Great price for a new ITX build to match all the cheap Ryzen CPUs that have been posted. Local stock is fetching around $400 delivered.
Backorder, I woudldn't expect them until late July/early August.
CamelCamelCamel.
Yup PCIE 4.0 4x NVMe drive and PCIE 4.0 16x GPU slot. It's good if your looking to keep the same build for a while and may want to upgrade to fast drives and newer generation GPUs in the next few years. Otherwise i'd get the cheaper B450.
If you're looking to keep your rig for a while, you should wait till next year when the new CPU socket is announced. The CPUs that come out over the next few months are the last ones that will fit in this board.
Depends - CPUs generally dont have a large imapct in performance compared to GPUs so you could buy a high end 4 series ryzen and probably be good for 5+ years if you can handle turn the settings down a notch. And as we move to 4K the CPU becomes less important as the frames become more GPU bottlenecked.
as we move towards 4K?
What's this "We" business? My eyesights getting worse, not better :P
I'm kinda predicting that if I forgo Ray tracing and stick to 1080p, my GTX1080 will last forever.
If you're looking to keep your rig for a while, you should wait till next year when the new CPU socket is announced.
That means another year without a rig for some people.
Otherwise i'd get the cheaper B450
What's a good value one to get now if you're not looking at upgrading components in the future.
There are too many variables. If your not overclocking, get literally any board (the cheapest) and you'll be fine. If your overclocking, then you should know enough to make that decision yourself.
@jv: size, use, need for OC, BIOS for some is a big issue, RAM support, number of slot's on the board for things like M.2 drives, SATA support, if its has RGB. The list can go on.
@jv: Ask yourself the questions for what you personally need, then seek out what boards have those features and buy the one you are most comfortable with?
Ask yourself the questions for what you personally need
That is not how OzBargain works.
depends, the Asrock B450 ITX motherboard has a relatively weak power delivery to support 10core/16core processors.
the B550 have mostly been designed to adequately run the high core count CPUs.
but for Ryzen 3 and 5 processor, PCIe 4.0 is the only advantage.
only asked as i grabbed an asus b450-i gaming a few weeks back (which i haven't built yet). pcie4 doesn't do much for me but really wanted the dual m.2 slots. wondered if the $70 price difference to a b550 was worth the trade off but don't think it is…
No there's a few other nice features in the b550 boards; ports, 3.2 gen2, vrms, gen 3 GPL
For this interested in a sub 20L build, the Cooler Master NR200 should hopefully come out later in the year.
I just built a SFF for my friend. Used Inwin A1, although a little hard to do, a very cost-effective and pretty case at 15~16L, was looking at NZXT H1 but out of stock everywhere.
Yeah NZXT H1 is a great case but no stock till August :|
I would say a lot of that price is also the included SFX-L PSU, AIO and riser cable. So if you have a need for the AIO, it might still be worth it for the great case you can show off.
I want the NZXT H1 so bad, but like an ozbargainer, I don't want to pay full price!!!
I got everything else discounted so I didn't even care about paying full price but I definitly don't want to get an inflated second hand so went with inwin A1 plus. At $289, you get 650 gold power supply which cost you around $150 and you get a wireless charger and two RGB fan and a RGB strip.
I think it is a good package on the cheap side.
Be aware, I would never build it for someone else again for this case. Very very hard to build.
Nice case though i'm not a fan of risers. I ended up going for Lian Li TU150 which is larger (23L) but avoids a lot of compatibility issue that sub 20L cases have.
I got a jonbso A4. $220 at PLE. For me, the best A4 showcase. Building mine soon
looks good, lets hope it doesnt cost over 150 lol, these cases are so small and so expensive, and the cougar QBX and silverstones looks ugly at the cheap end of the market
Price was $80 USD with a perforated side panel or $100 USD for tempered glass
Might want to include that it's selling here in Australia for $399 +/- delivery.
So with delivery, it's just about a 15% discount.
Also, those that don't have a use for a front USB-C connector might opt for the Gigabyte B550-I and save a bit more cash (RRP $349 vs $399).
Both this ASRock board and the Gigabyte B550-I board have best in class 6+2 90A VRM power stages.
The Gigabyte B550-I however has a full back plate as well and is looking like THE B550 ITX board to get.
Problem is , most x570 boards are close to this price as they came out earlier and prices have dropped . Either go x570 for the pcie 4, or go cheaper and b450 as both will support the new ryzen anyway. The B550 price is too close to the x570.
The cheapest ITX x570 I can find is 441.95 with shipping - so they are:
run hotter and thus require a chipset fan
going to need a source on this
You dont want a lot of heat in an ITX board that goes into a very small case
you do realise power consumption doesn't change so overall heat output is the same between different boards
going to need a source on this
Its common knowledge. Look at any photo of a x570 board.
you do realise power consumption doesn't change so overall heat output is the same between different boards
I dont think you understand. Your CPU and GPU power requirements do no change, so yes they stay the same in terms of thermals. However due to the PCIE 4.0 bridge between CPU and all PCIE lanes (since its a completely PCIE 4.0 board), the chipset uses more power and generates more heat. B550 uses PCIE 3.0 for most communications (except GPU and 1 NVMe slot) so it uses less power, and the chipset/motherboard runs much cooler.
@Kill Joy: so i read that reddit thread the guy says:
"I have the X570 Phantom Gaming X with a 3900X, it seems to idle around 60°C and climb up to ~74°C under load."
"I contacted Asrock customer support and they said that the chipset was good all the way to 95°C and if the temps do get high I could depopulate the m.2 slots it supports (silly considering the premium price of this board)"
this guy thinks 74 degrees is a high number, kids these days…
@abctoz: I dont understand - what are you debating here? I've proven x570 requires a chipset fan. Why? Because it generates lots of heat. I assume your not an electrical engineer, but efficencies of electronics are heavily tied to thermals. PCIE 4.0 is new and temperature sensitive and needs to stay cool to maintain its rated speeds.
A literal quote from MSI:
Of course nobody wants this but it’s much needed for this platform, because there are a lot of speedy things inside and we need to make sure you can use them. So that’s why we need proper cooling.
In a normal sized case, this is probably not an issue. but if you're overclocking in a sub 20L case it's not something i'd want.
@Kill Joy: are you trolling me bro, the link you posted is giving evidence to the contrary, he is worried at a temperature of 74 degrees, which is understandable because humans find 74 degrees hot, but i don't think this is the case for electronics
@abctoz: I'm like 99% sure you're the one trolling, but I'll bite anyway.
That is the temperature WITH the chipset fan. A quick google for you since you've proven you can't do that yourself:
The normal/average temperature for a Chipset is 30-45 Celsius when idle an 45-65 Celsius when under load.
So its operating above the average, with a fan. Without a fan, it would be much hotter. But its not that 74c is specifically hot, its that the excess heat from the chipset is being blown around the case - this is not good for a ITX build where there is not much air in the case to circulate. I really can't be more clear than this but I feel you'll find a way to mis-interpret me again to satiate your ego/pride.
@Kill Joy: i'd like repeat information gleaned from your own source:
"I contacted Asrock customer support and they said that the chipset was good all the way to 95°C and if the temps do get high I could depopulate the m.2 slots it supports (silly considering the premium price of this board)"
in case you don't have a degree in mathematics 95 > 74
@abctoz: man you really are persistantly ignoring what i say. Let me clarify:
its not that 74c is specifically hot
What i said.
not good for a ITX build where there is not much air in the case to circulate
This is the history of this conversation:
I think you kinda know that we're talking about different things, but you've just chosen the hill you're going to die on and its hilarious.
@Kill Joy: i keep repeating myself because you do not give a valid counter-argument, to do so, either:
or
you keep going off on a irrelevant tangents whilst i'm simply refuting your original point
@abctoz: I NEVER said i gets to 95c. you've invented this line of thinking that I never mentioned. Read my original post…
run hotter and thus require a chipset fan
This is undeniably true. It has a chipset fan. Why do you need fans? Heat.
You dont want a lot of heat in an ITX board that goes into a very small case
do i mention that the chipset overheats? Or that it hits 95c? Nothing to do with the chipset specifically overheating, just that it does generate more heat then other chipsets and this means your GPU/CPU will run warmer in a small case as a result. Thats all.
If your talking about this comment i made much later
PCIE 4.0 is new and temperature sensitive and needs to stay cool to maintain its rated speeds.
Yes it needs to stay under 95c and it does. It does that by spreading heat around the case. Once again im talking about keeping the whole computer cooler, not specifically that the chipset will overheat and explode.
do you see how your defending a position that no one has attacked?
@Kill Joy: well going by asrock overheat means going over 95c… can you provide evidence to the contrary?
@abctoz: Okay i'm absolutely sure you are trolling because I've never said it overheats. Search the page. I said 'It runs hot' In fact overheat as a word hasn't been used on this entire page until my last response, where i was explicitly confirming i've never said they overheat.
I genuinely feel sorry for you and hope this is just some isolation side effect for you.
@abctoz: Anything can overheat if its cooling mechanisms are removed. A car will overheat if you remove it's radiator fan.
In this case the chipset does not overheat, because it has a fan to dissipate heat into the case.
Are we done?
@Kill Joy: ahh misunderstanding i thought the x570 board you linked didn't have a fan lol…
in any case if the chipset does indeed reach 95c without a fan there is a problem i'm not disputing that.
@abctoz: I'm pretty sure every x570 has a fan - that was kinda the entire point of this back and forth, or at least i thought.
@Kill Joy: if you gave me evidence of the chipset on a x450 board overheating which i thought would be easy since it is common knowledge as your described, we wouldn't be having this conversation ;)
if you gave me evidence of the chipset on a x450 board overheating
Wrong board? And i never said it overheated so there was no evidence required.
@Kill Joy: you're right i somehow thought you were saying ryzen m/b chipsets were overheating, and that it needed a fan, which sounded ludicrous to me, my bad :/
I paid like $199 for a MSI B450I Gaming Plus prior to covid from umart and it was rated to have a very good vrm by gamers nexus and buildzoid. Im struggling to see how b550 can justify over $100 more. I mean besides pci gen 4 and some future possible cpu support it doesn't seem like b550 prices are that justified from what ive been seeing :/
Better VRM? Although the VRM on the MSI is meant to be pretty good even for the 9 series.
front panel type c header
2nd m.2 slot
2.5gb ethernet
better wifi/bluetooth
I'd hesitate to put a 16 core on the b450i. It might be possible, but your vrm will run quite a bit hotter and this may impact the lifespan of the motherboard and the performance of the cpu.
If all of those perks don't matter to you, and you just want to run a 3600/3700x or whatever, then by all means - get a b450i board.
Interesting, Yeah i wouldn't see anyone really doing a 16 core on a non X chipset but fair point. I guess for my use case my pc is just a pew pew machine and not a work box so no need for alot of the other bits, the second m.2 is good though.
why not get something like this way cheaper https://www.amazon.com.au/Performance-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-B…
because it's a totally different product without PCIe4?
sounds like some niche features to me
With PS5 arriving its clear GPUs will need to make massive jumps to keep up. Next gen GPUs are very likely to need PCIE 4.0 on the high end.
@Kill Joy: if you look at the history of the jump from pcie 2.0 to pcie 3.0, for the average guy, you'll probably need to start worrying after another 10 years
@abctoz: You're really bad at googling just about anything so I'll do it for you.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-pe…
Short version, yes right now we are only just hitting the limits of PCIE 3 (barely) - so you seems be implying that it'll take 10 years for GPUs to get any stronger then the current generation. I don't think I need to say anymore.
@Kill Joy: i said 'probably' meaning its an estimate, but if you look at pcie 3.0 which was released in 2013, we're in 2020 and i'm barely saturating pcie 2.0 so go figure
@abctoz: We've already just about hitting saturation point on PCIE 3.0, i've shown that with source above. You're personally anecdote is not representative of the average gamer who builds their own PC just because it's how you happen to use your PC. So yea, I guess I do figure.
@abctoz: You've got terrible comprehension skills and it explains a lot
not representative of the average gamer who builds their own PC
Are you telling me all steam users build their own PCs?
@Kill Joy: i certainly have built all my pc's and i would imagine most gamers do
but i'm not trying to deceive you if you can provide better data go ahead i'm happy to see new data
@abctoz: I gave you evidence for my claims - you are the one that should be providing data to support your claims. I simply said you cannot use yourself as the only evidence of something, and lazily linking to steam which doesn't differentiate built vs bought doesn't provide any support to your claims either.
@Kill Joy: i provided you the best data i am aware of, and gave you the option of giving me better data which you don't have so…
at any rate have a look at actual benchmarks, if you're on pcie 2.0 (lol) you'll lose 10% performance, i know end of the world stuff…
@abctoz: If your data does nothing to support your claim then you have not provided any evidence at all. But okay by that logic;
People who breath throgh their mouths are all serial killers because thats what i beleive, unless you've got any evidence that says they dont? There's no better research about the topic so I guess my 'evidence' is good enough.
you'll lose 10% performance
If we let 10% performance be lost to each computer part suddenly you're getting half the FPS you should be. Slippery slope to why uprgade anything at all? Why not buy Ryzen 1000 series since its only marginally slower then the newest gen.
your data does nothing to support your claim
in your opinion
If we let 10% performance be lost to each computer part suddenly
if, but those are actual benchmarks so…
if, but those are actual benchmarks so…
Okay So now you are agreeing that there is a noticeable a difference in PCIE versions, and since we are hitting PCIE 3.0 limit now (1-2% loss), its realistic that there could be close to 10% perforance loss difference in the next few years?
@abctoz: This is assuming GPU tech has linear growth - I speculate that next generation would be a big jump. In that case, say GPU performance doubles vs the usual 10-15% difference, would that speed up your timeline?
@Kill Joy: sure anything can happen
i'm extrapolating so that by itself isn't very accurate
but you have to understand gamedevs want to make money too, so they will tend to cater to the hardware most people have - that won't be pcie 4.0, have a think about that my 2c
@abctoz: Have you seen the PS5 demo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBktSo0bXas
If most peoples PC cant beat the graphics of a $600 console, PC gaming will die quickly or PCs will need much more powerful hardware at better pricing to remain competitive. My 2c
@Kill Joy: the price is TBD, 500USD = ~750AUD currently
you simply need to match the 5700 xt that is inside the PS5, which isn't out of the imagination, even on pcie 2.0
@abctoz: Sure $750, my mistake.
Console notorously provide much better performance than PCs given the same compute power - so while it technically ahs the same FLOPs and compute units as a 5700XT, it'll probably perform much closer to 2080 ti (in my opinion).
@Kill Joy: imo less so these days particularly when they're literally using the same hardware architecture as PC now
but i am very keen on what they can pull off with AI and raytracing, that can more than make up for what brute compute power provides
Holy moly they're expensive now. I could swear they were sub $200 before the lockdowns.
yes i was aware of the itx tax but this just seems a little crazy
copy/pasted from my response to another poster:
front panel type c header
2nd m.2 slot
2.5gb ethernet
better wifi/bluetooth
I'd hesitate to put a 16 core on the b450i. It might be possible, but your vrm will run quite a bit hotter and this may impact the lifespan of the motherboard and the performance of the cpu.
If all of those perks don't matter to you, and you just want to run a 3600/3700x or whatever, then by all means - get a b450i board.
according to this guys testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJgrtR40uk the higher end b450 boards are fine with 3900x/3950x
In his testing you can see that the VRM runs ~25 degrees warmer on the b450. That's quite a margin! That should still be within spec for the VRM components, but that doesn't mean that it won't still die off sooner than a colder VRM. And it can contribute to heating up other components of your build somewhat, particularly if you are in a SFF PC. So yeah, I'd hesitate to use that combination myself or suggest it to someone.
@titeywitey: you're also getting fan noise in comparison. the VRMs are rated at 150 degrees so im sure it'll be fine. and it's only 16 degrees difference at stock speeds
I would love to be able to find a mini itx board for under $150 for a Ryzen 3600
If your okay with going with an older board try out B350/a320
https://cplonline.com.au/asus-prime-a320i-k-csm-am4-mini-itx…
I had seen that but was worried it won't support 3rd gen out of the box, and would the vrm handle a 3600?
I did a quick google and there are examples. Maybe pick a specific model and check what the manufactur says it supports out of the box?
AMD is not providing support for 3rd Gen Ryzen on the a320.
@starburstyellow: Regardless if they "provide support" for it or not, Ryzen 3rd gen 100% works on a320 boards. My issue is that I don't have 1st gen CPU to do the bios update so I'd need it to come with the latest bios out of the box
@scottySK: I'm sorry, I think you are confused with 3rd Gen and the 3xxx series.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/290468-not-all-am4-mot…
@scottySK: All good, saw that you did start with the 3600 comment but switched it up with 3rd Gen later. Hence the reply.
I'm in a situation atm too. I want to buy a new machine (currently running a 6 yr old 8gb ram + gtx 960) but 3rd Gen end of year, lack of b550 and ultimately waiting for nvidia 30xx series cards. Arghh.. The itch.
@starburstyellow: Yes the naming schemes aren't very user friendly.
It's never a good time to buy it seems, always "wait for xxx" etc I'd be quite happy to pick up a 3600 for the usual $270ish price if only I could find a cheap itx board, even if future upgrade paths are limited. I'm still using a 980ti so I'm not a user who upgrades regularly, I think a 3600 would be plenty of power for years to come
@scottySK: Yeah they are -_-
Oh don't get me started. I've always built full atx boards but never ever use any of the other pci spots. Besides when sounds cards were a think. Shoutout soundblaster X-Fi in 2004.
Now I'm thinking mATX or even itx. Was looking at this
https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Motherboards/AMD-Socket-…
![[Backorder] ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax $326.14 + Delivery ($0 with Prime) @ Amazon US via AU](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/59/547459.jpg?h=81f5b4d5)
is the only advantage of this over a b450 ITX board PCIe 4.0?