Rent Reduction? Sewerage Leak Caused by Broken Pipe

Luckyuser on 28/05/2020 - 13:42
Last edited 02/06/2020 - 12:17

Hi all sorry it’s a long one, looking for advice and opinions.

Last Thursday 11am the pipe outside our en-suite burst and sewerage waste and water was spilling out of it. Real estate was informed who then informed the landlord who came himself to look at it first, plumber came that afternoon around 6pm didn’t have the parts to fix it so came and fixed it the following Friday morning. (Plumber is landlords guy not the real estates).

This Monday 12 in the afternoon we notified the real estate agency that the drain behind our main bathroom was overflowing with waste and water but this time worse and because it’s 2m behind our back door and right next to our undercover area so the smell is more noticeable. She informed the landlord but nothing was done that day.

Tuesday 10.30 in the morning I again contacted the real estate agency asking about fixing the issue she told us she had told the landlord on Monday. The same plumber ended up coming Tuesday around midday and concluded the problem must be in one of the main pipes and he needed another plumber with a camera to come in.

Tuesday 4pm plumber with camera comes along with the landlord, plumber told me that it isn’t our fault the roots of the trees have broken a pipe underground. Landlord told us he’ll get someone started on it Thursday and it will take a week as they need to dig up the ground etc, in the mean time he asked us to use less toilet paper.

Today (Thursday) 10am I notified the real estate of the current situation and we are awaiting the plumber.

Honestly I don’t know know exactly what I’m hoping for but I’d just like opinions or advice. How long is a reasonable timeframe to get it fixed? Are we entitled to a reduction in rent? We have 2 dogs who usually spend their days in the backyard but with the current issue they need to be leashed indoors apart from when we let them out front yard (which can’t be too long as they love barking at people passing by).

UPDATE 1/06

Thursday no one came no contact from anyone until I messaged REA

Friday messaged REA was told the plumber would start, again no one came

Saturday sent a friendly message explaining our frustration with lack of communication said we’d contact tenants vic if it wasn’t started on Monday

Sunday LL, his usual plumber and earthmover came, we were told in person they’d start 8am Monday

Monday 10am no one came contacted REA who had to chase LL, was told it was delayed until Tuesday due to bad weather

Tuesday 8am earthmover here plumber arrives shortly after job is finished in about 2-3 hours. Why it took a week for a 2 hour job is beyond me. Overall glad it’s done won’t be asking for a rent reduction but will be on the look out for another property.

Home & Garden

Comments

      • bmerigan on 29/05/2020 - 21:45
        -5

        My point is if it was their own house they wouldn't be compensated, they would just suck it up. So just suck it up

        • Luckyuser on 29/05/2020 - 23:43
          +1

          Fair point but if we did own the home it would be our choice on whether we got it repaired or not but as it is pay rent to live here so I don’t believe we should have to “suck it up”.

          • bmerigan on 30/05/2020 - 18:41
            +3

            @Luckyuser: You would consider not repairing a pipe spewing sewerage in your backyard?

        • whooah1979 on 30/05/2020 - 03:50
          +1

          Every investment comes with risks. People shouldn't invest if they can't take the good with the bad.

        • Intoxicoligist on 30/05/2020 - 09:35

          But they dont? They are renting? Hence the responsibility is on the landlord to provide an inhabitable dwelling?

    • Vote for Pedro on 30/05/2020 - 08:55
      +2

      I don’t understand this kicking the while they are down attitude. This is a business transaction. Product is faulty. Tenant should get relief from full price. No different to a faulty product in a shop.

      • Hret95 on 01/06/2020 - 10:27
        +1

        Exactly. This property is an investment for the landlord. With any investment, there are liabilities. The landlord should understand that things can go wrong.

        At this point, the matter hasn't been resolved in a timely manner and @luckyuser has every right to ask for a rent reduction.

        If there are issues, he needs to fix them. He rented out this investment property on the terms that this wasn't an issue prior to the tenant entering the property.

        Maybe if the landlord can't afford a timely emergency repair, they should withdraw their super to cover it?

        At the end of the day, you're right, it's just business, not personal.

        edit: And on the topic of "what if it was your place?", well as a (very fortunate) home owner, I would definitely be fixing it right away. It's my investment, I need to look after it. If I was renting my place out to someone, and this was an issue, I'd sure as hell make sure it was fixed in a very timely manner, or i'd be very open to a rent reduction until it was fixed.

      • Ash-Say on 07/06/2020 - 22:53

        For sake of argument, you have $8k OLED TV and it breaks down. The manufacturer will take it back for repairs which might take few weeks. They are not going to offer you free gift cards or free replacement TV in the meantime.

        • whooah1979 on 07/06/2020 - 23:26

          For sake of argument,

          Buy a $2k iPhone from Apple and it develops a hardware fault within the warranty period. Make an appointment, walk-in and with a brand new one.

          • Ash-Say on 08/06/2020 - 13:27

            @whooah1979: Not everyone is Apple

            Go buy LG, Panasonic, Hisense, Sony or whichever brand you like. I am sure they will not just provide brand new TV without an attempt to rectify the issue.

            • whooah1979 on 08/06/2020 - 13:36

              @Ash-Say: The customer have the right to choose the type of remedy they want for major faults.

              Go buy LG, Panasonic, Hisense, Sony or whichever brand you like.

              Press the power button on a tv made by any of these brands and it doesn’t turn on is an automatic repair, replacement or refund at the customer’s choice.

  • Oz em on 29/05/2020 - 21:57

    You need to fill in a form and specify a time frame.
    It will be on the residential tribunal website. I thought it was a form 7 but I may be wrong.

  • Oz em on 29/05/2020 - 21:59
    +1

    Also if repairs aren’t done in a reasonable time or are urgent you can organise yourself and submit the invoice to real estate.

    You need to tell your agent you will be doing this if not repaired by x date.

    • Luckyuser on 29/05/2020 - 23:49

      Thanks I did have a look at the tenantsvic website and it does state:

      “You can arrange and pay for urgent repairs yourself, but only if:

      the repairs are urgent, and
      you have tried to contact the landlord or agent, and
      you couldn’t contact them – or they don’t do the repairs, and
      they cost less than $1800 (including GST).”

      Going by other commenters it looks like it would cost more than $1800.

      • Luckyuser on 29/05/2020 - 23:53

        For the time being I’ve taken videos everyday since it happened. Not planning on going to VCAT but if nothings done by Monday then I may go that route to force the landlord to do the repairs but I hope I won’t have to.

  • Vote for Pedro on 30/05/2020 - 08:52
    +6

    Whether the landlord has acted reasonably or not is irrelevant. This is a business transaction. You’re paying for a product. The product is faulty. You are able to seek remedy/relief.

  • morebunnings on 30/05/2020 - 09:26
    +1

    If its a health hazard could you have the landlord put you up in a hotel until its fixed or something? He should have insurance that covers that.

    • whooah1979 on 30/05/2020 - 09:47

      Crap oozing out of the ground is pretty much a health and slip hazard.

      https://imgur.com/a/knwjGEV

    • Luckyuser on 30/05/2020 - 10:36

      Not sure if he has insurance but I’m going to call the property manager and ask her what’s going on in the meantime

  • stumo on 30/05/2020 - 10:00

    How far down the pipe was the blockage/roots? If its a few metres they can bring in a truck that can suck all the sewage out (sewage is the stuff in the pipes, sewerage is the pipes). That will then allow you to use the toilet as normal for a good few days before it overflows again.

    Get them to get a truck out.

    • Luckyuser on 30/05/2020 - 10:34

      Hi thanks I’ve got no idea how far down it is, I may ask if they can do something like you’ve suggested in the meantime if they delay getting it fixed. Thank you.

      Ps. Toilets flush normally but when you do the sink and shower drain spit up a little bit of water. When in the shower longer than a few minutes the shower drain overflows, the kitchen sinks also take a while to drain.

      • stumo on 30/05/2020 - 11:21
        +1

        Thats a health issue, they cant expect you to live safely in those conditions. Get a video of the sink and shower spitting up when flushing in case you need evidence in future.

        Get them to send a truck out stat. You cant live like that until Monday. Any length of pipe before the blockage will be better than what you have now.

        I have a tree root isuue at my place too. The LL is too tight to fix the problem properly, so I have this issue about once a year.

  • Luckyuser on 30/05/2020 - 18:39

    No one ended up coming on Friday so I messaged the property manager this morning the following:

    “Hi _____ sorry for the video but this is what it looks like today. The longer it stays the way it is the further it is spreading. I know it's out of your control as the landlord is organising the plumber himself but I don't think it fair for us to have to put up with it for the amount of time we have. Apart from the smell and overall health and safety of it the main issue I have is we're unable to let our dogs out for more than a few minutes before they start sniffing in the area and so they've mainly been leashed inside which isn't fair on them either. I know it is considered an emergency repair and so it really should have been dealt with by now. I'm also not happy with the landlord telling me it would get started on Thursday and then Friday confirmed by yourself only to have no one show up. I don't want to sound pushy but if it isn't at least started on by Monday I will be seeking advice from tenants Victoria.”

    Her reply:
    “Sorry I haven't been answering it's my day off and I'm home with my daughter and trying to do a food shop and clean.
    I have tried to contact the landlord and he didnt answer. I have also forwarded him the text you sent though.
    I am so sorry you are being put this though. Not the plumbing issue cause that is out of our hands, but the time frame and being stuffed around. I agree, this should have been sorted or at least started.
    As it's not one of my plumbers I'm not sure what they have done, what they intended on doing.
    Again I do apologies and I will let you know if I hear back from your landlord.
    I would suggest just go about your day and leave the side gate unlocked and they can just enter through there.”

    So for now it looks like it’s obviously the landlord delaying getting it fixed whether that’s due to the cost of the repair who knows. For now as I’ve said earlier a few times we won’t be seeking a rent reduction but if it’s not started on by Monday I will be contacting tenants vic for advice. If there’s no communication from the landlord then we will go the VCAT route to force him to do the repair but are hopeful it doesn’t get to that.

    Thanks everyone for your comments I’ve tried my best to take everyone’s opinions into consideration and I do admit when I first wrote this post it may have been premature on my part to seek a rent reduction but with the lack of communication from the landlord I feel as it is justified at this point. Again we won’t be seeking a reduction but may in the coming days if it isn’t sorted out.

    • Vote for Pedro on 31/05/2020 - 14:04

      Your REA is also in a difficult position. They are the ones with experience in this type of issue but are being sidelined. I’d ask the REA if there are any similar properties available in the area and move. Seems to be a sign of how the owner of the property will manage issues.

      Unfortunately it seems that the business owner hasn’t allowed sufficient capital for unexpected expenses.

      • Luckyuser on 31/05/2020 - 16:54

        Yeah that’s why I knew not to take my frustrations out on the REA because I knew beforehand it wasn’t their plumber. And it seemed as though they were trying their best to hurry the landlord along.

        Anyway an earthmover and the landlord came around today (first time an earthmover came). Later a plumber (His usual plumber) and they said they’ll start on it tomorrow 8am. My thoughts are he didn’t have the funds and so when he told me Thursday then Friday no one was actually booked into come he was just delaying probably due to lack of funds. After the text message I sent yesterday it’s obviously got him into gear so as long as they actually do turn up tomorrow I’m happy with the outcome.

  • ihbh on 30/05/2020 - 21:17
    +3

    To give you something similar to the landlord's perspective. The first plumber came out and quoted $10+k. I got a second one to come out and he quoted $5ish and another a bit more than $5ish. I then had to ascertain the effort involved and whether the the first guy was overquoting or the second was underquoting. All of this takes time.

    However, I did keep the tenant abreast of everything via the property manager.

    Note that just because a plumber comes out and quotes, it doesn't mean he can start the next day - he might have a big job or a couple of jobs lined up already. However, you should have been kept in the loop with everything, although it's hard to be clear when a landlord hasn't faced this situation before.

    • JimmyF on 31/05/2020 - 11:14
      -2

      Don't try to apply logic to this thread. The entitled trolls are out who have no understanding how this all works in real life.

    • Vote for Pedro on 31/05/2020 - 13:58

      That is quite a reasonable position and your communication is to be commended.

      How do you feel about the issue of rent relief?

      • ihbh on 31/05/2020 - 16:45

        The landlord is up for an outlay of $5-10k for no additional return on that outlay, so rent relief is not top of kind at this stage.

        Renters can't assume that it's all roses just because they pay rent. They need to realise that an owner occupier would be in a similar situation without interest relief from the bank.

        • fersea on 31/05/2020 - 18:30

          Correct. I don’t think the tenant could argue that the problem is taking any longer to sort than if they owned the place.

        • Vote for Pedro on 31/05/2020 - 19:16
          +1

          A renter doesn’t need to assume anything. They pay for a product.

          • ihbh on 31/05/2020 - 20:20

            @Vote for Pedro: Fair point. In a way they do get their product - most problems are attended to within a day or two with for smaller jobs with someone going out to do a quote and then fixing/buying and then installing. Bigger jobs take a bit longer.

            My tenants get things remedied much quicker than my wife does with our home - which I mainly do and it can take ages when I get around to it.

            • Vote for Pedro on 31/05/2020 - 20:32

              @ihbh: Mostly i fix things as a tenant as it’s easier, but that’s because the REA is pretty good. Owner, not so much. We were without power in living/kitchen for 4 weeks because strata didn’t play ball with REA. So I asked for a rent rebate there. Got fixed a day later

              • ihbh on 31/05/2020 - 21:53

                @Vote for Pedro: You're the ideal tenant and a sensible landlord would charge you below market rent to retain because small maintenance costs are a nuisance and can add up if you need to get a handyman out to quote and rectify each time.

  • fersea on 31/05/2020 - 16:31

    If this was my property and you were asking for rent reduction I would be very angry.

    You need to understand you are renting a place to live 365 days a year, not a hotel room.

    When you are renting a hotel room for a couple of nights, it is reasonable that you get moved to another room or even another hotel, but when you rent a house you need to accept that from time to time there will be issues and this will involve some inconvenience. I don’t know what is happening in the past couple of days, but it seems the landlord has been very proactive in getting the matter attended to. Sewerage is obviously an issue that has be fixed quickly and that is fair enough that you need it fixed quickly.

    In my investment properties there are sometimes repairs needed including one time we replaced a dishwasher (was actually done under warranty) and a shower base (fortunately there are two showers). Clearly that provided some inconvenience to the tenant but there wasn’t any debate about rent reductions. My responsibility it to get these things fixed ASAP, tenants have a responsibility to act reasonably too.

    • Luckyuser on 31/05/2020 - 17:04

      Thanks for your input although I don’t think a broken dishwasher and shower base is quite on the same level as sewage coming out from a drain.

      Honestly I think I’ve been quite reasonable as I said earlier were not going to ask for a rent reduction.

      But the fact of the matter is it really should have been dealt with earlier.

      Monday morning problem started REA notified no one came
      Tuesday I had to message again and then they came and the cause of the problem found
      Thursday we were told it would get started,
      Friday Again we were told it would get started
      Saturday I messaged the agency saying I’d contact tenants vic if it wasn’t started by Monday,
      Sunday Landlord, earthmover and plumber came and we were told it would be started on 8am Monday

      • fersea on 31/05/2020 - 18:28

        Seems to me there are some break downs in communication which isn’t great but the fact they need an earthmover suggests it is not a small job that doesn’t need a bit of planning.

        • Luckyuser on 01/06/2020 - 12:04

          Yes there definitely has been a lack of communication on the LLs part. This morning 10am no one here I call the REA (even she sounds frustrated with the LL) she calls the LL to find out it’s been cancelled until tomorrow due to bad weather. I don’t see how hard it is to send me a text message beforehand and let me know what’s going on rather then me having to chase them up. Tomorrow’s weather looks like it’ll be the same so I wonder if it’ll even go ahead then.

    • whooah1979 on 31/05/2020 - 18:07
      +3

      Asking a tenant to wait a week to two to repair a lead-in without providing compensation is unreasonable. The tenant the right to take this case to the VCAT.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2020 - 20:20

        I agree that it is unreasonable too and I am a landlord.

  • dogboy on 31/05/2020 - 17:20
    -2

    Asking for a rental reduction while the landlord is responding to your problems in a timely manner is just a self-entitled dick move. Unfortunately things will be delayed because the majority of tradies in this country are worthless.

    • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2020 - 12:37
      +1

      It's a dick move asking for a rent reduction while there is an issue with a sewage leak in the property?

      Right…

  • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2020 - 11:56

    Probably a case for paying no rent until it is repaired and seeking damages tbh

    • Luckyuser on 01/06/2020 - 12:07

      Even though I may feel like doing that at this point I won’t because it may affect our rental history in the future, we’ve always paid rent on time or a few days early.

      • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2020 - 12:36

        In what sense? It's a legitimate grievance, no bond board will side against you when it comes to getting a new place.

        They won't be able to rent out the place until it is resolved anyway and they have a guaranteed renter at the agreed rate in you.

        It wouldn't be prudent of the landlord to object

      • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2020 - 20:19

        Whatever you do do not stop paying rent. Apply for a rent reduction or negotiate with the RE to move into another vacant property.

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