Essential reading for all Australians in my opinion. Should be part of the curriculum here. This is a very eye opening book and one of the best things I read last year.
Unintentional rhyme.
CamelCamelCamel.
along with colonization
1,400,000,000 in India
1,400,000,000 in China
1,200,000,000 in Africa
White British a minority in London, Manchester and Birmingham
At 11.5% of the world Whites are the worlds minority and shrinking…?
Wow…that escalated quickly
hope you were wearing some oven mitts to deliver that hot take buddy. holy smokes.
Read it and form your own opinion but it's basically revisionist history. A bit like that book that claims China discovered the world.
I've read this book and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've also heard Bruce Pascoe speak and found him to be engaging and knowledgeable.
Pascoe isn't a historian which explains why the book has gaps. And as for this claim to Aboriginal ancestry.. It's complicated.
Here's a good read on this, and I actually thought this part of it is telling:
Pascoe himself has lately stayed away from the limelight; wisely, given the rancour. Most of his energies over the summer have been concentrated on defending his home from bushfires. As with most public debates in the age of Twitter and Fox News, there seems little possibility of kindness or compassion or shared understanding here.
Thx OP. Been meaning to pick up for some time. Ordered
And delivered. Terrific price and fast delivery. Looking forward to reading it
I read this book and quite enjoyed (most of) it.
Many of Pascoe's claims, for instance those regarding agriculture-like practises, are based on journal entries/various writings of many of our most respected early explorers. Much of what Pascoe puts forward in these areas is supported literally and explicitly by these early writings. Of course we must remain on guard against the author's unfounded or shaky leaps in logic when making generalisations based off these accounts.
Unfortunately I recall there being quite a large section of the book devoted to arguing that Aboriginal societies were essentially devoid of war and very peaceful in general. Unsurprisingly this section is quite light on serious references and is mostly speculation by the author. One who has studied the topic further finds that his claims in this regard are absolutely contrary to the truth. In general, their lives were pervaded by hostility to and from other tribes, revenge killings for perceived sorcery, and night ambushes which wiped out whole families.
And as someone else has said in another comment above
what secret information does he have access to that a non-indigenous person doesn't?
I don't have my copy of the book on me, sorry, otherwise I'd open it up for examples.
As I recall, there are many examples from the writing of early white explorers of things like complex fish traps and permanent to semi-permanent dwellings and villages (or at least congregations of dwellings). These writing are matters of public record and can be accessed in libraries, there's nothing secret about them. It appears they have been overlooked or ignored by history for ones reason or another, which I was quite surprised by. In most cases (on these topics) Pascoe quotes the explorer's own words, often in large quotes, which it is difficult to see how they could be taken out of context. Unless Pascoe is inventing quotes (extremely unlikely but obviously unforgivable if it were the case), or the explorers themselves were lying (in many cases they did not hold a very charitable view of the Aborigines so I don't see why they would invent false praises for them), we must assume these claims are based in fact.
Again, I'm only referring to specific sections of the book. As above, there are sections which I have major issues with and are not so well supported.
I don't care whether he's indigenous or not, to me it's not really relevant. I don't recall him making claims based on secret knowledge handed down to him by elders or anything of that sort.
I enjoyed the first half of the book (agriculture and architecture) but the second half wasn't as well supported as the first half.
Exactly how I felt.
Looks like the deal is over
Doesn't seem to be $4 anymore.
Mr. Pascoe, and his apologists, often escapes the gaps in his book by saying he's not a trained historian. Well there is a reason that no trained historian has ever written on this topic, and why they aren't leaping to his defence, and remember there are literals hundreds of tenured professors in Australia who focus on this. None of those men and women are interested in status quo, infant their careers would be greatly improved if they discovered something that rewrote history to this degree. In a peer reviewed, academic world you need to have evidence for you claims. The book has a number of dubious claims that are then backed up with evidence that has been manipulated to suit his conclusions.
If you'd like to read this, please do, but balance it with 'Forgotten War' or 'Because a White Man’ll Never Do It'. They're also attempt to make history readable to the laity, but they have academic bona fides and rigour to back up what they're saying.
If you're interested in how the Bolts of the world got involved in this slinging battle, the monthly had a good piece about it I'll link to below.
" But all this attacking and leaping and defending doesn’t do much to resolve the issues. And there are issues. Dark Emu rests on a foundational truth: that the European explorers saw things (and, from within their own worldview, wrote them down) that the first settlers (and the institutions that supported them) didn’t want known (because they were busy expanding the colonial frontier, which necessarily meant acting illegally), and that subsequent settlers couldn’t see (because those things were no longer in evidence). Had Dark Emu merely made this point by quoting explorers’ journals, the right’s attack would have no force."
https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/russell-marks/2020/05/202…
Thanks this is a good piece and the monthly does do great journalism in Australia!
Oops - I posted a Iink to that article too but I notice now you'd already done it.
@tlloyd, I disagree. There is so much written down and recorded by the Europeans that never would have been recorded if their intention was to hide the truth. It's evident that much of it is simply a play by play account of what they saw. Yes, it's recorded through the eyes of the Europeans, but you can't blame them for that — and if the Aboriginals were actually as cultured as Pascoe asserts, their side of the story would be likewise well documented, wouldn't it?
My missus made me read this as I am very critical of what people say about indigenous people. The book made me more critical as every other sentence was, "I'm sure with more research it would be shown my far reaching claim or assumption is legit".
It's the type of book that if you wanted to hear that Aborigines were amazing, you will hear that. However if you look closer at the content and evidence presented, it's laughable.
Basically you downvoted the deal because you didn't like the book even though it is the cheapest price it's ever been?
Negative vote can be issued if the voter has an issue with the product.
Turns out a negative vote can be revoked if enough negative votes are given to the comment. Who says two wrongs don't make a neutral!
Seems to be expired :(
Okay having woken up to see this post on Ozbargain and this comment section I felt compelled to add to the commentary. I am an archaeologist and practicing heritage professional in Australia, I work directly with and for indigenous groups in this country. IMO though it is not written by a heritage professional or academic it is a quality book that does a great job of highlighting anthropological and ethnographic sources of examples of complex economic and ecological activity undertaken by groups at the time of colonial contact. Many of these historic anecdotes were dismissed or looked over by academia in the past but collected together they paint a valuable reevaluation to the previous narrative Though the book can sometimes be some what liberal in its conclusions it is overall a fair representation of the source material. Myself and many of my associates has read the book and we have all enjoyed it though we do have the benefit from considering it from a more informed slant. In light of the media storm in a tea cup Mr Bolt created last year and the aforementioned blog discrediting Bruce Pascoe and his Dark Emu the book was highly discussed within forums and the overwhelming conclusion was that Pascoe produced solid work and Bolt was disingenuous in his espousals. I would invite you to read the book it you wish and form your own understanding. For further reading on some of the topics Dark Emu covers from a more academic perspective you can try The Biggest Estate on Earth: How Aborigines Made Australia by Bill Gammage.
Hey mate,
Thanks a lot for your comment, your perspective is greatly appreciated. I've been eyeing off The Biggest Estate on Earth for a while but have been reluctant to jump into something so big without knowing if it's historiographically sound. Do you consider it to be factual and well supported?
Full disclosure I have not done a through read of The Biggest Estate yet so I cannot provide a complete review. I purchased the book on the advice on my colleagues both archaeologists, anthropologists and ecologists that we work with following my reading of Dark Emu. Having flicked through my copy it is somewhat similar to Dark Emu in that it quotes heavily historical, anthropological and ethnographic accounts but sadly it sits in a pile of books that I am working my way through at present. Bill Gammage is a respected academic and I have come accoss some of his papers in the course of my work. The book itself has won multiple awards. Hope this helps. Cheers.
Like in the media and the performing arts, the political Left gives awards to people who express the right politically correct views, not for the actual quality of their work. Awards unfortunately mean nothing when ideology rules.
Did you come to any conclusions as to why the level of vitriol against DE and BP?
Fair enough, you don't like the book. Fair enough, you think there are some issues and you can point to some holes or you simply don't believe it.
But what gets people so riled up that they will "research" anti-research against the book and the author? As seen in this thread, there are a number of people that take the idea that there were many aboriginal communities that were not nomadic and were involved in agriculture and trade as a personal affront.
Is it the risk of besmirching the colonisers? That seems a stretch.
Do they put personal stock in the idea that white colonisation was good for the country and this takes something away?
I'm genuinely puzzled.
These are people who feel uncomfortable and with acknowledging what British colonisation did the Indigenous people of this land and will do anything to delegitimise anyone who attempts to change their 'truth'.
European settlement required the designation of this land as Terra Nullis, such that it wasn't stolen or destroyed, but simply discovered. By disregarding the possibility that Indigenous people built structures, had intricate land management processes, complex social relations, utilised agricultural and aquacultural techniques, there is something that can legitimise settlement and genocide.
https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display…
So why has it taken 200 years for someone to come out with these so called truths? And better yet, a Non-Aboriginal
@Danstar: genocide of aboriginal populations, destruction of aboriginal communities, structures, re-education programs, displacement and removal of aboriginal peoples from their homes and families, the systemic oppression of aboriginal knowledge, the denial/disregard of nonconforming (non-European) accounts,
the disrespect placed on Aboriginal people and culture who were and still are being told that British colonialism was good for them because they were brought out of their hunter/gather status, and then when someone tries to explore the truth of that and discovers that Indigenous peoples built structures and utilised intricate techniques for land and water management, they get targeted by vitriolic and unbased claims all because it exposed their fragility
The biggest issue with logic "burn the records" theory is that is you need to support it with facts. Facts tend to show the opposite
Terra nullius doesn't explain it either. It is simply an unsustainable conspiracy. Europeans were did what they wanted anyway. I doubt they would bother with the record burning, hiding the facts conspiracy.
History shows us European explorers around the world gave a lot of detailed reports about the peoples they met. We get to Australia and there is this giant conspiracy, that every European nation is in on, to delete from history accurate recordings of Aboriginal life. This is a time when agricultural plants were being recorded and moved around the planet - they were valuable. Local agriculture species and techniques were integrated with European agricultural, especially in colonies. The Sydney colony would have had exposure, as would other colonies. The Sydney and other colonies could have used a source locally suitable plants. We do know some indigenous plants were used but generally not agriculturally grown.
It also requires Aboriginals to be in on the joke, all agreeing never to talk about it. They managed to pass down an enormous amount of history but somehow forgot this. Seems improbable to me. The only realistic reason I can think of is disease wiped out Aboriginal communities which reverted nomadic to hunter gatherer lifestyles before explorers arrived. Even then that seems a stretch to wipe out oral history especially when many of the people born during the agricultural period would have lived through the disease and would and still have been alive through big chunks of the 1800s.
Conspiracy theories are generally just bad theories.
@CookieJacker31: "It also requires Aboriginals to be in on the joke, all agreeing never to talk about it. They managed to pass down an enormous amount of history but somehow forgot this. "
I'm not wading into this topic, but it is entirely possible. After all, the seafaring Europeans discovered the cure for scurvy, then forgot about it, then rediscovered it, then lost it again before discovering it once more.
I have to laugh… This book is normally $16. Now it's $4. It's a bargain.
Seems like this is OzPhilosophy sometimes.
If this thread demonstrates anything, it shows that bargain hunting has representatives on all sides of politics so at least we can unite for one cause. At the risk of being downvoted for having an uninformed opinion, I'll instead point you to an example of some balanced, intelligent discussion on this topic that is not driven by a premeditated agenda. Leave your biases at the door if you can. Let's hope one day we can unite for a cause much bigger than a packet of Eneloops.
https://www.themonthly.com.au/blog/russell-marks/2020/05/202…
I was appalled by the position the editor of the Sydney Morning Herald took on Pascoe and his piece of fiction. She wrote an editorial a little while back saying the debate on whether he was Aboriginal and his book was just a story, not the truth, should stop, and would henceforth stop in her newspaper, because it was "damaging the cause" of reconciliation. That is, the cause that she and her media outlet supported was more important than the truth on the matter. If the truth damaged a cause that she and her newspaper supported, then it she wasn't going to publish that truth any longer. It was a damning indictment of how that media outlet, the media generally, and journalism these days work. Its not so much that they tell outright lies, but that they'll publish facts that support what they believe, but they'll simply ignore the ones that don't.
Reading through the comments here, it may be that more people have read Andrew Bolt's column than this book.
There isn't anyone who is wrong all the time. Even Bolt. Or right all the time. Including the ABC. The Right might have gotten climate change wrong, but this is one they got right, and the Left got wrong.
The Right might have gotten climate change wrong,
Lets not bring this up in here too
LOLOL
racism is a form of, and a symptom of, mental illness because it influences and produces non logical and self harming outcomes.
Facts are disregarded without any foundation by sufferer's who are, as a result, seen to be obviously delusional.
For those who missed the sale you can always borrow a copy from your local library when it reopens. Or free to borrow now from Overdrive if your lib subscribes to that.
"Dark Emu" reminded me of the 1968 Erich Von Daniken book "Chariots of Fire"
Why is one person in particular going around refuting and rebutting almost every single comment on this topic?
Seems to be a lot of discussion of a book that some commenting here have not read.
I guess culture warriors can't help themselves hey…
He's in mourning for Alan Jones last day on air, and is taking it out on us….
Don’t really listen to or read Alan Jones’ stuff. But nice try :)
Pascoes accounts of indigenous land management fits in largely with what archeologists have found around the country. Most of us weren't presented with an accurate depiction of the intricacies of Indigenous culture when we went to school (myself included). I think a lot of people are flipping out on here because this book challenges pre conceived notions and ideas we have about Indigenous people. The truth of Australia's history may be uncomfortable for us, but it's our truth all the same.
How is it our truth cos 1 guy says it ?
Generations of stories and history thrown out cos of this one man…really ?
Do you have any comprehension skills? I stated that archaeologists have confirmed many of his assertions. That's hardly one person.
I’m stating that’s false :)
Should be in the "exploitation of a minority for profit" section.