Can You Be Liable for Intentionally Not Helping in a Crash?

jsrz18 on 10/10/2020 - 20:16
Last edited 10/10/2020 - 20:17

Bit of an odd hypothetical question, but I'm curious.

Let's say you're driving and you've got some d**khead driving aggressively behind you and then he switches lanes and comes up next to you with the windows down, sticking the finger and yelling abuse and what not, but you don't really give a crap since you're in the left lane doing the limit, if not a tad bit over. And then he changes lanes again so he's in front of you and tries to brake and then speeds up again. The other car is loud as hell. Now everything goes back to normal, however, 500m later the other driver completely loses control and drives right into a tree and the car is completely wrecked. You slow down and have a good look, but since the other driver is probably some scumbag that's high on drugs and has probably never really worked a day in his life, you intentionally drive on because you believe that him dying is a win for society, and you don't believe this is a life worth saving. You've also worked hard all day and cannot wait to get home to watch the footy. You don't stop to help and you don't call the ambulance or police, you don't give a crap at all. Even once you've arrived home, you still don't call for assistance.

Hypothetically, let's say the other person is now dead, or has lost both their legs. Would you have any sort of criminal liability? I would assume that there'd be none whatsoever since you didn't do anything wrong but just wondering.

Automotive

Comments

    • jsrz18 on 11/10/2020 - 19:54
      -2

      I usually don't make friends with scumbags and dropkicks so I don't think it would be much of a loss.

      • gromit on 12/10/2020 - 08:28
        +5

        I think most of us would say if you are willing to drive by without rendering assistance you are most definitely in the category of scumbag and dropkick yourself so I highly doubt you don't make friends with similar.

        • field1985 on 12/10/2020 - 14:15
          +1

          Exactly. He doesn't seem to understand that genuinely good people don't become friends with scumbags (ie someone who wouldn't render assistance) like him.

          Actually.. he probably does and that's why he posted it anonymously on an online forum. Either that, or he doesn't have any friends. LOL

  • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2020 - 19:25

    It depends on a number of factors. One of which is the state you're driving in. I know in NT, you're obliged to assist even if not involved in the accident.

  • Munki on 11/10/2020 - 21:04
    +1

    OP should stop and piss on the corpse/dying person. Then take a dump on his chest for good measure.

    Is that the kind of answer you were looking for, OP?

    • jsrz18 on 11/10/2020 - 21:06
      +1

      No. I just wanted to know if there was any sort of legal liability for not stopping but now that I know there isn't so all good

    • Donaldhump on 11/10/2020 - 21:47
      +1

      Always do the dump first

      • Munki on 11/10/2020 - 21:58
        +1

        A man of experience. I'll take your word for it.

  • Donaldhump on 11/10/2020 - 21:47

    I’d stop and ask for directions.

  • Herbse on 11/10/2020 - 21:49

    Failure to render assistance is a law in Vic at least. You don't have to physically do anything but calling the police is a minimum. If the person dies that's an indictable offence.

    • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 11:57

      Ms Bakos on Wednesday ruled there was not enough evidence to support a conviction in relation to the charges of failing to render assistance after an accident as Mr Pusey was not technically a driver at the time of the crash.

      • Herbse on 16/10/2020 - 12:00

        What does this have to do with anything?

        The OP is describing a situation where he witnessed an accident, possibly with no one else witnessing and didn't call for assistance or do anything

        • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 12:02
          -1

          OP is technically not the driver at the time of the accident. This means that OP cannot be convicted of failing to render assistance.

          This has already been tested in case law.

          • Herbse on 16/10/2020 - 12:07

            @whooah1979: Huh? OP said he was driving?

            • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 12:14

              @Herbse:

              The OP is describing a situation where he witnessed an accident,

              Driving by an accident is different from being a driver involved in an accident. The latter requires the driver to render assistance while the former doesn't. OP is the former.

              • Herbse on 16/10/2020 - 12:19

                @whooah1979: The Pusey case is not the same. He was not the only person there and him not assisting or calling for assistance didn't affect the outcome. The op's situation is different.

                • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 12:22
                  -1

                  @Herbse: You're right, is not the same case. Please link a case where a driver that isn't a party to an accident has been convicted for failing to render assistance.

  • TheBird on 11/10/2020 - 22:07

    I don't know… on one hand, he might spawn the person who cures cancer.

    on the other…. I'm not sure if I'd be able to sleep as snugly at night when I find out he could have won the Darwin Awards had I not interfered. Some people value their 5 seconds of fame. I'd hate to be responsible for taking away his biggest contribution to society.

    See my dilemma?

  • Ace26 on 11/10/2020 - 22:35

    whatever happened to mateship (even when he/she is a dic*head)

    • WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 11/10/2020 - 22:55
      +5

      COVID-19 and border closures/exemptions, toilet paper shortages, etc. showed us mateship no longer exists in Australia.

      • macrocephalic on 12/10/2020 - 10:09
        +2

        I think our political climate showed that long ago. We're well down the track of "screw you I got mine".

  • Miss B on 11/10/2020 - 23:01
    +5

    I was driving along doing the speed limit and a guy came speeding up and overtook me, crashed into an embankment when he was probably a few hundred metres in front of me. He was fine, car was not in great shape. I stopped and asked if he needed anything like to call someone or give him a lift somewhere. Gave him a lift home a couple of ks up the road.

    When I see an accident I always stop unless there's already several people and/or emergency services. I'm not hugely into other people's blood so I tend to call emergency services or, the time there was one, look after the child who was unharmed. Apart from the time the guy crashed into the embankment there was always at least one other person who had stopped, I let them deal with the injured people.

    • wisdom on 12/10/2020 - 10:51

      Good on you miss B :)

  • macrocephalic on 12/10/2020 - 10:08
    +1

    You should have called 000. There are two reasons, firstly, I don't think anyone deserves to be left wrapped around a tree - even if it was their own stupidity. Secondly, if the ambulance comes and collects them then the police are also going to come and investigate and ticket them as required. If you don't call 000 and they're not hurt then they might simply get their car towed and the police will never know about it.

  • Mosher on 12/10/2020 - 10:26
    +2

    The sad thing about these bad drivers](profanity) is if they get into a accident they walk away without a scratch and the other person ends up badly injured or worse dead

  • Bid Sniper on 12/10/2020 - 10:34

    in NSW under duty of care legislation, no.

    If caused the accident or say you will assist and dont, then you're liable for criminal negligence. At workplace, there is a duty of care, so you have to help there but on the street, nope.

  • Blackadda on 12/10/2020 - 10:39
    +4

    Even assholes deserve to have an ambulance called for them and attempts at first aid made if their life is on the line.

  • watson4884 on 12/10/2020 - 10:59

    Will dial 000 and mention that there was an accident.. Then move on…..

  • GordonD on 12/10/2020 - 11:04

    I've actually been in the situation the OP describes.

    I used to race my hotted up car in club events. I went for a run on the road on the night before an event with very sticky slick racing tyres on to take the green off them. They corner far better than road tyres. A couple of idiots tried to race me through a sharp bend and ended up stuffed into power pole. If I had stopped, I would have been booked for having "unroadworthy" tyres. So I kept going. But I did report it from further up the road. I believe one of them died.

  • khomeini on 12/10/2020 - 11:47

    I've never liked dangerous drivers (different to speeding drivers)… and had varied experiences.

    The strangest being on with a 4WD going past me at 100+ over speedbumps in a 40/50km windy & dark road. Full headlights, going on the other-side, off-road and through bush where at one stage I didn't see him for so long I thought he'd gone a few kms ahead…. further up at some lights, I saw him come next to me in another lane, with a bashed car, still revving. Either he was drunk/on drugs or just an idiot. Scary as I had a 6yr old in the car with me at that time.

    But devils advocate:
    - We've nearly all sped (if you haven't you're a grandma).
    - All of us have been idiots or done something stupid in/with their car (again see note above)
    - Duty of care, wouldn't you like to get help even if you were an idiot (trying to showoff or doing something you shouldnt have)
    - Redemption - who's to say that when someone is an areshole, they can't change in future… we all have that capacity. The least you can do is help.
    - Even if that person was an imbecile, perhaps they were a father/mother or carer of someone else. It's not just them it impacts but their whole family structure.

    I've seen accidents, with all of the above. I've been a speed demon when younger with minor bingles and know some who were similar (generally in the motor industry), now driving "normalish". Have also looked after people at fault and assisted them with medical care.

    Regardless of what happens, call 000 & render aid if possible - even if you're at fault or consequences are not in your favour.

    (Reading a post above, it's scary… as imagine if your tyres whilst slick may've spun and you carreened into people… would you have stopped as you would've been at fault and your car unroadworthy? - that's why a lot of people do not stop to render aid, based on being at fault).

    Ofcourse the above is my opinion only.

  • djones145 on 12/10/2020 - 12:11

    ring 000 and move on

    u dont know how bad the car has been damage, could explode, leaking fuel, live wires
    you know know how badly hes been injury, could cause more damage moving him
    leave it to the professionals! you call the cops, ambo, SES they can handle it

  • Gronk on 12/10/2020 - 13:15
    +2

    If you weren't involved in the accident in any way then I don't believe you're under any obligation to stop and render assistance. Put it this way, I wouldn't want my other half to be obliged to render assistance to someone who had been intimidating / abusing her only a few seconds earlier… @$&% that guy…

  • funnysht on 12/10/2020 - 14:00

    An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I think just always be nice and help out. Then you have no regrets

    (btw i only read part of the story)

  • Kamsi on 12/10/2020 - 14:43

    I'm sorry but I let the bastard go and do a bit of pry for his soul with a cold beer when I get home.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2020 - 14:47

    What if they ran over someone just beforehand and definitely killed them…I don't think it's an easy question and I wonder if this changes the answer for people. Drunk drivers or those who speed don't get much sympathy when they physically hurt someone but probably didn't intended to kill anyone. What's common is the lack of consideration for others. I don't think someone who hoons and accidentally kills someone is any worse than someone who hoons in general, it just came down to doing it at the wrong place at the wrong time.

  • T1OOO on 12/10/2020 - 21:11

    Nope, but I’d be a moungral if u didn’t assist. U wine be able to change something like that ever if they die perhaps that act means he changes his life and goes on to save your children one day that end up being like he used to, how would u feel?

  • ajh on 12/10/2020 - 21:16

    You should always try and help someone. Your gift could be thankless but many people may be helped in your course. Everyone has a bad day every now and then.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2020 - 21:21

    Well common sense applies here, I'm sure when you got your license you may have learned this.

    Liability

  • Eeples on 12/10/2020 - 23:31
    +2

    I suppose everyone has their own moral code.

    I think your motivation not to stop (the earlier bad behaviour of the driver) means very little compared to saving this persons life.

    Any help you give even if it is just alerting services surely would make you ‘feel good’. (And give you a clue what you consider to be morally right).

    But, like I said, I suppose everyone has their own moral code.

    Pub Test: Would you really feel ‘good’ relating this story to mates down the pub?

    • jsrz18 on 13/10/2020 - 17:13
      +1

      Not sure why this is something that would be told as a story at the pub. Its more so for my own satisfaction and 'feel good' experience.

    • Ozsaver88 on 14/10/2020 - 11:11

      Pub Test: His freaking head came off mate and I saved some tax payers money for our country. What a feeling!

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 13/10/2020 - 09:29

    driving aggressively behind you and then he switches lanes and comes up next to you with the windows down, sticking the finger and yelling abuse and what not

    First rule is assess dangers.

    I'm not stopping my vehicle, leaving it and approaching the scene with an enraged (profanity) present.

  • biozet on 13/10/2020 - 09:32

    that's gold…thanks for posting

  • wallaceff on 13/10/2020 - 09:45
    +1

    I'm almost certain, that you, and other health professionals are under no obligation to stop unless:
    - someone came to you as a doctor in your doctors practice at the time, and they knew you were a professional and asked for help and you declined
    - you initiated help and then just left when it was not appropriate for you to 'just leave' (the usual - you know, about to die, you knew they were getting worse, nobody else around to take over care and you just left etc).
    - out on the roads etc, unless you are Police or Ambulance, nearly no other health professionals have training to manage a field situation, it is not something that most people in health would feel in their comfort zone.

  • dlakers3peat on 13/10/2020 - 14:39

    Did you just watch the last episode of Seinfeld?

    • [Deactivated] on 13/10/2020 - 21:39

      Haha. I thought that was a pretty wtf episode. Especially for a finale.

  • N1NJ4W4RR10R on 13/10/2020 - 17:05

    You don't have to help, but I'd be very suprised if you didn't have to call 000 and report it.

    Assuming that, because someone was being a knob to you in one encounter, they're some "dreg of society" is one hell of a leap, and if your train of thought from there would be to just leave them to die then you probably need to look at the mirror because that lack of regard for other people seems to be exactly what you're critising in them.

    That was one oddly descriptive "hypothetical" by the way.

  • Dack Smith on 14/10/2020 - 08:23
    +1

    Burn baby burn!

    Consumed by fire and metal, the idiots will be reborn anew

  • Ozsaver88 on 14/10/2020 - 11:06
    +1

    Firstly, +1 for the gripping narrative!

    I would call the emergency number and seek for help. Sorry I didn't say that I would jump in and help them immediately. Just ring 000, sit nearby and ROFL until the help arrives.

    Once the police/ambulance/fire arrives, tell them "Sir, I did my best…[to stop laughing] and its very unfortunate…[these bogans are born to eat my tax paying dollars]"

  • Milk tea on 14/10/2020 - 15:48

    Can't people get in trouble with the law 'fail to render assistance' at an accident?

  • lostn on 14/10/2020 - 17:50

    No, you are not liable if you don't render assistance, as long as you don't get in the way of other people trying to help. It's not your problem.

    If someone got hurt inside your workplace though, the standards expected of you are higher. If you're first aid trained, you definitely can't just leave someone bleeding or hurt. I don't know about if you're not trained though.

  • Ghost47 on 14/10/2020 - 19:43

    Let him die.

  • whooah1979 on 16/10/2020 - 11:50

    https://apple.news/A08U-qcqrR2aRXpYZbQEhZg
    Ms Bakos on Wednesday ruled there was not enough evidence to support a conviction in relation to the charges of failing to render assistance after an accident as Mr Pusey was not technically a driver at the time of the crash.

  • DarthAntz on 16/10/2020 - 12:17

    Depends on what type of footy. If its RL, you're just as useful to society as the wrecked driver.

  • Josho on 16/10/2020 - 16:29

    Rendering assistance can be as simple as a phone call to emergency services,

    But you may not have had your phone on you at the time/ reading glasses or whatever…

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