There seems to be a lot of controversy at the moment around the QLD Governments decision to keep the border closed.
Just thought I would see what OzBargain thought and what is your reasons behind it?
Should QLD Open The Border to NSW?
Ltasty-falafel on 08/10/2020 - 15:24
Poll Options
- 178Yes - Open immediately
- 2Yes - Change to between 1-10 days with no community transfer
- 26Yes - Change to between 11-20 days with no community transfer
- 323Yes - Only after 28 days of no community transfer
- 40No - Keep the border closed until there is a COVID-19 vaccine
Comments
"Border Zone" is currently open per Stage 4, general border should open 1st Nov pending any untraced outbreaks.
BORDERS
NSW: Visitors and returned travellers from
New South Wales can enter Queensland with
a valid Queensland Border Declaration Pass
without having to complete mandatory
quarantine, provided community
transmission is under control (including
whether there have been any unlinked
cases in the previous 28 days).
Thanks.
QLD and NSW border doesn't affect me… however VIC and NSW border i wish they would open before December
Why? So this can't happen?
"In a new super-low for ignorance, callousness and downright f***wittery the NSW government has gone above and beyond. Anyway, this farmer down in Vic needs to get feed to his sheep which are 25km away…but on the NSW side of the border. So the farmer contacts the idiots in government (big mistake) to get a 'permit' (paperz please!) and this is what they told him. First, he has to ship the 40 tons of food to Melbourne, then he has to air freight the 40 tons of food to Sydney where it will sit in quarantine for 2 weeks while his sheep starve. Then he has to freight it from Sydney to his farm near the border. Anyone know what it costs to air freight 40 tons of hay from Melbourne to Sydney?"
What the hell did I just read? Isn't freight exempt?
Apparently not. I can link to a clip from the farmer involved if you like.
@ThithLord: It's at the start of this vid https://www.bitchute.com/video/RgIusD6l1njG/
(Fair warning for any sensitive souls who can't deal with alternative news sources I suggest stopping the vid after the farmer has had his say. I will not be arguing for any of the other stuff claimed in the rest of the vid.)
Freight is exempt, (Border Pass required) he could simply have a truck pick up the feed in VIC and drive it into NSW
But that would not meet the rhetoric requirement for the video linked
Freight and transport operators require a current border entry permit issued by Service NSW to enter NSW from Victoria.
As announced in the national Freight Movement Code for the Domestic Border Controls – Freight Movement Protocol (the Code) and as part of a key strategy to reduce the spread of Coronavirus, freight operators are required to have a COVID-19 Safety Plan and drivers are encouraged to undertake voluntary COVID-19 testing on a rolling seven day basis.@jimbobaus: So you know better than him? He stated what the NSW guvnuts told him. He also stated that the rules changed, maybe they changed again.
Here's an update to the farce and hopefully some good news for the farmer (amazing what negative publicity can accomplish).
https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/6884420/hay-farce-prior-…
@EightImmortals: Have you considered that the farmer is full of shit and telling a story to suit the rhetoric of the anti-border closure crowd he is presumably a part of?
Not saying he is, but he could be.
ooohh ok… wow
this… most frustrating thing is I only want to go to Wodonga
Why don’t you go to America? You’ll love it there!
Yeah go… Oh wait, you can’t….
Well I think I'd prefer restrictions on freedom for the purposes of safety than having restrictions on safety…?
I do think 28 days of Zero cases of community transmission is unrealistic but I can see the argument for and against it. However, there comes a time when the lockdowns do more damage than the virus itself. The Economy or Life…. gotta strike a balance between the two…. which is obviously harder said than done. But what do I know right?
And the whole thing on "We're all in this together" is falling apart at the seams at both the National and Federal level.
You! For PM.
QLD is at 30 days now, it's not impossible.
"We're all in this together"
As far as I see it is us or them, there is no we. Im open to continence, so far they are winning. Liberty or Safety … who would think in 2020 Western world turn to the bad old idea that they condemned. Communism FTW !!!
Might as well chime in… Currently living in QLD and I think the 28 days of no community transmission is pretty harsh. I would support lowering this to something like 10-15 days.
Better to do 28 days and prevent outbreaks than lower it to 10-15 and end up with a huge outbreak thus causing another lockdown.
Unless you're the person whose business may go belly up if the government mandates the restrictions.
Personally, it will never affect me but I do feel for those who have lost their entire life's work not because of lack of customers but because their customers are forced to stay away.
Better for me and you to have the restrictions but someone is paying with everything they have.
but someone is paying with everything they have
Sometimes that someone wins and sometime doesn't.
We (community) get not much more when they win-win-win.
We (community) gain much more by being healthy and avoiding unnecessary risks that might benefit a minor minority.
@LFO: You're talking about "the greater good". History seems to repeat itself. Everytime "the greater good" allows the the masses to benefit, it comes at the destruction of the few.
It is not until you realise you see the damage of those outside the "greater good" that you realise the evil.
Celebrate our "safe approach" all you want and give yourself a pat on the back for "doing the right thing". Just know that there are some that have worked their entire lives for a fulfilling retirement and they're going to have that all taken away. They'll be in debt and they'll have no chance of rebuilding any sort of wealth. It was not a risk of doing business. Their wealth was legislated away.
These are the people paying for your "win-win-win."
It is not until you realise you see the damage of those outside the "greater good" that you realise the evil
Not at all.
Whilst countries like Sweden decided to remain free and normal, Australia decided to lock up and put restrictions to virtually anything and everything.
IN THAT CONTEXT of restricting peoples freedom and individual rights, Queensland should maintain restrictions.
It will be utterly stupid to have survived so many months of oppression of freedom (for our beloved and accepted normal free-for-all lifestyle) and then panic at the last mile because a few say their business (aka: MONEY) suffer.So it is IN THAT CONTEXT that I support a continuation of extra extreme care and restrictions as needed.
IF we had gone the Swedish way of freedom then it would have been different.
But then the bitching would have been how many obese and unhealthy, chronically ill, elderly people, etc, etc have died.You cannot win. The "greater-greater good" will not let you.
@[Deactivated]: Sure - people are definitely paying and they're paying so that (possible only other) people don't get unwell or possibly die - compare it to US death rates and across Aus we might have had 12 thousand dead by now. Maybe "better destitute than dead" should be our new motto. Sure, I haven't been affected by COVID and I feel for the people who have worked hard only to be screwed - but that doesn't change my opinion on our approach; being destitute in Australia isn't the death sentence it is in a lot of other countries thankfully
So you believe we should do what USA is doing? And you think keeping business open and allowing transmission of disease a good decision as business will flourish and someone doesn't loose everything they have but few people will die here and there is acceptable as it will keep someone in business !!
@SydBoy: You're trying to create a narrative of rich business owners vs poor ol peasant. Not sure where the US even comes into it but okay, go ahead.
There are those who are going to lose their employment. Without employment, they may be forced to sell their house, probably at the worst possible time. If you don't know how a domino effect works, look it up.
Many would have financial plans made decades in advance. Of course business owners are part of the subject but they're not the only ones affected.
It's not hard to see why there are supporters everytime a great atrocity is commited. People omit the possibility that they're supporting the same principles of the groups they readily shun.
Your prevention strategy could be executed at great expense to yourself (ie. Self isolation) but you rather have some mobility at the expense of the few.
Your ideology is not based on morality but from the safety of the masses. The few are powerless to disagree and to dissent.
So good on you. You seem to have convinced yourself that those who are paying are acceptable casualty and there is no other way.
@[Deactivated]: What do you propose brother? Seems kinda simple, the nation's which have placed less restrictions with trade off human life: initially UK, US, Brazil.
Then those which have taken pandemic seriously from the get go and/or benefit of being hit later on. Germany, Australia, NZ , China , Japan, S Korea. We were tragically fortunate enough to see results in other countries before applying our own restrictions. It's telling when the country of origin of the outbreak is still taking it serious and enforced a massive quarantine of a 10mil + city.
A virus doesn't care about someone's plans. The whole notion of an outbreak is something sudden and unexpected. The govt hasn't been through this before and are taking a conservative approach given what has happened around the world.
The isolation strategy is the best we have and needs to be enforced given many initially thought it was 'optional' for them and caused the virus to snowball.
A virus doesn't care about someone's plans.
No, and it seems government decision doesn't either.
The govt hasn't been through this before and are taking a conservative approach given what has happened around the world.
That doesn't justify knowingly screwing people over either. Ignorance is not a defence.
The individual self quarantines approach was attempted at the start but many decided it was optional for them. We had to move to more decisive rules to get positive outcomes.
So it seems the individuals do not care therefore coercion is required? That is pretty much, "you're free to do what you think is best as long as it is what we agree with."
The govt hasn't been through this before
Yes it has. H1N1 pandemic of 2009. Whether it's using those lessons or not is a different question.
What do you propose brother? Seems kinda simple, the nation's which have placed less restrictions with trade off human life: initially UK, US, Brazil.
Take a look at VIET NAM
@[Deactivated]: This coming from the guy who's advocating for letting people die so some battler can keep his business.
@sir-screwball: Where does it say to let people die? No one is forcing people to go out and expose themselves to infection.
Good try at pushing the binary possibility scenario. Nice to know there are some out there that are concerned enough for the health of others that they are willing to sacrifice someone else's livelihood.
@[Deactivated]: The less lockdown in place, the greater chance of community transmission. The greater chance of community transmission, the greater chance of death? It's not hard to figure out.
Also, if you want to know who to point the finger at for small businesses going under left right and centre you can blame the LNP because it's their dogshit knife-edge economy doing it.
Labor would have been putting more money into more pockets from the beginning and that would have included business owners. Small business owners would be able to keep the wheels turning for longer with less customers, people would have been less antsy to go out and expose themselves to the virus knowing they didn't have to in order to be able to eat and pay rent, and the whole thing would have been over faster.
Instead you have a LNP government who NEEDS the borders open and cannot afford to give people money. They've tripled the national debt since taking office under Tony Abbott and that's BEFORE COVID so don't let them tell you COVID is the reason. They can't manage money nor the economy for shit and it's THEIR fault this has happened as it has.
@[Deactivated]: Nobody is forcing people to go out and expose themselves to infection - but they will do it anyway and people will die; pretending otherwise is either being deliberately obtuse or not understanding human nature at all even in the face of a world of evidence currently.
I also chafe at the government increasing the retirement age and forcing me to put money into a super account I might never live to see just to bring up the populace who will actually need their super account values - that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist. Somebody always pays in a connected system, including those who might not benefit
@SydBoy: I am pretty sick of this all or nothing bullshit for lockdown defenders.
Quarantine international arrivals properly, protect vulnerable parts of the community, eg old people’s’ homes, eg don’t allow workers to travel from one to another home. Having properly functioning contact tracing.
Don’t kill small businesses.
And don’t make all of NSW a hotspot and prevent cross border business after three clusters pop up in Sydney.
The government has made a judgement call there are votes in persecuting NSW people because of fear.@entropysbane: Why do you say "Don’t kill small businesses." …When current government has provided majority of benefits to businesses. Being liberal government it was obviously that they will support business more….! Every small business got support.. except those who never paid tax and did all their business for cash in hand in previous years as they missed out on benefits…which is good as they will learn their lesson and start paying tax…! Those business who never paid tax or just show income below tax threshold are crying now…not everyone !
So why don't NSW government open their border with VIC without any permit?
Hypocrisy of liberal government is that they bullied QLD labor government to open the border and as soon as outbreak started in VIC the NSW shut it's borders to VIC…!
False equivalence there, no one is suggesting QLD open to VIC. A more accurate comparison would be with the SA lib government which has opened to NSW, where as the QLD Lab gov hasn't.
Read the comment, and tryagain.
@BestofOZB: Ok I'll just call BS on the "bullied" as it isn't substantiated and the rest of the point then falls apart, that's without getting into the false equivalence of case numbers when NSW and QLD closed their borders.
Vic has many cases, in fact over 90% of all COVID deaths in OZ. Not the same. Qld also is much more lenient on NSW residents than Vic ones.
NSW farmers can get a class exemption to do work in Qld easy peasy. Vic farmers can’t do that, even if NSW gives them a travel permit. They don’t get across the Qld border.
But it is targeted with a ridiculously broad brush.. Most of regional Vic has always been as Covid free as regional NSW, or indeed, regional Qld.
The border should be open cos the current situation is dumb.
Just like so many Sydneysiders have been doing for months. I’m going on holiday to northern NSW next week to stay with friends.
Theoretically I can take COVID19 up and infect them and everyone in the region.
The rules mean as border residents, anyone up there can travel to anywhere in QLD spreading COVID19 across the entire state.
It doesn’t make senseso you think it's dumb because you want to go for holiday in QLD?
that's pretty selfish.No, thats not what I said.
Anyone from anywhere in NSW can travel everywhere in NSW.
Residents from Byron Bay NSW north to the QLD border plus other NSW border communities to the west can enter QLD and travel anywhere in QLD.
Therefore it doesnt make sense for the border to be closed to all of NSW.The example I was giving was that a situation like that, in my opinion, does nothing to protect QLD from COVID19.
Throughout the year many Sydney folks have been taking holidays in northern NSW because the region has the best weather in the state.
Half of Sydney can walk around Byron Bay coughing and spluttering COVID 19 everywhere. Then all of Byron Bay can cross the border and are allowed to travel throughout the entire state of QLD.I think its dumb to close the border to the rest of NSW because I dont think it prevents COVID19 in QLD in the current situation. It was different when the border was closed to the whole of NSW but thats not the case now.
I am taking a holiday in my home state of NSW.
Regardless of that, whats wrong with anyone from NSW wanting to holiday in QLD and thinking the border restriction that prevents them from doing that is nonsensical.
Now I never said I wanted to take a holiday in QLD so settle down and take a deep breath. Its OK for people to have different opinions but its not OK to tear someone down because they think differently to you.
If you think the current border policy is a clever strategic heath plan to keep QLD free of COVID19 then lets discuss why you think it ensures the health of Queenslanders.
just want to clarify your earlier statement.
Currently there is no evidence of covid transmission in norther NSW and it's kind of compassion to open border to northern NSW because a lot of their daily activities are done in QLD part.
So you're saying QLD should be more cold hearted and shut the border to northern NSW as well?
Just remember that the border is closed because there is still small case of transmission in NSW, particularly sydney.
once NSW can take care those and be free of the transmission for how many days agree, the border will be re-opened.
simple as that.There's nothing that can guarantee 100& that the closed border will stop the infection completely.
It's more about balancing the risk.@Meho2026: Well no. If you pass it on to your friends who then pass it to someone in QLD compared to you directly transmitting it into QLD, there is one less degree of transmission in the first scenario. It means that there is more chance if you start showing symptoms that you'll notify your friend on the north coast before they show symptoms and they might not go into QLD.
Your example is comparable to saying we should open up all international travel because it can reach Australia eventually anyway. By making you jump through hoops movement is limited
@Bargain80: No he is saying there is bugger all risk and demonstrating if it was a real risk the virus would be effortlessly transmitted the way he described.
That it hasn’t is a tell the restrictions are a joke.
well, the QLD government should just block out the whole Byron Bay region because of lots of hipster from metro area living there, last time I heard that part of the country had the lowest rate of immunisation.
Well your logic is correct in a sense that people in Sydney can travel to Byron Bay but they can't travel to Qld. But those in Byron Bay can travel to Qld and hence can spread infection…. But that is the reason the border should be completely closed even for people in Byron Bay ! Hope Qld government read this and do complete closer of the border !
Really poor reading comprehension from you mate
Is she? They have stopped the virus and restricted your freedom. Doesn't sound like fantasy to me.
Curious though, are you in NSW or QLD?
Anyone is free to leave.
What restrictions? If you live in QLD, you can go out have food with mates without much "social distancing", restaurants are open and packed. I much prefer im in QLD right now …
What else freedom you want? host massive 100+ party or something.
You still can leave QLD, no ones is stopping you.
Isn't there more wealth in NSW? It really is at Qld's detriment that the borders remain closed.
Don't you worry about that …
That's funny you say that ! As it is NSW who bullies Qld to open the border so if there was any truth in your claim then NSW would not bother about opening border.
I am, like everyone else on here, an expert on the matter of virus transmission management.
But seriously, whatever I think is irrelevant. We elect politicians to run governments, and they employ thousands of public servants who (should) have expertise in their fields of management.
I'm inclined to leave it to them to manage the situation. And they will take the responsibility for those decisions.If I don't agree with how this (and a host of other matters) are handled, I can voice my opinion at the ballot box.
At the same time, I can act in a way that limits my risks, and the risks of those near to me. Others will do their own thing.
Dont come around here with your logic and common sense mate…
Best response on the thread!
You've obviously never never heard of Daniel Andrews then.
Are you one of the health experts?
No, i'm not a medical expert. Unfortunately, it seems like those running Victoria's Covid response aren't experts either.
If it's your belief that the Victorian government have handled the Covid pandemic well, then may I ask if you are a member of the Victorian government?
The Queensland electorate will be able to give their opinion on the 31st of October. What the rest of us think is, pretty, irrelevant.
Yeah nah, they'll just vote the libs back in (maybe) and they will continue the agenda. I have a list of questions I email back to every liberal politician who has spammed me recently. Not a single one has bothered to answer them leading to the above conclusion. Whoever gets in, us landless peasants are in for more pain and tyranny. Could hope for a hung parliament I guess but that's kinda like hoping to win the lotto.
What was your list of questions? Maybe that's the main reason you didn't get a response.
heh, yeah maybe. :)
Basically I asked what they would have done different from the 'opposition' this year.
I also pointed out some of their own official numbers and asked then asked them to justify the damage they have inflicted on us all.
I also asked what will be their 'covid 19' policy going forward from here.
I'm left to conclude it will be 'more of the same' or it will continue to follow the guidelines set out by the world economic forum in this book. https://tinyurl.com/y554e6br
@EightImmortals: I would hope, that like all the other State government's, they would have actually delivered a budget, unlike the current one, but I suspect that the response to Covid would have been very similar. The bigger difference would have been around messaging, they would be currently talking more about what they are doing to get the economy going, where as the current one are talking about keeping people safe (health) which is in reality is just both trying to stick to their perceived strengths.
But yes your questions seem very loaded, hence the no reply.
@tryagain: Yes fair point. Martin North did a breakdown of the budget here for those who are interested.
@EightImmortals: The inept and indecent Victorian Liberals don't like those types of questions either.
Victorian Liberals MPs have blocked several people who ask normal questions.
@arcticmonkey: Questions like, "who decided to use private security for quarantine" such simple questions, without any answers.
Im in Vic and 100% agree it should remain shut. This from someone who's mother in law passed away 2 weeks ago in Hervey Bay and we cant get up for the funeral.
Better a healthy intrastate economy than a severely restricted one.
What a tone deaf response.
Nope, having lived in Victoria a very accurate one.
Very tone deaf response indeed.
Are you an LNP member or Murdoch journalist by any chance?
Sorry that your family can't go to the funeral, this virus sucks. As a Victorian I strongly agree with border closures with measures in place for border towns. I'm surprised there are people who have seen what happened in Victoria and still want to increase risk in their state.
Support for border closures in QLD and WA and their premiers are even stronger than Victorians and their support for Dan and the restrictions in Victoria.
Most people don't want their state to end up like Victoria and can see how that would be considerably worse than having their borders closed. Those who feel for businesses should be supporting them. That's what my family up in QLD is doing, they're going out in their local area and traveling when they can and they're buying things where they go.
Is dumb situation I live in SA rang covid hotline said I need to visit family in regional Victoria for a few days…
Oh you can go to Victoria but you can't come back without approval???
I'm from SA just visiting Vic regional Vic.. nowhere near Melbourne.. weird
I live in Queensland, and I think we need to adapt to the government's recommendation of rolling hotspots.
We can't just keep opening our border and closing it back off constantly, and the fact of the matter is that people can get into Queensland if they want to. They could fly to NT or SA then fly into Queensland to avoid quarantine.
The outbreak we had in Queensland was also from girls who came back from Victoria, not from NSW. So far we have had no known infections directly as a result of NSW.
We need to move on, I understand wanting to protect vulnerable people, but Queensland is very tourist oriented. It's easy for these old politicians to close off the border to keep their position for another term, but it's the young people that will be paying off the debt as a result of the loss of tourism for the next 2-3 generations. If Queensland doesn't adapt to the federal government's recommendation, then we also can't start welcoming back in international tourists, like New Zealanders.
I am a undecided voter, but the problem is that I can't find the liberals' position on the border so it's very difficult to know how to vote in the upcoming election.
I thought all the New Zealanders were already in Qld?
Just half of them, the rest will have to sneak in through the NT…
C U in the N T!
Pacific pines bro
I think Upper Coomera is the suburb with the highest percentage of Kiwis in Australia, Pacific Pines is 2nd.
Deb Frecklington (LNP) would open the border without any hesitation. NSW numbers or community transmission data won't matter to her. Look for her on Facebook. She's been on about it forever
That's going to cost her votes.
She made an announcement in the last day or two saying as it stands, they will run with the health advice of 28 days with no transmission in NSW before opening.
Imagine if politicians or any of us for that matter only relied on medical advice for making decisions. There needs to be a bit more balance in decision making. Medical advice needs to play a large part though not the whole part.
Totally agree, Anastasia P has said she has deferred decisions in the border to the chief health officer. But she isn't an elected official. It's the premiers job to take the advice of all experts and then make a decision on the big picture (including economic etc). She may well still choose to shut the border, but that needs to be the premier's decision, and she needs to stand by it.
Semantics really, she’s deferring to the CMO until she doesn’t. Usual politics.
Wut? I thought they were opening it up again soon?