There seems to be a lot of controversy at the moment around the QLD Governments decision to keep the border closed.
Just thought I would see what OzBargain thought and what is your reasons behind it?
Should QLD Open The Border to NSW?
Ltasty-falafel on 08/10/2020 - 15:24
Poll Options
- 178Yes - Open immediately
- 2Yes - Change to between 1-10 days with no community transfer
- 26Yes - Change to between 11-20 days with no community transfer
- 323Yes - Only after 28 days of no community transfer
- 40No - Keep the border closed until there is a COVID-19 vaccine
Comments
Just lock the borders, who cares if we can't see friend or family for the last time or not at all … who cares if our houses drop 20% in value and our jobs remain insecure and business go bust or close to it because controlling the virus comes first. My parents will never see some of their elderly friends in person again and that's a shame. Life is full of misery if we let this virus dictate our way of life then we can just live in unhappiness.
Relying on some vaccine that may or may never be found - it's like hoping to win the lotto. Read ten different infectious disease experts and you get ten different answers.
My parents will never see some of their elderly friends in person again and that's a shame
You want the elderlys life to end a little earlier?
That's not nice.
Seriously? How?
Let’s assume there are 50 pocket unknown cases in nsw, of the 8.2m people in nsw… there’s a 0.0006% chance of one of those people coming into QLD.
Then the mortality rate of people over 65 is like 2%.
The chance of a covid infected person from NSW visiting an elderly person in QLD and them unfortunately passing away (at the moment) is literally less than 0.00001%.
NSW largely has it under control, there’s outbreaks, there will probably always be outbreaks, but they’re identified, managed and contained pretty quickly. It’s been 2-3 months in NSW since an outbreak spread deeply outside of the cluster, we don’t close off suburbs… why do you think closing the QLD border helps?
I get it when there’s large outbreaks, I understand why Victoria should stop their people leaving until there’s only the odd case here and there.
But put yourself in the shoes of many who have family across borders, has a business reliant on tourism etc - those people will be impacted for a long time (ie until a vaccine), if QLD keeps their border closed.
Personally I couldn’t care much, I speak to my family in QLD on the phone weekly, won’t see them for Christmas, sucks, is what it is. I’ve been loving holidays in Byron and Yamba when I otherwise would have went to north QLD… I do love seeing a bucket load of QLD holiday makers in those spots too.
Instead of closing the borders - why not work collectively with other states to find ways to manage and mitigate? Would help our economy and lives get back together…
Oh back to your point - I don’t agree we should impact many, to avoid a 1 in 10million chance of your elderly friend dying?
As bad and slow as the NBN is, we can STILL very much use FaceTime and many other video goodies.
Even Zoom if you are OK.During wars people lost a lot more without a killing virus, just monkeys with guns fighting.
The Planet of the Apes reboot was fictional FYI.
The price of apples has not changed dramatically, FYI
Why isn't there an option of just kicking out QLD completely? For some reason most things wrong with Australia seem to stem from QLD.
I'm kidding obviously, but this idea is just silly. We should be doing local containment. Locking down entire state borders make no sense when the vast majority of NSW doesn't even have any cases. Why is there an arbitrary border anyway? I thought we were meant to all be one country.
It would, probably, help if the Federal Government setup a committee that ran a Covid response across all the States.
It would help if the federal government and sky news didn't bash the Vic/QLD governments no matter what, ones doing really well, the others doing really badly, meanwhile NSW gets a pass while their deputy premiere takes mental health leave for texting while driving.
If the USA can tolerate Florida, we must match that and tolerate Queensland.
Ya know, but it isn’t like Florida is even the most nutjob state in America.
Just like they must tolerate California, we must also tolerate Victoria ;)
Hahahaha.
Yeah :(
@[Deactivated]: Man, even given the issues in California I would, much, prefer to live there than just about anywhere else in America.
@try2bhelpful: California is where Melbourne is headed.
Actually, sometimes I feel that Melbourne is where California is headed.
@brendanm: I’ve visited a few places in America, and a few places in Australia, and I stand by my choices. YMMV.
Ah yes, tolerating that 14.6% GDP that they provide the rest of the country.
So hard to tolerate. So so hard.
Edit: GDP per capita argument :)
@NatoTomato: GDP or gsp? Because GDP refers to a country, not a state. Victoria is behind Qld, NSW, act, wa and nt in the gsp per capita stakes.
@brendanm: The “per capital” is not as important as the percentage contributed; Victoria is second to NSW in % contribution to economy. Also, what Victoria doesn’t have is a lot of “stuff” to dig out of the ground or a huge dependence on Tourism.
America calls it GDP and California is the highest contributing state in the USA.
@try2bhelpful: I understand that, I'm not the one who bought it up, was just replying to the person that did. Not even sure why GDP or gsp were bought up to be honest.
California also has quite a poverty issue. Strange in a place with so much money. It's almost like there is a tremendous wealth disparity, I wonder why that is?
@brendanm: Frankly America is like a third world country. Great wealth, and great poverty, and terrible infrastructure. California is, probably, the most “progressive” State but there is only so much that can be done when you are anchored to the rest of America. I find is amazing how easily they accept the death of their fellow Americans, even children.Their health system is beyond bizarre. Tying it to your employer is crazy, I don’t see how that can be anything but anti jobs as it puts an extra financial burden on the employer. I’m sure, like so many other places, if they gave Universal Health Care a decent go they would realise their current system is sub optimal, but whoever is benefitting at the moment is very good at propaganda. We, originally, got Medibank and the Libs dumped it when they got back in. We then got Medicare and there is no way the Libs would dare dismantle it now. In fact the private health care industry is battling to keep afloat.
For some reason most things wrong with Australia seem to stem from QLD.
WTF commie? Sir Joh is an Aussie icon and NZs greatest export. Hopefully Christiansen can carry on his legacy.
So you're complaining about QLD closing their borders but you want to kick them out? Does not compute.
Yeah keep international borders closed
I completely agree with you I'm not sure why people are downvoting your comment. Queensland had people freely moving between areas with and without cases within Queensland but at the same time was stopping people from parts of NSW with no cases coming in, even if for compassionate reasons. Containment should be based on actual hotspots not calling a whole state a hotspot arbitrarily.
38 votes after 28 days no cases lol, won’t happen.
We live 3 hours south and the last 3 years we only use Qld and Gold Coast airport to leave the country as it’s easier than Sydney, used to holiday up there when our kids were young.
She’s a nut job vote for her and you are mad lol.So you are from NSW then.
You can’t read
Three hours south and you talk about using Qld and Gold Coast airports rather than Sydney? So where are you then?
@try2bhelpful: Coffs is around 3 hours south of the border. It's much easier driving to GC airport than going another 6 hours to Sydney.
Mate, you can't write.
Mexican. Yeap.
I think the real problem is the current level of detected infection, anywhere, is a snapshot of what some people were doing two weeks ago. The disease can travel a long way, and through a lot of people, in two weeks. If people did the “right” things then the risks are, likely, low but it is hard to depend on people doing the right thing when one infected person can cause a significant outbreak. If the disease turned people a bright purple then we would have a pretty good idea of the scale of the problem, but for most people it is either minor symptoms or asymptomatic. If it didn’t kill people we might well let it run rampant as well. I, honestly, don’t know the answer but I look at what is happening in Europe and the figures are getting a tad scary again. Then again they might’ve lost most of their vulnerable people in the first wave. America is still running at, roughly, 1000 dead per day so they have basically given up doing much at all.
I don’t know the answer; but there is a real risk. Part of the problem is managing Covid has been pushed down on the States. If it was managed at a Federal level then the Premiers would feel less exposed in case of issues. Frankly, I wouldn’t be any of the Premiers for quids.
I'm glad it's not the Federal government running things, we'd probably be doing as well as the US. The only thing they seem to be doing is pushing for everything to be open, without doing anything to help the states prevent it spreading. Being run on a Federal level by a competent government would be great.
Ahh, but they pretty much are, and very successfully. The stuff ups have been as a result of the Vic and NSW government's, and it just so happens that's where the worst outbreaks have been.
Running what, exactly? No Federal response to Covid. The two most populous states, taking in the most Quarantine cases from overseas, are going to be the ones seeing the disease. The Federal Government seems to have forgotten there is a country called “Australia” when it let people with the disease cross the border.
@try2bhelpful: Well, the national cabinet which is coordinating the response, compared to just about every other country Australia has done exceptionally well, this is mostly due to the response on the borders, the two blights are the Cruise ship issue in NSW and the quarantine slip up in VIC, these were both the responsibility of the states.
Just like Rudd's response to the GFC was lauded, so will be Morrisons response to Covid. You need to not let your political preferance cloud your view.
Yes NSW and Vic have done the heavy lifting when it comes to quarantine, but that doesn't excuse their errors.
I think it should be open as soon as a consensus is reached between medical professionals and economists that it is the prudent thing to do.
The vast majority of our opinions here on Ozbargain are emotionally driven and should be ignored on such issues.
It is only closed because of political bitchyness.
Expediency, with an election coming up. The place copping it the worst it the GC, which just so happens to mostly vote Liberal. The gov spent half a mill of taxpayers money polling what Queensland thought about the border closures, you can bet it's that response feeding their decision making.
WA is talking about keeping their border shut until June next year. Tasmania still requires you to quarantine for 14 days upon arrival from interstate. Personally I don't mind if Qld keeps its borders shut for a while longer. I feel for the people whose livelihoods have been impacted, but I feel more for those who have lost loved ones due to the pandemic.
Good point. Qld seems to be most criticised when Tasmania and WA are just as strict if not stricter.
The border closure is not the big economy killer some politicians are pretending it is, and hence why Qld hasn’t been too bothered about keeping it closed. The ‘border bubble’ solves many localised issues. The closure upsets people who can’t visit family, but they like me, can use video conferencing. It cuts interstate tourism, but boosts intrastate tourism. Here in Noosa it has been very busy with loads of car based tourists coming from Brisbane & Gold Coast. Further north in FNQ tourism is suffering, but that’s more to do with an unwillingness to fly due to Covid. Opening borders won’t fix that.
Keep the borders closed. That way the Queenslanders will stay up there. Away from our fine friends here in NSW. Just like we want them too.
Thats what this post is about right?
NO… and NSW should tell QLD to shove it….
All this double standard, celebrities allowed to song and dance their way in to their million dollar safe-houses, whilst the poor stuck has to endure more debt and 14 days in Australia's crappy hotels. People unable to attend funerals, attend the birth of their child, yet other can simply sail in and blame it all on some underpaid deckhand.Why would Queenslanders wanna let Mexicans in? Remain Covid free or be swamped with tourists from Covid City - Melbourne.
Currently quarantining in Darwin holiday camp. Chockful of Victorians (Covid free) heading to Qld via backdoor.I pinky promise I won't bring diseases with me.
I'll leave covid where it belongs. Melbourne.
You can blame Morrison and Gladys. They have continually attacked Queensland over this. So naturally Queensland has made conditions tough. Once they open it will be harder to close should there be a repeat of last time when Victoria had the second wave. NSW has a different strategy to Queensland. Remember? It’s the so called Gold Standard that just never seems to get rid of the virus… The politics has people all divisive. So that breeds a large amount of complacency and with complacency you can never get on top of it. That is what is holding back Victoria. Bottom line: It’s about politics more than health. The comments here prove that if you look properly.
You are correct in my view, and one brand of politics is totally focussed on economics at the expense (or ignorance) of health considerations.
There is no need for health considerations when there isn't money to pay for it.
Look at places like Detroit. They proudly called themselves the union city. They didn't understand that money needs to come from value.
They lost it all and the city is a permanent ghetto.
They won't have many considerations to consider. They don't have money.
So the automation of the car industry, and the refusal of white workers to work with black workers didn't happen? Detroit fell apart because it was based on only one industry, and rampant racism. The motor industry just abandoned it.
@petry: It happened because the unions dictated how the industry and city should run. The details you listed are just part of the greater problem.
Running a city involves many considerations, most if not all require resources. If all the resources are awarded arbitrarily and disproportionately, the system collapses.
If we stifle the economy and bias our spending in healthcare, we will soon find out it is unsustainable. One can only hope we find out before it is too late.
@[Deactivated]: I think you mean if racism causes social disruption businesses leave. It was a 1 industry city - when the motor industry scaled down and left there was little left except the racism.
@petry: Racism had its part to play.
Anyway, even if you disagree with the exact cause, your rebuttal practically spells out the big picture - it was a 1 industry city.
A city cannot be a one anything city. One industry, one priority, one ideology…
Sure, we can argue whether it was the spending or the lack of economy that ultimately bankrupts a city but they're both part of the whole and either way, the city is bankrupt.
And good for you for identifying that when an industry leaves, the city is poorer. It's just a wild guess but I think having their operations restricted makes a business want to leave.
@[Deactivated]: The reason the industry finally abandoned the city was for profit - it moved a lot of capacity overseas.
The American car companies didn't care about their American workers - if their's any lesson to be learnt its don't allow American companies to take a stranglehold over your country.
Shame Australia didn't get that - poured a lot of money into American companies who later bailed, and it just keeps making the identical mistake year after year after year.
@petry: I agree, businesses will move where it is profitable.
There's nothing profitable about being in lockdown, nor being fear of lockdown in the future.
@[Deactivated]: Which is why our government doesn't want any lockdowns, and will kill or cripple thousands of us to make sure foreign companies make money out of us.
This comment is so true. Through relentless bullying of the Qld Premier, Scotty, Gladys and friends have made people that ordinarily may not like the Qld premier dislike the way she is getting treated. I know some people with blue blood that are voting for her based on the belief she is putting the best interests of the majority of Qlders first.
I predict Gladys and Scotty’s mate Deb has a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected, partially due to the torpedo they have inadvertently sent through her campaign.
Since when did political disagreement become bullying, whenever I hear this regurgitated, it just reminds me how this is pretty much all just political posturing, both the closing of the border, and the calls to open it.
Qld can open the border on 1 Nov, after the election on 31 Oct.
WA and Tas borders too.
As a Queenslander with a partner who lives down south, I haven't been able to visit her for many months now. It's a pretty depressing situation. I'm happy to deal with the border restrictions for now, but the thing I take issue with is the mandatory hotel quarantine. I've travelled down south and completed the 2 weeks at home before with no issues, but making me shell out $3600 to see my partner is insane. I get that it's hard to enforce home quarantines, and there were a huge amount of people who didn't follow their orders - but it's causing a lot of pain for many of us up here. Why not saddle those who get caught out with fines 10x what they were before? That'd be a lot more motivation to stay at home and not ruin it for the rest of us. Let me travel down south, and let me stay at home for 2 weeks afterwards. Just give us that option.
Would you say blue balls is worse than covid?
Book some accommodation south of the border in the bubble, she can come up and you can go down without having to quarantine on your return.
Yep - agree they should be allowing people to home quarantine at least. Especially those who go to visit dying relatives etc, they're not even allowing home quarantine for that, even if the area they visit has had no cases of COVID.
I don't mind what QLD does, provided they apply it to themselves too. For example, until today there was community transmission 28 ago in Brisbane. So if QLD was willing to quarantine SEQ from the rest of QLD, then absolutely, have a hard border against NSW. But they weren't. There was community transmission in Brisbane, and zero border to the rest of the state. That's my objection - QLD were applying a standard to others, that they didn't even meet or enforce on themselves.
For the record, I'd happily holiday (from NSW) in plenty of places in Australia (including QLD and WA), but not unless I can get there and back without quarantining.
Nah, build a wall. Keep them cane toads out.
School holidays are over now. Qld just missed out on probably 100.000’s of potential tourists from nsw. I was planning to take the kids on holidays to GC bit ended up going south near Victorian border as most of coastal nsw was booked out.
NSW has only few cases here and there and it does not justify shutting the borders as we will never really eradicate Covid truly until the vaccine is found and even then ?????.Just feel sorry for QLD tourist operators as she will run them aground.
Stay in your own state, covid pleb.
I've just spent 5 weeks travelling around coastal central and north Qld and accomodation managers have all reported gang-buster business, e.g 2.5 times the usual. The only complaint I heard was that they couldn't get enough rest as business was too busy.
Yes accommodation prices are high.. all Qlders travelling in our own State.
A lot of grey nomads who made it in are just living here in caravan parks, everyone who would go overseas has been travelling in QLD instead and backpackers with rich parents are still around as well. Talking to the lady who ran the last hotel we stayed in, she reported they've been doing "Christmas-level" business since March.
Went to Great Keppel Island last weekend, ferry was packed both ways. Weekend before went to 1770, every pet friendly accommodation was booked, we only got in because someone cancelled.
They're not getting run into the ground at all.
No need to be so dramatic. I'm traveling in FNQ right now right after the school holidays and I actually had trouble getting some of the bookings I wanted. All accomodation owners, tour operators and colleagues I've spoken to have remarked on how crazy the school holidays were.
We're living life as if COVID didn't happen (other than some social distancing stuff at restaurants and work) without having to worry about COVID spreaders from down south. She'll get my vote this election.You might feel differently if you weren’t able to visit a dying relative in a part of NSW with zero COVID cases without spending two weeks in hotel quarantine with young children.
She’ll probably get my vote just because I’m unimpressed with LNP, but the lack of compassion for the CHO, health minister and premier has been astounding. Not allowing people who are grieving or recovering from surgery to even home quarantine when there has been no cases where they’ve visited, but letting people move freely from Logan and Ipswich when there were community cases to anywhere in Queensland 🤔
'Qld just missed out on probably 100.000’s of potential tourists', some of whom may have covid…
CLOSE IT FOREVER.
I don't mind the borders opening but what I do worry is that if there's community transmission, it could potentially spread like rapid fire.
I witness very little social distancing indoors like restaurants and shopping centres, ppl not putting in their info at restaurants, 30ppl Private gatherings allowed (this is fine outdoors but not in indoor confined spaces), no masks, etc
A lot of countries are living with Covid. Ppl can go out, go to work, go to gym but they are really good at following guidelines, mandatory masks indoors and good hygiene practice.
Open borders but put in restrictions and most importantly enforce these restrictions. Mask wearing is the norm most countries in the world except for Oz.
Lots of Queensland tourist operators are doing better than ever as Qlders can't travel interstate and holiday locally. At least that's the case here on the Sunshine Coast.
Have friends who operate holiday cottages and are 100% booked out till next year which has never happened before.
We looked at at booking a house close to the beach for family and friends, nothing under $4000 a week! Could get similar property last year for about $2500.
True to an extent but the QLD market is much smaller just by virtue of being a smaller population. Lots of Queenslanders are now travelling within the bubble into NSW and holidaying with friends and family from other parts of NSW. When I was looking for accommodation in school holidays there was virtually nothing in NNSW but heaps available on the Gold Coast.
What about all the kids who miss out on getting high and drunk for SCHOOLIES in qld?
Poor diddums I guess = less unwanted pregnancies…..
yeah reckon the predators are having it tough there…
I don’t really support the border closure because we are at a level that is manageable with good testing and contact tracing and states need to act reasonably and seek risk management strategies not “elimination” which just… simply isn’t feasible.
However, there is some credibility in the criticism that is coming NSW way. We have gotten to the point where we are turning back from being a proactive healthcare system, and back to a reactive one.
Testing capacity was like 20k a week. We are doing 6k a week. Wasted potential! That could be finding and stopping these community transmissions.
The premier has been warning about the low testing rates, but what it signals is that the “strategy” needs to change. If people aren’t coming in for screening we shouldn’t just shrug and say “slow day in the lab.”
Go out and test the community! Do a blitz at a mall! Screen visitors at hospital entry points. Set up a random swab mail-out system.
We shouldn’t have “unused” capacity. We should be filling it. So for that reason I can somewhat understand being wary of opening the floodgates.
Pathology companies are milking it. Medicare rebate is $44 for a 5min test and $80+ in clinics/hospitals. All taxpayers.By all means, test if meet criteria but so much wasteful testing.
Or better yet, self isolate and stay home if you have symptoms. Virus cannot spread if no one to spread if to.
And for ppl that say what about asymptomatic? Wear masks and social distance.
It’s an essential health service, it costs money. $44 is pretty reasonable for a PCR test - which takes a few hours, nursing staff and pathology scientists. Not 5 minutes. If they’re milking it: let them. It’s their job and it is helping us uncover community transmission. Finding and isolating cases for $44 saves much more than letting cases run rampant and treating them in the emergency department and possibly intensive care. Again: proactive healthcare, not reactive healthcare.
If they did random swabs at hospital entry points as per one of my suggestions - we maybe could have prevented outbreaks in Liverpool and Concord hospitals which saw entire wards closed, cleaned, and staff and visitors quarantined at huge taxpayer cost.
So people here understand that between 3 and 6 % of covid survivor's don't recover?
Some are crippled. Suggest people start reading outside the mainstream media because scomo ain't gonna tell you. Opening things up cripples some of those who survive.
And on top of that the compulsory injection here will be risky and uninsured.
'But the government has rejected calls to set up a no-fault vaccine injury compensation scheme, instead opting to pick up the bill for any compensation payout if a member of the public takes legal action against the drug companies.
University of Sydney Associate Professor Nick Wood, a vaccine expert who designs hospital immunisation programs, said Australians who received a COVID-19 vaccine "for the benefit of themselves and the community" deserved the reassurance of a "safety net" through a no-fault scheme in case they experienced a rare adverse reaction.
Grattan Institute health economist Stephen Duckett, a former secretary of the federal health department, agreed that such a scheme was needed, saying there would "inevitably" be some adverse events associated with the vaccines and that some may take years to appear.
No-fault vaccine injury compensation schemes allow people who experience an adverse reaction to access compensation without having to convince a court that the vaccine was the cause of their injury.'
When will people understand the current government doesn't care about Australians? They will kill and cripple Australians for profits which will go to a foreign government…
Tracking the spread would be crazy if borders were open between states that have infection rates going up, Ruby Princess proved that and we can only thank the Federal Government and NSW Government for that mess.
Allow states to keep their own restrictions to deal with local cases and soon enough everyone will be good to go, this rush to open will only cause more damage, just look at Europe.
My view is it will be impossible to maintain. I think they should move to a rolling 28 day average of less than 0.2 cases. Allows for a case every 5 days. Which during a pandemic isn't too crazy. And if it starts to get out of control, it'll quickly go above that 0.2 and can close the border again.
so its ok to let australian's die and get crippled unnecessarily
200 days of lock Down and closed borders Will also cripple. Is our solution really to lock down n close borders each time there's an outbreak for the next few years?
There are plenty if countries that have successfully controlled the spread.
Which btw none of measures australia is taking seriously and enforcing.
This is why our only solution is zero cases. Ppl want to have normal lives, not wear mask etc
Apparently Newgate's weekly coronavirus tracking survey shows 67% of Australians want the borders opened up before christmas. AFR article on the topic. Survey results for those who can't get past the paywall.
How many of those voting know that if you survive covid you may still be crippled for life?
The reason why Australians are being kept in the dark about this is to obtain this sort of response.
People should be asking why allowing the spread is a good idea when the government knows the real consequences?
Lockdowns and border shutdowns have been effective to bring down Covid-19 numbers but elimination is near to impossible. So we can control this virus at the current levels without the existing lockdowns and shutdowns unless if there is incompetence in management ofcourse. When being super restrictive for "health" reasons we sometimes forget that poor economy in itself leads to immediate and long term negative health outcomes in so many different ways i.e. mental health, funding of the health system e.t.c.
Open the border to parts of NSW without community cases. Base restrictions on actual hotspots not making the whole state a hot spot.
And
Be more compassionate in making exemptions to hotel quarantine e.g. to attend funerals, see dying relatives, receive cancer treatment and then come back to Queensland, people should be allowed to home quarantine instead of hotel quarantine. Especially if they haven’t even been to an area with COVID cases.
you do appreciate the long term costs of caring for thousands of disabled people are greater than the short term gains?
as well as not caring a damn about the many lives ruined.
Yep, hung her (CMO) out to dry, when there were applications that were knocked back and looked bad. Said it wasn't her call as the premier. But then crows about being tough on the border when it suits.