Ford Fiesta Timing Belt Broke 45,000 Km before It Was Due to Be Replaced - Ford Hitting Me up for Repairs

Flying Ace on 16/06/2020 - 07:55
Last edited 16/06/2020 - 13:45 by 1 other user

I purchased my Fiesta S brand new from a dealership in 2015. The car was regularly serviced with my mechanic as per the vehicle logbook.

About 6 weeks ago the engine cut out after making a rattling sound and wouldn't start again.

It was towed to my mechanic who diagnosed it as a broken timing belt. Even though it was out of warranty, the timing belt was not due to be changed until 150,000km - my vehicle had travelled 105,000km. I got in touch with Ford head office who got me to have the car towed to the local dealership (where I purchased the vehicle).

The dealership diagnosed the issue as the teeth that drive the timing belt have worn away due to "incorrect oil or oil not being changed". The car needs a new engine. They got me to submit my receipts from the mechanic to them so they could see that it was serviced correctly with the correct oil.

My mechanic is old school (our family has been going to him for years), and hand writes receipts in an invoice book.

The dealership have come back to me and are vaguely accusing me of forging receipts ("anybody could have written them"), they want nice typed receipts from accounting software, and the response from Ford corporate is for them to pay 25% of the new engine cost, and me 75% - my out of pocket expenses would be around $6500.

I'm not accepting this outcome as I have receipts to prove the oil used was correct and was changed as per the servicing schedule, just because they're hand written from my mechanic shouldn't have any bearing on the outcome - written receipts from an invoice book are still legal and valid receipts. My mechanic still has the duplicate copy in his invoice books.

I don't know where to go from here as I feel I am being given a raw deal due to handwritten receipts!

Any advice?

TLDR: Timing belt broke 45,000km before it should have, dealership saying it's because "wrong oil or oil not changed". Oil was correct and was changed. Dealership don't like the mechanic's handwritten receipts and are now saying I am liable for 75% of the cost of a new engine.

Edit: My case manager at Ford has been very helpful and understanding, I just feel like the dealership (who have been terrible!) is giving Ford incorrect information and is hindering my chance at a fair response.

Automotive

Comments

    • HelpMeiCantSee on 17/06/2020 - 08:25
      +2

      Wrong forum mate, people here advocate for consumer rights and decency. Not the manufacturers right to palm of issues which they, by law, have to resolve. Fit for purpose mean anything to you?

      If he complied with time and date requirements, as well as service schedule and quality, Ford have no recourse but to fix their equipment failure.

  • TEER3X on 16/06/2020 - 12:08

    What about going to ACA?

  • Porker on 16/06/2020 - 12:23
    +6

    How are you sure your mechanic changed the oil or used the correct oil?

    A hand-written or other receipt doesn't prove that the new oil and/or correct oil was placed in the car. I've been on the receiving end of receipts that weren't accurate (eg. at shops, at mechanics, restaurants etc). I'm just exploring how you know for a fact that Ford is wrong in their diagnosis.

    There are at least two variables here that I'm not sure have been established - did the mechanic do the correct job? did Ford perform a correct assessment? Unless one is proven as certain, it's too easy to bounce responsibility to the other.

    • MS Paint on 16/06/2020 - 12:48
      +4

      My mechanic is old school

      Probably adding Dino 20w50 to every car he services because that's what he's always used.

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 17/06/2020 - 08:28

        Ain’t nothing wrong with 20/50 or 15/40. Universal oils :)

        • superuser on 17/06/2020 - 13:40

          wait a minute, do you use "thic" oil even with brand new car?

    • Flying Ace on 16/06/2020 - 13:11
      +7

      He has the electronic system where he puts in the car rego and it tells you all the information about servicing etc.

      He is very highly regarded and a lot of performance car enthusiasts take their vehicles to him because of his expertise. I have no reason to believe he is being dishonest as we have been going to home for years and is one of the most honest people I know - he would never screw you over for the sake of a few bucks on oil. He showed me on his system which oil he used.

      A hand-written or other receipt doesn't prove that the new oil and/or correct oil was placed in the car.

      What else can I get that proves the correct oil was used?

      • whooah1979 on 16/06/2020 - 13:42
        +4

        A stat dec.

        • 82norm on 17/06/2020 - 12:48

          And no one ever lies in a stat dec😆

      • mrvaluepack on 16/06/2020 - 15:35
        +4

        Oil sampling by testing company. Easy to do.

        • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 16:54

          Doesn't prove that it wasn't incorrect in the past. Also I wouldn't pay for that as the customer in this case, Ford should/

          • Jackson on 16/06/2020 - 22:32
            +1

            @Zephyrus: It doesn't cost much, and as if you would trust ford to do it, if they did and the result came back it was something else, you'd be doing your own anyway

            • Zachary on 18/06/2020 - 20:34

              @Jackson: maybe they already did and that's how they came to the conclusion OP was running wrong oil….?

  • highon2str on 16/06/2020 - 14:15
    +4

    Without proper evidence (not just someone, or a receipt, or even a stat dec saying something was done), there are way too many variables as others have suggested - may or may not have the right oil in it, how regular were service intervals etc. Your word against mine and all that.

    The logical thing anyone can do right now is to work on evidence and facts that we know for sure.

    • car has broken down
    • car is out of manufacturer's warranty
    • car has not been serviced at a franchised dealer
    • manufacturer has no internal records of car service history
    • manufacturer has now offered a good-will 25% subsidy of repair

    I would still consider that a good/fair result - Don't get me wrong, the situation is unfortunate, I totally get your anguish that your 5 yr old car has broken down. (Do you have an insurance policy by any chance that you can claim against?)

    You may also want to find out a bit more about the diagnosis and possible repair options for your car. Did they have a look (with a bore-scope perhaps) down each cylinder to inspect the piston crowns? Pistons are often a lot more durable than valves so what you end up with are bent valves and possibly cylinder head damage. When this happens you can often re-condition or replace just the cylinder head itself, instead of the entire engine. Even if the pistons need replacing it can still work out cheaper replacing them than an entire engine.

    Your other option is to potentially get it towed to a head specialist (speak to them first!) who does this sort of thing on a regular basis and knows what they're doing. Ring up a few places and get quotes. Weigh up the option of paying 6.5k @ Ford or (e.g. 4-5k) somewhere else. Dealers quote engine swaps because they are less labour intensive and are easier.

    In the meantime hopefully your case manager comes back to you with a better result.

    • Logical on 16/06/2020 - 18:34
      -1

      The evidence you noted is solid and hence why servicing a new car at the same dealership you bought it at provides for peace of mind. Maybe OP's family mechanic should chip in another 25%.

      • TEER3X on 16/06/2020 - 19:15
        +4

        what's the law though? I know overseas in the US, you don't have to service at a dealership to maintain the warranty.

        here it might just be that the mechanic/shop needs to be "authorised"

        • highon2str on 16/06/2020 - 19:47
          +4

          @TEER3X, in aus you don't have to service your vehicle at a franchised dealer to maintain the warranty, although if you do, it does make it hell of a lot easier in some cases (like OP's case), to make a warranty claim.

          In OP's case his vehicle is out of warranty. If he had a full dealership service history, he would have had a much easier time getting a better good-will warranty repair from the manufacturer (Ford). Dealerships can put these good-will claims through (with copies of the service book) and the manufacturer then decides (based on the service book history, age of car, kms, type of repair etc) how much they will cover the repair.

          For something like a $900 window regulator and motor repair (your window is stuck halfway and won't go up), it is not uncommon for manufacturers to cover 100% parts and 100% labour under good-will if you are one or two years out of warranty.

          • Jackson on 16/06/2020 - 22:38
            +8

            @highon2str: While this might be true, this is a bullsh!t circumstance that is created by the dealer as a recalcitrant way of making your absolute right as an Australian motorist, which is to take your care to any qualified mechanic, something of a liability. The extremely high likelihood is that this ford is just a POS and failed, and they just don't want to pay for it, so they blame OP, and when OP shows he did the right thing they blame the next guy. They are just making his life difficult. If he gets a stat dec from the mechanic, they will probably blame him for using Gulf Western and not Mobil.

            He needs to stick to his guns and the law, which is that his car failed despite correct maintenance. After all why don't you ever see Toyotas being talked about in this way on here?

          • spackbace on 17/06/2020 - 03:05
            +1

            @highon2str: I do have to agree with this just on case examples I've witnessed. 1 being a CX5 which blew the turbo (common issue) and was replaced outside warranty as it had dealership servicing (not through any official recall).

            Toyota's new 2yr extension on the drive train and engine require the car to have used genuine parts. No requirement to dealership service, but to make sure the car was serviced correctly.

            Sorry but sure for 99% of the time your car will run fine regardless of who services it, but if you're stung by that 1% failure, you better hope you've got some recourse.

          • Krankite on 17/06/2020 - 09:41
            +3

            @highon2str: He is not after a "Good Will" warranty repair, he is after one under the ACLs requirements for a minimum warranty. The service book states that the timing belt has a lifetime of 150,000km but it only lasted 100,00km therefore it is covered under warranty.

            Even if they tried to argue a pro-rata they would be up for 66% of costs.

            • whooah1979 on 17/06/2020 - 10:12
              +4

              @Krankite:

              The service book states that the timing belt has a lifetime of 150,000km

              The service book doesn't state that the timing belt has a 150000km lifetime.

              The exact wording in our logbook is:

              150,000 km or 90-month service (which occurs first)
              Maintenance for normal operating conditions
              Replace timing belt

              • Krankite on 17/06/2020 - 11:04
                +6

                @whooah1979: Sorry, Op had previously stated only the 150,000km.

                The 90 months works out to be 7.5 years so it should still have had a third of its life left regardless of which metric you use.

                • whooah1979 on 17/06/2020 - 16:00

                  @Krankite: One of our vehicles is more than ten years old but low mileage (<150000km) compared to its age. We don't expect the dealer to replace the timing belt for free in another ten years time just because it hasn't travelled 150000km.

          • 91rs on 17/06/2020 - 11:50

            @highon2str: While it can help, I've had enough arguments with service departments who were trying to refuse warranty on items that had failed during warranty period of vehicles I've had to know most of the time going to those difficult dealerships aren't worth the hassle or premium as once the sale has been made you're on your own.

            These were dealer maintained under warranty vehicles they were trying to dodge the work on, then later in the year to get sales cold calls trying to say how valued I was as a customer and if I was looking to upgrade or change cars etc.

      • highon2str on 16/06/2020 - 19:37
        +1

        @Logical you're not wrong! I have always recommended family and friends who buy new cars to service at dealerships. The amount of money that you save going to an independent is not worth saving in most cases. A lot of the time the difference is almost negligible. Modern cars with all the bells and whistles need to be kept up to date with the latest software and service bulletins which most independents will not have access to. (Not forgetting all the factory training that dealership technicians get put through)

        It isn't necessary to go back to the same dealership the car was sold, as long as you get it serviced at a franchised dealer within the group. i.e. if you bought the car at Knox Ford you can still get it serviced at Berwick Ford with no 'penalty'.

        • ekul777 on 16/06/2020 - 21:15
          +17

          This isn't true at all. Going back to the dealer ship is not required.
          You're protected by consumer law that you can chose where to take your car as long as a manufactures handbook service is done.

        • giles on 16/06/2020 - 22:00
          +5

          A lot of the time the difference is almost negligible

          What does this mean… what figure do you consider a negligible difference in the context of a car service? (And then what is ‘almost negligible’?)

          • highon2str on 16/06/2020 - 22:10

            @giles: Factoring in the mix of minor/major services, say you pay an average of $100 more per annual service at a dealer for say an average warranty lifespan of 5 years. That's $500 more you would have spent for the added peace of mind/insurance against anything going wrong, even if you don't think there is a difference in quality between independent and dealer. You get arguably better resale value too when or if you do decide to sell.

            • Mrgreenz on 17/06/2020 - 09:23
              +4

              @highon2str: You think 5years of dealer servicing vs independent would amount to $500?

              • Matt P on 17/06/2020 - 14:28

                @Mrgreenz: This would depend on the brand of the car

    • foxpants on 17/06/2020 - 14:50
      +6

      @highon2str The evidence looks more like this from what I'm reading.

      • car has broken down, direct cause: timing belt failed well before it was due for replacement according the the manufacturers service schedule
      • car is out of manufacturer's warranty, but consumer guarantees still cover the reasonable durability of such items
      • car has been serviced exactly according the the manufacturer service schedule which the consumer can prove and totally fulfills his end of the service 'agreement'
      • manufacturer has reasonable access to full car service history
      • manufacturer has now low-balled 25% subsidy of repair to try and get rid of the customer

      While I can agree that if you kept to dealer servicing, he would probably be an easier time right now, at least they wouldn't be able to try and wriggle out of it by assuming the wrong oil was used, but I've heard of many tricks in their playbook, for example implying the car was misused etc. I take your points as one way to look at it, but it certainly isn't the only way and a totally black and white set of facts stated so simply.

      So on this matter, F*** the manufacturer and their tactics. If OP fights this he stands an exceptionally good chance of it being repaired at either no cost or a drastically reduced percentage compared to the current 75%. With the obvious caveat that there is always the chance that we haven't been told the whole truth.

      my 2c

    • Herbse on 16/06/2020 - 15:25
      +2

      You'll find horror stories for any make and any model. There's no such thing as a completely reliable make of car, or anything for that matter.

        • nephilim on 16/06/2020 - 19:49

          To be truthful, there beleno doesn’t have a bunch of features the Aussie one has..

    • D C on 16/06/2020 - 18:54

      in a hot climate is a fair life for a belt.

      Yeah but these ones are oil cooled.

        • munecito on 17/06/2020 - 07:59
          +1

          The belts in these cars are oil cooled. Have a look at the video posted further up

        • D C on 17/06/2020 - 09:31

          As @munecito said: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8864217/redir

          And again, wtf?

            • D C on 17/06/2020 - 09:39
              -1

              @Freshisbest: Nah, not that old.

              You don't do engines, do you. The "yeah but oil cooled" is a joke, and using a belt instead of a chain INSIDE the engine is just bizarre.

              Roll on electric.

                • D C on 17/06/2020 - 21:25
                  +1

                  @Freshisbest:

                  Ford designed this to fail?

                  Don't they always? And as @OP is complaining it's broken, I'd say they were successful.

    • brendanm on 16/06/2020 - 20:01
      +2

      Pretty sure the time interval is 10 years.

  • Herbse on 16/06/2020 - 14:41
    +2

    A part that's due to be replaced at a certain point in the cars life is dependent on how the car is treated and if it's been serviced properly. The fact that it was "not due for a replacement yet", doesn't overwrite the warranty requirements or require the dealership to take ownership of the fault, the replacement time is a guide, it could happen at any time given various circumstances.

    I'm surprised the dealer is offering to pay anything considering the car is out of warranty, wasn't taken to the dealership, don't have official receipts and thus the dealer has no history about the car or how often it's been serviced, if there were signs the belt was on its way out and it was ignored and other problems.

    What's been offered is out of good faith more than any legal requirement, and anything more you get from them will be due to squeaky wheel getting the grease. Which many companies do now because of social media outrage and online reviews which damage the brand.

    • TEER3X on 16/06/2020 - 19:17

      My thinking is along the same lines, I am a little surprised about this thread but would be happy to see a positive outcome for the OP. It would also open up my eyes a little as I would've had no clue the onus would be on anyone but the owner at this point.

  • Drj55 on 16/06/2020 - 15:17
    -2

    I'd push hard for 50/50 but I doubt you will get better than that.

  • mrvaluepack on 16/06/2020 - 15:40

    That 150k km statement is just a ballpark figure. It was most probably calculated using the mean time to/between failure (MTTF/MTBF) from a sample size of the same belts. Saying that the belt WILL or MUST last at least 150k km is bit of a stretch. The engineers who wrote the maintenance manual probably calculated that 99.95% of belts will last at least 150k kms. Your belt might have been the 0.05%. Bad luck.

    • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 16:56
      +2

      Service life != MTBF. Conflating the two is a rookie mistake, completely unrelated numbers.

      • mrvaluepack on 16/06/2020 - 16:59

        Op says its the belt replacement timing not service life.

        • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 17:08

          That would be based on the service life. Think about it, a Soyuz rocket has a very high MTBF (it's very reliable) but a very short service life of only a few hours. Service life and MTBF are very very different things.

          • mrvaluepack on 16/06/2020 - 17:17

            @Zephyrus: I was referring to the MTBF of the belt not the entire car!

            • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 17:25

              @mrvaluepack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_life

              Have a read of that article. If you're claiming that MTBF is the same as service life for timing belts, I'd love to hear how you think they don't wear out.

              • mrvaluepack on 16/06/2020 - 19:08

                @Zephyrus: A product's service life is its period of use in service. It is mostly used in non-technical context, and has no scientific support or meaning.

                • Zephyrus on 16/06/2020 - 21:49

                  @mrvaluepack: Yeah, but the service life is what Ford is stating. Saying they determined it by using an MTBF is incorrect, unless you're suggesting Ford used a radically incorrect method of determining replacement intervals, seeming as we can both agree, timing belts wear out.

  • sheepzpal on 16/06/2020 - 16:21
    -2

    I hate Fords

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 18/06/2020 - 09:07

      Fix Or Repair Daily.

      Road side mechanic told me that one when he came by 40km outside Cradle Mountain, Tasmania to fix my rental Ford when it died.

  • JetBombat on 16/06/2020 - 19:17
    +4

    Sorry to hear about your problems OP. Where did you get the timing belt maintenance schedule? I looked around and found some bits of info here that makes me think there is a known issue that belts can expire quicker than 150k:

    Ford Fiesta routine maintenance guide (2013 to 2017 models)
    Every 100,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first
    Adjust the valve clearances
    Renew the auxiliary drivebelt – 1.25 and 1.6 litre engines
    Renew the timing belt, tensioner and idlers – 1.0 litre engines
    Note: Although the normal interval for timing belt renewal is 150,000 miles or 10 years, it is strongly recommended that the interval suggested above is observed, especially on cars which are subjected to intensive use, ie, mainly short journeys or a lot of stop-start driving. The actual belt renewal interval is very much up to the individual owner, but bear in mind that severe engine damage will result if the belt breaks.

    Might be further confirmed by this comment that something is going on there:

    Friend at work just had his timing chain replaced on his f150 ecoboost. 80,000 km and the chain had stretched causing the engine to have errors and go into limp mode. was covered under warranty. He asked if they had put an updated chain in to replace the faulty model, and they told him its the same model that had originally stretched. So I guess he's screwed when it hits 160,000km and he's out of warranty…

    Also going by this class action might be worth reaching out to their "an independent complaints review program" and mentioning ACCC if you don't get across quickly enough. It might be for a different problem, but people in that department should be trained to solve customer issues quickly and keen to help. Complaints Deps usually have fairly different goals from dealers or sales with straight customer satisfaction metrics.

    • Spic3y on 16/06/2020 - 22:08
      +1

      I was working at a Holden dealership when the TS Astras kept breaking belts around 90-100,000kms, before their 120,000km scheduled replacement. So we just started putting stickers in the manuals to replace them at 60,000kms instead… That fixed the issue!..

    • Speckled Jim on 17/06/2020 - 12:37
      +1

      belts can expire quicker than 150k:

      Every 100,000 miles or 8 years, whichever comes first

      You are aware that 100,000 miles is nearly 161,000 kms, aren't you?

      And the chain tensioner issue for…an F150 truck? Not relevant to the discussion, as the Fiesta uses a lubed belt. Ecoboost is their idea of clever branding for the most efficient engines for each platform.

      I mean, you may as well bring up the Powershit transmission or Stang/RS head gaskets too.

      Edit: Checked your last link. I see you did drag the transmission into it. Why, when OP didn't have that problem? Ford's recent failings are known quantities. No need to build a case against them with issues unrelated to this Fiesta.

  • THL on 16/06/2020 - 19:26
    +8

    Looks like they should change their slogan from 'Go Further' to 'Go No Further than 100k'.

  • taoz on 16/06/2020 - 19:45
    +3

    Push Ford head office.
    If the car was serviced correctly, the should cover it. Paper or computer print, absolute rubbish they need it on computer, there is no law states that. If you paid bank transfer to mechanic you will have proof of date. you can forge a computer document just as easy if need be. They are typical tactics to get you to pay for it.
    Ford will pay the dealer to fix it. Do not waste time with the dealer.

  • This Guy on 16/06/2020 - 20:58
    +7

    My case manager at Ford has been very helpful and understanding, I just feel like the dealership (who have been terrible!) is giving Ford incorrect information and is hindering my chance at a fair response.

    Your case manager at Ford is a lying snake. Either Ford has authorised the warranty repairs or they haven't. For the dealership to only offer a 25% discount, they haven't.

    Write a polite email outlining your complain, the dealership's response so far and what you want. Address it 'Dear Dealer Principle, General Manager and Service Manager'. Send it to the dealership's reception email (available on the dealer's website). Ask for an acknowledgement of the email with in 24 hours and a written plan of action with in 5 business days. Let them know your next course of action for non compliance is your state or territory's consumer tribunal.

    If they don't agree to either a free repair, a buy back of the faulty vehicle (at close to what you paid) or something similar, in writting with in your specified time, make a complaint with your state's consumer tribunal.

    The day of your hearing, bring 3x signed copies of your mechanic's report (I, the mechanic at this company serviced this car, make model rego as per manufacturers log book, here are the dates as per my records) or better yet your mechanic (you might have to pay them a few hundred for the hour or two of their time).

    If you are nice and you don't don't have enough evidence the magistrate will often tell you exactly what they want to rule in your favour. They generally hate businesses that waste their time with dodgy rubbish like this.

    This is literally a five minute call by the service manager to Ford's to get authorisation. Ford's ticket system is stupidly simple. But the dealership generally won't reply until just before your deadline because they don't have to and it makes their claim of really going to bat for you sound more credible.

  • This Guy on 16/06/2020 - 21:01
    +1

    dealership saying it's because "wrong oil or oil not changed".

    See if you can get that is writing. Wrong oil and not changing the oil will damage an engine in very different ways. Their answer is complete bullshit.

  • mezje on 16/06/2020 - 21:02

    Incorrect oil for a timing belt, is that really the best they could come up with?

    • munecito on 17/06/2020 - 08:07
      +1

      In this case yes as the timing belt is in contact with oil by design.

      But if The mechanic can provide at least certified copies of the receipts in his books the whole handmade receipts issue should go away.

      • mezje on 17/06/2020 - 08:51

        Oh wow ive been schooled! Are they actually? What's the life on them, cant imagine the oil goes well with rubber….

  • neosin on 16/06/2020 - 22:10
    +5

    This is the exact reason i service at the dealer every year since I got my new car.

    Anything goes wrong even after warranty period you can make a strong argument that their own people have been responsible for all the work done on it.

    The savings from a private mechanic is not worth it imo.

    • Flying Ace on 17/06/2020 - 07:38
      +1

      Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

      In future if I do purchase a new car it will be serviced at the dealership. This was my first new car, and it had been great with not a single thing going wrong in the preceding 5 years.

      • Herbse on 17/06/2020 - 20:18
        +2

        Best thing you've said in here.

        IMO stick with the dealer for the first 10 years or until it gets close to 200,000 kms

        At this point there's obviously no warranty, and there's nothing the dealer would take responsibility for. But also taking a car to the dealership increases the cars value because of the types of problems you're having, and once a car gets close to 200k and you haven't sold it, the value drops dramatically and just not worth the cost of dealership services.

  • Cluster on 16/06/2020 - 22:31
    +11

    Here is my broken timing chain example with a Mercedes A-Class. It was long ago, but it shows how the case should have been handled.

    • My W168 A-Class develops random slightly uneven idling about 9 months out of warranty at 60,000km. I take it to the dealership where the car was always serviced. They diagnosed a kink in the timing chain and recommended a replacement. They let me take the car home.

    • Three days later the chain breaks. Car dies and is towed to dealership. Engine is destroyed and needs a complete rebuild.

    • Car spends a whole month at the dealership. I visit twice to check on the progress. I see the cylinder head with bent valves, piston damage. The head is coated green, meaning it completely ruptured and let coolant into the engine.

    • Two weeks later I get a call from the dealership saying the car is rebuilt and ready to go. I shudder at the monster bill I'm about to receive. "No charge" was the response. Mercedes extended the warranty and paid for the repair. Now THAT is customer service.

    I haven't bought a Mercedes since (The A-Class was a POS, quality wise in general), but the service I received was absolutely stellar.

    2015 Fiesta is not that far out of warranty. It's a standard excuse from a dodgy dealer/car company to use one of these excuses when something goes wrong:

    1. You're doing it wrong
    2. It's your fault
    3. They're all like that

    I suggest the onus is on Ford to PROVE the wrong oil was used. No hand waving and saying 'wrong oil, lol!' when they could have pulled that excuse out of you know where.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/02/2022 - 01:30

      Well… Can be tough to be the manufacturer sometimes, when cars are not serviced at the dealership…

      I dont doubt the genuine case put forward by OP… However, there are many dodgy ones out there too…

      Your A being serviced at the dealership is the key… Outcome might be different had it always been serviced at habib's backyard turbo automotive…

      Just saying… Pointing out difficult position the manufacturers can be in from time to time.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 17/06/2020 - 05:53

    Timing belt broke 45,000km before it should have

    This isn't correct. It is recommended to be replaced at 150,000 km. They will have used this number based on testing, it is more likely to fail after this number.

  • wiipantz on 17/06/2020 - 07:46
    +2

    The engine and car is sounding like another Ford KA(1.0 ecoboost ect), it's a terrible lemon and Ford know it and the dealership is not your friend. Not for selling you it and not for now trying to stiff you, sounds like you got good advice to stick with the Ford rep and stick to your consumer rights. Hopefully get it repaired or better yet get fair compensation and buy a different vehicle I would suggest :/

  • bangzzz on 17/06/2020 - 09:37
    +2

    Wait wait wait… you mean to tell me that on a 2015 Ford Fiesta… the Engine lasted LONGER than the transmission?!?? I'm impressed.

    • Speckled Jim on 17/06/2020 - 12:57

      Manual.
      Manuel, there is too much butter on those trays.

  • asafasr on 17/06/2020 - 10:18

    Are you sure your “old school” mechanic used the correct weight/spec oil?
    I know a lot of old school mechanics who refuse to use the correct spec oil and just dump in whatever is cheapest.

  • bazingaa on 17/06/2020 - 11:19
    +1

    Is it a interference engine? If not you don't need to rebuild the engine. Check with wreckers for a cheap engine and fitting if possible

    • 91rs on 17/06/2020 - 11:52
      +1

      Yep if it goes south with Ford find a wrecker with one and get your mechanic to have it delivered to his workshop, have him do a full service on all the bits* and put it in your car.
      Probably half the cost of what you've been quoted I'g guess.

      *belts, oils, pulleys, plugs, anything thats wear and tear.

      • smashman42 on 17/06/2020 - 15:42

        +1 to the wrecker motor if you get screwed idea.

        It's an Ecoboost so maybe replace the turbo too? 100k is where most turbos used to start squealing back in the day (my knowledge here is way out of date I admit). At the very least I'd keep the one off the current rooted engine too as a spare - they're probably designed to be replaced outright and not have their bearings rebuilt these days too. I mean the timing belt is in oil here FFS, so if there's a stupid design decision to be made, Ford would have made it!

  • DiscoJango on 17/06/2020 - 12:15
    +1

    Ford's have always been cheap and nasty, stay away.

  • jzx100 on 17/06/2020 - 14:46
    +1

    Irrelevant to your issue but older Toyota timing belts are MADE TO LAST 200,000kms but they still ask you to change them at 100,000kms, was told by a long serving specialist Toyota mechanic.

  • wallet72 on 17/06/2020 - 16:01
    +2

    For those of us at home, running out of popcorn…

    OP, we need an update!!!!

    :)

  • [Deactivated] on 17/06/2020 - 17:52
    +2

    I always had my car serviced at Ford due to the Transmission issues. I only had my last service aka mobile, due to working 7 days I wasn't able too. My current, another minor service I'll do myself but i'm replacing everything. My next major, will be at Ford even tho their rip offs. It's 7 years old, but people like the records in general.

    Ford currently is in court in Australia, it will be done around 6 weeks for the class action in-regards to the faulty transmissions.

  • payless69 on 17/06/2020 - 19:11

    This video should answer the question wheter the timing belt is oil lubricated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t908YJRebw
    If sold in the US they talk about a sealed in belt to last a lifetime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTgeV35g40

  • fantafox on 17/06/2020 - 19:16
    +1

    Try a 2012 focus with a power shift

  • arcticjuggernaut on 17/06/2020 - 19:40

    From Fords pov, it's not under warranty and while the belt is suggested to be replaced at a certain amount of km it doesn't negate the fact it could be worn early as they say due to poor maintenance. Did your mechanic check it for early signs of wear? It's your word against theirs, maybe your mechanic isn't as reliable as you think.

  • payless69 on 17/06/2020 - 19:43

    Haynes means: https://haynes.com/en-gb/tips-tutorials/ford-fiesta-routine-…
    note the 1l takes more oil to presumably lubricate the belt. What does the owners manual say?

  • piston3461 on 17/06/2020 - 19:47

    Should always get the dealership to service the car in the warranty years due to events like this

    • DiscoJango on 17/06/2020 - 22:00
      +1

      Why? A registered mechanic is every bit as qualified than the apprentice mechanic who services your car at ford. And easily half the price.

      • munecito on 18/06/2020 - 10:06

        Sad but true. Most times apprentices are the ones doing the work at dealerships and then they try to charge you again for jobs that aren't properly done.

        We had a front bearing job gone horribly wrong on the missus car a couple of years ago. The car failed leaving the dealership and they wanted to charge us again for the parts. I laughed.

        • kiitos on 18/06/2020 - 20:47
          +1

          I had my old Astra serviced at a Holden dealer, which included work on the wheels (can't remember the details).

          I drove off onto Pacific Highway and then realised the speedo wasn't working! Had to drive for a bit without knowing how fast I was actually going until I could turn off and return to the dealer.

          When I explained that the speedo was no longer working the guy did "we'll have a look, sometimes it can just stop working, so we may have to charge you to fix it".

          I was incredulous and pointed out that it was fine when I dropped it in, they did work on the wheels, and now it doesn't work.

          They fixed it in a short time, presumably they disconnected it and forgot to reconnect it, no admission of a mistake though.

      • piston3461 on 18/06/2020 - 12:42

        They’re just as qualified but the onus is on the dealer to get these problems sorted rather than you because you went to an independent .

        They have no idea what that mechanic did to his car.

  • johncgremley on 17/06/2020 - 23:01
    +3

    What better time to read about glass reinforced oil-bathed timing belts used in the Ford Ecoboost 1.0L engine? (https://www.ngfeurope.com/~/media/NGF%20Europe/Site%20Conten…)

    "with the durability to last the life of the engine*".

    *life of engine limited by belt durability.

  • HeWhoKnows on 17/06/2020 - 23:06
    -1

    Firstly a broken timing belt definitely can damage an engine

    Secondly this is a bit of a worry…
    "The dealership diagnosed the issue as the teeth that drive the timing belt have worn away due to "incorrect oil or oil not being changed"

    As the timing belt sits OUTSIDE the engine, no oil gets to it and it does not require lubrication hence the oil has little to do with the teeth wearing prematurely. In fact they shouldnt wear at all.

    Sounds to me like the opposite has happened. The motor has seized up first thus freezing the teethed timing belt drive which in turn broke the timing belt and stripped the teeth as well.

    And yes, if the wrong oil is used or not changed as scheduled this can be the result.

    Seems rather unusual though.

    • Flying Ace on 18/06/2020 - 07:25
      +1

      The timing belt in this particular engine (EcoBoost 1.0L) sits inside the engine and is lubricated by the engine oil.

  • PAPower on 17/06/2020 - 23:10
    +3

    My advice is to spend that 6k on a Toyota instead and forget about that dealer.

  • Flying Ace on 18/06/2020 - 07:27
    +6

    Thanks for all the responses! I didn't expect this to blow up the way it did. I'm glad to see the majority support me in my quest.

    I am still waiting for Ford Head Office to come back to me with a satisfactory outcome. In the meantime they're still paying for my loan car through Europcar and my car is still in pieces in the dealership.

    I'll update this thread when I get an update.

  • Killer Inc on 18/06/2020 - 10:37

    Firstly this may not be actual or factual advice, this is more of common sense/speaking from experience.

    Cambelt/timing belt average life span is around 80k-100k pending on make and models, if you buy a secondhand car, either under 100k on the odometer or over 100k odometer.

    The first question I would ask is when is the cam/timing belt is due to be replaced? or when was it replaced? This will give you a good indication if the owner or dealers looking for sell the car before major service includes cam belt replacement or selling it slightly below market value prior to changing the cambelt.

    After reading your current situation, your car over 100k on the odometer n manufacturer recommends the timing belt last up to 150k? I would have changed the belt well in advance to prevent this issue! Or your local garage should have raised it with you.

    lastly, you might be better off doing an engine swap instead of spending $6.5k.

  • sAmiZZle on 18/06/2020 - 17:58

    Can I just throw in a curve ball here. Typically timing belts, as per the dealer service/log book, need to be changed on either a service interval OR when a certain number of km's done on the vehicle (i.e. whichever comes first). Quite frequently, even if the service interval requires the timing belt to be changed, many take the option to delay the replacement of the timing belt until the vehicle has done the number of km's listed for it. Hopefully this was not the case in your matter?

  • Ss-ss on 18/06/2020 - 20:24

    If ford say the timing belt should be replaced at 150k then it’s usually good for 250k. It’s not something you check , you just get to 150k and get it replaced. Good luck I how all goes well. As you bought it new & it’s now out of warranty I would expect it fair that ford pays 75% of the cost

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