[AMA] - I'm a Builder (Part 1)

TheBilly on 22/05/2020 - 22:01
Last edited 24/05/2020 - 21:50

Have had a few people contact me on Oz bargain asking for advice from a builder, so I thought there may be a need for some pro bono. So here goes, a conditional [AMA] to do with being a builder in Sydney.

The conditions are;

  • I will answer everything I can without giving up my personal details
  • Be patient and give me time to respond
  • Can only respond to items posted this weekend, if there is not a lot of interest I may continue
  • These are just my opinions
  • Sydney is very different to interstate cities

A bit of history;

  • I am a builder
  • Worked for 15 years
  • New south wales
  • Have built major projects all the way through to bathroom renovations
  • I'm not on the tools, I can be, but I just manage so I can build quicker
  • Not a building god and am still learning a lot about compliance (weak spot)
  • Construction is an extremely diverse industry
  • It is a difficult job but I love it

Edit: 9.51pm 24.05.20 - Hi All, thank you for your questions. I will probably take a temporary hiatus and only respond to questions posted this weekend as noted above. I have changed the title of this thread to (Part 1) because I intend to do a (Part 2) AMA as well. Hopefully in the coming couple of months. I would extend this (AMA) however I unfortunately have a very busy couple of weeks ahead and just like this weekend if I have a bit of a lul period after that I will do another AMA in a new thread.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • psdillon on 23/05/2020 - 12:20

    How do you find good tradies, and how do you deal with tradies when they've done sub-standard work? I imagine it would be constant conflict, which would be exhausting for most people.

    • funnysht on 24/05/2020 - 12:08

      probably word of mouth, and not pay all at once, in installments, if they complain abt not being able to get the items, then they prob dont have a big business

      • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 22:27

        Yes that is correct

        • Logical on 25/05/2020 - 17:57
          -1

          I thought at uni you would have studied that construction work requires a contract? Retention monies, remedies for breach of contract eg quality of work…. are all within the contract. As owner/client you protect yourself against rogue/dodgy builders.

          • TheBilly on 27/05/2020 - 11:32

            @Logical: You live in a vacuum if you think a contract and retention makes the world go lah di dah.

            • Logical on 29/05/2020 - 22:35

              @TheBilly: You are off topic there mate. Psdillon asked a specific question relating to dealing with substandard work, hence my response that protection comes from having a contract. Or do you propose calling in the Bikies?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 17:26

      How do you find good tradies?

      I have a database of thousands of tradies. More often than not I stick to tradies I have worked with before (rotatate maybe 2-3 electricians for example) or my friends have worked with then before. Working in the industry for a very long time for others before working for myself allowed me to develop alot of connections.

      How do you deal with tradies when they've done sub-standard work? I imagine it would be constant conflict, which would be exhausting for most people.

      The trick is to catch them before they are done. I try to minimise poor wormanship by reviewing their work as they go and also talking to them before they start. Once the work is done it is just as hard to get them back for a builder as it is a home owner. It is probably the most important aspect of construction management, on going and repetive quality control otherwise your life would become a nightmare.

      For the ones that slip through the cracks there is always financial aspect of withholding their money, but I try to maintain good relationships with my subcontractors so they just come back and fix what is required and it never becomes an argument of money.

      I would say at most once a year and more often than not a contractor I have never worked with before, something would go wrong and the above doesn't work and things get a bit smelly.

      • psdillon on 25/05/2020 - 12:25

        Thanks, great to know. I had just had two houses built and the builder seemed to be OK with quality control in some areas and lax in others, which was a massive burden on me to document, track and argue about, and in general the stress of dealing with a sometimes difficult personality that I could not fire. I wondered if that energy would have been better spent being an owner builder and engaging tradies myself. Though without a network I'm sure it would be a disaster. And I am sure there are a hundred pitfalls I would have fallen into as a completely inexperienced owner builder, especially mistakes in the plans.

        • Jackson on 25/05/2020 - 23:17

          The biggest risk is they will take you for a ride. Even if you know 90% of the job, they will make some crap up about the 10% you don't know and suddenly you are up for an extra few grand. Tradies work hard and often feel like they are being ripped off, unless you know them well, have a relationship, or they know you are going to give them repeat business, they don't give a crap about ripping you off

          Even if just 1 in 5 is like that, you could have a couple easily on your job

        • TheBilly on 27/05/2020 - 11:35

          An owner builder and engaging tradies myself. Though without a network I'm sure it would be a disaster.

          Never say never, worthwhile if cost is not the biggest factor as you will not compete on price with a big volume builder. Likewise owner builder financing is difficult to non existent these days, so you will be reliant on savings mainly.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2020 - 12:26

    Have you seen any good design for a 2 bedroom house / unit?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 17:45

      It is really hard to determine what a good design is as everyone has individual tastes. For me I really liked a rectangular 2 bedroom apartment layout. Imagine a rectangle and on the right hand side of the entry door you have the laundry and bathroom then 2 bedrooms. On the left hand side you have the kitchen next to the entry which overlooks the living area and balcony.

      • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 18:57

        Cheers! My question was more relating to a house. I have a friend who has just bought a plot of land of around 280 sqm ( 15.2 m x 18.5 m) anwould like to build a 2-bedroom , 1 bath on it. She's looked around and it appears that none of the volume builders offers 2-bedrooms homes.Is her only option to go custom?

        • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 19:57
          +1

          What state? Yes you are right regarding the volume builders, they generally suit their designs to the blocks that can be found in the major current land developments. I ask what state because in Sydney the 280m2 blocks in the south west (Austral, Leppington) fluctuate around the 10x28 range or slightly wider, and most volume builders have designed to suit this and not a more square block. Her block is very square and may require a custom builder. Don't be disheartened, a custom design builder is not an expensive builder, they are just a custom builder. In Sydney for example my pricing was not far off from some volume builders, the only difference was they had a fixed design and I had a fixed size and number of bedrooms and bathrooms, it would only cost more if you increase the size but you could put walls as you liked.

          Also another consideration is, why 2 bedroom? does she have the budget for a double storey house? if so you can fit more rooms by going up and likewise if she sells in 5-10 years it will be a more marketable house as you will not get much interest for a 2 bedroom.

          • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 20:31

            @TheBilly: Thank you @TheBilly. Unfortunately, she's in Vic.

            Also another consideration is, why 2 bedroom?

            This is going to be her forever home and as it is only her and her dog, she just wants something simple. This is roughly what she had in mind. Possibly with the inclusion of a separate laundry room with a pet door. Would she need an architect for something like that? or do you just go directly to a builder?

            • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 22:32
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: You can go directly to a custom builder who may have in house designers or the correct resources to outsource this to somebody capable. If it is a forever home, then custom is the way, make it exactly how she wants.

              For example, I am a custom builder while I don't have my own architect yet because I am a small business I can actually design myself and have it reviewed and signed off (not technically correct way of doing it) or I can just subcontract to a close partner. Either way the builder can be involved from day one and can consider things such as budget and build ability in the process of designing.

              Pay close attention to the structural elements that cannot be changed easily later. They don't cost much to do at the start but will cost thousands later. Ceiling heights, window sizes, door openings etc.

              • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 22:35
                +1

                @TheBilly: Cheers! :)

        • Brick Tamland on 26/05/2020 - 09:51
          +1

          Hi Jar Jar Binks,

          Has your friend checked out Homebuyer centre? they have a few 2 bedroom designs.

          https://vic.homebuyers.com.au/home-designs/bedrooms/2/sort/f…

          • [Deactivated] on 26/05/2020 - 10:17

            @Brick Tamland: Thank you. Will do :)

            Edit: All the 2 bedrooms design are for narrower blocks. Hers is almost 16m wide. Custom is the way to go I think to make the most of it.

  • jonkvh on 23/05/2020 - 16:54

    Posting for reminder.

  • nascar77 on 23/05/2020 - 18:54

    Recently I saw some houses being build with steel frames instead of wood. Do you this as the future.
    Is it cheaper?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 12:06

      I don't think it's the future. I just think it's an alternative to consider. Steel frame houses have been around for a while. Like wise timber and steel both have their positives and negatives and are suitable to different environments. It's a bit like unleaded vs diesel excluding the environmental impact of diesel.

  • curious101 on 23/05/2020 - 19:57

    Hi Bud, For rough ball park figures, how much is the builder margin on the jobs on a standard 220-250 meter square house? Do you think if I study well and build a house myself, without a builder, and by getting sub-contractars directly myself - I would be able to get a 30-40% saving ? What would you earn me about. Alternatively, how I can save money hole building a house, without compromising on the quality/safety. I am willing to read books and research, but have never even lifted a hammer and have no idea about construction in general.

    • Dundundunnnn on 24/05/2020 - 09:11
      +1

      not a chance. As a builder/estimator I can assure you builders do not make anywhere near those numbers ordinarily. A builder usually is in the vicinity of 12-25% gross profit margin. This means the builder has to pay all his overhead allowances out of this gross profit to arrive at their net margin which is in the vicinity of 2% to 12% depending on the size of the business. A builder will have superior buying power with suppliers and will leverage better pricing from trades you are going to be able to negotiate. As a medium size builder we have delivered slabs for $17k that smaller builders next door were quoted and happily paid $42k. I'd hate to see what an owner builder would be charged. I believe an owner builder who skimped, saved, imported product, using questionable trades and giving up their entire life to do labour themselves could very likely save 5-10% but is the quality going to be there? The next challenge is actually getting finance, lenders don't like owner builders.

      • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 11:04
        +3

        This is correct. The margin is just not there. Money is made in quick building times, high volumes and over utilisation of resources along with supplier agreements.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 11:04
      +2

      The answer below from Dun is quite accurate.

  • ppp13 on 23/05/2020 - 21:56

    Hey TheBilly, thanks for your helping nature.
    I've built this house with a builder 18 months ago. Recently I found out that they missed to install whirlybird as per contract. I've asked them but they said it was not necessary for this house. Do you think that is optional ? Can I force builder some how to make them install ?

    • Dundundunnnn on 24/05/2020 - 09:13

      if its clearly shown in the contract as being included and hasn't been varied out at any later stage then yes. How you 'force' is the question. Usually there is a period for maintenance/defects where you could mention it and document it and they would just do it. After that you have to involve third parties like NCAT/QCAT/Fair Trading to instruct the builder. Not free and not without effort. Is a $200 whirly bird worth your time?

      • serpserpserp on 24/05/2020 - 10:19
        +1

        if its clearly shown in the contract as being included and hasn't been varied out at any later stage then yes.

        Is a $200 whirly bird worth your time?

        Herein lies the complete problem with the building industry. There is no penalty for not honouring contracts on many things. A builder should be happy to honour a contract for a $200 whirly bird and come back and install it.

        • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 11:01
          +2

          Agree. In the commercial space where you deal with government clients and private corporations you never get away with it. If it's in the contract you do it. The issue is when the builder is dealing with a home owner.

        • Dundundunnnn on 24/05/2020 - 15:06

          I 100% agree they should. Certainly the company i work for would in a heartbeat. It was more of an attempt to highlight to the poster the challenges they may experience. They might be lucky that a 2 minute call to the builder and roofer resolves it. It may however drag out over an extended period of time. They may also dictate you have to be home during the day for them to attend and provide access. Lots of variables.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 10:59
      +1

      I'm not too sure about the force part, I personally don't like things to go so far so have never been taken or gone down this path. Generally speaking if I allow for it I do it. In this instance the builder should probably do it. They may be very lazy about this because they would already have paid the roofing contractor who was meant to install it, so to get somebody back to complete this will come out of their pocket as they also have no recourse to chase the roofing contractor. Some big builders also know like the comment below that it is a $200 item so how hard will you chase? likewise the whole it's not needed is just an excuse, whirly birds are effective and while they may not be needed they do help.

      • ppp13 on 24/05/2020 - 11:20

        Thank you all for your thoughts.
        One thing is clear, there is always something builder can escape/hide. And nobody or no business is perfect. Still I feel Australia has some good laws and some people still try to break.

      • funnysht on 24/05/2020 - 12:07
        +3

        why would you say it is $200 item..i mean the whirlbird itself is $200 but to install it probably cost another $200-300 so all up it is a $500 upwards item? I mean that's just stealing $500, it's the same as shoplifting?

        • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 18:36

          Yes, generally speaking though a builder will just package it with a roofer so they don't see the smaller figures, to them it might just be this many m2 of roof at $X plus 3 whirly birds etc etc = $15,000. If you get what I mean? Once you have to come back for some thing that is when it gets expensive and probably why the builder is being dodgy.

      • ppp13 on 30/05/2020 - 17:12

        I have asked builder about it and they say it is not included in contract.
        I could find in contract as https://ibb.co/7vrZ0QP
        Hope my english understanding is okay. What do you think @TheBilly about that wording please ? But I have not find any thing on house drawings.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 22:45
      +1

      How come it took you 18 months to notice that the whirlybird was missing?

    • THICKnSLOW on 25/05/2020 - 13:21

      Wouldn't it also be the homeowner responsibility and due diligence to check the contract along with what was supplied and built 18 months ago?? Wouldn't that be the first response from the builder, as opposed to 'nah you don't need it'?

      Sounds like both sides didn't do due diligence.

      • TheBilly on 27/05/2020 - 11:37

        Slippery slope how far back do you take it, in my opinion, just do the work you priced and move on with good relations.

  • Kim007 on 24/05/2020 - 00:45

    Hi Billy,

    Love your work!

    I'm from Perth WA and we have been in a flat market for quite some time. What would you suggest the best way to make money in such market?

    Also, looking at a potential renovation. Purchase price about 400k. How much would you budget for a medium specs renovation including:
    - replace kitchen
    - replace bathroom
    - add extra bathroom to turn 3x1 into 3x2
    - paint inside
    - paint outside

    Thanks in advance :)

    • serpserpserp on 24/05/2020 - 10:25

      Also, looking at a potential renovation

      There is no way that a builder from NSW could tell you how much it'd cost in Perth to do this. Also without knowing square meterage, type of house, access, etc. You can't price the kitchen/bathroom stuff.

      You could probably just go get a few quotes for the painting. But the cheapest way to do it is yourself.

      • Euphemistic on 24/05/2020 - 12:22
        +1

        It’s easy. Kitchen: $30k. Bathroom: $20k. Paint: DIY, $1k for materials.

      • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 18:45

        This is true, you cannot replace inspecting and measuring to firm up a price.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 18:44
      +1

      I'm from Perth WA and we have been in a flat market for quite some time. What would you suggest the best way to make money in such market?

      I don't think I'm fit to comment on something like that, particularly as my main means of making money is my career / business / skill which is being a builder. A property developer is something completely different. In terms of investing I have dabbled in property and the only advice I can give is that numbers dont lie. Do the maths and forecast before going into it. There are spreadsheets available online, if you are interested in property investment specifically look at a spreadsheet like so.

      https://www.investmentpropertycalculator.com.au/free-investm…

      I have not personally used this spreadsheet but the point Im making is once you have comprehensively done the numbers on an investment this will give you the confidence to go in knowing what lies ahead.

      Also, looking at a potential renovation. Purchase price about 400k. How much would you budget for a medium specs renovation including:
      - replace kitchen
      - replace bathroom
      - add extra bathroom to turn 3x1 into 3x2
      - paint inside
      - paint outside

      About $50k-$70k if you were in Sydney. Adding a bathroom can get expensive and this may involve the cutting of slabs and running new floor wastes and this is not cheap. Likewise kitchen appliances are not cheap either, a quick look at any online appliance store would give you and indication you may have $5k cost right there.

  • sillyguy on 24/05/2020 - 11:41

    Thanks for doing this!

    My friends (who built their houses) all hate builders for some reasons. You know why?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:09
      +8

      Yes, I have heard the same from people who have used volume builders and it was a very bad experience. However I will share the blame here. The volume builders generally have a lot of competition and the consumer wants the lowest price - so this is how the market has set itself up to deal with this transaction issue… It is not in a builders interest to price everything in up front and inflate their price when they know at Home World Display Centre the consumer is likely to go next door and get a deflated price essentially taking them out of the running. So what the builder does is coerce the consumer with a rock bottom price and then gives them a contract written in their favour, that keeps most of the items of work provisional or open for change depending on what the end result is. If something ends up costing more they just charge the consumer, who was not expecting this extra cost, giving the consumer a sour taste in their mouth and also the problem of going back to the bank to ask for more money. This is very common for things such as, sloping blocks, excess soil removal, finishes selection, power points and lights. What a lot of consumers do not know is that the house they saw on display costs $100k to $150k more than the price they originally tell you.

      When you are making a life decision like building a house, if this is not the biggest let down/bait and switch you will ever experience I don't know what is. When you were expecting to walk into a kitchen with stone tops, big appliances, 10 down lights and 2 pendants and all you get is a laminate bench, one light batten with a globe out the side and cheap appliances you will hate builders also.

      But unfortunately consumers want the cheapest price and the builder wants the work, so this is the way things are done.

      • sillyguy on 25/05/2020 - 20:24

        Thanks for the honest answer.

        I wasn’t being sarcastic…

        Not now, but is it a possibility for me to call you when I am ready to build?

        • TheBilly on 27/05/2020 - 11:39

          That is fair enough, I'm not surprised there is this impression out there, but it is just the reality of the industry and it is unlikely to change.

  • funnysht on 24/05/2020 - 12:04

    There have been a lot of issues with newer apartments. Do you think that it's because of lazy site supervsiors/builders or just incompetence? Do you think the big apartment builders are much better? I would personally stay away from new apartments

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:17
      +1

      There have been a lot of issues with newer apartments. Do you think that it's because of lazy site supervsiors/builders or just incompetence?

      It's hard to say and lay blanket blame on what could be hundred different issues. I have seen issues associated with lazy supervision, poor design, poor workmanship, stupidity. You can only look at each item and determine what it was by going through it.

      Overwhelmingly though, I would say it is a lack of experience across the board. During the last decade Australia construction boom has demanded a lot of bums on seats, in some instances they just need somebody there doing work despite their level of experience. This will then result in negligent decision making, resulting in defects. This goes for builders, architects, engineers, subcontractors no body is exempt from the blame.

      Do you think the big apartment builders are much better?

      No they are not better. Sometimes smaller is better because they have more liability. Big apartment developers have their wealth tied into offshore accounts and international corporations, some small developers may have put their entire life into that one unit block you are buying into, so you they have their life riding on it's success. I know two developers like this one of whom I have worked for. Likewise with me, I am a builder, a small builder, if I make mistakes my personal wealth is secured against my projects so if I do something extremely bad, there goes my house. I cannot say the same for a builder that turns over 2,000 houses a year. Small is not always bad, it's just different.

      I would personally stay away from new apartments

      I have worked for builders building apartment blocks and this is not always the case. Some are of really good quality, however unfortunately for the consumer you can cannot determine whether this is the case, neither can I unless I know the builder personally or have seen it constructed my self.

  • Ozie on 24/05/2020 - 12:44

    How much will it cost to install a bathtub in an apartment main bathroom in Sydney?

    Also the cost of replacing carpet with mid range quality timber flooring?

    And will Building corporation generally allow this?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:23

      How much will it cost to install a bathtub in an apartment main bathroom in Sydney?

      This will need to go through your building corporation. All apartment pipework that goes into your floor is popping out of somebody else ceiling cavity below you. So to install a bath tub you will have to core drill the slab to run the pipe (I can't explain this concisely but if it is a post tension slab core drilling is not easy either - you will have to xray the slab to ensure there is no tension cable in the way). Likewise depending on what is below you, that individuals ceiling may need to be demolished to run the pipe work and then replaced later. I would not think this would cost less than $10k but it will need to be inspected.

      Also the cost of replacing carpet with mid range quality timber flooring?

      I would say $100 per m2 supply and install - I'm not sure what you mean by mid range but you can get much cheaper than this and much more expensive than this as well.

      And will Building corporation generally allow this?

      Bath tub yes, Floor yes but to a lesser extent as the corporation will want to know about the coming and going of tradesman but on the same note don't care if you change from carpet to timber.

      • Ozie on 24/05/2020 - 21:06

        Thanks heaps

  • Sbog4215 on 24/05/2020 - 13:04

    Thanks for doing this Billy.

    My parents in Sydney have really struggled to find a builder to renovate their house. It's a fairly big project. They'll provide the plan, but then never hear back. It's always "we'll get back to you soon". The few quotes they did receive either didn't include a lot of potential costs, they suggest pay as you go without offering an estimate, or they seemed outrageous (eg double what my parents had originally expected).

    I guess my questions are: How can my parents judge whether a quote they have received is fair? And how can I help them find a reliable and fair builder?

    Thanks for your time!

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:34
      +2

      I guess my questions are: How can my parents judge whether a quote they have received is fair? And how can I help them find a reliable and fair builder?

      I believe it is like a job interview. If the person you are dealing with is not professional and knowledgeable they are unlikely to do a good job. This can be picked up in the way they speak, behave, how they treat you, how they answer your questions - do they just say anything to answer the question or do they think it through. These characteristics will generally play out on how they manage your project and will result in a good or bad experience.

      I am unsure where to find a reliable fair builder, where are your parents located (PM) me - I may be able to recommend someone in the area if I'm familiar with it.

      If they have received lump sum quotes? how many? 2-3? if that is the case, and they are still coming in high do you feel that is the market price for the work? When I do my projects sometimes I price a trade incorrectly and under allow, I may go out and get more quotes for this and if I get 3 quotes and they are all high then I just clench my jaw and get on with it because that is where the market is. It's not what people like to hear, but for me that is the difference between me sitting there mulling for 3 months and trying to find a cheaper price that may or may not come versus just doing the job faster so my overheads are lower and correcting that mistake next time.

      I would highly discourage a pay as you go arrangement, they will be in a world of hurt. Do not do this.

      Are your parents financing this through a bank? if not have they considered doing this as an owner builder? There are a lot of factors to consider but they could engage somebody on a consulting basis to guide them through this process.

      • Sbog4215 on 25/05/2020 - 09:59

        Thanks for the reply Bill, I really appreciate it.

        I'll send you a PM re. their location.

  • gromit on 24/05/2020 - 13:13

    Over the years I have seen some truly appalling builders that take short cuts and screw people over. e.g. my parents came home early to inspect the work being done to build an interior wall only to find the builder in the backyard hurling the bricks over the fence into the creek ( he had done a half arsed job on the interior wall and planned to cover it up before my parents saw so no one would be the wiser.

    Where is the best place to find decent builders, do you know of a good website or association that doesn't stand for crap work that you refer people too? or is it still very much word of mouth.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 18:05

      He'll get back to you soon.

      • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 22:34
        +1

        Alot of typing lol

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:37
      +1

      Over the years I have seen some truly appalling builders that take short cuts and screw people over. e.g. my parents came home early to inspect the work being done to build an interior wall only to find the builder in the backyard hurling the bricks over the fence into the creek ( he had done a half arsed job on the interior wall and planned to cover it up before my parents saw so no one would be the wiser.

      That is so bad, but ultimately the result of a lack of supervision. Builder relying on subcontractor, but not checking up on him them. How did the builder react once reported?

      Where is the best place to find decent builders, do you know of a good website or association that doesn't stand for crap work that you refer people too? or is it still very much word of mouth.

      Unfortunately I don't know, for me it is word of mouth. As said in post above yours I believe it is like a job interview, you can get the best builder in the world on his first project out of his apprenticeship or working for somebody else, or you could get the worst builder in the world who has been ripping people off for 20 years. I believe the quality of the builder correlates with their passion to the work.

      • gromit on 24/05/2020 - 20:44

        I don't know what the builders reaction was, this was a good 10 or so years back now, I do know the entire contract was cancelled and the builder had to pay for a couple of new pallets of bricks which my parents then got another builder to dismantle the wall and rebuild. From what I heard the brickie was very close to ending up in the creek along with the bricks, my step father was a former carpenter/builder himself and at the time was built like the proverbial brick sh1thouse.

        thanks for your input though, I guess it is still very much talk to people that have worked with the various builders to see what their experience was.

        • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 22:35

          Treat it like a job interview. If a guy is very blaze and dismissive, he probably manages his work this way which is not good for you. Pick up on the signs etc.

  • hongas on 24/05/2020 - 13:22
    +2

    What a great information here. just want to thank you for the time to reply.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:38
      +5

      Cheers mate, it's reciprocal. I'm getting more than I'm giving. Think of it like owning an electronics store, where you only help one person a week for a year. Then all of a sudden you have 200 people walk through the door in a day, that is a great learning opportunity.

  • OG Puppy Banana on 24/05/2020 - 14:05

    Love your commitment to the forums, Billy!

    I had a quick one. Are builders keen on doing walkthroughs of dilapidated lots with prospective buyers, in a consulting capacity? If so, what's a fair and reasonable price to pay for the walkthrough and a report that articulates all things that should be considered?

    Example - Someone wants to buy the worst house on the best street but doesn't know the difference between a drill and a saw. They need the expertise to firm up a reasonable offer and potentially a chance to build up some confidence with a builder.

    Is this a service that is commonly offered? If so, what would be a reasonable price for this service and an appropriate way to engage a builder?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:42
      +1

      Love your commitment to the forums, Billy!

      Cheers

      I had a quick one. Are builders keen on doing walk through of dilapidated lots with prospective buyers, in a consulting capacity? If so, what's a fair and reasonable price to pay for the walk through and a report that articulates all things that should be considered? Example - Someone wants to buy the worst house on the best street but doesn't know the difference between a drill and a saw. They need the expertise to firm up a reasonable offer and potentially a chance to build up some confidence with a builder. Is this a service that is commonly offered? If so, what would be a reasonable price for this service and an appropriate way to engage a builder?

      This is treading a fine line between a builder and a building inspector. A building inspector would typically inspect the property before you purchase and identify defects. You are proposing to take it a step further and getting information on how much work it would take to get the house looking great (from a renovation sense). I personally do not know anyone offering this service and don't believe there is a big market for this, but a defects inspection can cost any where between $500 and $1000, a similar inspection to what you are saying would cost around the same or a little more. I can't say anymore as I haven't ever been approached for something like this, but I have had family and friends just get general advice over the phone (I'm looking at so and so, what do you think).

      • OG Puppy Banana on 25/05/2020 - 12:38

        I understand - thank you for your time to provide a really detailed answer! I hope it helps more people in the community than just me.

  • GourmetFoodie on 24/05/2020 - 14:06

    Hi mate, this is awesome of you. Thanks.

    Question - For provisional sums in fixed priced building contracts, how would you usually expect the builder to engage with the client around excesses? Should they share quotes with you, get your OK before sign-off and how much variance would you typically expect?

    E.g. we just had our slab laid (prov sum) and with zero engagement, the builder sent us a bill for a 15% excess above the provisional amount which amounted to almost $10k!

    We are now pretty nervous about the provisional sum figures we have for cabinetry and stone and wondering if these are going to blow out too / how to avoid this.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:52
      +2

      It should all be defined in your contract. I don't want to dishearten you but in the commercial construction space a provisional sum is only allocated to those items upon which the builder does not want the financial risk as they cannot estimate it, likewise because they have given up the financial risk the contracts are written in a way that they also give up the financial benefit, so they cannot profit from this. I.e. they have to only charge cost price plus 10% to manage the work and have to justify it by way of quotations or invoices from the sub-contractor doing the work. I believe this is fair and the commercial clients have generally developed this understanding over a number of projects or via the advice of their project managers.

      Unfortunately in the residential space this is not so clear cut. Residential home builders do not wear the risk but do wear the benefit as you have stated above as the contracts are written that way. Confirm what your contract says for provisional sums but don't be disheartened if it is not what you want to see. One bit of advice is that the provisional sum is generally defined, and what I mean by that is. They should have said this concrete slab price is based on say (this many square meters of slab) (this many square meters of drop edge beams) (this many meters of piers) (this much soil removal) - so they should also be able to justify how they went over this by way of concrete supply dockets, soil tip removal, drop edge beam measure on site, piers measure onsite. Be careful though, they will see this as coming very hard at them, as residential builders are note used to this from home owners. Likewise for your cabinets and joinery you should have a certain number of meters or something defining what that provisional sum is. If they just put a figure against it and no other definition then I would be worried.

      • GourmetFoodie on 28/05/2020 - 20:27

        Thanks so much mate for replying. This is an amazing thread for future reference and I will come back to it! Especially loved you saying do a walk-through of the house in the heavy rain if possible before handover!

        We definitely made a mistake by not getting some of our prov items properly defined - big lesson learned for future. It wasn't a failure up on our end as looking back in the contract, some of it is pretty detailed but the cabinetry item was the weak point…sigh!

  • Jaystea on 24/05/2020 - 14:14

    Do you need council approval if you wanted to pour levelling concrete in your garage, or build a carport (structural pine with sheet roofing)?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:53
      +1

      Do you need council approval if you wanted to pour levelling concrete in your garage?

      No, just be careful of thickness though. If concrete is poured too thin it will crack or literally peel up at the edges over time.

      or build a carport (structural pine with sheet roofing)?

      Exempt development as stated above by euphemistic. May need to check with your local council first though.

  • Hansi on 24/05/2020 - 14:22

    Do you have enough young people joining the industry? Is there demand for young apprentices?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 20:56
      +1

      Yes, before Covid, has died off a little. There are many young people entering the industry, it is a very different space from 30 years ago. It was a very male dominated industry where age prevailed, from what my colleagues tell me. But we now get a lot of young workers, women, outright young guns and tech heads that just change the concept of efficiency etc. I think it is great.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 14:34
    +1

    Thank you for taking the time and doing this Billy.

    If one intends to renovate their kitchen, how should they go about determining whether a builder is a good one, or one who take shortcuts sacrificing quality for profit? Testimonials, recommendations? etc.?

    Sorry for the novice question, I never dealt with a builder before so I just don't know how to zero in on a builder.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:01
      +2

      I have said above it comes down to the professionalism of the individual and how they come across. For example, I recently used a wardrobe contractor for my own home off gum tree. He came, he measured, wrote a quote on a piece of paper, gave it too me, explained to email him once we go ahead and pay a deposit of X amount and he will respond with a install date. It was all over in 5 minutes and 1 week passed and the installation was just as quick and efficient.

      He didn't say much, he had no testimonials, the wardrobes are working great to this day. He was just clear cut efficient and professional.

      This is a really difficult question to answer because I engage people every day for work so it is more natural than it would be for somebody else. But ultimately, I'm paying somebody to do a wardrobe and that is the limit of the transaction, I don't need him to be nice and talk about my puppy for 30 minutes and then wait 3 days for him to quote me for such a small task, take my deposit and not show up for a month.

      I hope this is painting the picture?

  • Cherry12 on 24/05/2020 - 15:13

    Hi Billy,

    If I wanted an extension of an extra room in my house. What's the average rough price for a 3x3 room? Do i also need an architect or just a builder?

    For a wall (2 LM long) inside the house, do I need permits? Rough cost?

    Thanks!

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:14

      Sorry I'm not reading this correctly, is it just adding a 2m long wall in the existing house?

      (1) If you are extending the existing foot print of the house this is the most expensive option and will require council approval. It could cost up to 40k depending on the site conditions (is it a concrete slab, is it a sub floor etc). because you will need to construct a new slab, walls (internal and external), roof to accommodate the new room.

      (2) If you are just putting in a new wall to cordon off a new room within the existing footprint of the house, this will be cheap and you can probably do it via a handyman of some sort for 5k and may even get a wardrobe in that price if you shop around.

      • Cherry12 on 24/05/2020 - 23:51

        Well, I want an extra bedroom in the house.

        I'd prefer to have an extension (buid a brand new room attached to the house-1 storey house) but if it costs $40 K for a 3x3 room it is too expensive.

        The other option is to divide our 2nd living room (which looks like a long room) and convert it onto a small studio/craft room and a bedroom. It would then need 2 walls.

        Thanks!

  • Emerald Owl on 24/05/2020 - 17:55

    Do you think you make more per hour than an average white collar worker? I’ve seen people scoff at being paid $50 an hour cash.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:16

      How much is the average white collar worker? I have some banking and finance friends who are close to me in a job than what I earn in business and they get the perks of annual leave and sick leave. Construction pays well in my opinion, but I don't do average hours for example, most days I'm up at 4.30am and don't get home till 6.30pm so if I aggregated my earnings I'd be worse off than them.

      • Jackson on 25/05/2020 - 23:59

        Median is more important than average, I believe for what people consider "white collar' it's probably about 80 to 85k. In the old days white collar meant you were working in the office, usually overseeing a sea of factory workers. These days it's the new normal (basically the new factory worker)

        Having said that the median for white collar workers that frequent ozbargain is about 150k :)

        • TheBilly on 27/05/2020 - 11:44
          +1

          You can earn $150k working for somebody else in construction - mainly commercial and high rise residential (mind you after years of experience). But it will not be easy (6.30am starts and 5.30pm finishes) plus Saturdays. There is no option to downgrade your contact hours so the package and the stress are hand in hand, you can't take a reduced salary to work less because the project will just need you there for that duration.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 18:11
    +6

    I've no interest in building a house but this is a really high quality AMA! Kudos to The Billy for sharing their experience, but also advising in a restrained and intelligent manner.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:17
      +5

      Thank you

  • Tin Nguyen on 24/05/2020 - 18:46
    +1

    Do you recommend any pathways that might be economically sustainable in the future and makes just as much money as a builder does. I am currently an electrician apprentice and looking at pathways to get more money, becoming a builder was one of them.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:23
      +1

      I believe that business is the way. You don't necessarily have to recreate the future like Facebook and google, or even become a builder, but you can just undertake a business and this gives you much more control over the money you earn. For example, a sole trader does not have to pay superannuation so even if you worked on an hourly rate you pocket 9.5% more than the next guy. If you like being an electrician you can make a lot of money in that field. Make your business model easy to digest for your clients, for example; you might want to wire up houses for a living. Figure out what residential electricians charging and package this up into a point basis. Hammer out a hundred emails to builders saying "I'm a sparky - I charge $30 per power, $30 per light, $500 per DB (examples only) and then see what you come back with. That way everyone is clear cut on what you offer and how much it is, it might take a couple to give you a go, but all you then have to focus on is delivering those power points and lights at the rate you promised.

      Lets say you get a couple of jobs and a time comes where you can't keep up anymore. You then scale up, hire an apprentice, hire another team of 2 etc etc. You can scale up what you are good at, you don't have to recreate the wheel.

  • Lurkermclurkerson on 24/05/2020 - 20:00

    I’m going to be building my first home on a new block in the next year. We’re going with a local company to build it (custom townhouse) and I luckily have the opportunity to put some extra money into the property. However, I don’t really know what I should be prioritising. Any tips for what are key things to spend a little extra on from the start? Also, anything that’s just a waste of money or not worth investing in? We have about an extra 50k to pump in.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:26
      +1

      Structural changes that will cost you an arm and a leg to do later. When you say custom townhouse, is this the type of house or referring to a company? I would focus on first - opening sizes, window sizes, ceiling heights, layout, then if you have change - in wall service and in ceiling services like AC and Plumbing and Power Points. If you cover these items there is a lot less destructive works later.

  • jesho on 24/05/2020 - 20:34

    Hi Billy,

    Thanks for doing this, it's really insightful. I'm looking to buy a home in the next 12-18 months. I've heard from a few friends that it's best to buy an old house with decent land. Reasons are: it's really expensive getting decent land when buying new (500sqm +) and the construction quality of older houses are a lot better than newly constructed houses. I've heard things like large builders (Metricon etc) are volume builders and cut a lot of corners in the pursuit of profit.

    I've also considered if I do build /subdivide to hire an external party to inspect the build for me at key stages. Is this a good idea to keep a builder honest or would it just piss them off?

    Thanks again!

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:33

      I'm looking to buy a home in the next 12-18 months. I've heard from a few friends that it's best to buy an old house with decent land. Reasons are: it's really expensive getting decent land when buying new (500sqm +) and the construction quality of older houses are a lot better than newly constructed houses. I've heard things like large builders (Metricon etc) are volume builders and cut a lot of corners in the pursuit of profit.

      My opinion is flexible, one thing is that all homes are built to a standard. While some defective works are done and the builder tries to get away without fixing, a lot of homes I have seen are generally good and builders are governed by insurance liabilities and external parties such as architects, engineers and Australian standards.

      I personally faced this decision and chose to build because I had the flexibility to build the house exactly how I wanted, I was not getting this from the market in an existing house. If you find an existing house that you love, this would be good for you. But old versus new is just a experience based opinion nothing more.

      One thing though is old (I'm talking 60 year old) hardwood timber homes have an indestructible frame. You can barely screw and nail into this timber, so I do get the whole old is better.

      Would it just piss them off?

      Do you care though? you are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars with whoever this person is, they should be concerned about pissing you off and taking care of you, I wouldn't discourage this and think it's a good idea.

  • Garbotoxin on 24/05/2020 - 20:35

    Thanks for doing this - I'm actually in the midst of having my home built in SEQ at the moment and my building supervisor has just informed me an estiamted handover date to be the end of June.

    Is it always better to source our own contractors rather than going through the building company for things like turfing, fencing, driveway/perimeter concreting etc? Reason I ask is looking at this from a costs perspective and I've been told that building companies tend to have a larger markup obviously to make more money.

    Do you have any advice/pointers that I should be looking at for during PC stage?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:40
      +20

      Do a thorough inspection of home and give them the defects list to rectify early. You don't have to do this on the PC walk, but do it very early.

      1. May not be so lucky but inspect the property during a heavy rainfall and look at what happens at down pipes and gutters, look at where the water flows, do storm water drains get the water away - anything look odd raise it.
      2. Flush your toilets 10 times - preferably a few times with toilet paper… if you can afford it.
      3. Leave the taps running for 10 minutes.
      4. Pour water on your tiles and make sure it goes to the floor waste
      5. Flood shower and see if water gets out (spray the head every where)
      6. Check all your power points work, check all lights work, check security works
      7. Leave AC running for 30 minutes from a hot house and see if it cools and then vice versa
      8. Check the operation of all doors, windows, cabinets… check for scraping, jamming hinges etc.
      9. Look under your bathroom doors do they paint the bottoms, do they paint behind the hinges on door and frame
      10. appliances working
      11. walk in each room, stand in the middle and spin around slowly for 5 -10 seconds, if anything aesthetically sticks out to you that is an issue raise it, if not, it's most likely ok
      12. make sure they have cleaned construction debris from window glass and jambs

      There are more, but this should cover a lot.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2020 - 20:38
    +1

    I'm building a new house and want to add soundproofing between rooms. It is a double storey brick home.
    1. When is a good time to put them in myself? I was going to go with Earthwool R2.0 from bunnings. Will the builders get annoyed with me if I do this?
    2. How do I approach this on the 2nd storey? Bring my own ladder?

    Thank you in advance.

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:47

      I'm building a new house and want to add soundproofing between rooms. It is a double storey brick home. 1. When is a good time to put them in myself? I was going to go with Earthwool R2.0 from bunnings. Will the builders get annoyed with me if I do this?

      Just ask them, I personally wouldn't mind but some may have concerns around how you will install it around things like power cables and outlets and such, sometimes it is just cheaper and easier to get the contractor to do it. The rate you will be getting from bunnings is not very competitive, try and get a quote from builder and be nice and tell them to do it as cheap as possible. It will take 1 guy a day to do plus supply of material (1 man x $65 x 8 = $520 + material). I would recommend doing this before gyprock sheeting.

      1. How do I approach this on the 2nd storey? Bring my own ladder?

      Do you mean in between the floor joists between the first and second story or do you mean, the ceiling on the second level (so just under your roof). Just check with the builder, they may already be doing the insulation to the ceiling just under the roof. If not, then once again get a quote, and compare. They may not want you to do this if it is just under the roof because as the gyprocker will need to install his ceiling sheets, they usually install one sheet then throw the gyprock over the top, sheet by sheet. There is a very good chance they will be done within one hour, and you may hold them up if they are sheeting and you are doing the insulation.

  • bookimal on 24/05/2020 - 20:53

    Hi Billy,
    My builder is in the final stages of completing our brand new home (everything but landscaping) and we're having a pre handover inspection this week! What are some things to look out for which may not be obvious at first glance?
    Thanks!!

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:48

      Refer to above @ clintyip post

      Do a thorough inspection of home and give them the defects list to rectify early. You don't have to do this on the PC walk, but do it very early. May not be so lucky but inspect the property during a heavy rainfall and look at what happens at down pipes and gutters, look at where the water flows, do storm water drains get the water away - anything look odd raise it.Flush your toilets 10 times - preferably a few times with toilet paper… if you can afford it.Leave the taps running for 10 minutes.Pour water on your tiles and make sure it goes to the floor wasteFlood shower and see if water gets out (spray the head every where)Check all your power points work, check all lights work, check security worksLeave AC running for 30 minutes from a hot house and see if it cools and then vice versaCheck the operation of all doors, windows, cabinets… check for scraping, jamming hinges etc.Look under your bathroom doors do they paint the bottoms, do they paint behind the hinges on door and frame appliances workingwalk in each room, stand in the middle and spin around slowly for 5 -10 seconds, if anything aesthetically sticks out to you that is an issue raise it, if not, it's most likely ok
      make sure they have cleaned construction debris from window glass and jambs
      There are more, but this should cover a lot.

  • lunartemis on 24/05/2020 - 21:09

    I moved into a newly built house about 18 months ago; what potential maintenance or issues will I likely to watch out for in the near future?

    • TheBilly on 24/05/2020 - 21:58
      +1

      Congrats, 18 months is very new. Generally speaking not a lot should go wrong in this period. The items that usually start becoming a problem are things like grout in bathrooms (showers) if installed poorly will start to pop out and will need to be re done ASAP. Blocked drains from use such as kitchen grease. Lighting globes from poor quality down lights. Movement in the walls and cracking at joints (not a big deal just keep an eye on this). Any signs of mould inside or out, could mean that water/moisture is not getting away. Concrete or tiles cracking. Generally speaking a well built and designed house shouldn't be having major issues or maintenance issues in 18 months.

      • lunartemis on 25/05/2020 - 09:00

        Thanks Billy,
        I haven't noticed anything major apart from slight gaps (no more than 1mm) from earth movement (due to new estate), which we have filled.

        Is it worth paying a professional to do thorough inspection?

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