. Then try and get the interest rate down (go with a business if you can) on monthly repayments as much as you can if you go that route.
Have put in diary to check back 30th Dec to report on end of year and also 30th March 2021 to give you a Q1 report. Unless anyone has a good crystal ball they can recommend on a not very big budget.
@[Deactivated]: When the Cybertruck is released do I get to say a Range Rover or Landcruiser is useless for off road with their insufficient ground clearances?
:)