End of Lease Renewal - What Are My Rights?

[Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:05
Last edited 05/09/2020 - 10:33 by 1 other user

We're currently on a 12 month lease that ends on the 1st of November. The REA is pushing us for a renewal of a 12 month lease (possibly 6) although we're currently in the process of looking for a house to buy and don't want to be tied down to pay 12 months worth of rent. I asked the REA about a periodic lease agreement and he said "No, that's not possible".

Is what he's saying true? What are my rights here? I'm in WA.

Note: I understand that the owner wants the security of knowing they're going to have tents for the next X months and having a period lease doesn't guarantee that. But what difference does it make? In the end, they're still going to need to look for tenants whether it's as soon as our lease finishes, or 3 months into our periodic agreement.

Home & Garden

Comments

    • robbyjones on 04/09/2020 - 19:09
      +2

      Did you have a hard week or something? A bit harsh don't you think.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:12
        +3

        Either a landlord or he didn't make budget last month at the car yard he works at.

        • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:15
          -2

          Tenant

          And smashed target :)

          Sorry, should I have sugar coated it?

      • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:13

        Harsh lol no are you new to the internet? No need to beat around the bush

      • Ocker on 04/09/2020 - 19:41
        +1

        Methinks car sales are crap and OP is venting his/her frustration

    • Mechz on 04/09/2020 - 19:14

      I think you'll find yourself very incorrect.

      • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:17
        -1

        What, because at the end of a lease it rolls onto periodic? That's a given, however the REA doesn't have to let the lease lapse, they can just give OP notice and end the lease at the time it's due to expire. They're still within notice period to do that.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:18
          +6

          So then you're wrong, we don't HAVE to gtfo if we don't sign a lease. We only gtfo if they give us a notice to vacate.

          • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:19
            +1

            @[Deactivated]:

            We only gtfo if they give us a notice to vacate.

            And you'd want to chance being given 30 days notice of that and finding a new home, and packing the current one, then cleaning it, in 30 days?

            Have fun with that :)

            • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:23

              @spackbace: 30 days is plenty of time to move out 2 adults, clean, and hire pest control to do their thing.

              From my other comment though.

              We don't care if they kick us out as we can move in with friends/parents so it's a risk we're willing to take.

    • brendanm on 04/09/2020 - 20:15
      +5

      Why is this getting negged? It's accurate and honest. Someone is renting you something, you don't get to dictate the terms.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 22:25
        +1

        Why is this getting negged?

        Lots of perpetual renters.

      • whooah1979 on 05/09/2020 - 14:05
        +1

        It must be all the snow ❄️ in WA coming out to play.

  • Mechz on 04/09/2020 - 19:12
    +12

    You don't have to sign anything, there is a month to month provision in your initial lease that all agreements carry over once the initial term expires.

    Your only risk is them advertising the place to rent to someone else if you don't sign which is unlikely in this market. You'll probably find they'll forget about you after you stop responding to their demands to sign.

    This all comes under the caveat that you are a good tenant who doesn't make a fuss and is always on time with rent.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:14
      +1

      I'm an idiot, why is reading the initial lease not the first thing that came to mind…

      We don't care if they kick us out as we can move in with friends/parents so it's a risk we're willing to take.

      • Mechz on 04/09/2020 - 19:15
        +3

        Well I'd just be ignoring their requests.

      • conan2000 on 04/09/2020 - 22:57

        Yeah, you just don't sign any offered lease extension and you'll just default to a month-to-month. Very unlikely you'd get kicked out I'd imagine, better to have someone on a month-to-month than the hassle of finding new tenants.

    • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:14
      -8

      You don't have to sign anything, there is a month to month provision in your initial lease that all agreements carry over once the initial term expires.

      Sounds like they've given OP notice of intention already. Given the lease expires in just under 2 months, they have time (and the right) to just end the lease and kick OP out

      • Mechz on 04/09/2020 - 19:16
        +5

        It really doesn't sound like anything of the sort. I'd hate for you to be in charge of any sort of legal paperwork.

        • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:18
          +5

          But you'd rather stay quiet and expect the REA to just not notice it expiring…? After OP has already brought it to their attention?

          I'd rather focus on the contract than OP signed, and trusting the REA to have some sense of professionalism and knew it was expiring than just "keeping quiet"

        • Hardlyworkin on 04/09/2020 - 20:01
          -1

          I think he might be off his meds.

  • robbyjones on 04/09/2020 - 19:13

    You have a couple of months before your lease ends, there is no need to make a decision right away, just tell the Agent that you haven't decided yet and you will let them know closer to the end of the lease. If the Lessor wants to terminate the lease they need to give you a minimum of 30 days notice so you have until October 1.

  • jm7 on 04/09/2020 - 19:15
    +1

    You can stay month-by-month but be aware if they terminate after 2 November for no reason you would have 60 days to vacate (or 30 days to vacate if between 2 October and 1 November) (however, I highly doubt they would kick you out in the current climate if you are looking after the property and paying rent on time). We have been in a similar situation and just kept telling the RE Agent we needed time to think about it, talk to each other, etc and she eventually gave up trying to get us to sign for another 12 months.

  • FoxJump on 04/09/2020 - 19:22
    +2

    My landlord said the same … I said nup not signing. He then said it was because LL insurance doesn't cover periodic leases.

    I said - not my problem. I'm allowed to be in a periodic lease and that's what I want.

    We then found a place for ourselves a few months later and left when we were ready

    LL has to give you like 3 months notice or so to kick you out on periodic unless they kick you out at the end of your fixed term lease

    • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:24

      Periodic is 60 days notice :)

      • FoxJump on 04/09/2020 - 19:47

        Oops. Okay still more than the tiny amount they have to give otherwise

    • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:24
      +2

      He said the EXACT same thing to me RE: LL insurance

      In WA, I think you only need 21 or 30 days to kick tenant out. Correct me if I'm wrong.

      • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:42
        +4

        Once you're on periodic, it's 60 days

        You can give 30, they have to give 60

      • FoxJump on 04/09/2020 - 19:48

        I pointed to him to a few insurance companies that cover periodic and said, plenty of products exist, not my problem

      • FoxJump on 04/09/2020 - 19:51

        Also prop manager charges a fee to sign you up another year so it's his benefit to sign you up.

        In my case they offered to sign me up for another year too late by being too close to the end to give notice so ha on them

    • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 20:23
      +2

      I'm allowed to be in a periodic lease

      Only if the LL agrees to it.

      • FoxJump on 04/09/2020 - 20:44
        +1

        The LL can prevent you only by giving you notice to vacate at the end of the lease with the required notice period.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 21:37

          I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word "allowed". You are only "allowed" to be on a periodic lease with the tacit approval of your LL.

          • FoxJump on 05/09/2020 - 09:54

            @[Deactivated]: Ooh I learnt a new word today. Thank you

            Tacit.

          • Rel63 on 05/09/2020 - 12:09

            @[Deactivated]: At least in QLD so not sure about WA but a lease automatically converts to month to month (periodic) if no new lease is signed, no approval is required.
            The only way as stated above to end occupancy is to issue a notice to vacate at the end of lease with 30 days notice or 60 days if lease already expired.

            • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2020 - 21:20

              @Rel63: tacit (adj) : understood or implied without being stated

              The LL not issuing a notice to vacate prior to the end of the fixed term lease is their tacit agreement that the tenant may stay another 30 days and another 30 days and so on until either party decide they 've had enough.

  • Meho2026 on 04/09/2020 - 19:23
    +3

    The difference is if they give you 30 days notice you have to leave at the end of the 12 month term and then they have a good chance of getting a new tenant in before Christmas.

    Lets say they leave things, let the fixed term expire so youre on a periodic lease, then you decide to give you give notice to leave in December. That means realistically they wont get another tenant in until February because hardly anyone looks to move over Christmas and New Year plus because of the holidays the REA is basically closed for 2 weeks.

    It might be better to ask if you can sign a 3 month extension or stall them until the 30 day notice period passes to end the tenancy on the lease expiry.

    • Quantumcat on 05/09/2020 - 07:06
      +1

      This is the thing! The landlord can't risk the property being empty over Christmas. You should try asking if you can sign just a 3 month extension. It is always easier to rent stuff in January-February.

  • Seraphin7 on 04/09/2020 - 19:24
    +4

    Your "rights" are to take it, or leave it.

    You can attempt to negotiate something that is more to your liking, but the above are your rights.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:26
      +1

      You clearly haven't read the comments which say otherwise.

      • Seraphin7 on 04/09/2020 - 19:31
        +15

        I have read the comments, and they are all chatter. Maybe you need to understand the definition of rights.

        Your rights are to take what is being offered to you, or not.

        If you take the first, you have the right to occupy the property for the term of the new lease.

        If you take the second, you have the right to occupy the property for as long as the landlord allows you to, noting that subject to notice periods that could end at any time.

        These are your rights.

        Beyond the above, you can attempt to negotiate something else, but until that negotiation reaches a conclusion (which may convey a new set of rights to you), you're only options are sign the new lease, or be ready to move out when the current one expires.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:33

          Sorry, yes. I agree with you. I was more trying to figure out whether I have the right to not sign a new agreement and roll into a periodic lease IF the landlord doesn't decide to vacate us before that. Hope that makes sense.

        • spackbace on 04/09/2020 - 19:43
          +4

          Thankyou for summarising my thoughts.

          Shame that others mistook the difference between OP asking about their rights and what might happen, even though it's in the title lol

  • Summoner on 04/09/2020 - 19:28

    If you do not sign a new agreement, the landlord will have to decide if he wants to enter a periodic lease or look for a new tenant.
    If the landlords decides to look for a new tenant, the property will soon be advertised, and their agent will start to arrange an inspection until they find a new tenant. This will be your major inconvenience.
    When they find a tenant that wishes to move in after your lease expiry date, they will send you a notice to end the tenancy. That's when you have to move out.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 19:42
    +1

    It sounds like the PM is telling you:

    We are offering you a 6/12 month lease or "your contract is up, here's a notice to vacate".

    Pick one.

    The owner is not interested in doing a periodic lease. Maybe they don't want to try getting tenants during the holiday period. Maybe they don't want to deal with ongoing leases. Maybe they are religiously against flexibility.

    It's their choice how the want the property managed.

    • Switchblade88 on 04/09/2020 - 23:19
      +1

      To rephrase your 'choice':

      "If you haven't signed our 12 month contract by the 1st October, we intend to issue you a notice to vacate."

      This is really what the OP is being offered. So therefore the OP's best solution is to simply DO NOTHING until after the 2nd Oct, when the landlord's time period has passed, which will provide the answer to his query.

      Remember, the agent may be misrepresenting the landlord's actual intentions or wishes. Make no assumptions that either of those parties is communicating what they will actually do on any given date. Call their bluff, make them choose what they will do. If nothing happens, then the OP is in a periodic lease exactly as they want. If the OP is given a notice to vacate, then you can fight it (play the COVID card??) or accept it. Either way they're not committed for 12 months they don't want.

  • Jules855 on 04/09/2020 - 19:49
    +1

    The WA rental market is strong at the moment, if I was your landlord I would also want to lock something in. You staying on periodically benefits you much more than the landlord.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 21:39
    -1

    🤦‍♂️🤣

    [Deactivated] on 04/09/2020 - 21:39 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
  • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2020 - 00:15
    +1

    Unsure why people are getting confused, your rights are to live in the property until the end of the fixed term, anything other than this is what the landlord allows you to do (with required notice).

    You don’t have any rights to decide what happens after the end of the fixed terms at the moment.

  • Some Guy on 05/09/2020 - 00:50
    +1

    You could use the landlords desire for a new lease and the state of the rental market to negotiate a rent reduction.

  • AustriaBargain on 05/09/2020 - 07:51

    Maybe offer more per month if 6 months is too long.

  • Sharles on 05/09/2020 - 07:56

    I’ve had this issue a few times and basically just called their bluff. It always seemed that the agent was pushing for us to sign a new lease rather than the landlord. We pay our rent on time and look after the place well. A smart landlord won’t evict us to then have to go through the cost, hassle, ave risk of finding a new tenet.

    So I’ve never signed a second lease for a place. The agent has always just given up.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2020 - 09:12
    +1

    Lots of advice to just ignore it or call their bluff, but this advice won’t help you if the landlord decides to terminate at the end of the fixed term and advertise for a new tenant. You, nor anyone on here can guarantee what motivation the landlord has or exactly what they will do.

    You have mentioned you’re happy to leave which obviously makes calling their bluff less risky if you really are happy to move in with friends.

  • OzHunterNSW on 05/09/2020 - 09:57

    The current lease expires… and it effectively "rolls on"…
    There is no need to enter any new leasing arrangement… if so, you dictate the terms.
    It is a contract… so you negotiate the terms.
    You want a lease that allows you to vacate with minimal notification.

    YOU NEGOTIATE THE TERMS

    • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2020 - 12:32

      you dictate the terms.

      Nope.

      YOU NEGOTIATE THE TERMS

      Yes. Negotiation. Mutual agreement.

  • Melba on 05/09/2020 - 10:53
    +1

    Leases automatically roll on to month to month after the lease period is over.

    I'm sure the LL and real estate would "rather" you sign a new lease but it isn't a legal requirement.

    Periodic or month to month leasing is a legal form of a lease.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/09/2020 - 12:36
      +1

      The landlord may end the contract and serve a notice to vacate.

      It seems many commenters are taking the "it's not possible" in a cherry picked sense.

      Physically, it is possible. It can be done.

      I think what OP is trying to convey is that the PM/LL is not agreeable to it, in which case, the landlord can evict the tenant suitably after serving a notice to vacate.

      The option is, renew for a fixed period or LL wants to look for a new tenant for said fixed period.

  • Ginag on 05/09/2020 - 13:02
    -1

    The real estate agent will insist on signing a new contract as it's in their interest as they charge the landlord really well in just printing of some paper.
    So their insistence on signing an agreement is because they are only acting in their own interests.

    • HeWhoKnows on 05/09/2020 - 17:09
      -1

      WRONG WRONG WRONG

      You obviously have no idea.
      Pls dont comment if you dont know.

  • HeWhoKnows on 05/09/2020 - 17:07
    -2

    You have the right to carry on with the current lease and terms on a month to month basis. i.e. Do nothing
    OR
    You can renew on newly agreed terms i.e You can re-negotiate EVERYTHING.

    NB Either party can give notice to end the agreement when the current fixed term lease period expires.
    Its pretty obvious though that the agent is trying to lock you in for a further 6 or 12 months so ZERO chance of them ending the lease.

  • ozbjunkie on 05/09/2020 - 19:52
    +1

    As others have said, owner might not want possibility that property is vacant over Christmas.

    But, the agent might also just be pushing for a rental contact because they get 2 weeks worth of rent as a fee for each contract signed (from memory).

    The owner might not choose to kick you out if you just let the contract end and then go periodically.

    I'd guess the estate agent just wants the commission. But it would be difficult to know without talking to the owner directly about their intentions.

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