Used car buyer complaining

LSashy on 21/05/2020 - 19:58

Hello,
I have recently just sold my car (10 years old) and have looked after it very well (always filled up 98% petrol), serviced at the dealership. Never had any mechanical issues with it.
I had it serviced and a RWC issued two weeks before listing it for sale. The buyer urgently needed a car, spent an hour inspecting and test driving it and haggling the price down. I didn't go down much as it was priced very well already and had several other interested buyers booked in two days later.
On the same day he bought it, he sent messages stating how unhappy he was as he ran the VIN and saw that this brand had a recall issued for the vehicle to be checked. I had it at the dealership with all recalls checked two weeks beforehand!
He stated I should have known and that he is disappointed and feels misled etc. and now he needs to bring it to a dealership to do a free check on the car.

I feel like I did all the right things, provided him with full service history (yes, even went as far as getting the dealership to send the detailed receipts) and he got a very good deal. (In comparison to what was being advertised on carsales at the time).
What is my responsibility in such a situation? I feel like I was offering a great deal, but the whole experience has left a sour taste in my mouth.
I feel personally attacked, and as if I purposely tried to mislead a buyer.

Automotive

Comments

  • bdl on 21/05/2020 - 20:01
    +202

    What is my responsibility in such a situation?

    To ignore him. :)

    You did everything to his satisfaction, otherwise he wouldn't have paid the money and purchased the vehicle. He wants you to react and feel hurt personally, not sure what he intends to gain from it, but you can sleep well at night knowing that you did what you could.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 22/05/2020 - 15:34
      +31

      Sounds like the buyer has one or more personality defects. Engaging with him at all will be counterproductive. Ignore, breathe and move on.

      • jelko on 22/05/2020 - 17:56
        +1

        Possibly a brain injury.

  • Hybroid on 21/05/2020 - 20:02
    +63

    Buyers remorse. They had every opportunity to assess and review the vehicle before purchase. You're in the clear.

    If you hand on heart believe you did not intentionally mislead them, then ignore, rest easy and move on.

    • funnysht on 22/05/2020 - 14:51
      +1

      Any response to

      Buyers remorse is

      Buyer Beware.

  • Sashy on 21/05/2020 - 20:05
    +44

    Thank you - I will try. I went above and beyond for this buyer and all they are doing is complaining. It's a 10 year old car they got for a few grand.

  • brendanm on 21/05/2020 - 20:07
    +75

    What did you use for the other 2%?

    Also block his number and carry on with your life.

      • brendanm on 21/05/2020 - 20:09
        +27

        I don't bold my crappy comments though. I feel this really mixes things up.

          • brendanm on 21/05/2020 - 20:14
            +23

            @Cheeper: I think in this case the answer was rather cut and dry before op posted the question, god forbid we have a little fun. You must be a hoot at parties.

            • try2bhelpful on 21/05/2020 - 23:48
              +8

              @brendanm: I love the funny comments. The worse the pun the better I like it.

              • onetwothreefour on 22/05/2020 - 08:42
                +4

                @try2bhelpful: I only read the comments that have lots of pluses or negs, they're the most entertaining.

          • Scrooge McDuck on 22/05/2020 - 15:39
            +5

            @Cheeper: Some threads become 10% people trying to be humourless. It stuffs up the forum.

          • dji1111111 on 25/05/2020 - 12:02
            +1

            @Cheeper: Agreed. People who think they are funny but they are the only ones laughing.

            • brendanm on 25/05/2020 - 17:02

              @dji1111111: Judging by the voting, you two are the only ones not laughing.

  • Cheeper on 21/05/2020 - 20:11
    +15

    He is an idiot that knows nothing about cars or most things by the sound of it.
    If he contacts you again just say the car is in perfect condition and to stop pestering you.
    When you sell a car privately you soon find out how many nutters are out there.

    • goraygo on 23/05/2020 - 18:32

      If your phone has the block caller function, use it. Block his number automatically. 😂

  • garetz on 21/05/2020 - 20:13
    +3

    Not your problem, it was his responsibility to find this stuff out before he made the purchase. He can be as disappointed as he likes.

    You have no responsibility to how the buyer feels after the fact.

  • randomusername2017 on 21/05/2020 - 20:17
    +7

    Member Since….
    26 min ago

    Topic suggestion for next hour.. Techfast review..

    • BargainCowboy on 24/05/2020 - 14:56

      I'm so proud of myself getting this reference.

  • JimmyF on 21/05/2020 - 20:20
    +6

    What is my responsibility in such a situation?

    2nd hand car sold by a private seller? Its buyer beware. Your responsibility now is nothing. Ignore them.

  • thatonethere on 21/05/2020 - 20:23
    +31

    When I sell a car I buy a throw away sim and phone. Once car is sold, phone is off recycled.

    • iforgotmysocks on 22/05/2020 - 08:24
      +26

      Why not just buy new SIM cards and use the same phone?

      • Speckled Jim on 22/05/2020 - 08:55
        +5

        Phone is phine?

      • kiitos on 22/05/2020 - 13:10
        +51

        So he can snap it in half as the buyer drives off, like in the movies.

        • DonWilson on 22/05/2020 - 14:37
          +3

          Amateurs. You rig the car to explode. Keep the phone, the SIM and you don't have to go through all that technical blocking mumbo jumbo.

          • fozzie on 22/05/2020 - 23:09
            +2

            @DonWilson: You can just block the number. Anyway op you have done nothing wrong.

            About 6 years ago I sold my then car, which was a good little runabout and had no problems. Anyway the buyer contacted me two months later as it developed a fault, which was minor anyway. I blocked the person and stopped answering their messages. Some people are unbelievable, they buy second hand privately buy at discounted price and then want the customer service as if they bought in a shop.

            • DonWilson on 22/05/2020 - 23:19
              +1

              @fozzie: Look, I'm not some whizz kid from the Google Valley, I don't know about none of that.

              If you're too lazy to rig the car then just get a rocket launcher. Geeze, kids today.

    • TilacVIP on 22/05/2020 - 09:01
      +10

      What's the point? Why not just block the buyer if you don't want them calling. Besides, if for some reason the buyer feels misled or ripped off (undisclosed issues with the car etc) they would know where you live anyway if he wanted to go down that path.

      Sounds to me like you have something to hide when you sell a car??

      • funnysht on 22/05/2020 - 14:58

        just get one of those phones with a dual sim card,

      • Beanvee on 22/05/2020 - 18:24

        I suppose a different number would be good if you piss off someone petty and they go signing up your phone number to a bunch of marketing spam.

        But a burner phone is excessive.

    • serpserpserp on 24/05/2020 - 12:02
      +3

      When I sell a second hand car I usually get a new iPhone on a $100 per month plan and then once the car is sold I smash the iPhone on the ground and eat the sim card.

    • montorola on 25/05/2020 - 12:34

      What's the point of all that if they know where you live? Lol

  • Donaldhump on 21/05/2020 - 20:26
    +3

    Tell them to see you in court, they are gronks, up to them to check this shit before they buy it

  • pegaxs on 21/05/2020 - 20:29
    +18

    he ran the VIN and saw that this brand had a recall issued for the vehicle

    It's a recall. They are free… Not your problem. Wont cost them anything. It could possibly have already been done. Most likely ran it through Takata Airbag check.

    What is my responsibility in such a situation?

    To block them and stop taking their calls and or emails. Deal was done. It's no longer your problem.

  • Mechz on 21/05/2020 - 21:08
    +30

    Tell him you'll take it back for a 20% restocking fee.

    • Chewiebacca on 22/05/2020 - 15:14
      +11

      Even though you are most certainly joking, I think it’s important to note that if ever considering taking a car back after it’s been sold, there are many things to keep in mind. Even in a short period of time, the car could have been used for theft/crimes, racked up tickets, parts taken, finance taken out, many possibilities.

      OP just block the number if they continue contacting, the sale is long settled, and they have no recourse unless they choose to take you to court, which is out of your hands anyway, so just forget about them and move on.

  • Melb69 on 21/05/2020 - 21:20
    +2

    Buyer regret. Ignore. Block his number. So his put out because he thinks something hasn't been done.Which he can get done by the dealer for free. Sure he may lose a day or a few hours to get it done. Not your problem. Did he get it mechanically looked at by a mechanic or someone else to see if all his other issues were covered before he handed over the money. That will be the next thing when he has issues in a months time. It's used. RW are useless.

  • Melb69 on 21/05/2020 - 21:21
    +1

    If he was do concerned with wanting after sales warranty, he should have bought from a dealer. He would of had 3mths warranty.

    • thatonethere on 21/05/2020 - 21:25

      Only 1 month for cars over 10 years from a dealer

      • Melb69 on 21/05/2020 - 21:51
        +1

        Ok, but you get my drift. Any issues after a private sale is essentially buyers issue.

  • Daabido on 21/05/2020 - 21:51
    +5

    I think we've probably all come across an unreasonable buyer at one point or another. I sold an iPad to someone. It was in perfect condition. He came back the next day saying it wasn't working. I gave him his money back just so he would f off and apparently that was an admission of my guilt. He went on and on about how I wouldn't have offered his money back if it wasn't broken and what a terrible person I was. I was glad to see the end of him. Turned out he was using it with some sort of overlay on the screen that he used in his business and it had interfered with the digitiser. Once that was off, it worked just fine for many more years. I couldn't be bothered to sell it again.

  • Sashy on 21/05/2020 - 22:02
    +10

    Thank you for the comments. Just felt I was doing the right thing, and it's like getting slapped in the face and being told you're a fraud.
    All the checks that are done by the dealership I just assume are part of standard maintenance. I didnt even think there were any issues. He came back saying I should gave disclosed all the recall checks - it wasn't even in my mind

    • wordplay on 21/05/2020 - 22:31
      +3

      sounds like you did more than most people selling cars. block this persons number and try not to worry about it. sounds like they actually got a good deal on the car.

    • johnno07 on 23/05/2020 - 17:25

      It was absolutely not on you to do this. Second hand sales are at the risk of the buyer. As long as you didn't outright commit fraud (which you certainly did not) then it's on the person who bought your car to do their due dilligence. Block them and never speak to them again. I would personally tell them to (profanity) off first.

  • godofpizza on 21/05/2020 - 22:07
    +1

    seems to be a trend with people buying second-hand goods and expecting some sort of warranty or after sales services from the seller.
    Sounds like the car was part of the airbag recall, unless they can't get parts for the car to do the recall.

  • John Kimble on 21/05/2020 - 22:07

    It's he calling to just to whine or is he asking for some sort of compensation? In any case, buyer beware, if he researched thoroughly beforehand, he would have known about the recall.

    • Revrnd on 23/05/2020 - 13:28

      ^ this. I'd expect the buyer to be the kind of person who'll pester you to pay for some expense related to the car now after its inspection.

      Buyer got a bargain, you've submitted your disposal notice, cancelled (or transferred) any insurance etc. case closed. move on.

  • Caped Baldy on 21/05/2020 - 22:11

    Respond with a crying face emoji

    It's buyer beware.

  • holdenmg on 21/05/2020 - 22:31
    -5

    Well… Bikies.

  • whooah1979 on 21/05/2020 - 22:40
    -7

    Did you omit telling the buyer about the recall?

  • Sashy on 21/05/2020 - 23:11
    +3

    The car was at the dealership two weeks ago and they ran all the recall checks then. I had no idea there was another recall since then. I called the dealership and they said that they roll these out in 'batches', whatever that means. Ofcourse if I knew I would have told the buyer, or better yet just had it checked before selling it on. As far as I was aware it has been given the green light two weeks ago

    • Brick Tamland on 22/05/2020 - 09:24
      +1

      This is the perfect response to the buyer, just tell them it was checked over by the dealer and they didn't say anything about the recall. Its not your responsibility to continually check for recalls.

    • gromit on 22/05/2020 - 16:59

      such people sadly exist everywhere, do not engage with him, ignore and move on. You have done nothing wrong at all and this is the sort of person you will NEVER be able to make happy and honestly it just aint your problem. If you wrapped the car up restored it to perfect new condition and handed it to him on a silver platter for cut price cost he would still find something to whine about.

    • Zephyrus on 25/05/2020 - 10:32

      They batch them together so they only have to deal with a limited numbers of cars at a time, rather than every owner coming in and having to wait for parts and labour. Takata airbags are ongoing because there just wasn't millions of airbags sitting in a warehouse waiting for the recall.

    • pegaxs on 21/05/2020 - 23:20
      -5

      I hate this shit. It’s the biggest lie people say about cars. It’s right up there with, “only driven to the shops by my mum on thursdays”

      And there is very little if any difference in the quality of these fuels. 98RON is not a measure of how good or clean the fuel is, it’s just a measure of its ability to resist pre-ignition…

      • Sashy on 21/05/2020 - 23:28
        +3

        I have heard from at least two coworkers who used to use the cheapest fuel, that their engines eventually had issues. Chatting to mechanics will also substantiate there is safety in using better quality fuel. The retailer also makes a difference - from all my research BP tends to rate above other outlets

        • pao2x on 21/05/2020 - 23:55
          +12

          That is all BS. But I believe you did not aim to mislead on this sale. All you have to do is ignore the buyer's BS

          • Sashy on 22/05/2020 - 00:02
            +1

            @pao2x: It appears to depend on each car model: https://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/cars/owning-and-mai…

            • Euphemistic on 22/05/2020 - 07:47
              +4

              @Sashy: That link is a waste of time. It has nothing scientific and is merely a journo ‘filling space’.

            • pegaxs on 22/05/2020 - 10:56
              +5

              @Sashy:

              I have heard from at least two coworkers who used to use the cheapest fuel

              So, they are scientists or petrochemical/automotive engineers? Or just talking shit around the water cooler?

              Chatting to mechanics will also substantiate there is safety in using better quality fuel

              I am a mechanic, and while your statement is true, it is wrongly attributed and has no relevance to the RON. RON is NOT a measure of a fuels quality. It is a measure of a fuels ability to resist pre-ignition. Higher RON =/= better quality. If you think it does, you have been suckered by the fuel marketing machine.

              Good quality fuel is important, but you cannot tell how good a fuel is by reading the RON number off the pump.

              Did you even read that article, or just google what you needed and posted the top link that was returned??

              • Some engines will perform better on high-octane fuels while others will show no obvious benefit.
              • Anecdotal reports (ie: opinion based, not science based) suggest that some cars produce better fuel consumption on premium fuels, although in most cases this alone is unlikely to offset the increased fuel costs.
              • [Deactivated] on 23/05/2020 - 10:27

                @pegaxs: My understanding is that certain cars are made to run on certain fuels and their engines and ECUs and everything internal run properly when you use the right RON for that car.

              • Revrnd on 23/05/2020 - 13:46
                -3

                @pegaxs: So let me get this right..

                You're a mechanic who says that a higher octane fuel's ability to resist knocking in a vehicle has no relevance to its quality as a fuel..

                Lets just re-introduce leaded fuels and we can all use lower quality fuels that resist knocking.

                • pegaxs on 23/05/2020 - 14:50
                  +2

                  @Revrnd: RON is not a measure of “quality”. If you think it is, I suggest you read up on what RON stands for and what it measures.

                  And the rest of your post is troll drivel.

                  • Revrnd on 23/05/2020 - 19:08
                    -2

                    @pegaxs: next you'll be telling me bearing load tests with oils like Royal Purple are just numbers and aren't reflective of real world performance. but what do I know, I'm not a mechanic, just a car enthusiast.

                    • pegaxs on 23/05/2020 - 20:08
                      +4

                      @Revrnd: You keep moving those goal posts and building those straw men… troll on, you crazy diamond…

          • resisting the urge on 22/05/2020 - 14:03
            +7

            @pao2x: It is mostly, but like all things depends.

            I've worked on lots of fuel systems, cleaned hundreds of injectors. Rebuilt lots of engines, complex and simple. My advice after seeing water damage in fuel systems and hunted the causes many times, is simple:

            1. Beware of your fuel sources. Some stations have old tanks, or don't maintain them very well. Others don't sell down and refill their tanks as often as others. The enemy of your car and its fuel is actually water: Specifically condensation and humidity in the air in the tank above it, at the fuel station, in your car's tank, etc. Some merchants don't drain/siphon the water very often, or don't sell much fuel so the average age of the fuel they sell is weeks, rather than a few days old. Every day it sits in the tank is another 24hr condensation cycle, so when come along to buy it, it comes with a little extra water content.
              https://www.festanks.com.au/blog/storage-ethanol-fuel-pros-a…
              Some service stations even substitute/mix fuels to reduce purchase cost. Years ago there was a racket exposed where some franchisees had been using tank loads of toluene, not too far different from kerosene. I don't know if they mixed this with all their fuels, but the financial incentive to mix a cheaper substitute with 98 is greater than with 91, so people buying 98 from them may have been getting the opposite of what they had expected. No doubt it still occurs.

            2. If you don't use your car very much, topping off the tank with a higher rated fuel (e.g. if it takes 91, use 95, if 95, use 98) than your car needs will help it stay reliable for longer. When fuel is left to stand it loses its volatility, so doing this will result in your car consuming fuel in a range closer to its designed rating.

            3. Always keep a full tank, as the smaller the pocket of air above the fuel is, the less water will condense out of it at night, and end up in the fuel. This will help the fuel system last (water forms acids in fuel), and helps the engine maintain cleaner combustion.

            4. Avoid fuel with ethanol in it. All engines become less powerful with it, as it contains less energy. Most actually run less efficiently with this fuel, and its price does not adequately reflect the increased consumption it will cause. However the total cost of using it over the long term is significant, but many think otherwise as the problems onset gradually (see #5), and don't become obvious until its too late.

            5. Ethanol rich fuel is much more hygroscopic than petroleum, meaning it absorbs more water. Given a number of common circumstances, this leads to trouble in any fuel system. Despite what any government or vendor tells you, it simply cannot be assumed safe for use. Here's why:

            6. But ethanol fuel is acidic so can clean out my system: There seems to be an old wives' tail that mechanics mention occasionally, that it's good to use ethanol fuel at the beginning of a large trip because it can help to clean out the system. I've never seen any science on this. It is probably because they've seen the damage that acid and the water has caused to fuel systems in cars that have sat for a while, so think the fuel itself is acidic.

            7. This is wrong- my car is 'ethanol compatible'! If your car has a plastic tank and stainless steel lines, etc. you might have read something about it being 'ethanol' compatible. However as E91 or E94 attracts more water over time, and the water forms acids as it sits and/or changes temperature throughout the day, this will impact you at some point. For example, if leaving it sit for a long period of time it will damage seals, lines, pumps, injectors and other parts of the fuel system much faster, and end up requiring expensive repair long before the end of the service life is reached for other parts.

            8. When can I use ethanol fuel? Really only one thing is certain, you never want to leave ethanol rich fuel in the car for a long period. About the only time I'd be happy buying it would be prior to driving the kind of distance that will need several tanks. in which case the first fill ups can be an ethanol fuel mix, but the last will be what sits in the car for a while once I get there. So that last fill should be a normal fuel without any ethanol.

            • Cave Fire on 22/05/2020 - 22:03

              @resisting the urge: This is why I read you should always keep a receipt. Occasionally, there will be bad fuel going around at a servo and the receipt helps prove that you filled up there.

            • Euphemistic on 23/05/2020 - 07:02

              @resisting the urge: You day ‘if you don’t use your car much’ but what does that mean in the real world. Less than weekly, less than monthly every second day?

              • resisting the urge on 23/05/2020 - 12:40

                @Euphemistic: I'd describe it as mostly short trips, each one defined by a trip under half an hour between which the engine cools.

                But, if you do one trip for longer, say once each week or every 10th time you use the car, and I'm thinking here it is an hour on >80kmh road, then the fuel and oil won't be so compromised for two reasons: The oil gets to temperature and has some time to burn off the water it collects, and in the fuel tank, water and acid has time to mix up into the fuel. The point here is to prevent water accumulating at too high a rate in the fuel, as well as the engine and driveline oil sumps- and doing this one bigger trip helps to make up for a week of small trips.

                That said, if you leave it unused for days on end, and fill up at >2 week intervals, the fuel has ample opportunity to absorb water from diurnal temp change. Keeping it topped off reduces the amount it absorbs, but cars are only designed to last doing bigger trips. If you seldom do long trips, the oils will need changing more often- twice to three times the normal service interval, and you should top the fuel off each week. If you don't use a tank's worth of fuel more often than say, once a month, add a smidge (30ml) of fuel stabiliser to the fuel, before topping it off. It's easy to keep a little bottle and a 50ml syringe to do it with, in the trunk.

                I hope that helps.

                • Euphemistic on 24/05/2020 - 08:19

                  @resisting the urge: I think you just described how 90% of drivers use their cars.

                  • resisting the urge on 26/05/2020 - 00:43

                    @Euphemistic: Which is why fuel has modifiers in it to retain water in solution, so by using up the tank you remove a large amount of the water that is there.

                    And why a normal car will have problems with its fuel system after 10 years or less of normal use. Try to keep it topped off, avoid ethanol fuels and your car'll run better, and you'll save money on repairs and hassle

                    But no matter what be sure that if you leave it with an empty tank for a long time, water will build up to levels that begin to cause problems.

                    • Euphemistic on 26/05/2020 - 07:06

                      @resisting the urge: You’ve gone from infrequent use to normal use causing problems. Not a great way to back up your argument.

                      I do get the point though, a full tank is better than an empty one.

            • kouk on 24/05/2020 - 00:34
              -2

              @resisting the urge: So much misinformation in this post I'm not sure where to start.
              Beware of people who begin their rant posts with qualifying statements like this guys.

              • wyrmy on 24/05/2020 - 08:08

                @kouk: "This common household post could kill your car. Tune in next week to find out more."

              • resisting the urge on 26/05/2020 - 00:39

                @kouk: You mistake what I say, and I covered more than just fuel, trying to be clear. Sorry if it was a bit long.

                TL/DR is that acid and water build-up only becomes a problem when left for a long time or it is more often left empty than full. If you keep your car topped up, it will prevent problems happening. And when leaving for a long time, make the effort to run it down first, and fill with non-ethanol fuel before leaving.

                Keeping it topped off instead of running it down all the time actually reduces load and heat on the fuel pump too, having a direct effect on its longevity. Any mechanic will tell you that.

                • Euphemistic on 26/05/2020 - 07:07

                  @resisting the urge: But running a full tank costs me fuel in extra weight to drag around.

                  • resisting the urge on 26/05/2020 - 13:21

                    @Euphemistic: True that, if using the car regularly, and re-filling each time it gets down to half-full, the difference in average consumption would be about 0.05%.

                    You can make up for that by changing from carrying a space-saving spare wheel instead of a normal tyre.

                    And as many have said before, you can even save the same amount again by leaving the spare tyre at home, and having an emergency plan for getting a flat.

                    BTW, 0.05% is based on one tank every 2 weeks, which on average, creates problems within the normal lifetime of the car. This will be many years earlier if you use E10. But this is all assuming your particular model was built with good engineering and the right parts in the fuel system. Over the last few decades, manufacturers have been cheapening material things as well as improving others, and cars with half the normal design life have become the norm. A lot of this is because shorter designed-life allows them to replace stainless steel or alloys with plastics that disintegrate. And, by no co-incidence, after decades of making engines, many still manage to use the wrong sealing materials in many applications, and markets, so very difficult to get at leaks occur, as well as simple things like air ingress around fuel injectors happens earlier. And others simpler repairs often require specialised procedures and the replacement of expensive plastic parts, or worse, OE ones at heavily jacked prices)

                    All this impacts owners MUCH more than it used to, but is easily avoided by not using cheap fuels from dodgey servos, ethonol-laced fuels that actually contain less energy, and attack your car 24x7 from the inside. Then, and only then, for optimum longevity, I suggest top it off rather than run it dry.

                    BUT- if you have an old car that is likely already down the path a ways, maybe practice topping it off all the time rather than tempt fate!

                    If OTOH you have a new Hybrid that proudly states 'E10 safe' on the filler cap, don't… sure you may sell it in 3 years and never be affected, but it won't buying E10 doesn't save you anything at a 2-4c discount, and can still affect you like a fellow I met yesterday- he left his 500km old Hybrid for 6 months, which a) won't now start, b) has water in the tank which has made the hybrid engine run poorly and throw codes, intermittently shut down and has flattened expensive batteries again. Towed to Toyota, they want $3000 to run a bottle of fuel system cleaner through it, all because it refuses to run without the ECU telling it to shut down….

                    • Euphemistic on 26/05/2020 - 13:44

                      @resisting the urge: On the other hand, the Aussie car fleet has an average age of over 10 years and I’d wager the vast majority run to near empty and fill fortnightly or less. By that, what you are saying is a catastrophe is more likely to be rare or at least uncommon. Combine that with once a vehicle gets to 10yo or over a couple hundred thousand it isn’t worth much and the tech has moved on a lot most people would think that the average lifespan is pretty suitable.

                      Do agree though, they don’t make em like they used to - but maybe that’s not such a bad thing to get the old polluters off the roads.

                      • resisting the urge on 26/05/2020 - 14:14

                        @Euphemistic: Sort of. The problems are increasing in cost and frequency, and are proportional to the uptake of E10 use IMHO.

                        Things are changing because Oz used to be a country of low fuel-system problems. Our fuels were of a consistently high quality. Not so much now, thanks to E10 supplementation not renewing our refineries in favour of importing refined stock.

                        The thing that makes an old car worth something, is if it is reliable. That is proportional to the way it runs. EFI engines cannot run for long if they combust poorly. They actually become impossible to operate, unlike the engines of old. Even modern cars can be reliable- I'd argue that with all our learning, modern technology and new materials, we could make them last longer. Instead, in order to destroy the environment faster, we make them last less long.

                        What makes a car pollute (apart from the pollution producing it in the first place, which is worse) is how its maintained, not so much how its built.

                        If they were built to be maintained, let alone designed to last, the old polluters would not be old polluters.

                        That isn't to say that a basement POS made to a price by a POS manufacturer would be any better, but most would. That said, a bad engine can easily last 500k over 12 years if well maintained, a good one can go far longer. Make the parts fail early, and make them expensive, and 2nd hand prices simply collapse as the new market expands. And the overall carbon impact with it.

                        • Euphemistic on 26/05/2020 - 14:18

                          @resisting the urge:

                          What makes a car pollute

                          My comment was mostly directed at newer cars having better efficiency, some of that is offset by the additional weight of all the extra equipment installed and our penchant for larger vehicles but there is no denying that newer cars on the whole use less fuel than their equivalent from yesteryear.

                          • resisting the urge on 26/05/2020 - 14:27

                            @Euphemistic: Yes, but its not engines that really improve, (performance increases yes, but efficiency is improving only incrementally, and requires things like more refined fuels (increased refining causes pollution)), and all the while longevity is reducing as production impact increases.

                            Its mostly more expensive transmissions (more gears, CVTs) that net us the improvements, even a new, small hybrid uses 4l/100. An economy combustion engine in the same car only uses moderately more fuel, but the base production costs (and impacts) are several orders of magnitude worse in comparison, so operational economy pales in significance.

      • Brick Tamland on 22/05/2020 - 09:27
        +1

        Agree. I have tried 98 RON in each car or motorcycle that I have upgraded to and every vehicle has ran worse on 98 RON. Unless the car specifically requires 98 RON then its a total waste of money. Even the high performance high compression engine in the bike hated it.

        • Euphemistic on 22/05/2020 - 10:26
          +3

          Unfortunately, many driver ‘feel’ improved performance. Confirmation bias.

        • DashCam AKA Rolts on 22/05/2020 - 16:28
          +2

          vehicle has ran worse

          vehicle has run worse or vehicle ran worse

          • Brick Tamland on 22/05/2020 - 18:56

            @DashCam AKA Rolts: Thanks, typed that out too fast.

            The vehicle ran worse. Mostly harder to start and hesitation on pickup.

            • Revrnd on 23/05/2020 - 13:48

              @Brick Tamland: how long did you use that fuel for though.. long enough for any ECU to learn? or just 1 tank and switched back?

              • Brick Tamland on 24/05/2020 - 09:32

                @Revrnd: Just the 1 tank. So you're saying I should have stuck with it for a few tanks for the ECU to adjust…

                Probably too late now, I am just sticking with the recommendation from now on. Except for the bike I will keep putting 95 in that despite its claims to be able take 91 and E10. It seems to run quite well on 95. On 98 it had trouble firing up form cold start.

      • kiitos on 22/05/2020 - 13:17
        -1

        Does this apply to the recommendations from the car manufacturer, egg to use min 95 Ron? Can you use 91 instead without problem?

        • pegaxs on 22/05/2020 - 13:50
          +4

          Do NOT do this. If your vehicle recommends 95, then only put 95 or better in the tank. If it recommends 98, only put 98. You can always go up without a problem, but never go down…

          Caveat: You can go down IF that is the only fuel available that you can buy at the time. Only run it for as long as it takes you to get to a source of the correct rated fuel for your vehicle. IF you have to use a lower RON fuel, never use it in a vehicle that is towing a heavy load or do any hard acceleration under load for any extended period of time.

          If you have to fill on 91 and your vehicle requires 95, don't fill up all the way with 91, only put enough to get to where you know they will be selling 95 or higher. If you still have half a tank of 91 left when you fill up, use 98, as this will mix with the 91 and make the subsequent mix about the right ratio and RON.

          • witsa on 22/05/2020 - 18:02

            @pegaxs: Why?

            Not saying you're wrong but what if the consequence?

            • tomleonhart on 22/05/2020 - 18:26
              +1

              @witsa: Your engine might blow up. That’s the consequences of using lower than recommended RON.

            • pegaxs on 22/05/2020 - 19:11
              +1

              @witsa: @tom is pretty much on the money. Running the wrong RON (lower than recommended) fuel in your vehicle can have severe consequences if it is used for long enough. Apart from the downsides of poor performance and poor economy, the other issue is that the constant detonation/pinging/pre-ignition can have is that it can damage the combustion chamber.

              If left go on for long enough, the constant pinging/knocking can eat hole in to the tops of pistons, into the head and into head gaskets and damage valves and spark plugs. In severe cases, it can actually destroy the crowns and ring lands of pistons and cause a catastrophic failure of engine components.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 23/05/2020 - 14:49

        what the hell are you talking about saintpotter and pegaxs ? - I only put 98 unleaded Caltex Vortex or BP Ultimate in my V8 for at least the last 7 years and since its over 10 years old I would automatically be a liar despite the fact I'm not!? My situation totally backs up OP and you sir/s (or madam/s), are proven wrong.

        Maybe you got a bucket of crap car, but I think you both need to realise there's a lot of people out there who care about their cars and OP was simply using this as a point of how fastidious he was.

        As for mine, way back when I first bought it as second owner it had terrible idle issues and other problems and check engine lights etc despite only 40,000Kms. Turns out the previous owner was running standard 91 with ethanol blend despite the car not being suited for it, as confirmed with the manufacturer. Had to have carbon cleaned out etc, put high octane in ever since and never ethanol as per manufacturer recommendations without drama now for years.

        As for the quality of the fuel, there is an element of truth in that a crappy supply chain with dirty fuel can exist just as much with 98 octane as 91 octane. However 98 octane fuel can be more appropriate for sports car engines for a weekend drive car like mine, which is made to run off at least 95 octane. It is therefore better for that type of application and willingness to pay extra for it shows you care about your car - the point OP was trying to make. There is no way that makes the OP a liar and its totally reasonable 98 is all OP put in.

    • kerfuffle on 22/05/2020 - 07:16
      +6

      My car’s almost ten and I always filled up 98 from the day I got it brand new. Refuse to use anything lower on it as it’s never used anything but 98 octane

      • Euphemistic on 22/05/2020 - 07:47
        +8

        Thank you for supporting the marketing companies. You have been suckered.

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