Wanted to know everyones thoughts on this?
It seems at a time that everyone is trying to support and appreciate essential workers - this is a fair blow.
You've got 18yo kids who are now earning far more on jobseeker than they did working 4 hours a week yet the gov wants to penalise the workers who are most needed at this time.
Might be too close for a fair assessment so open to opinion.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/gladys-berejiklian-announces-12-…
You are doing something voluntarily. If you are unhappy doing so, you should stop instead of expecting others to align with you forcibly.
Don't get me wrong, charity is noble. Forcing/expecting others to be charitable isn't.
Where's the proof to back up your blanket statement?
Meanwhile the pollies have been setting their own salaries and pay rises for years and the NSW Commissioner of Police is now on over $600k per annum.
$600k per annum
A criminal may consider a career change lol
Why? They're already on $600kpa.
Do you know how many public servants are low to middle income earners? Do you think the money from the pay freeze is going to charities?
You could use that same argument that the Federal government are not 'in this together' in that they have similarly frozen public services salaries, whilst their expectation is that some workers and small businesses may need to accept pay cuts to get through these times of economic hardship.
The question posed to our fearless PM yesterday by a journalist was if the PM would follow the example of NZ and take a pay cut; the answer was protracted, not specific, but equated to 'No'.
The problem with pay cuts is that this government will make sure that they stay permanent. If it is temporarily, and we can reap the benefits when everything recovers again, sign me up.
Security? Yes. Overpaid? No.
Overpaid YES.
Last year i earned 100k NSW public Servant. It was embarrassing how little i and others in my department did.
Average day. Arrive clock on. Talk for 10 minutes on my way to put lunch in the fridge. Go to desk, turn on computer. Check phone for 10 minutes while i open all my programs. Go get coffe and chat in the tea room for 10 minutes and 5 minutes to people on the way back to my desk. Drink my coffee and bikkies and read the news 10 minutes. Go to the loo and chat for 5 to other male colleagues in the loo. Arrive back at desk ready to work. So im ready to work after 45 minutes. 20 minutes later my cubicle colleagues start to arrive 5 minute chat to each of them another 30 minutes. And it goes on throughout the day.
This happens in so mamy departments within the GOV. If you think that's wasteful and unproductive, wait till you see some other high ESSENTIAL sectors.
That’s on you mate. There’s plenty of people that do more than the bare minimum in their job.
@Hughesyboy: indeed.
you sound like part of the problem mate. dead weight, waiting for a redundancy package
Last time, u said u r a real estate agent.
@Strikes: Government cant allow Housing to devalue or fail, clearly we now have govt workers in real estate to prop it up.
I know lots of public servant work Monday overtime to get job done.
That why you didn't survive from restructuring?
A mate of mine is doing 3 hours a week of real work. Pre covid she was run off her feet but down it’s really quiet. Ex-private sector so it’s not like they are lazy.
Where do I sign up, asking for a mate
FAKE
happens in PRIVATE as much/if not more and the salaries are higher
Overpaid? YES
Compare average pay of entry level jobs to private sector and you can see the difference
but i think that is to compensate the fact that there is minimal progression after certain point in your career
and i think it is quite hard to move to private sector after being in gov sector for quite some time
Definitely overpaid based on my sector in IT we pay our level one support around 60k in private sector they are earning close to 80k and more… I know this because my mother works in the gov sector as an EA for the CIO (equivalent)… So has visibility over levels and earnings… I didn't earn that type of money till I was a sys admin, for a snot nosed grad to get that is ridiculous in an industry that once ur in ur hard to get rid of… If security is paramount then pay should be at or lower than private sector levels…
Sorry end of rant lol
JFC 80K for level 1 - I'm ditching my senior eng position to take a 15k pay cut and a whole lot less troubles.
I was on 80k as level 3 in my last position. (profanity) I need to move.
Public sector work seems to be overpaid for low skill and entry level roles, but underpaid for highly technical and/or senior level roles. Can't have too many tall poppies in the public service it seems. The plebs would probably strike.
If you have the skills/seniority AND you back your own abilty, you will do much better in private enterprise. Those seeking a paycheque or "work/life balance" would be best suited to government roles.
Yeah I have job security. But I also see on average 1 dead child a month. If I Worked as a medical rep if be making much better coin and better working hours
I bet there's someone else out there that would gladly take your post for fewer coins.
I'm not saying your job is easy, I'm not comparing your job to another.
In a private sector, an employee's worth is based on the employer's perception. The employer pays out of their own pocket.
In public, your employer pays out of my pocket. It's easy for them to be generous with someone else's money so the rules of engagement are different. In public, if someone similarly qualified will do your job for less, you are overpaid. It doesn't matter what other job in the private sector you are comparing it to.
(When a rep fails to meet their target, they get the sack. When the public sector or employee fail to meet their target, they allocate more budget/staff.)
If I Worked as a medical rep if be making much better coin and better working hours
Then why don't you?
Job security and I actually enjoy helping families through what could be the worse times of their lives. Doesn't mean I want to be paid shit. If they did do a wage drop or freeze, you would find a lot of my colleagues seeking different employment.
@Pigsy3: Sounds like it already passes a CBA to you then.
So im not very sympathetic (as someone who has also had their wages frozen) when a lot of other people out there have lost their jobs, been stood down, have had their hours slashed, or are bleeding cash in their business.
People are really underestimating the economic cost if this pandemic.
you would find a lot of my colleagues seeking different employment.
They may seek but they won't necessarily find one. Not in the current economic climate anyway.
@Pigsy3: As a medical rep you could potentially save thousands of lives a year by correctly educating physicians on how to use pharmaceutical medications appropriately. The grass is always greener.
Job security, yes, but as an ex-public sector employee, I don't think I was overpaid.
I've worked in the public sector, in private industry and also run my own business. I'd say that there's less oversight in the public sector. Less penny pinching management, so it's a more laid back environment. Some people are more productive in this environment whereas others take advantage of it and do literally nothing. I'm generally a pretty hard worker, so I was never lazy even in my public sector job.
When I left for the private sector, I worked the same hours, had more fun (in the sense that my colleagues were more boisterous and enjoyable to be around), had more functions, drinks, parties, dinners…etc., and I got paid more.
…12-Month Public Sector Wage Freeze - Thoughts?
Welcome to the world of the private sector employees… since the GFC!
I get that… but there's a downside here. The NSW Gvt is the largest employer in Australia. This sets an example of what others will be able to do. So, welcome to no more wage increases for a long time.
Again, "welcome to the world of the private sector employees since the GFC!"
BS. private sector is sky high compared to the same job public
examples?
My employer is apparently classified as an 'essential service', but my colleagues and I have only had pay rises over the last few years aligned with the CPI. We probably won't even get that 1-2% this year due to the hard economic times (even though the company is on a contracted fixed income stream with CPI adjustments year-on-year).
I have never had a pay rise with CPI, in 14 years. Any payrise I've got I've had to go toe to toe with the directors.
Don't worry, mate - NSW Police Commissioner got their pay rise of $87k.
Wow, Commissioner Fuller is now paid a salary of $649,500, balls, that's more than the PM.
That is mental.
Australia's Reserve Bank Governor Philip Lowe draws a total salary package of $1,059,761.But his counterpart at the US Federal Reserve, Chairman Jerome Powell, is paid just $203,500 or about $A295,000 - even though the decisions he makes affect the world's biggest economy and have major global ramifications.
Similarly, Frances Adamson earns $864,580 as the secretary of Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, while the UK's Foreign and Commonwealth Office chief Simon McDonald earns £185,000 ($A345,000) - less than half his Australian equivalent.
No wonder our passport is the most expensive in the world
I wonder if he's envious of some our our university vice-chancellors? Chancellors seem to keep their salaries a more-closely guarded secret.
Top 10 Vice-Chancellor Salary Packages
Rank Uni VC Name Salary Package ($)
1 University of Melbourne Glyn Davis* 1,589,999
2 University of Sydney Michael Spence 1,527,669
3 University of New South Wales Ian Jacobs 1,288,478
4 University of Queensland Peter Hoj 1,199,999
5 Deakin University Jane den Hollander 1,109,999
https://www.universityrankings.com.au/top-10-highest-paid-vi…
@OldnBroke: Chancellors are generally more of an honorary position so the VC would typically be the highest earner in the University Executive.
To be fair,
High wages attracts talent. You want Australians who have talent stay and manage the economy, not get poached into working international bank or trying to do favours for the same.
@Yotta00: Are you seriously saying that Lowe is worth 3 Powells? 🤨
Edit: Ironically, Philip Lowe once criticised the business community for their high salaries saying people should be happy to deliver value to a company without excessive pay:
“As a regular Australian, it disturbs me. Some people are paid extraordinarily high amounts of money while working Australians have relatively low wages and getting small wage increases, I think it’s an issue for society,” he said.
LOL!
CEO of brisbane city council is on 700-789k a year
A pay rise of more than most people make in a year. What I would give for that kinda bump haha
Because paying one person $87k to appease the entire department is cheaper than paying the entire department.
The government takes an macro perspective - if the public is tolerating the service, the only other benefit of paying the service more is to have their support come election time.
The job of the commisioner, managers and union leaders is to provide that support at minimal cost.
That cost is $87k per year.
Not be the only reason, or perspective at play by a long way.
The NSWPS presents a very real risk to the 'gov of the day and those in charge. They have to implement the pointy end of contentious legislation. Push back by those in uniform impacts the 'brand' and reputation of the Ministers, depts and the Premier. No gov wants to risk not having a Commissioner on their side.
But in addition, the corruption angles, the ability of Police to be used, or cause problems for people in gov, as well as their private masters, is another thing entirely.
Besides, it's a role as difficult and risky, if not riskier, than the Premier's job. Many of your adversaries tote guns and have just as many have fat bank accounts.
@resisting the urge: Just off tangent slightly.
So there are all these guns and money so the commissioners job is unsafe even though he/she has an army of armed officers in their employ. What about me? Those same people with arms and money swim in the same waters except I don't have arms (well, I do but most don't) and no army. :(
My danger factor is even higher. I want $88k
@[Deactivated]: Depends what you've seen perhaps.
Behind the bikies 'of old' was lots of money. The money wasn't stashed in clubhouses, just funnelled. But banning the bikies did nothing to stop the illegal trade, it goes up year on year. Different gangs operate in markets that are now several magnitudes larger. And that's without counting synthetics beyond law and regulation. These operations are thriving, un-taxed, and do so outside the public eye better than these kind of activities ever did. And they are co-ordinated.
It's influence that makes the world go round, now. The founding days of opiates, strip clubs and brown paper bags are long gone.
Yea, we all want the 88k, the ones that need it are those that live beside all the dealers, addicts and who can't afford to keep their kids out of it, let alone pay to educate them.
@resisting the urge: Hmm. Sounds like the person that is paid the $87k extra is failing to protect those who deserve but isn't getting their $88k.
@[Deactivated]: It's all on one head? Not by a long way. The system has never really worked and isn't being improved. And the 88k is well spent in terms of protection.
We can have a few terms of 'better' gov, but no matter, things get worse, despite record prosperity. As a nation, we don't educate ourselves, we get fat, we get sick. Money drains out everywhere, and if things get too bad, they just print more, add a few zeros.
Peasants can't get pay rises. Then a depression the size of Uranus hits, the fools in charge are forced to do something. And to do so, they borrow in our names, and can't figure out how much it'll cost, or what will be achieved. Yet, and as if by magic, they know how many votes they'll retain, and gain.
It is not coincidence that the law they are paid to maintain has become too long and convoluted for anyone to read. None of them take ownership, and no-one actively maintains it. We don't even know our own constitution.
Our solution so far is to employ multiple houses of meddlers and critics to implement it for us. But they just play the system to their own advantage, removing transparency and accountability, doing their best every time to split responsibilities and divide it among others.
This is the real muppet show, the orchestration of lies and blame, dividing the peasants that have the resources and gumption to look-on as they climb the ladders of power, and sit on their bags. Mo' money, mo' influence, 'n f you're not in there with them, it won't be coming down to you. The mere idea that you should support them or perish, has always been enough to win the heart, mind and soul of the colonial as well as the immigrant.
@[Deactivated]: Angus Campbell, our Chief Of Defence, has an actual army of highly trained soldiers and he once joked about how he drives around in a Hawkei , which is a highly mobile, highly protected, 7-tonne vehicle, with in-built systems to allow it to be used as a fighting platform. He earns over $800k p.a
I bet you don't have one of those bad boys. Your danger factor is way higher than you first thought. Asking for anything less than $1 mil would be selling yourself short.
Same thing has happened in Qld. Health workers had worked out a pay increase that was meant to be going through around the time of covid, now not getting it.
Still waiting on my $1250 too…
Yep, I don't think it's coming anymore, pretty grim
Think about this for a moment.
The government (ignore state vs federal for a second) does not have the money. The government does not have the money to be spending more and getting nothing more.
GST receipts can expect to be noticeably lower in the near future, meaning less money for the States.
Everyone has to share the pain now, private sector will likely receive pay cuts if not pay freezes, so should the public sector.
Pay cuts are already evident in the private sector, but not for politicians in this country, obviously, because they are doing such a good job.
I'd preferred they tax a few billionaires. The took our money back off of the great barrier reef foundation and whatever Angus Taylor has had his grubby mitts on
The government does not have the money to be spending more and getting nothing more.
But we have money to knock down and rebuild stadiums, relocating museums, putting tramlines in where there is no need for them…?
Think there is a better than average chance many of those projects will be cancelled or significantly delayed too.
I hope they are not canceled. Those projects will create jobs which is what we need at the moment.
@[Deactivated]: I could see the museum relocation has potential of cancel. the others more likely delayed.
I hope they are not canceled. Those projects will create jobs which is what we need at the moment.
Disagree.
The tram from westmead to parramatta to epping(?) doesn't need the first bit. There are ample bus services and train services. And it is destroying part of Parramatta. Eat Street (church st), which is currently suffering massively from Covid, won't be able to return the way it was. They're digging it up now.
We don't need a renewed Stadium Australia. Powerhouse can stay where it is. We can invest this into new things we actually need. Better schools. It is construction, it is much more dispersed, more than just a few big building firms will benefit.
@Lord Fart Bucket: If it was me, I would use the money to build social housing. If this pandemic has taught us anything, it is that everyone should have a roof over their head.
In Vic, where I am , Andrews has announced $2.7 billion in funding for building projects across the state, with about $1.1 billion allocated for new schools and classrooms.
Some of the $1.18 billion for schools and education will go towards fulfilling previously announced projects, such as the new 3000-student Greater Shepparton Secondary College – one of a total of 10 new schools in growth areas included in the funding – while $114 million will go towards 250 demountable classrooms.
More widely there will be $382 million in upgrades for tourism destinations such as new mountain bike trails in the Ararat Hills, along with $328 million for resurfacing and patching roads, repairs at about 15 train stations and 300 kilometres of regional train track works.
Premier Daniel Andrews said he expected the $2.7 billion package to create 3700 construction jobs, many for Victorians out of work due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Decreasing government spending during a crisis does not work and that's an economic fact.
What do you think public servants are gonna do with a payrise? They'll either spend it or invest it. Both good for the Australian economy.
Are Public Servants overpaid? No. Are they in a better off position than other industries? Probably. But it depends what part of the public service we are talking about. Different departments and different levels of work would require different pay schemes. Do our doctors and nurses deserve more pay? Do Department office workers?
The good old days used to be a nice cushy job in government equalled taking a hit to your income for choosing this over private industry.
My experience is quite the opposite, private industry is pushing harder for more productivity while squeezing pay packets. Not sure at the professional level, but at the graduate level government staff are some of the best paid in the industry.
I believe it's due to the government jobs being stuck in the boom times with wages never resetting, stuck at the peak.
IMHO I think many civil servant jobs are overpaid relative to private.
Not so sure about this. I am a data analyst at a government department. I have looked (pre-covid) at private sector. I can make 30-50% more there. The issue is that I would not be likely to see my kids during the week.
I agree, some are overpaid. But to turn that into "many" is incorrect.
up front you may make more, but the super benefits, leave, the work flexibility, overtime, job security etc are usually significantly less.
nope, everyone in gov sector leaves for better cash in private while working the exact same amount.
Can't speak for NSW but VIC public sector bucket is approx ~9% of the whole Victorian labour force. It's not just politicians and endless red-tape departments but it's public schools, public health care, Police and emergency services and so on. Should salaries be frozen? No.
A complete breakdown is here: https://vpsc.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Report-St…
Socialism is great until you eventually run out of other peoples money
Be sure to tell the firey that if your house ever catches on fire.
As someone who works in the private sector, I can only wish that I get the annual pay increases that public servants get every year.
Well, you have the option to change jobs, it's not that easy when you're a highly skilled public worker.
Riggght because office jockeys are highly skilled.
Yeah, because no white collar job could ever be hard. AmIright?
Public workers get stuck in the public system for life for other reasons…
Just go speak with the many recruiters who will refuse to place long term public servants in the private sector and they will explain why.
Can you share why?
Except that public servants don’t get pay increases each year.
I know people in Health, they get a pay rise every year. Quite often a CPI correction and then the Unions demand a bit more. Impossible to get fired, so you don't even have to perform to get your pay rise. Completely useless staff are on 100k thanks to the annual pay increase.
Why can’t the RBA just print more money to pay these workers? These is no shame in copying the rest of the world.
Ever head about inflation?
Yeah, I don't want to pay $100 for a loaf of bread and 2L of milk too.
We don’t live in Venezuela.
Yeah, and communism was never tried correctly, we should try again in Australia. We will get it right this time!
There was never ever a point in history in which a country fixed their economy by printing more money.
Strong leaders set the pace, our politicians should be the FIRST to have done this.
Why is it left to all the low-middle income earner to continue donating to charities and supporting each other when they won't?