Master of Cybersecurity - Charles Sturt University

L[Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 16:25

So i have been fortunate that i have managed to go through my career without the need for a degree. I was lucky enough to have been hired by one of the worlds top consulting firms, worked with a whole lot of big clients and travelled a lot. It's gotten to the point where I am not even asked about the lack of a degree on my resume. Personally though, it bothers me. I have a whole bunch of certifications in my industry…but just no formal degree. I recently got a significant bonus and thought i should probably enrol for a master in cybersecurity from Charles Sturt university. The university has told me that given my certifications and work experience, i can get 50% of the course on credit, meaning that I only have to do 6 subjects that i think i can complete within a year to get my masters degree. These 6 subjects will cost me 21k. A part of me thinks i should do this just to scratch the itch. I dont quite think i will learn anything new looking at the course content, but at least i will have my degree. A part of me thinks i can better use that money to do specific certifications (many of them) that can definitely benefit me. However, this means that the "chip on my shoulder" will remain and I will always feel a bit awkward when people talk about university etc. A part of me thinks that the lack of degree may hinder me from progressing in the future….but thus far, it hasnt and I am on par or even better than my peers because of the excellent experience i have from many different top tier companies.

What are your thoughts on this? Oh, i discounted other universities that seem to have the same degree with better content because they wouldnt give me as much credit so they end up significantly more expensive e.g. 30-45k compared to the 21k.

Just looking for some guidance or outside perspective.

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Comments

  • Tech5 on 15/09/2020 - 16:37
    +1

    If you got the money, do what makes you happy

  • Bonbi on 15/09/2020 - 16:39
    +7

    get your workplace to pay for it

    • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:37

      not an option unfortunately.

      • Big Trev on 15/09/2020 - 18:49

        I have to say, even when it has been an option for me I prefer to self-fund my education. I prefer to not have that set of golden handcuffs there to make me feel guilty if I want to change organisations.

        As long as it relates to your current work, it should be tax-deductible as well.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 19:00

          This is a very good point. I hadnt thought about the tax bit. Thanks!

  • GG57 on 15/09/2020 - 16:44
    +5

    In my view, and based on your comments, I wouldn't bother with a degree just for the sake of having one. You appear to be qualified for your career.

    There was an article recently that discounted the value of a degree versus focused accreditation courses (sorry, can't find it just now), but obviously the universities would prefer that people undertake degrees for the $$$$.

    • TEER3X on 15/09/2020 - 19:52

      agree with the above. a degree ages anyway, one that you got 10 years ago doesn't real have any value.

      if you want to do it to get a particular role, then go for it. when i was working in the corporate world, the senior management roles where mostly given to those that had a masters degree.

      personally i'd rather have that $21k in my pocket, plus all that time. but that's me, do what makes you happy. there's nothing wrong with getting your masters and not making any use of it. it's better to have loved than not at all, or something like that.

      • p1 ama on 15/09/2020 - 21:26

        agree with the above. a degree ages anyway, one that you got 10 years ago doesn't real have any value.

        That's a completely non-sensical argument. Food that you bought 10 years ago doesn't have any real value either, does that mean you shouldn't have eaten 10 years ago?

        I don't doubt that there are ways to getting into very good career paths without a degree, but I would say that getting a degree is usually the safest and easiest way of getting yourself into a good career. That's not to mention all of the ancillary benefits of getting a degree outside of the monetary and practical value.

        • TEER3X on 15/09/2020 - 21:31
          +1

          Did you read the original post, because it looks like you're responding to my comment without the right context in mind?

  • sodacake01 on 15/09/2020 - 16:51
    +2

    And this ladies and gentlemen is what is wrong with the Australian education system. Having spent four years and covering over 80 subjects to get my degree in engineering in Europe (free third level education), this looks like just qualifications for sale, $21K….. what a joke.

    If it leads to higher paid roles in large organisations who expect qualifications then it is a good return on investment, fair play to you for continuing to develop your knowledge and education, I am sorry it is so expensive.

    • Donaldhump on 15/09/2020 - 18:02
      +1

      Agree, but no point having a master in something and knowing sfa about it, so sure it is pointless unless the experience is cyber security, but then I ask why bother.

      • Donaldhump on 15/09/2020 - 22:16

        Google it , consider it research practice

  • wallet72 on 15/09/2020 - 17:06

    CSU offers a pretty good option, I'd have a look at Edith Cowan University as well, they offer a Masters in Cyber security as well - it used to be called 'Information Security and Intelligence' when I did it :)

    I really flipped a coin to decide between the two schools, in the end I just looked at the subjects and it was a close call to pick ECU

    • Baa on 15/09/2020 - 17:28

      I am doing the ECU masters currently, similar situation having no formal qualifications and always felt that itch.

      The difference is I work in a different IT space, so while no course credits I was able to get in via experience (keeping in mind Uni's are businesses too so I think they would have justified my way in anyway). I don't think it will make any immediate impact on my career situation, but hopefully provide some career pathways in the future.

      I think good on you, many of the people I have run into doing the same masters are in a very similar situations.

      • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:39

        how has your experience been? How are you getting by and what amount of time commitment is it?

  • yk300 on 15/09/2020 - 17:56

    sounds like you won't gain much in terms of career/money and you already know it.
    Nothing wrong with an educational pursue, even though education is most certainly a (big) business here.

    Who knows… maybe you'll find an interest in academia and advance the field from a different angle.

  • garetz on 15/09/2020 - 17:58

    If you have the time to do it atm, use that time to get your masters, it will benefit you in the future, it will probably pay for itself many fold, you could be losing out on pay bumps without the degree.

  • Donaldhump on 15/09/2020 - 18:00

    Usq commonwealth supported for this course
    Will cost a lot less

    • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:36

      can you tell me more about this? i selected full fee paying.

  • megaalc on 15/09/2020 - 18:04
    +1

    have you got cissp ?

    • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:36

      yes, and 2 other concentrations of CISSP/

  • gmail92 on 15/09/2020 - 18:05
    -5

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  • Quantumcat on 15/09/2020 - 18:08
    +1

    Definitely do it! Oh my god I would love to do that I am so jealous. Even if you know most stuff from working it is worth getting the academic perspective on some subjects - there could be a way of approaching things that you wouldn't have come across or you may see a way some things are connected that you didn't see before. You might also make some connections that will be good for your career as well as the piece of paper.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:37

      Good point. THanks!

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 15/09/2020 - 18:43

    I am currently doing it at CSU.

    Not worth the money. Quality is hit-and-miss, mostly miss and it's more of a factory than a learning experience.

  • Gristy on 15/09/2020 - 18:46
    +4

    most of the charles sturt topics are very very bad, not worth $100 or your time.

    feel free to join the student discord to find out more we can tell you what to avoid. https://discord.gg/WsZbqT

  • nomoneynoproblems on 15/09/2020 - 20:34

    Why not just do a bachelors instead of a masters? Surely that will save you coin.

  • Clear on 15/09/2020 - 21:20

    In my experience working for a national MSP we value the certifications a lot more than the university degrees. Most of our best people haven't been to university but have the experience and that's the most valuable part.

    GradCerts are always another option though. I find that a lot of them go into more specalised areas than Masters degrees and are still quite valuable. Having been to university prior, right now I'm looking to do one Digital Health/Health Informatics as it's more relevant to my field of IT.

  • p1 ama on 15/09/2020 - 21:23
    +9

    I'm an academic, I teach into degrees ranging from undergraduate level to master's and post-graduate level.

    I would say be very aware and very careful in this case. Let me explain why:

    1) In general, undergraduate degrees in Australia are quite good, particularly from the top universities. They're quite rigorous and comparable to undergraduate degrees I've seen elsewhere in my experience of visiting other universities around the world. The quality of students in undergraduate programs are largely quite high and the academic integrity required to obtain an undergraduate degree is also quite stringent.

    This isn't to say that there aren't problems with higher education in Australia, that's a different issue and I'm not trying to provide commentary on that, just that an undergraduate degree is likely what you would expect and will be recognised by most employers as being appropriate qualifications.

    2) Master's degrees on the other hand, they're completely and utterly "qualifications for sale". Most master's degrees, even at the top universities, are designed to cater to international student markets and have extremely low academic standards. Many of them have over 90% enrolments being international. They're designed for maximum throughout (maximum students in, maximum students out) to generate revenue. The level of academic ability required to obtain a master's degree is quite low and personally I would not get a master's degree of this calibre myself. That's not to say that there aren't good master's degrees, but generally any master's degree which practically has no undergraduate requirement is just a program to get students through the door.

    There are plenty of problems in many of these master's degrees, least of which is that they are designed to just get students through the door and provide very little academic value. If that's what you are after - just paying to get a qualification with relatively little work and resistance, then know that's what you're signing up for. However, if you actually want to get something out of your degree, I would stay pretty far away. If you want a degree, I'd rather begin with an undergraduate degree, as opposed to a master's degree which is just collecting your money to give you a piece of paper. That's my 2c.

    • Tomhaigh1 on 15/09/2020 - 21:36
      +1

      Thats an interesting perspective. I already had bachelor's but was planning to do masters in computer science, now having second thoughts.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2020 - 07:37

      Thanks for this perspective. The problem is that i barely see any value in pursuing a bachelors given the practical work experience i have obtained over my 16 year career thus far. This is true for a bachelors in my field. When i look at the course content, im fairly comfortable with at least 70% of it so in my view, that would be a huge waste. What are your thoughts on this?

      • emptypocket on 16/09/2020 - 09:20
        +1

        Masters doesn't necessarily mean more advanced learning than bachelor's.

        It can be, but not always. So worth keeping that in mind.

        From what you've mentioned thus far, the Masters doesn't really sound like it'll add much value given experience is king and you seem to have that in spades. Also, it doesn't sound like you'd be learning anything new especially since you're getting so many credits.

        Also, if you really wanted it for the piece of paper or the novelty, I'd consider getting that piece of paper from a more reputable uni if you're willing to dosh out that much cash on it. Not to say that there's anything wrong with CSU but from what it sounds like, I imagine you'd be able to get admitted into a top tier uni pretty easily.

      • p1 ama on 16/09/2020 - 15:18
        +2

        Basically I agree with what emptypocket is saying in the previous post. In any case, it depends on what you're looking for. A common misconception is that a university degree is just meant to teach you skills which you can then put to work. That's not the case, nor should it be. There's a difference between training and education - universities do not provide vocational training, they provide an education, which is more than just employable skills.

        University degrees are not vocational in nature, that's what makes them different from industry certifications or vocational education (e.g. a degree from TAFE). Obtaining a university degree in a particular field (let's say computer science) is broadly meant to give you a holistic and broad knowledge about the field from where you can begin upskilling through work and industry certifications, i.e. "learning on the job". It's also a place for young people to develop soft skills and emotional maturity amongst other things. FWIW, it's probably good to remember that university is broadly targeted towards people from 18 - 23, with master's degrees usually targeting people around 30 (say MBA programs). I would say it's difficult to enjoy university as a social/developmental experience if you stray too far away from the target demographic.

        So if you're trying to enrol in a degree to "learn some new skills", I don't think that this will be the most efficient or effective way of doing that. You're better off doing courses on whatever it is that you're trying to learn specifically.

        On the other hand, if your aim is not necessarily to learn, but to simply get a qualification or certificate so you can put it on your CV and appear more attractive to potential employers, then yes, a master's degree at a university will probably allow you to do that. However, again, I doubt that you would learn much, as you're probably already pointing out. You can decide for yourself if it's worth the $21,000 or however much you have to pay, but you could easily make that back in less than a year if the degree leads to that elusive job that you've been after.

        Whether you should do an undegraduate degree or not really comes down to whether you would appreciate having that basic knowledge. For example, if you work cybersecurity, that is an extremely niche field, but it's IT related. Are you interested in learning programming, algorithms, data structures, neural networks…etc.? If so, do an undergrad degree in computer science. It may not be related to your day to day work, but that's not what it's meant to be for. It will probably help in terms of understanding more about the related fields in which you work, for example.

        FWIW, my take on it is this:

        1) If you want to upskill, best to do industry certifications or vocational courses
        2) If you want to move into a new area unrelated to your own, then best to do an undergraduate degree
        3) If you want a piece of paper to help you get a better job, then best to do a short master's degree which will be expensive, but little work

        • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2020 - 17:13
          +2

          Thank you for the thorough posts p1. I really appreciate it. I have decided not to go ahead with the masters at CSU. I will use the money to get more focused professional certifications that get me skills applicable to my job or that will make me a well rounded professional. There is so much i can do with half of that. Thank you very much.

  • Candour on 16/09/2020 - 12:54

    check with the professional bodies relevant and see if their quals are better than a degree. got a prof dip in accounting and it never helped my career. was already an accountant then. networking in the professional body groups would have paid better dividends.

  • kanad on 17/09/2020 - 11:51

    You know Troy Hunt, renowned cyber security expert and the creator of https://haveibeenpwned.com?
    Well he dropped out of Uni in 1997.
    So relax, you are right up there.

  • henryph-am on 17/09/2020 - 14:56

    CSec Consultant here, I do believe in our profession, certificates and experiences are better than a uni degree. Even a TAFE Certificate is more than enough. Actually, my managers have a TAFE degree and a bunch of certs, and they are much more respected and better paid than a degree carrier like me lol.

    Also, a Master degree is almost worthless in Australia, so it is not a wise investment. I met numerous academics and they always complain about how they have to dumb down contents for Master Students. There of course will be exceptional students, but on average Master students are worse because (1) Low entry Bar, (2) Their previous qualifications are unlikely to be related to the course, (3) the program was designed to cover breadth, not depth.

    Otherwise, if you live in VIC and craving to learn, how about doing a CertIV for free?

    • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2020 - 18:46

      Yeah, I’ll do cert IV for free. I also understand that the govt may be doing something soon to encourage people to enter the field. So may benefit from that too.

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