When buying a mid-size SUV (the likes of the RAV4, CR-V, X-Trail etc..), is buying the AWD important if the car is likely going to be driven under normal conditions (shops, school, occasional road trip to regional areas etc.), or would 2WD suffice?
I know that with larger cars such as the Kluger AWD is more important than not, but if its a mid-size SUV is it something to consider, and is it worth it, or is it irrelevant under standard driving conditions?
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new RAV-4 with hybrid engine
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Been driving a 2wd Kluger for the past 8+ years and never regretted not getting the awd version once.
It was cheaper to purchase, service and uses a lot less fuel. Handles very well.
This must have awd is just a craze, there is no benefit.
If you plan to have the car for 10 yrs plus then consider the current run out Klugers as they are amazing value. Definitely a big improvement on any of the ones you have listed. Fuel consumption would be similar but with much more power an not a 4 cyl straining its guts out to get the job done through a weak CVT transmission.
Can you quantify what "a lot less fuel" is?
The facts are:
3.5L AWD 9.5lphk combined vs
3.5L 2WD 9.1lphk combined.
You'd barely notice a difference. If you really cared about fuel economy youd be buying a different car entirely. How much does it cost to service the other diff? Next to nothing.
This seems to be a common trope on the internet but the facts are that the non drive wheels are already turning, there is a tiny bit of resistance from the diff and the extra weight (normally only 50kg or so).
AWD cars also depreciate a lot less too IMO.
Manufacturer claimed economy is never real economy.
never regretted not getting the awd version once
I guess the only reason you may have is if you needed the extra traction at some point.
If you don't have AWD to pick up the kids from school on a bitumen road, you will surely lose control and crash into a tree. Prior to having AWD cars, you had a 50/50 chance of getting home alive every time you went for a drive. Truly terrible times they were.
+1 Also watch out for other road users in horse and carts. The plague breaks out from time to time also.
+1. Also watch out for cars with AEB, adaptive cruise and lane keeper assist. The plague has broken out.
Lane keeper assist
New scomo program is it?
Don't waste your money on AWD unless you plan yearly trips to the snow and/or regular trips driving on to the beach. They are heavier because of the AWD setup, use more fuel and often cost more to service.
Look at an Outlander ES ADAS if you are going for mid size. You'll likely get a good deal on one and they are super reliable cars otherwise if you are happy to spend an extra $8-10k, see if you can snag a run-out V6 Sorrento or Kluger.
The sad thing is that most of the AWD "on demand" setups will be basically useless on the beach. Will be bellied out before the rear wheels cut in. Pretty sure they banned on demand awds from Frasier for this reason.
I am happy to be corrected but I don't think AWD is a big advantage in the snow. Some people get think AWD is the same as 4WD, but it is not.
Even amongst AWD there is a huge amount of variation. Most are just FWD with RWD assist if the computer will let you. Most of these systems overheat very quickly (X-trail to Focus RS - they're all crap off made roads). Subaru and a few others are proper AWD and arent useless.
Big advantage is you don't have to fit chains! At least in NSW. If you have decent tyres an AWD is fine on the sealed roads but you'll struggle on the ungraded tracks to the camp grounds.
Do you need a SUV?
There are plenty of 'normal' cars that would be cheaper for 'standard driving conditions'.
+1
AWD.
Uphill off the traffic lights in the rain…
Friends "unpaved" driveway…
gotta be able to deal with shopping centre speedbumps
Have you need the car parks at the soccer fields? Some don't even have grass on them!
I don't get that reference :(
Not really a meme, but a jab at most of the people who come here asking about buying an AWD/4WD and their biggest example of the requirement is for when they visit their friend who lives in an outer suburb that has something as trivial as an unpaved driveway…
@pegaxs: Maybe it is a mile long driveway with deep ruts.
Every drive to the mail box is an adventure. (That requires remote reservoirs shocks.)
We recently drove on wet, dirt roads in our 2018 2WD CR-V, was fine. Only a bit of wheel spin when trying to start up again after we pulled over to the side of the road a few times, but didn't get bogged…not sure if luck or skill…gonna say luck given my lack of experience?
I forgot to save the dashcam footage :(
If you don't know why you succeeded, it is luck.
I knew enough not to floor it trying to get out, I should get some points for that?
Half a point. I differ on that philosophy.
I floor it til I dig into clay then bam, traction into clay and I get out. I call it the pedal to the metal method. Works 40% of the time, all the time.
is buying the AWD important if the car is likely going to be driven under normal conditions (shops, school, occasional road trip to regional areas etc.), or would 2WD suffice?
A 2WD will more than suffice for that sort of usage. For your use cases the 2WD for general suburban and metro and city driving as it is less heavy, uses less petrol and is cheaper. Unless you going Off Roading a lot in the bush or will be in the Alpine/Snow regions of Victoria or NSW it does not make much sense for a 4WD/AWD drive if most of the driving is on sealed suburban or metro roads. That extra traction doesn't mean it is necessarily "safer" when doing emergency maneuvers.
I just like the way an AWD handles.
Firstly, the extra weight isn't entirely bad. It does make the F-R weight bias better.
Second, accelerating out of a turn is a LOT more forgiving.
For an experienced driver, on touring drives, being able to apply throttle through a bend on an AWD is much safer than a 2WD coasting through the same.
There are pros and cons but the pros of an AWD doesn't come automatically with buying an AWD. One actually needs to know how to utilise the AWD.
No different to someone buying a PT-4WD. There's no advantage if one doesn't know how to engage the 4WD.
I just like the way an AWD handles.
Thats the part thats so hard to explain.
My Forester handles sooooo much better than any FWD vehicle i've ever driven, even though its higher. It's almost impossible to break traction, with just normal tyres. I hate driving little FWD cars because they give you so little confidence, especially in the wet.
It's easy to explain but the explanation requires further explanation for many.
FWD understeers under power. Done.
If live out the country and venture on dirt roads then awd would be the choice
My driveway is little steep and it is dirt. Awd suv no problems. 2wd suv can’t make it.
But front wheel and rear wheel drive car can.
To me, the whole concept of an SUV is meant to be some kind of lifestyle vehicle that allows you to do things that regular cars can't. So it makes sense that suvs have awd otherwise they're really just a regular car with a bit more height and typically worse handling.
I currently drive an awd suv, and while it might be a placebo effect, it does feel more "sure-footed" to me.
To me, it's a minivan for people who should buy a minivan but doesn't want something called a minivan but is practically a minivan, yet less practical than an actual minivan.
Most SUVs are only 5 seats. Mini van room for at least 6 else it is just a high roof sedan.
Exactly.
The minivan has 1 extra seat. It's more practical.
SUVs are just high roof sedans. The new crossover SUVs quite literally take the sedans/hatch and stretch it upwards.
I suppose it has more clearance for urban offroading.
I suppose it has more clearance for urban offroading.
You mean running over the curb (onto nature strip) trying to park.
@Cliche Guevara: How the hell else are we meant to park if not that way?
I think he has done well considering.
(Solid air time).
Unless a vehicle is full time AWD, AWD should only ever automatically engage when you need it, which is never. Unless you have something like an ST focus which engages AWD when you accelerate hard to reduce wheel spin. Because AWD can only help you when accelerating.
User selectable 4x4's (most 4x4 utes, cheaper 4x4 wagons) ask for users to only engage 4x4 on loose surfaces like gravel or grass.
Yeah, utes, those light reared, rear wheel drive vehicles that tradies drive. Used to be notorious for killing tradies because the rear wheel would loose traction. They are still all RWD on the road, but they now all have traction control and stability management. Those are the technologies you need and almost every new car has them.
Used to be notorious for killing tradies because the rear wheel would loose traction… now all have traction control and stability management.
It's actually the airbags. Many of the fleet level utes do not have traction control or stability management. Those only very recently became standard inclusions (on the more expensive makes.)
If you're looking back even further (about 20 years ago), then it is the transition from live to IFS which significantly reduces body roll.
The federal government mandated electronic stability control on light commercial vehicles starting in 2017. OH&S requires employers to supply ANCAP 5 star cars (Dominoes is going to get smashed when one of their drivers die in a bomb or on one of their bikes).
The federal government mandated electronic stability control on light commercial vehicles starting in 2017
Yes. Recent history but the number of light truck fatalities dropped significantly much earlier than 2017.
If you have driven live front axle ute, it'll make a lot of sense why the numbers fell after the change to IFS, and the addition of airbags.
@[Deactivated]: I am not that old :p
I am sure they did.
But 5 stars for workers and ESM was mandated because employees were still dying.
@This Guy: Some of those ute accidents are going to still cause fatalities even if they had a 25 star ANCAP.
This is not a fatality nor is it a work accident, nor a ute. Okay it is completely unrelated but it's a good video of shit going wrong where no amount of electronic safety was going to help.
I could not find the one where a 20 storey truck (okay, maybe 5 storey but still…) ran over a ute. The driver narrowly escaped by jumping out. That one was a work accident. Pants brownie for sure.
Modern Utes are actually pretty darn safe already, even without the electronic safety muhbobs. Those getting killed are doing something incredibly stupid. Probably after manually disabling the electronic bobs.
Those getting killed are doing something incredibly stupid
I was going to say the same but too polite to. Some of these trades people can't get two pieces of wood to intersect properly you'd wonder why they consider driving.
@netjock: A lot of them are okay driving. The problem is usually either.
It's the weekend and those young apprentices need to show their mate's what that 10 year old 4x2 can he with a new exhaust.
Save a few trips, load the rear up 4x beyond GVM with weight spilling out the sides.
@[Deactivated]: I know you have no faith in our government, but when people die from dump truck crushes they change mine legislation, not OH&S and ADR.
It might just be I am a little baby who grew up driving with traction control (I didn't), but rear wheel drive utes with out traction control are very easy to drive dangerously switching from a car. The combination of a light rear, a higher center of gravity and rear wheel drive (my cars have all been FWD, read: cheap) make them easy to drive stupidly with out ESM.
I have driven most of the current crop of utes. They still suck. They are more top heavy. And now ute's are family vehicles some have stupidly soft suspension and suck even more. The only modern ute's I would be comfortable driving like a car without aides would be a few of the low rider models and the low trim dmax's (LS-M IIRC). The other's I would be worried about rolling (the Raptor on paper looks fine, but I have only driven every other trim Ranger…).
I know you have no faith in
ourany government…
FTFY
I am not in disagreement that ESC and all the doodads of modern vehicles are good, I was just pointing out that it wasn't these technologies that reduced the ute fatalities significantly. The great shift came from the overhaul of the light truck design.
Also, I am not in favour of government mandating anything. They tend to stuff things up further. The cost of anything mandatory goes up.
Don’t buy and AWD unless you regularly drive on dirt or visit the snow
Don’t buy a part time AWD. They virtually never engage and modern traction control aids make them virtually useless.
I've had 3 AWD Subarus and 6+ FWD cars and every time I have to take off from a T-intersection on a wet day I regret not having AWD. There's something about the fact that one axle is sitting back drinking mai tais and the other is providing drive, steering and 70% of braking that does upset the balance of the car at times.
John Cadogan on YT does a decent presentation on the AWD/FWD dilemma. It's not too bad once you filter out all the crap he does to attract bogans and remember that he is a car broker and gets a bigger commission if he can upsell.
I've had 3 AWD Subarus and 6+ FWD cars and every time I have to take off from a T-intersection on a wet day I regret not having AWD.
Makes you wonder how humans have survived for so long before AWD.
it's not survival, it's just that extra bit of helpfulness. Like having a limited slip diff instead of an open diff or Michelin tyres instead of LingLongs.
I've had a lot of cars (50+) both personal and company drives and driven over 1.25 million kms I know what works for me & what doesn't.
In all the AWD cars (I forgot about the 2x Captivas, the Outlander, the V6 Passat 4 motion and a couple of others) if it was wet you didn't have to wonder if the wheels would spin or not due to an oil patch or gravel. It was the same when we had a succesion of V6 Commodores with open diffs in the inner city. You'd pull out from a T into a gap and the inside wheel would lift and they'd spin the tyre.
Why would you want a 4x4 for typical suburban usage?
Even a mid-size may prove to be too big for you to handle properly.
I have lost count on how many women have asked me to park their oversized 4x4 bc they simply can not drive the things.
OP is talking about AWD and 2WD SUVs. What does it even have to do with 4x4s?
Lots of people can’t tell the difference. A land cruiser is as much an SUV as an ASX
I have lost count on how many women have asked me to park their oversized 4x4 bc they simply can not drive the things.
Why do you put yourself into those situations, look busy mate.
Those Subaru Foresters and CRVs are such pesky things to fit into a spot
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/565910