Hi guys,
I found this offer with flybuys: 10,000 points if you spend $50 in "in Liqourland" for 3 consecutive weeks. I don't want to be a hypocrite and I admit I ocassionally drink, in limit. However, do you think it is immoral to promote alcoholism? You can work it out, $50 is a lot of money per week for booze.
The bible says not to have Alcohol yet most christians drink like there's no tomorrow. Apparently, they mentioned wine in the new testament a few times so most Christians drink. i dont even know…
i dont even know…
See John 2:1–2:11 where Jesus turned water into wine.
Yeah, I still don't see where it says for all his followers to drink wine. Seems like he was just trying to prove a miracle and use wine as an example. Does it say Jesus drank wine too somewhere in the bible?
(i'm genuinely curious because i don't know).
The closest the bible gets to justifying alcohol is when Paul tells Timothy to take a little wine for medicinal purposes.
If you were to use the bible to base your decision as to whether or not to consume alcohol, you would not.
Have you seen the Rowan Atkinson's sketch…
Edit: For those who are easily offended, here's what a reverend had to say about it.
How is spending $50 a week promoting alcoholism? for some people that is a single bottle of wine or less than half a carton of beer. Just because you buy goon bags, passion pop and green ginger by the case and skull it down doesn't mean that is what normal people do. besides which I doubt someone with a serious alcohol problem is going to be thinking about flybuys points
How many boxes of wine can you get for $50?
at-least 7 cheap ones
Yeah like them goon bags
Goon is designed to last a month or two when opened. This is arguably anti-alcoholism because you don’t have to finish a bottle before it expires.
Alcohol is the biggest poison in the world. The fact that its legal blows my mind
Causes domestic violence, makes people act like idiots. Kills people, clogs up hospitals… etc and the list goes on
They need to start taxing it harder.
Australia has a bad drinking culture. people think you're an idiot when you tell them you don't drink
Alcohol itself is not the problem and not immoral. Jesus Christ himself drank alcohol, and it's been served (small amounts) in church communions ever since. Of course different religions have different attitudes to alcohol, but as religion is at heart a set of beliefs and rules for a moral life, it could hardly be immoral.
Where you are correct is with your last paragraph - the drinking culture of Australia (and to be fair, most 'western' democracies) is appalling. The idea is there is nothing wrong with getting drunk, that it's funny, harmless, acceptable and worst of all expected of everyone, is what's immoral. The negging of comments speaking out against alcohol is simply a symptom of that unfortunate culture…
Jesus Christ himself drank alcohol, and it's been served (small amounts) in church communions ever since.
Where in the bible does it say he drank wine? (i'm genuinely curious because i don't know).
Wine was drunk at the Passover. At the final Passover (Thursday night, known as the Last Supper) before the Crucifixion, Jesus said the following (Good News Bible version - other versions are worded slightly differently):
Matthew 26:29 (Good News Bible): I tell you, I will never again drink this wine until the day I drink the new wine with you in my Father's Kingdom.
Also Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18 for the same story.
Well before that, Jesus was comparing John the Baptist's reception by Jewish officials with his own:
Matthew 11:18 When John came, he fasted and drank no wine, and everyone said, 'He has a demon in him!'
Matthew 11:19 When the Son of Man came, he ate and drank, and everyone said, 'Look at this man! He is a glutton and wine drinker, a friend of tax collectors and other outcasts!'…"
At the wedding in Cana, when Jesus turned water into wine (John chapter 2), it is not stated whether he was drinking or not. It would have been customary to do so…
Yep, exactly. Drinking culture is appalling. Being an alcoholic tends to be more socially acceptable than it is to be someone who doesn't drink at all. I do not understand it at all.
And your example of the negging comments summarises it perfectly, I have upvoted both of you. People simply don't realise or don't want to acknowledge that alcohol is a problem in this country.
There's a difference between correlation and causation..
How ridiculous. $50 in a week for me would be 2, maybe 3 bottles of wine, and thats split between 2-3 people, me + wife + guests on Fri/Sat. (I'd recomend a Brokenwood Cab Sav and a 42'S Pinot.)
There are a lot of studies that indicate a glass, even every day, can provide a lot of health benefits. And the UK Chief Medical Officers low-risk drinking guidelines is something like 1.5 bottles per week per person.
As always, excess drinking in a single session is the real problem, and it probably says more about you that you'd feel compelled to drink the entirety of what you'd spent that week. Even if it was a case of beer or a bottle of spirits, so what?
Is It Immoral to Promote Alcoholism?
Not any more than it is "immoral" to promote fast foods, sugary drinks, skydiving, sportsbetting, driving, going outside, bushwalking, sports or any other activity which may potentially cause harm.
Personally I'm a huge proponent of personal responsibility. If we keep having to save people from themselves, then where does the line stop? I've always believed that people should have the right to make bad decisions as long as those decisions don't affect others. That's the only way they'll learn and not make bad decisions in the future. Trying to stop them from making bad decisions will only turn them against you and make you the villain.
Yes, alcohol can make people violent, can cause fights…etc., but there are already laws against that.
If you don't want to drink, then don't drink. If promotions, mates, peer pressure or whatever makes you drink when you don't want to, then grow some balls. At the end of the day, you're responsible for what you put in your body.
By promoting I mean, won't offers like these unnecessarily influence people to drink when they shouldn't or otherwise wouldn't have?
Example:
Sam: Let's eat out at night.
Sally: Or we could stay home there's an offer with flybuys.
Later that night Sam ends up beating his wife under influence.
Seriously? It was Sally's suggestion so she's at fault.
All family violence jokes aside, I think you're going too far with your assumptions. I've been in the liquor for quite sometime and I've seen just as many people abuse their partners at Coles over buying expensive meat as I have alcohol.
Not to mention she has to wait 3 weeks to hit her target.
Later that night Sally ends up beating her husband under influence.
It happens on both sides, and both are wrong and not always contributed to alcohol. They're contributed to shitty people/mental issues.
Are you 100% sure that they're not just resending you the same promotion? In any case, you're not forced to take them up with their deals. You might as well say any bulk buying or buying several special items contribute to hoarding. Is bulk buying immoral? (Only if you're buying masks/sanitizer/toilet paper)
If you find that they are manipulating you to buy more, do yourself a favour and please unsubscribe to those emails then click Deals For Selected Categories and only show deals you're interested in (you can remove Alcohol deals so you don't see them).
/* Please excuse any errors, I have had two glasses of wine.
By promoting I mean, won't offers like these unnecessarily influence people to drink when they shouldn't or otherwise wouldn't have?
It's up to the individual to decide when they should or should not drink. Right?
Ultimately this is a black and white issue. Either we as a society decide that alcohol is legal to consume, thereby allowing individuals to choose how they wish to consume it, or we decide that alcohol is illegal, thereby taking away that right for individuals to choose.
Is it immoral for me to say to a mate "let's go grab a beer, my shout", am I also "promoting alcoholism" by encouraging my mate to "drink when he shouldn't or otherwise wouldn't have"? You see my point? Am I morally responsible if he decides to start a fight later that night?
Later that night Sam ends up beating his wife under influence.
Sam didn't beat up Sally because he was drunk. Sam beat up Sally because he's a violent person.
To blame it on the alcohol is to excuse Sam's behaviour. The overwhelming, overwhelming majority of people drink. How many of them end up violent?
The church promotes Alcoholism by telling us that jesus can turn water into wine and wine represents the blood of christ
So yes it is immoral
Is is really true ?
No.
The fact that Mosher equated something the church says with being immoral by default should have told you that.
Jesus did turn water into wine (at a wedding), and it does represent the blood of Christ - Jesus and his pals drank wine at the last supper. That does NOT mean it is promoting alcoholism…
Jesus never exceeded five standard drinks in under two hours on more than five occasions a month.
Yes because "the church" is one big singular unit of Christ worship 🤔
No it's just a cult that uses it's influence to avoid tax and cover up child molestation by priests
Depends on the church. There are Christian denominations that completely forbid the consumption of alcohol. The Amish, for example. Then there are others (for example Catholic) that use real wine. I have had people of a particular branch of Christianity tell me the wine that Jesus made was actually non alcoholic. Everyone's take on it is a bit different.
There are plenty of bible passages condemning the excess consumption of alcohol too, but when it came to a wedding, Jesus wanted to get the party started (in moderation).
So the nanny state and lefties want to allow people to use/smoke marijuana(calling it liberal movement),use taxpayers money to fund injection room and bill testing, and at the same time jack up the legal tobacco price to penalise the smoker in the name of good health(in comparasion to these taxpayer subsidised drugs? like these are healthy food?), and now drinks become immoral, what's next? removing all branding from the bottle, plain packaging all drinks?
There was a suggestion a few years back around plain package wines… All it would do is make people spend less and buy more.
You could sort out a few Christmas gifts for those few weeks! I don't drink much but I don't think that promotes alcoholism. Alcoholism is a complex disease and alcoholics are going to find booze regardless of whether there's a sale on.
what about promotion to buy alcohol as mentioned here. Don't you think . this is how addiction begins .. not for everyone but for some. and not everyone is alcoholic but some are !
Smoking vs drinking.
I remember the good ole days when cigarettes were promoted and sponsoring events. Who remembers their oldies having cigarette trays around the house. Now it's promoted as evil. Drinking however…
What hypocrisy! I know which one causes more ills for society yet is promoted more heavily.
NB. I don't drink nor smoke. (and dislike both)
Easier to vilify cigarettes as they provide a less pleasurable experience compared to alcohol.
Personally I think they should ban cigarettes all together where you cannot purchase them if you were born after a certain year.
You know, one day, they'll be saying that about alcohol or eating meat (not in the near future but one day).
Eating meat is a bit far fetched but I see where you're coming from. Key to life is balance in everything we consume.
When science makes a steak or meat that tastes exactly like the original and isn't made out of soy, then I can see it happening.
It depends on what you're buying. $50 worth of $3 bottles of wine is a lot, three weeks in a row. But $50 is also what one bottle of wine can easily cost.
Also you don't have to drink all that alcohol within a week. When Coles sends me an offer for $X spend over 4 weeks to get $Y bonus dollars I sometimes buy items that take months to consume.
The poll question is loaded anyway. It's like asking 'have you stopped beating your wife?' Of course it's immoral to promote alcoholism, but the loaded question basically states that's what Liquorland is doing as a statement of fact.
Oh how crazy people indulge in different things that they enjoy. We all have our vices, don’t want to drink? Put it in the cupboard for guests, or wait for the next flybuys promotion. It ain’t a big deal.
You completely miss the point of such offers. A lot of people share a bottle of alcohol with someone else, their partner, friends, colleagues etc. In most cases a single bottle can finish within a single night or a week. So if you have an offer to buy alcohol every week the best thing you can do is simply purchase it and keep it for a future occasion. Who says you have to drink it as soon as you buy it? It's not a burger, it's alcohol.
For the right person offers like this just ends up being free money! To provide more context I used to run a drinks fridge in my old job which included soft drinks and beers for Friday afternoons. I would always get drinks from Woolies and BWS where I could because I could scan my Rewards card and earn points towards free groceries for myself.
At times where they had promotional offers like this I would take them up on the offer even if we didn't necessarily need more stock for the fridge just so I could get the points.
Over the years I ran the drinks fridge I saved hundreds on my own grocery bill just by getting points!
Alcohol advertising should be banned just like cigarette advertising was.
Same as Gambling
Don't see this as promoting alcoholism, just providing discounts on alcohol purchase.
If a pharmacy offered discounts 3 weeks running on pharmaceuticals I wouldn't think they were promoting over medication.
If myer offered a sale three weeks running on fridges I wouldn't think they were trying to get people to stockpile fridges.
I'm sure they're promoting a consumer centric lifestyle, but who isn't.
There used to be $1.00 jugs of beer back in the day. Uni students would flood the streets afterwards, stealing street signs, garden gnomes, vomiting everywhere and passing out on sidewalks, in gardens and on the street. That sort of pricing is immoral, because we can see that there's some visible negative consequence.
The big supermarket chains getting in bed with hotels/alcohol for the gambling licenses and then profiling problem gamblers, giving them incentives to come in and spend more - that's certainly immoral, because they'd have a fair idea that the target group was already vulnerable and they are leading these people with addiction issues down the wrong path.
A $50/week targeted discount doesn't seem to come anywhere near those two examples, so I don't think it is immoral.
But if the same $50/week targeted spend was given to someone whose big data profile shows that their ratio of alcohol vs food/groceries/toiletries expenditure is disproportionate, then I would say that would be immoral, because again, there's enough red flags for them to work out that again, there are addiction issues that ought to be addressed.
Having said that, I don't think it's a nanny state if a commercial grocery chain withholds a $50/discount to someone whose buying patterns suggest severe alcoholism.
Just lol
Yes when you live in a country with a massive drinking problem.
No if you live in a country where drunken violence and accidents are not a daily thing
$50 is peanuts for booze each week and its only for 3 weeks
Thats 3 cases of beer or cider or 1 case of an average wine.
For the average person thats nothing really
It might take 6 months to drink it all
OP is being totally unrealisic and critical
Party pooper……Fun police….COVID19 lock up fan
I don’t accept the premise of your question in this example so therefore can’t vote in your poll.
I don’t drink.
I have sold booze all my life.
$50 a week is not a lot of money to a lot of people. Especially on booze. The liquor laws vary from state to State and territory so in some places this may be illegal- you’d have to check. Remember not everybody is buying just for their personal consumption either. They are usually in a home or workplace of several people and they also may have more expensive tastes than you. One bottle of spirits would chew that up so they could buy a bottle a week and stock up their liquor cabinet. It doesn’t mean they are going to guzzle $50 a week just to get some fly buys. I see offers for fly buys on groceries all the time and I don’t go eating everything in sight to go get some more groceries. Usually it means I buy less just to qualify for the bonus. It means I sometimes shop more often. If you work it right the algorithms they use can track your spending and if you hit the sweet spot they will regularly send you offers that can amount to up to 20% discount. There is a pattern I have noticed. Others I tell about it can’t figure out how I get such sweet offers on fly buys. It’s because I recognise the pattern and work my shopping to repeat it. There are always a few more expensive Items I can stock up on too so I bump up my spend to trigger the offer. You need to shop in irregular patterns to get these a lot.
Having said all that, obviously nobody should promote alcoholism. It’s morally wrong and against the law. I think you are possibly overthinking things here.
There is certainly a debate about morals of promoting certain products.
It is like the government can legalise gambling but do people really need to pour their life savings into it? Same goes for alcohol. You can always find a justification for drinking if you are a drinker.
At this amount no.
$50 could be a case of beer, 1 spirit or 2 bottles of wine. I'd put this in the level of $5 pints for happy hour etc.
$500, $1000 etc…yes totally wrong
But….I had to buy a Car of drinks for a big 30th party and I wasn't allowed to…I had to make a declaration and get permission through the chains phone department, so there are measures for responsible service of alcohol.
"do you think it is immoral to promote alcoholism?"
YES,
if you assume that mainly alcoholics would take up this offer.
NO,
If you recognise that 99.9% of those taking up the offer are responsible drinkers,
AND that alcoholics drink to excess with or without such offers.
So …. don't be a wowser and try to limit discount offers for the overwhelming responsible majority of drinkers!
Nope….I'm a enabler to….
No alcoholic is getting by on $50 a week for booze I can assure you. Maybe $50 a DAY
You obviously don't know any alcoholics. $50 buys 20 litres of cask wine containing 200+ standard drinks.
3 Litres a day, 30+ standard drinks (equivilant to a litre of spirits PER DAY) is enough to keep even the most hardcore alcoholics satiated.
Ok wow, I did not know cask wine was so cheap.
So maybe it is possible to be alcoholic on $50 a week - if you stick to the cask wine.
I hit yes because i think Alcoholism kills more people then any other substance in Australia
Obesity kills far more, so food the biggest killer!
You don't have to buy booze from liquorland. You can also buy overpriced soft drink, snacks and last minute presents…
Calm down, not promoting alcoholism at all.
I know plenty of people who would spend this easy. $50 will hardly get you a bottle of whiskey (let alone a decent one) and with social restrictions lifting, a bottle won’t last a week
$50 is a pretty ordinary whiskey. A bottle a week between 2 adults is bugger all.
Imagine discussing the morality of a business carrying out lawful, peaceful business.
The only morality issue is with people trying to tell others what they can and can’t do.
I think the question is whether some laws are just, and actually minimise the amount of harm. Just because laws exist, it doesnt unfortunately mean they are morally right. This really is about public health policy that minimises harm to society.
So maybe we should move to a small government with less regulation so that we stop legislating inherent immorality - like telling peaceful businesses and individuals what to do and how they should or shouldn’t live their lives.
Segregation was legal. Slavery was legal. So don't use legality as a guide to morality.
The only people who use law as a guide to morality are people who want to shape the law to suit their morality.
Not sure why you ignored "peaceful" in the sentence, as if segregation or slavery are examples of peaceful behaviour. But then again, the ability to comprehend basic English is probably as difficult as a concept as allowing for personal freedoms and liberty.
Alcohol is for basic bitches that want to piss money up the wall on … piss.
Doesn’t mean you need to drink it all each week. Could also be a present for someone.
@leadtojrs… Stop judging people.
You do you. I'll do me.
You can buy alcohol and not drink it all at once.
Can we stop making issues out of non-issues?
Sounds like a good topic for an issue to raise. I believe someone posted a topic once before complaining about people posting unnecessary issues ;) …
It's not immoral to promote alcohol. It's immoral to promote alcoholism
Life would deteriorate with out alcohol, coming from a non alcoholic drinker (or smoker, mental health would sky rocket either way with or with out)so increase the adds and points.
Imagine if alcohol was a point system, smoke to much or cought with to much lose points.
We already have a car demerits system, and a welfare demerits system, and a credit rating system.
Where almost like china except the facial recognition thingy.
This reminds me of the thread a while back where some guy wanted every car in Australia to have a breath test device.
If people want to drink, they will find a way to drink. 10,000 fly buys points for spending $150 over 3 weeks at BWS is not going to turn people into raging alcoholics.
If it was a driver for increased Alcohol consumption & DV numbers, then we would be seeing a significant # of Alcohol/DV cases made by fly-buys users, at which point I would say yes, maybe it is an issue and we should make laws around it to protect people (like we have with cigarette advertising).
The only people who would take issue with this are those who got nothing better to do
I get the impression that those who are voting no have not been effected by alcoholism negatviely, and don't realise how deeply entrentched the culture of alcoholism is in our society. Being an alcoholic tends to be more socially acceptable than it is to be someone who doesn't drink at all.
Imagine expecting people to take responsibility for their own actions. Stop projecting the inability of your friends/family/self to act responsibly onto others.
Stop projecting the inability of your friends/family/self to act responsibly onto others
Wow, you've taken my general comment quite personally. Maybe you should do some self reflection on your own life and actions before you tell some stranger to stop doing something you are obviously presuming they regularly do.
The difference is that I don't base my morality, or my political votes, on appeasing the lowest common denominator.
It is somewhat personal when the nanny state, bootlicking crowd has turned the country into poop.
I have a feeling those that are voting no are looking at the example. Poorly phrased question will get poor and inconsistent results. I refrained from voting myself since I don't know which question to answer. Promoting alcoholism bad, Liquorland good.
Yeah, that is a fair point. It is an example of a good deal on a bargin website afterall.
Australian alcohol taxes are a joke. Bundaberg Rum is more than $25 tax but goon is next to zero.
I dont have to drink all $50 worth of booze in a week right?
I look at my stash of wine and Whisky and rum and Vodka thinking, hmm I have an alcohol problem.
BUT i dont.
Yes, promoting alcoholism is immoral.
No, this example you have given does not promote alcoholism.
No, the result of your poll will not have any meaning at all due to your leading question and the conflict in your two statements. Some people will answer it literally (it's bad). Some people will look at your example (it's fine).
Side note: I'd love to get this offer. Solid deal.
I think everyone has their own moral compass, partly influenced by their upbringing, cultural and religious values. Hence, the question of whether something is immoral is quite relative. Child marriage is incosidered immoral by many Australians (I think), but it seems to be okay in other cultures/countries.
In terms of alcohol, Australians (as with many western countries) are quite relaxed with alcohol consumption and seem to accept alcohol consumption as a very acceptable form of socialising and relaxation (my observation).
As such, I dont think our society in general would consider alcohol advertising immoral, at best some may consider this unethical or inappropriate (due to the impacts many have already highlighted). Those who may argue "adults are responsible for their own actions" have probably forgotten the direct impact and effectiveness of advertising and promotions.
Agreed. On a similar vein, I didn't realise until earlier this year when I was in Las Vegas (and found it thoroughly underwhelimg) how entrentched gambling culture and gambling advertising is in Australian society. I've been in RSL Clubs and even pubs in Sydney with gambling areas more impressive than some of the Casinos in Las Vegas. Not to mention, gambling is outlawed in a lot of places in the US, hence why Vegas is such a big deal to them. Here, you only need to be watching free to air TV to see a SportsBet, TAB or some other gambling add, go in any pub or club, or go to/watch any sports event to be exposed to gambling.
Gambling (and gambling culture) has somehow sneaked its way into acceptability into mainstream Australian culture under the guise of "responsible adults". I don't think many people are aware of this, but I don't know why more people aren't resisting it.
When things go back to normal, try to sit somewhere crowded and observe what people are doing on their phones. You get the ubiquitous social media users, but what's interesting is that many are putting their money on sportsbet etc with just a few click (and within 5 seconds or so). What is interesting to me is how this just becomes part of a ritual, eg. get ur lunch, coffee and place $x into race x.
I do believe that adults can be responsible, however, I don't think many of us realise how companies who offer some form of vice can easily penetrate our life and habits (through advertising and making access easier, e.g. app). These habits can easily turn into ruining your life.
Guess you could just buy $50 worth of soft drink and/or non alcoholic beverages. I mean this site is here to promote bargains.
Yeah most people are fine, but it's the tiny percentage you have to worry about.
It is irresponsible and so are the constant ads for gambling, including horse racing, sports and the lotto