Stop buying those shit Global knives and get an actually good set.
These knives have inflated rrps, but this is actually a really good price.
shun is a highly regarded knife brand, and they rarely go on sale.
Actual pro chefs use them, /r/chefknives love them, and I own a 2 set and they're fantastic.
Actually, why neg? Actually what he said is actually right !
I thought someone with two knives would be happy
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/021/665/DpQ…
Literally me when it comes to global knives
Maybe you're literally just not using them correctly?
Too busy being a smart arse and I missed out on buying the knives…dammit!!!
Love this brand. Have been slowly building a set as needed.
how do you store it when not in used they come in their own case if you don’t buy the block??
I had a cheap block I used. Brought the Shun block later too.
Magnetic knife strip on the wall
Is there any background to the assertion that global knives are bad or is it just trolling?
Don't argue with him, he owns lots of knives.
While you were out partying and getting girls I studied the blade
While they were out partying getting no girls *
I'm not a chef. Have used both. My feelings are:
- Shun seem sharper and stays sharper longer
- Shuns weighting is better
- Shuns warm wooden handles as opposed to cold steel
They're not bad. For the price, they're pretty decent.
But they use a softer steel (CROMOVA 18 steel, 56 Rockwell hardness scale) than shun or wusthof (VG 10 , 60+)
Means they need to be sharpened more often, from personal experience with daily use, global need to be sharpened once every 2 weeks to keep a good edge.
My shun knives maybe sharpened once every 1.5 months.
Also shun knives have layered metal. I think 16 times.
Also shun have full tang, meaning it's a single price of metal from the blade to the handle.
Global is 2 prices of metal soldered together and polished to look like one.
More prone to breaking.
What's your recommended method for sharpening? Whetstone only? Or is pull through OK for the amatuers?
Learn to use a whetstone properly, and you can make a cheap knife awesome. After I've gone to town on the crappy Ikea knives my wife bought, they're actually quite good to use. I'm only moderately good at sharpening this way, but practice makes perfect.
…and hone often. Get a steel if you don't have one. A nice long one of good quality. Don't need a diamond steel - they're really more like a stone…the steel is only to straighten up the cutting edge and maybe take off burrs.
I don't think any pull through device I've ever used comes close to a whetstone for sharpening. I use them in a pinch but I'm not a fan of the results. I have one that I take camping for example. My feeling is that they simply don't get the nice clean edge that you can get with even a cheap set of whetstones. Understandably, that sort of investment in time might not be for everybody though.
Edit: I should add, that if you try hard enough you can really screw up a knife by doing it yourself. Be brave, or just take them to a pro now and then.
@Banj0: Thanks, I kind of like the idea of using a whetstone, I'll have to youtube and find out how involved it is. Maybe I'll start with some cheap Ikea knives
Couldn't agree more with Ken. Literally, word for word especially with respect to edge retention/sharpening issues and Global vs Shun. On another matter… I met a guy about 6 months ago who said a knife should stay sharp for about TWO YEARS.
I thought, yah… if you keep it stored in a box. In his defence I think he realised he'd made a stupid comment and uninformed statement. Even with a respectable and mindful user your lucky if you make it to a month in most cases no matter what the brand of knife. Take butchers for example. Most everyone has seen them doing their edge maintenance. Most can nearly do it blindfolded and insist on doing it nearly every day before a cutting session or just to get ahead of the day.
Just a layperson's two cents. Apparently, there is a trade-off between softer vs harder steel knives. Softer ones require more frequent sharpening, harder ones are more brittle (for eg., the cutting edge relatively more vulnerable to chipping). And for a layperson, it really seems to come down to price issue. I timed this purchase (www.groupon.com.au/deals/groupon-goods-719371191) with 25%-off Groupon sale, stacked it up with Cashrewards (I love you, OzB community :)) ), and from memory the all-in cost with delivery worked out to be just under $150 for this (www.myer.com.au/p/global-teikoku-5-piece-knife-block-set). I moved to a new place recently and finally began using the knives, but only after I bought MinoSharp in Victorias Basement for $29.95. So I will be sharpening the knives regularly. It's interesting though to learn about the stuff discussed here, if I ever become a knives purist. P.S.: can anyone recommend a good Youtube video from which you can learn how to properly sharpen a knife with a whetstone (I still use older and cheaper knives)? I myself found this guy (www.youtube.com/user/stefanwolf88). Cheers.
can anyone recommend a good Youtube video from which you can learn how to properly sharpen a knife with a whetstone
@O O: Cheers mate, exactly a video I was after at my current level of knowledge and expertise. There is so much useless BS stuff on internet, so the chances of a randomly selected Youtube search result actually being useful were low, hence was my query.
Now that I know I am after 1000 grit Japanese-style whetstone, where can I get a cheap but still good quality stuff? Can I get it in Bunnings? Or a reputable seller on eBay? Thanks to everyone who chips in with the knowledge.
Global knives aren't bad, their decent and a cut above your average cheap knife sets. I just wouldn't pay the price OzBargain is willing to pay for them.
A knife is just a sharpened piece of metal for a specific purpose (cutting/slicing/etc), so naturally the most even way to compare their quality is in the metal used to produce the knife and its forging method which thus, directly affects its cutting prowess and longevity
Lifetime free sharpening and better steel. Cromova 18 vs VG10 which is also layered Damascus meaning the craftsmanship on the Shun is superior.
Shuns really are good knives. Much better than Globals but somewhat like the Globals they can develop pitted' edges.
Also, not meaning to brag but I sharpened some Shuns' for someone about 9 months ago. He'd always had them sharpened by Shun… after I'd done them he immediately remarked how much better they were… like a LOT better.
I will never confess as to my method herein for professional reasons but I do believe I sharpen better than most.
As for Globals… I have a 'love/hate' relationship with them. They do sharpen up like hell… but for what people pay for them…
the edges should be more robust. I understand that some do like them and I do keep just one of them myself.
But I'd take a Shun over Gbl any day.
Global knives are …. nice…. I guess. They are decent but I have always had a preference for better knives and wooden handles.
Wustoff knives are slightly better than average if you are used to balanced European knives (shallower angled edge). They're mass produced these days so they're sort of ok.
For me, I have always preferred Masamoto or Miyabi. You pay a premium but the joy of using good knives (if you enjoy this sort of thing) cannot be understated.
But the most important thing about buying good quality knives is: Please Take Good Care Of Them! All knives become blunt after constant usage.
I've seen how people treat Japanese knives and it's jaw-dropping. From using them to cut through frozen meat (WTH?), to using their knife points like screw drivers to "wedge" meat. And don't get me on people sharpening them with a steel rod (both ways!).
Learn to properly care and sharpen a Japanese knife with a whetstone and it will reward you.
Lol omfg truth. But this sums up the "average home user" though
the worst offender is putting them into dish washer!! I know quite a few people who would do that and that pisses me off big time.
A family member used my little Shun pairing knife to open a bottle.
The knife is shorter than it used to be now.
I was told, "But I've never seen a knife just break like that before! There must have been something wrong with it!"
Well said jml. ''all knives become blunt'… I've sharpened knives for some people and usually domestic users but some lesser experienced… or young chefs can imagine a knife should stay sharp for MONTHS. I had one guy say to me not so long ago that a knife should stay sharp… FOR TWO YEARS. OMXG. Knives go dull people. Laws of physics apply to metal too… even your $$$ knives WILL become dull. The 'problem' is, is that a freshly sharpened edge is extremely delicate. You can make it dull in a HEARTBEAT.
Knives are for SLICING. NOT for chopping! If you want to chop anything… use a CLEAVER.
And the guys who say you 'only need one or two knives'… dumbest thing I've ever heard.
No bread knife for getting through a tougher crusted bread type like sourdough? Seriously? Even a proper tomato knife has serrations and is great for using on tomatoes. Ask anyone who has to cut 100s of them every day. Yes, you can use a straight edge but over the long term save them for meat and such! Acid from tomatoes/lemons etc are hard on super sharp edges, so just use a cheap tomato knife! 3 or less knives in a kitchen…? Say that out loud if you don't have any real idea about what you are talking about! :O)
You can do almost anything with just one knife if you really had to, let alone three, it just depends on how well you want it cut or how efficiently you want to do your cutting.
Your statement about not knowing what you are talking about heavily applies to you with your elitist attitude.
A knife in the kitchen is merely a tool to serve in the preparation of a meal. Apart from delicate sashimi, I'd say no one will ever notice what knives were used if your food is delicious.
This.. because VG-Max is a superior metal to that used by Wusthoff
Thanks!
Sounds like you know a lot about knives, how are they compared to Global G-80 Santoku in term of steel composition
Almost All Global knives use CROMOVA 18, which has a HRC of 56-58. VG-Max is arguably better being at HRC ~61.
But don't always just look at the HRC to determine if it is a good knife or not, craftsmanship also needs to be taken into consideration.
Shun's quality is very good so you can compare apples to apples in this case as both companies are great quality in terms of craftsmanship.
However i just hate Global tang (handle), Shun's handle profile is much nicer and easier to use.
@lplau: I agree. I'd say that Shuns' are some 20-40% better. I don't care much about the aesthetics of a knife myself and have found that Shuns simply are better… and sometimes depending on the knives being compared, by a long shot. I predominantly base this on experience. The Globals start 'pitting' much sooner than Shuns' do.
Not all of them… but too many of them do.
Not necessarily, VG-Max is great if you treat it right, but it's also more fragile than softer steels. Higher hardness = more brittle. Higher hardness also means a sharper edge is possible, so the edge angle on Shun knives is a few degrees less, making the edge thinner. It will definitely cut through things easier.
It's quite easy to chip something like a Shun knife (VG-Max, 60-61 Rockwell) compared to something like Wusthof (58 Rockwell) or Global (56 Rockwell). The average user is probably a bit of a cowboy in that they'll take their knives to bone, throw them in the sink, etc. You can chip hard steel like this. You can fix chipping with whetstones, but a good set is going to cost and the average user will probably equate their recklessness to the product being inferior quality.
Depends on what you planning to use it for. But overall that Wusthof Set is their most basic range so unlikely to out perform the Shun Set.
Shun Classic is actually 1 above their "basic" range (Sora is their Basic Range).
Shun knives are harder so keep an edge for longer, however being hard means its brittle so if you aren't one to use your knives properly, then you will likely chip it on Bone or trying to chop something hard. Where as German knives like Wusthof are generally more softer (Slightly) and less prone to chipping.
Japanese Knives (good ones):
- Usually high on the HRC scale (harder) - 60+
- Deeper Edge geometry - Sharper but in turn make the edge thinner which will chip if you use it wrong
Wusthof and German Knives (good ones):
- Slightly lower HRC scale (softer) around 57-60 or so
- Shallower Edge Geometry - Sharp but not as sharp, but wont chip as easy due to more edge + softer steel.
The above are just generalizations, and obviously doesn't fit fringe cases where by different knives go through different heat treating.
This is good info.
@Kingdutan: Note also that VG metals aren't really classed as stainless, rather "corrosion resistant".. I personally wouldn't leave these in the dishwasher… wash and dry after use. Most will argue its overkill.. but when you pay good money for good quality knifes.. the same way you wouldn't leave birshit on the paint of your brand new car
For any good knives, DO NOT ever put into the dishwasher.
Wash + Hand Dry with towel / paper towel.
Overtime with the aggressive chemicals from the dishwashing powder, will eventually kill your wooden / synthetic handles.
@dsp26: Is the next conversation aruond how she always packs the dishwasher and you never lift a finger to help, and oh god would it kill you to not hang your clothes on the chair in the bedroom and fold somethng for once in your life?
Or is that just me?
@lplau: Don't know about "good knives", but definitely sharp knives. We wipe with a wrung out dish cloth then dry and put away. No chips in any blades while mixing with other utensils etc.
Thanks, didn't know about that. I've been using crappy $10 knives, so this is the first time ever I invest this much into knives. Still doing a bit of research on these 2 sets.
Agreed…if you leave these knives with tomato seeds or something acidic in the blade, it will mark, though usually not too badly.
I have an older Shun that is some sort of higher carbon steel. It has to be immediately cleaned and dried after use, and will tarnish or rust in a heartbeat if left dirty/wet. I rub it (and the handle) with an oil/beeswax paste. Bit of a pain, but it has by far the best edge of our modest knife collection!
Great post; to add - for most people having two knives is the best result. One for cutting/softer items and one for chopping/harder items. Having one Japanese and one German style works out well.
To add (2): there are some great Japanese knives you can buy online, if you like having a damascus pattern or something unusual on the blade (or as a handle). You can buy a good knife for under $200 easily, something that doesnt look like it has come straight from the cabinet in DJs.
Love your analogy and completely agree. This is why I believe domestic users should stick with 'softer' knives.
Easier to sharpen and more forgiving if mistreated/dropped.
Can't knock Global as they seem to have better marketing people than others… sigh.
Give me a softer Wusty' any day… or a good/narrow Shun' would be great too!
Note that I do keep one Global knife. They are 'good' but IMO dull and pit sooner than most in same/similar price range.
can you use the global whetstone 100/240 to sharpen these knives?
you can, but totally pointless… the molecular structure of the steel used in these is finer than average joe steel, thus you can sharpen them to a finer edge using finer grit at a wilder angle… think 1000 > 3000 > 6000 grit staged honing
You will need a ceramic sharperner in lieu of steel. I got gifted mine for a bday, very good knives.
Think you're talking about a ceramic honing steel, which does not sharpen. This conversation is about whetstones, for sharpening
@Gonltruck: I agree. (Though not a fan of wet stoning). I'd go as far as saying 'honing' with a steel is almost pointless.
HOWEVER each to their own! On the other hand, keeping an *abrasive/sharpening steel is handy for quick touch ups. I admire the patience of people who chose to use wet stones. Kind of a 'Zen' thing IMO.
I actually agree with OP. These three knife shapes, in that material (VG-Max HRC61) is all you need… and easily shits on Globals.
To those of you who have been waiting on a knife set, try these.. then I dare you to try your mates Globals after…
I agree that Shun knives are far superior than Global knives. But let’s not forget that Shun knives are significantly more expensive than Globals. This is great deal tho.
Its rudimentary maths at the end of the day, pay X amount for 3 good quality knives, with a good size variation between the 3 to cover the majority of home kitchen needs (and you'd know easier which is most appropriate for the task)
OR
Pay same X amount distributed over 6 knives of slightly lesser quality with a slighter variation in knife sizes between the 6 pieces, and user choice is 'looser' when it comes to picking the 'appropriate' knife for the task
I would go for the set of 3 in that comparison. But Global do come in sets of 3 comparable in size and variation to OPs post. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Global-3-PIECE-Oriental-Knife-Se… for example can be had for $90 plus delivery. Is the Shun set really worth 2.5 times the price of the Global. It boils down to budget to me.
@Phil22: I'll present it this way, your average joe standard cheap set is in the vicinity of 52HRC (cough Baccarat id3 = HRC53, Furi = 52HRC), like the ALDI crofton stainless 5piece for $20ish (HRC50-52).
Literally all Global knife owners (HRC56-58, depending on set, base metal is HRC57, manufacturing process could add +-1HRC) would say those 4pts difference is night and day.
So take it from the few owners who own a knife that is rated HRC60-62, those 4pts of difference is night and day to your Globals/Wusthoffs
The price point for this 3pc deal actually represented the perfect opportunity to upgrade to higher quality, for a price most users were already willing to pay for Global set
@dsp26: As I've said, Shun knives are far superior to Global knives. I'd even agree with you that the difference is 'night and day', but as it should be because the price difference is also night and day. You get what you pay for. So I think to say that Shun knives 'shits on Global' knives is a somewhat unfair statement to make. You are paying 2.5 times as much for the Shun set, so I sure hope that they shit on the Global set (as linked above).
I do concur that those looking to purchase Global knife block set should opt for a Shun 3 piece set instead. But the question of whether to purchase a Shun 3 piece set over a Global 3 piece set is a question of one's budget.
I also don't believe that HRC score is the only indicator of quality. Iplau provides a detailed explanation of this above.
@Phil22: Depends if you're ultimately and primarily looking at it from a price standpoint.
I was debating purely from the original context of a static price range (sub-$300) which, in recent OzB deals is ultimately this 3pc set versus Global 7/6/5pc sets.
IF I was shopping primarily on price, and I had $100 to spend, then the 3pc set you linked is a great buy, and should probably be posted as a separate deal because the 3 sizes in it would cover most kitchen needs versus having to fork out sub-$300 for the 7/6/5pc.
IF a non-Chinese made VG10 180mm Santoku or Gyuto could be had for close to $100 I would pick that over the $100 3pc globals and get a smaller $5 knife from Daiso to fill that need
EDIT
Totally agree with Iplau's comments. Hence I would also never rate the Chinese made (XyJ brand) Japanese style VG10 knives on Ali and eBay, because they would not have gone through the same hammer forging process.. hence they even quote their VG10 as +-2HRC variation, thus realistically closer to HRC58… for a VG10…
Knife block sets typically include a whole bunch of knives you'll never use.
I have a few Yaxell knives (some Shun and a Ran) along with Kasumi.
All I really need to get by is a good paring knife and a chef's knife.
Anything else from there will be up to what type of cooking you do.
You forgot to prefix your comment with, 'I'm a chef'.
I like to think so at home, but no.. fulltime profession is digital in fintech
Wasn't having a go at you.
Last time global discount happened, all the chef here got offended I said not all global's knives are the same.. every responses started with, I'm a chef. :)
Hang on, you get lifetime free sharpening with Shun knife right?
Correct just pay shipping to them.
The classic range has lifetime warranty where as their basic sora range has 5years (i think).
Also if they deem that the knife cannot be sharpened back to factory sharpness they will simply replace it with a new one.
Where do they get shipped to? ie how long will I be knifeless?
Sydney i believe is where their service center is.
@lplau: Not according to what I'd heard… I heard you need to send to Perth but happy should anyone be able to clarify…
@[Deactivated]: You send them here:
HALE IMPORTS PTY LTD REPLY PAID 88366 4/19 RODBOROUGH ROAD, FRENCHS FOREST, NSW 2086
Web pages with instructions:
https://shunaustralia.com.au/shun-australia-sharpening-servi…
Pay only $19.90 which covers shipping there and back. So if you bundle in a few knives it is worth it and guarantees sharpening to factory specifications. If you bring it to a private sharpener place they will easily charge you double that price or more for 1 knife.
if only these could be tax deductable..
You can if you are in the right industry and profession
hitman?
Any tips for daily maintenance? I have no problem about their quality but I'm just worried that I might screw them up for inappropriate care taken.
Japanese edge = more brittle that german/others so they aren't made for hard surfaces (glass/marble chopping surfaces) or bones. The can be prone to small chips if not careful. Always hand wash and dry after use. Get then sharpened once a year. I'm sure some knife pros on here have better advice…
Once a year? OMG that's unbelievable! I have to sharpen the knife for my wife twice a month!
I use a honing steel between uses and have an end-grain chopping board which helps. And I am OCD with them.
@Tock: How long does a honing steel last? I have a 10 year old honing steel which kinda feels like not doing much to the knife.
If you've never used a honing rod I'd suggest strop them with leather regularly, then take advantage for the free sharpening service annually.
@tonydav: Thx for the tip mate. Think I'll need to think about it - when you want to buy such a high quality knife but not sure if you can take care of it.
@WayneOZ: I've stopped honing since stropping. Always razor sharp now. We use two knives only, and regularly. I had to touch up one after a year very lightly with ceramic stones. I probably strop every two days, just lightly 8 strokes each side. I test sharpness at intervals along the blade with my thumb nail. One is a reasonable knive (Wüsthof) the other is a very cheap knife but great ergos and blade geometry - I found it in a garden :)
There is nothing wrong with sharpening your knives twice a month. In the industry it is referred to as 'edge maintenance.
Better Chef's will do their edge maintenance this much and more. Also, better Chefs will have their knives professionally sharpened so as to put the 'taper' back into the edge. Then the cycle simply repeats. Butchers also and for example… many do their edge maintenance DAILY. And believe me, cutting meat all day… they learn fast as to what is needed.
As above, because of the grade of metal, they are generally honed to a narrow angle (ie, 8-12 degrees), therefore thinner at the cutting point and prone to chip if used inappropriately because of the hard metal + thin edge combo.
Just make sure you dry them after wash as VG metals are "Corrosion Resistant" instead of being a true stainless. This is also why damascus designs use a VG10 core, and a VG1 cladding multi-layer on the outside to achieve near stainless qualities
Thanks for the explanation. I never know about these lying between knife and chopping board!
Oh.. and wooden chopping board, I personally avoid glass/stone also when whipping out the good knife set, but again, overkill for most, but at least it stays sharper longer and food prep less frustrating for those unexpected nights with short time
@dsp26: Well said. I'd add… one should ONLY JUST cut through the FOOD. You need to learn to ONLY just cut through the food, especially if you've just sharpened, or had your knives sharpened. I've seen bread boards that have seriously DEEP cuts in them! Great way to dull a super sharp knife in a heartbeat IMO.
@[Deactivated]: Thats exactly the thing.. a sharp knife allows one to do exactly as you describe effortlessly.
I think the other thing with poorer steels is that, the rate of blunting becomes somewhat exponential. Xase in point, a butter nut pumpkin.. with a freshly sharpened knife can easily do as you describe, at some point of bluntness, my wife will manage to make a cut, but will have to lean on the blunt part to cut through, which ends up impacting the cutting board
@dsp26: Interesting and very relative example ds'. I feel sorry for those who have to cut hard veggies such as pumpkin over and over. I rather use an axe! Best way around it I know of… leverage/fulcrum with a LONG knife. Point down on table so as to 'guillotine' downwards. I'm all ears if anyone know of a better way!
Exponential blunting… yes, a very good way to put it.
Love my Shuns - they stay super sharp (I use their honing steel once a week), and are great in the hand. I get them professionally sharpened once every 12 months.
professionally sharpened'
Is there a gild of knife sharpers?
There actually are guilds. But I obviously mean I don't sharpen them myself, I get someone who does it for (at least part) of their living (often called a profession). =P
Bless you Tock. :O)
I always use mine on wooden chopping boards.
Maybe I should avoid iron chopping boards from now on
I'm actually sure this actual deal is actually good.