Smart Switch Installation Need Advice

destination on 31/08/2020 - 12:23

https://imgur.com/a/mXeDbFZ

Please check pictures from above link

I have bought this smart switch from amazon Refer to 1st pic (Please disregard the 3rd Gang as I have bought 1 of 2 Gang and 2nd one 1 Gang.)

2nd and 3rd pic is currently the old switch that is connected and 2nd pic with 2 switches Left one is connected as 2 way switch to control one light build which connects to 2nd switch in 3rd picture. 2nd pic right switch act as a independent switch for 1 light bulb.

Is there anyone who can guide me to connect this smart switch and act as a 2 way switch for 1 light bulb. Thanks

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • emblurr on 31/08/2020 - 12:36

    It has
    L (Line)
    GND (Ground)
    N (Neutral)

    Going to need to run the Neutral wire down to the switch to permanently power it

    • destination on 31/08/2020 - 12:43

      So you mean to say that with existing wiring it is not going to work?

  • iampoor on 31/08/2020 - 12:49

    Just wondering if this is considered electrical work with an electrician needed?

    I would imagine once you turn off the main circuit breaker things should be pretty safe, just unscrew, insert wire and screw again but you never know..

    • destination on 31/08/2020 - 12:51
      -4

      I am trying to do it myself without hiring electrician as I am just going to change these 2 switch only.

      • Seasoned Salt on 31/08/2020 - 12:54
        +1

        Big no no.

        There is always a risk, and all for the purpose of saving $100. Better be safe than sorry when it comes to electricity, especially within your own homes.

  • Sergeant Salami on 31/08/2020 - 13:11
    +7

    If you're asking the question then the answer is "hire an electrician"

  • websterp on 31/08/2020 - 13:16

    Considering you have no idea what you are doing just hire an Electrician. Replacing a 3 gang switch is not considered DIY in Australia and from the looks of it I highly doubt your switch is even approved to be installed here.

    Regarding your question - You need Neutral to the switch. There are certain switches that does not need a Neutral wire but yours is not one of those. It is also a bit strange that it has an earth terminal being a light switch.

  • JimmyF on 31/08/2020 - 13:30
    +1

    Please check pictures from above link

    Without even looking, I guessed you had been in NSW.

    Its a NSW thing, no neutral at the light switch, which the smart switch needs.

    Time to call a electrician in and they can get one there for you and install your plug etc.

    I have bought this smart switch from amazon

    Just to be clear, this isn't the sellers fault your building doesn't have a neutral

    • destination on 31/08/2020 - 13:56

      So this means that if there is no neutral wire then I can't use this switch? Is there any other smart switch available which don't need neutral?

      What about this one: https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-grid-connect-smart-single-g…

      Will this also needs neutral?

      • websterp on 31/08/2020 - 14:00

        Yes it does.

      • Seasoned Salt on 31/08/2020 - 14:04
        +4

        You clearly are not electrically inclined, let the electricians do the job.

        • websterp on 31/08/2020 - 14:09
          +2

          ^ This. If you are trying to figure out what neutral and live is then please do yourself a favor and hire an electrician to run a Neutral at the switch. This way you will be able to live on to use your smart switches one day!

          • destination on 31/08/2020 - 14:27

            @websterp: I can Hire a electrician which is not a problem, just don't want to run additional wire for neutral wire which may cost lot more.

            • websterp on 31/08/2020 - 14:37

              @destination: Running a Neutral is the proper way to do this or forget about smart switches altogether and take the smart light path so you would not have to deal with this issue and also much safer than installing wall switches yourself.

              At present I'm not aware of any no-neutral smart switch sold and approved to be used in Australia.
              If you are happy to take the risk(looks like you are) you can purchase no neutral switches such as these from places like Aliexpress. I take no responsibility in suggesting these as I have no idea or experience with these or their QA. You are buying something that is connected to 240V all day every day so if this starts a fire and burns down your house then you are on your own.

            • JimmyF on 31/08/2020 - 14:40

              @destination:

              just don't want to run additional wire for neutral wire which may cost lot more.

              Then you can't have those smart switches as they need a neutral.

              Maybe look at 'smart' lights instead.

      • JimmyF on 31/08/2020 - 14:39

        So this means that if there is no neutral wire then I can't use this switch?

        Correct

        Will this also needs neutral?

        Also correct

      • giftcardinspector on 01/09/2020 - 07:37

        Phillips Hue switches and globes are a way around needing electrical work

      • mikekiwimike on 01/09/2020 - 10:04
        -1

        If you have only two wires then you have Live and Neutral connected as that is required to run a circuit. It does not need a ground to be powered permanently, I have 5 of them installed now and all are working.

        Ignore what people are saying here about them not working on 2 wires, they will and do work, you should use an electrician though if you don't understand the concepts.

        BTW, anyone who has said "no neutral" at the light switch clearly does not know what they are talking about…..

        • Densor on 01/09/2020 - 10:46
          +1

          You are wrong. What you normally have at a light switch is an active and what is refereed to as a "switch" wire. The active comes from the loop terminal of your light fitting, and the switch wire returns to the light fitting and connects to the active terminal. There is no negative at the light switch.

          Many non smart dimmer switches will work just on the voltage drop across the switch, but some also require a separate negative. It is all in the design. Your smart switch is probably the same.

        • websterp on 01/09/2020 - 11:01
          +1

          BTW, anyone who has said "no neutral" at the light switch clearly does not know what they are talking about…..

          I suppose you know better than smart switch manufactures about their own product since they are are ones who specifically mention whether their switches could be used in a scenario where neutral is available or not.

          https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/Toolbox/electrotech/toolbox12…

          There are only two methods of wiring a light switch in Australia - Loop at the light and loop at the switch. In OP's case they have used the loop at the light method. Unlike mechanical switches smart switches need continuous power to operate and stay connected to wifi/zigbee, etc. All these smart switches therefore have a small switching PSU inside to power the electronics of the switch. Could you please explain how this circuit could stay powered on without a Neutral and Live to the switch itself? If you have incandescent lights connected to the smart switch then yes, there is a possibility for this circuit to be completed via the restive filament of the bulbs and the smart switch to stay powered on but with LED globes it does not work like that.

    • plugmeister on 01/09/2020 - 11:21

      It ain't a NSW thing, it's a WTF is the origin of the power source and how I wire this as efficiently as possible…

      • JimmyF on 01/09/2020 - 11:38

        It ain't a NSW thing

        Its more a NSW thing than the other states. Head south and in VIC/TAS the defacto standard is the neutral is looped via the switch.SA/WA are 50/50.

        On whingepool I remember reading about a thread on smart switches and a sparky said there is no standard defined for how this should be done, both ways are 'valid'. So depends on where you learned the trade.

        efficiently as possible…

        The $10 in cable the sparky saved on the job, but didn't pass on to the homeowner, is well and truly loss the first time the owner wants to put in a smart switch!

  • destination on 31/08/2020 - 15:00

    Thanks guys, I will probably go fro smart light rather than running extra cable and hiring a electrician.

    • mikekiwimike on 01/09/2020 - 10:13

      That is a decent way to go…. the problems that I have found as I have done switches and bulbs both is that sometimes people turn the switch off and then motion sensors etc can't work when turned off - unless the switch is a smart switch. In the case where there is a smart switch then the lights in many situations really don't need to be smart lights as they just want to be on or off. So my scenario and advice would be.

      Use Smart switches and normal "dumb" bulbs in rooms where you will never change the light colour (Bathroom, toilet, outside lights) and use smart switch and smart lights where you want mood lights, Living room, bedroom (being very general here lol) maybe Dining room.

      Turning lights on and off with smart assistants can be slower than pushing the switch which is why I suggest the above. The Deta lights and smart switches are very good, the Grid connect app or Tuya Smart app will work, the benefit of Tuya smart is that it is less garish on the eyes and has a few more options.

      If you have the $$$ to invest then the best thing to get is Philips Hue as it can all run locally, whereas all the others (without Home assist) will route to the internet and back for anything you do which in practise is super fast and no issue until you lose wifi or you lose the ISP and then you have no control at all :-(

    • dimitryp on 01/09/2020 - 10:52

      you can get a smart switch model that works. see my comment lower down in thread.

  • destination on 31/08/2020 - 15:04

    Is there anyone here who can identify if there is a neutral wire or not by looking on to 2nd and 3rd pic?

    • brokenglish on 31/08/2020 - 15:25

      Yep, you dont have neutral on yours. Most smart switches need neutral to operate. You can however find smart switches that dont need neutral.

      If you want to keep using yours, need to call electrician to add neutral. Get quotes from electricians, it’s free. They want your $ bruv.

    • JimmyF on 31/08/2020 - 15:58
      +1

      Is there anyone here who can identify if there is a neutral wire or not by looking on to 2nd and 3rd pic?

      Already told you above you don't have one……

      • destination on 31/08/2020 - 16:15
        -1

        Just double confirming.Thanks

  • ECE on 31/08/2020 - 15:11

    DIY=DIE

    • brokenglish on 31/08/2020 - 15:27
      +3

      OP username checks out. Just needs Final.

    • plugmeister on 01/09/2020 - 11:26

      Not in non "Nanny State" countries like NZ, UK etc etc. All that is required is a bit of personal responsibility. Oh I forget, we don't do that in Straya ;)

  • pencilhead on 01/09/2020 - 08:18

    These work by switching a relay.
    A momentary button triggers a relay that switches the mains.
    If it's a smart switch with wifi then you could possibly do it in software.
    ie
    Turn on SW1 tells SW2 to turn on, then turn on light.
    Turn off SW1 tells SW2 to turn off, then turn off light.
    Turn on SW2 tells SW1 to turn on, then turn on light.
    Turn off SW2 tells SW1 to turn off, then turn off light.

    You need a rule for all possible combinations.

    The Deta smart switches from Bunnings are pretty good and can be hacked to run esp home / tasmota etc.

    Americans call them 3 way switches.
    A quick search:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er5nGIZX1dg

    • destination on 01/09/2020 - 09:59
      -1

      So will this work with out connecting neutral?

      • plugmeister on 01/09/2020 - 11:22

        Nooooooooo, the smart switch needs active and neutral to power itself, then each 'switch' needs its own set of wires to activate the light.

  • dimitryp on 01/09/2020 - 10:51

    I've been through this with my smart switches. There only several models world-wide that are "2 wire" designs, which work without a neutral wire.
    This is the ones i've wired in (myself) in my house, as i also dont have neutral wires running down to switches. They're good, and they work. (they're zwave, so you need a zwave hub too)

    https://capitalsmarthomes.com.au/products/aeon-labs-z-wave-p…

    The guy that runs that capitalsmarthomes shop (in canberra) is super helpful too and has helped me with wiring questions previously.

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