Recently Got Stood down as a retail worker

jackthefrost on 12/04/2020 - 07:53

I work in retail and I just got stood down this week. My employer is very vague with this whole Jobkeeper eligbiility thing even though i know full well they are eligible for it.

I want to apply for the job seeker payment but the company wants me to use my AL and LSL, to reduce their liability I suppose but I want to keep some in case of emergency or unexpected occasion down the line. So I have some questions which I hope someone can have me in this regard.

If I take AL, then I can't get jobseeker payment even if I'm stood down? Is it possible to request LSL be used first? How about utilising half pay AL and its implication?

And lastly is it always good to keep some AL untouched for the future? And I within my full right to ask for that?

Thanks in advance.

Financial

Comments

  • loulou1 on 12/04/2020 - 08:05
    -6

    This is the emergency. Use your annual leave and long service leave.

  • kasumi on 12/04/2020 - 08:06

    Similar discussion a few days ago https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/530265

  • scanuck on 12/04/2020 - 08:28

    Your employer has to apply to jobkeeper - this is the first domino to fall before you worry about anything else

    In the absence of that - and you wanting to maintain an income, it’s up to you how you want to apply your leave.

    Option C may be Jobseeker

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 12/04/2020 - 15:03
      +2

      Note - Employer is not required to apply. It's optional. A lot of companies will be standing down staff with no intention of ever calling them back. They are just delaying payout of redundancies.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2020 - 15:43
        +2

        Why were you negged? This is right, it's not compulsory. Friend's company managers have gone MIA and won't answer calls. Nothing about jobkeeper or anything. They're clearly trying to avoid it. I say apply for Jobseeker ASAP then try to get Jobkeeper. If you manage to get it, just withdraw your jobseeker application

        • crashloaded on 13/04/2020 - 10:16

          I used to be a small business owner with only casual staff. I know for a fact in my situation, jobkeeper wouldn't help my business survive so why would I apply for it.

          Unless I gave in to the bribery of the mandatory commercial tenancy code.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2020 - 11:40

            @crashloaded: Why would you apply for it? Idunno maybe if you had any care for your employees whatsoever and any shred of decency then even if it doesn't benefit you, you would still apply for it since without them, what would your business be? Or do you just see them as disposable? Also, you could then ask them to come back and do SOME work which you'll be getting basiclly for free.

            Of course if you don't have the money, then it's understandable. Or you could simply strike some deal with your employees where you pay out what you can and will back pay them once the government back pays you.

            In my mates case, it's a big factory with 2 locations. They stock their items in all major supermarkets.

            • crashloaded on 13/04/2020 - 13:14

              @[Deactivated]: I understand your point, but my small business only had 4 casual employees. Even with those wages paid, this downturn in trade would have destroyed the business. There is a lot of small businesses that will be the same. Not to mention with leases that are guaranteed personally. Jobkeeper relies on the business staying in business and wages is only one facet of that.

              • [Deactivated] on 13/04/2020 - 13:29

                @crashloaded: Sorry so you're saying you don't have the liquidity to pay them or you're worried if you pay them, your business won't last long enough to get paid back from the government?

                I mean as I said, not having the money is one thing, not doing it out of pure laziness or simply because it won't benefit you is a horrible way to treat your employees. My friend has been there for 10 YEARS and now they're not even picking up her calls. It is a massive company and I know they have the cash. But I do understand what you're saying and yes, if I knew it wasn't viable for the business to pay me then I'd understand, that's why I told OP to apply for JobSeeker anyways.

                You must be glad you got out in time then haha.

                • crashloaded on 13/04/2020 - 13:44

                  @[Deactivated]: Yeah, if you think your business can recover/survive then the employer should definitely be applying for jobkeeper.

  • MITM on 12/04/2020 - 08:46

    Are you the only employee ?
    If you want to apply for jobseeker, you could ask for a severance payout from your employer and have all you AL etc paid up front.
    If they don't want to do that (don't have the cash to), then they need to get setup for Jobkeeper to keep you on the books and so they can continue to pay you.

    • dizzle on 12/04/2020 - 15:57

      I can't think of any employer who would be willing to agree to that request. They have a couple of options:
      Wait until they reopen, employee has used all Annual Leave and maybe some unpaid leave (not sure of legality of the second part) and then restart employment when they can.
      Employee uses all of their Annual Leave and needs to find a way to pay bills. Resigns and gets Jobseeker/a different job (Employer doesn't have to pay severance and hires new people when they reopen)
      Apply for Jobkeeper. If the employees are stood down and not working they would only have to pay the $1500 that they get. So if the employee normally earns more than that, that's all they get, but they can work other jobs while they are stood down.

      Either way the only way they have to pay a severance/redundancy is if they fire the employee, or if they shut down permanently and I don't see anyone doing this voluntarily (Not sure if bankruptcy would get them out of this too)

      Don't get me wrong though I'm suggesting all of this is ethical.

  • Hardlyworkin on 12/04/2020 - 09:07
    +2

    Your employer can make you run down your annual leave until you only have 2 weeks left and still access jobkeeper. Unsure if the same applies to LSL.

    During normal times they usually can require an employee to use excessive annual leave (more than 4 weeks) though stricter notice periods and consultation apply.

    You can always ask you employer to use annual leave first or leave at half pay. If they can afford to pay your leave now however then it's in the company's best interest to do that.

  • JIMB0 on 12/04/2020 - 09:31
    +4

    I'd cash in all the leave incase the company goes broke.

    • crashloaded on 12/04/2020 - 13:07
      +2

      Agree, get all entitlements paid out in a lump sum and get on jobseeker. No guarantee the employer will apply for jobkeeper. Afaik it's not mandatory for employers to apply for it.

    • Meho2026 on 12/04/2020 - 14:21
      +2

      The leave is guaranteed by the government if the company goes under https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ending-employment/bankruptcy-and…

      The company the OP works for cant actually be that strapped for cash if it can afford to pay everyone their leave entitlements now. They probably want employees to use their leave so its not an accounting liability on their balance sheet and because it suits them further down the track.

      Its possible the company is being deliberately evasive about jobkeeper to incentivise employees to use all their leave up.

      It depends on everyones individual circumstance, some people might need to use the leave, some can afford to keep it and access it when this is all over.

      Watch out for a potential trap though. If an employee agrees to take say 4 weeks leave and then the company applies for jobkeeper, the employer is only paying the difference between the $1500/fortnight allowance and a full weeks pay.
      It means employees are effectively using up leave at a discounted rate to the company.

      Most companies will do the right thing but some will exploit this and encourage staff to take their leave because it will cost them $1500/fortnight less than it will when things go back to normal.

  • askme69 on 12/04/2020 - 10:00
    -4

    My local takeaway has started doing EFTPOS only transactions as previously was a CASHONLY business for the past 40 years.

    Wonder how they will go with the ATO?
    How could they show turnover down to get any assistance?
    How could the employees who were CASHIES get any assistance ie: Jobkeeper etc.

    How could the business go back to being CASH only?

    • chumlee on 12/04/2020 - 10:39

      Exactly. Government may use this virus to start banning all cash transactions

    • randomusername2017 on 12/04/2020 - 11:07

      My local takeaway has started doing EFTPOS only

      Contactless transactions are all the rage these days.. go figure

      A percentage of those cash only sales would have been reported to ATO previously, report a lower percentage to qualify for assistance.

      Quarterly BAS - might suddenly see those CASHIES on the payroll at tax free threshold rate since January

  • screensaver on 12/04/2020 - 10:28

    I am not certain but its in your interests to get Job seeker as they have an additional payment you cant get at any other time. Yo do not have to produce an employment seperation certificate or have a waiting period.

  • eriktufa on 12/04/2020 - 15:08

    I believe if you actually use your AL or LSL you are theoretically still employed and ineligible for jobseeker payment. You are only eligible for Jobkeeper payment at this stage if your company apply and get the payment.

    • jackthefrost on 12/04/2020 - 16:41

      Is the jobseeker backdated to the date I lodge an intention to claim?

    • Meho2026 on 12/04/2020 - 18:54

      I don’t think that’s right
      Job keeper is for the business
      They have to show they passed it on to the elgible employee but I think the business gets the allowance even for staff they keep on full time

  • AustriaBargain on 12/04/2020 - 15:47

    Has your employer actually lost more htan 30% revenue from 12 months ago? If they are still selling online then you can't really know what their revenue actually is, and if they weren't selling online 12 months ago then maybe their revenue is actually higher now, even if the in store revenue is stagnant and they don't need brick and mortar staff right now.

  • jackthefrost on 12/04/2020 - 16:50

    I should add I'm with the company for 6 years (this is in NSW btw), under normal circumstances I can't withdraw LSL until I have worked for 10 years or get fired. So this is a special circumstances I guess?

    • Hardlyworkin on 12/04/2020 - 17:40

      NSW state government changes the legislation and made an exception to use LSL prior to 7 years though this was before jobkeeper was announced. Jobkeeper should be used instead.

      • jackthefrost on 14/04/2020 - 08:32

        do you have a link for this? it's the first time I heard of it

      • MITM on 14/04/2020 - 21:47

        So at years 1-6 you can get an advance on 10 years LSL ? Wow, I need to join that progressive union. Wonder if I can get an advance on my super before I’m 70 ? What ? I can access 20k tax free ?

  • SlavOz on 13/04/2020 - 02:32

    And lastly is it always good to keep some AL untouched for the future?

    You mean like a global pandemic? Seriously, use your AL. If the company goes broke you'll probably get nothing and there's not gonna be a better time to take AL anytime soon…unless Godzilla strikes the earth and causes another global shitstorm.

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