I'm an Eligible Employee Who Is Qualified for The $1500 Fortnight Claim. Manager Does Not Think I Can Get The Claim

L[Deactivated] on 02/04/2020 - 11:04
Last edited 02/04/2020 - 15:06 by 1 other user

I am a full time barista (for 3 years now) at a well established cafe inside the hospital. Recently I told my manager that I don't feel safe coming in to work as we deal with patients on a daily basis without any proper gear. I told him I won't be working until further notice. He is fine with this.

He then called for a meeting and said that our Cafe is eligible for getting the $1500 claim per employee. However, he said that I can't claim mine as I chose not to work and only employees who are rostered can get it. If I chose to get back to work, then I'll get the claim.

I've read the statement and it clearly stated 'all employed workers' and didn't mention whether the employee is rostered or not. I mentioned this to him but he kept saying that 'he was told' or 'our cafe's head office' said so.

I chose not to work as the hospital is a risky environment to work in. We are basically front liners and face contagious patients everyday. I believe that employees who are in the same situation should get the claim as we are still employed and our Cafe is still getting enough profit as we are a very busy cafe who serves medical staff.

I tried ringing up Centrelink but they will call me back. I don't know who else to call or ask about this. I don't know if my manager is telling the truth to us.

EDIT:
1. I am a full time permanent employee and also a full time student.
2. I live with my 60 year old parents
3. According to my boss, I am still employed and can get back to work when I am ready and 100% well (as I've been coughing)
4. I was still employed on March 1st, 2020.
5. Our cafe is ranked the 3rd busiest among its other franchises, in Australia. While we are eligible for the subsidy, I think we are still getting enough profit (which I still need to find out).
6. We interact with patients and medical staff without any proper equipment.
7. Moving on, I am just waiting for Centrelink to return my call and see where to go from here.

Lastly, I know this may seem like a selfish post. But please before you judge and tell me to suck it up, for all you guys working from home, I hope you'll at least consider what's it like being in a frontliner's position. I know I am not a medical staff, but we still interact with patients who might be a possible COVID carrier. In the hospital I'm in now, there have been 30 cases and counting. The virus can spread very quickly. I have asthma and a weak immune system.

For those who were helpful, thank you!

Financial

closed Comments

          • spackbace on 02/04/2020 - 12:33

            @mooney: Also being full-time, the company have to cover superannuation on top. So basically OP would be costing them money, while not actually doing work.

            Doesn't sound like the best thing to do by an employer of 3yrs. You'd think there'd be a relationship there to be able to work together

            • ssquid on 02/04/2020 - 12:44
              +2

              @spackbace: The company doesn't have to pay superannuation on any amount over what the employee would normally be paid. But they do have to cover all the $1500 payments themselves until the ATO pays them back, which it won't begin doing until the first week of May. It's a bit of a dick move by the government forcing them to reach into their own pockets at a time like this.

            • Milk tea on 02/04/2020 - 23:15

              @spackbace: Actually while you get the jobkeeper payment it is up to the employer to pay super or not but you do accrual annual leave during the period

              • PissLUR on 03/04/2020 - 01:03

                @Milk tea: Super is paid. The only case it may not be paid is if the employee usually earns $500. And now getting $1,500. The employer doesn't have to pay super for the extra $1,000.

  • p1 ama on 02/04/2020 - 12:22
    +6

    No OP, there is a difference between people who are forced out of work due to government regulations and people who simply do not want to work.

    For example, if your cafe closes down because of a government lockdown, then yes, obviously you will be eligible for payment. However, the cafe is not shut down, it seems to be operating normally and you have made the personal decision to not go to work. Another example is if you, for whatever reason, need to go into quarantine and, as a result, cannot go to work.

    The standard is people who "cannot" work, not people who "do not want to" work. They are different things. Unless the government closes down cafes entirely, I don't think you'll have any case here.

    I chose not to work as the hospital is a risky environment to work in.

    But it looks like everyone else is still working? As evidenced by:

    Cafe is still getting enough profit as we are a very busy cafe who serves medical staff.

  • PissLUR on 02/04/2020 - 12:27

    My boss reduces the charge rate to 30% and then try to claim these payments for us.

    Smart?

  • Hithere on 02/04/2020 - 12:30
    +5

    I chose not to work

    If you choose to voluntarily terminate your normal employment, you don't qualify.

    I suggest you try to get your job back quickly, if you can.

    If an employee was employed on 1 March 2020 and subsequently ceased employment with their employer and then has been re-engaged by the same eligible employer the employee will receive at a minimum $1,500 per fortnight before tax.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/04/2020 - 12:33
    -2

    You need to call FairWork immediately.

    You chose not to work. You to need to rectify that ASAP - either go back to work or provide legitimate reasoning why you are prohibited from working.

    • Hardlyworkin on 02/04/2020 - 12:43
      +1

      Good luck getting any clear information right now. Jobkeeper info is mainly restricted to the fact sheets on the Dept of treasury website. Calling any government departments will be a waste of time as they are getting their info on the nightly news.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/04/2020 - 13:01

        Read my post again. Nothing about JobSeeker or Keeper.

        OP needs to establish if they are legally still employed and what they can do about it. This is exactly what FairWork can assist with.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2020 - 13:39

          Yes am still employed

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/04/2020 - 15:50
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Cool. Tell them to pay you :)

            If they don't, or you don't want to return to work, go to FairWork and they'll take you through the steps.

    • rompastompa on 02/04/2020 - 12:52
      +2

      go back to work

      Might be too late. "Sorry, 1000 barista's applied for your job after you 'won't be working until further notice' (aka, quit). Your position has been filled. Good luck on your future endeavours."

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/04/2020 - 13:02
        +1

        Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe OP should pick up the phone, investigate and find out?

        • Hardlyworkin on 02/04/2020 - 15:11

          So FWO now give legal advice? That's a first. OP needs to speak with his employer, they are in the best position to answer the question of whether is is still an employee.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/04/2020 - 15:47

            @Hardlyworkin:

            So FWO now give legal advice?

            FWO? Huh? FWC do. I don't think you know the roles each serve.

            "The Workplace Advice Service is a free legal assistance program facilitated by the Fair Work Commission. The Service currently offers advice about unfair dismissal, general protections and workplace bullying." https://www.fwc.gov.au/resources/where-get-legal-advice/work…

            Anything else to add?

            • Hardlyworkin on 02/04/2020 - 16:38

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware FWC offered a referral service to a legal aid type provider for unfair dismissal. Oh and you should lodge online rather than call up.Different from a Fair Work person giving the advice on a phone call. I still don't see however that the OP was terminated by his employer.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2020 - 12:51
    +5

    lol, pulled the pin in fear, i wouldn't want you back, bad luck.

  • AlanJ on 02/04/2020 - 12:52

    I don't pretend to understand this $1500 per fortnight payment rules, but perhaps someone can comment on this: is the allowance tied to specific PEOPLE (i.e. by name) or by specific POSITIONS? If the OP chooses not to work, obviously those hours have to be made up somewhere. If the employer hires a replacement, it seems that the OP is entitled to the pay for that position, because he was registered to work there on March 1. However, if that means he gets it, the employer can't get it for the present holder of the position, so he's clearly losing by having to pay an employee to sit at home as well as the one who fronts up. Or am I talking nonsense? Another point: if the OP is not replaced, then the roster has to be changed so that everyone shares the extra workload he has suddenly thrown at them. So his POSITION may get the allowance, but wouldn't the employer feel obliged to use it to cover the extra wages everyone else is suddenly entitled to, due to those increased hours? It is, after all, given to the employer to keep the business with the same employee strength, isn't it? Or, once again, am I talking nonsense?

    • Switchblade88 on 02/04/2020 - 13:16

      Linked to the employee, not position.

      And it isn't linked to the rostered hours - employees don't HAVE to 'earn' the full $1500, it's a retainer. That's up to the employer to decide.

  • AdosHouse on 02/04/2020 - 13:08

    OP wants to know if they can get the JobKeeper payment because they refuse to work, meanwhile I work for ALH in the pubs, get closed by the Government and still don't get the payment.

    • Baysew on 02/04/2020 - 13:10

      Why aren't you getting the payment?

      • AdosHouse on 02/04/2020 - 13:14
        +1

        Been advised by the CEO that ALH isn't eligible. They didn't say why, but I believe it is because the Bottleshops are doing great revenue, and the pubs only made up about 20% of revenue, therefor revenue hasn't dropped the required 50%.

        Completely sucks arse. Meanwhile best I can do is get Centrelink, and I registered my "intent to claim" on MyGov a week ago, and they haven't called to give me a CRN yet. And when I walked into a Centrelink, they said I had to wait for the call, and they couldn't give me the CRN when I was literally talking to them face-to-face. Ridiculous.

        • Baysew on 02/04/2020 - 13:20

          The devil is in the detail. This is causing real fractures between groups of people.

        • sagrules on 02/04/2020 - 18:07

          I thought you had to have a CRN for the intent to claim process

          • AdosHouse on 02/04/2020 - 18:09

            @sagrules: No, they have placed an "Intent to claim" banner on the MyGov home page. It's to stop people flooding Centrelink offices.

            It took them 4 days just to send an automated email saying to please wait for the call. So I'm expecting the call some time by 2030.

  • Switchblade88 on 02/04/2020 - 13:14
    +2

    Here's the only reliable Government source I've found sor far.

    As both bookkeeper and employee, I've got to sort this out for all our staff in our cafe - mostly casuals earning $200-500 per week.

    From reading through, both our competent long-term staff as well as our juniors can be paid the full $1500 - IF we, as the employer, decide to do so. That would be perfectly fine EXCEPT that we now would have to find about $60k for the month in wages for the 20 staff that are eligible, until we are reimbursed.

    In the current economy we've lost about 50% to 70% of our daily sales, so we're now struggling to even pay our skeleton staff the amount they've actually worked.

    So whilst it's definitely in the employer's interest to get the JobKeeper payment - we have no wage 'expense' if our casuals were earning under this amount, as it's ALL reimbursed - there is no viable way to meet the actual 'cashflow' out for this month until we get reimbursed. If we can backdate wages through March, AFTER receiving the reimbursement - fantastic! Everyone wins!!

    And again, this all comes back to the EMPLOYER'S decisions. They/we get to choose which staff are eligible, not the employee. If your boss tells you no, you should immediately apply for JobSeeker through Centrelink; if they change their mind later that's fine as you'll only get one or the other regardless.

    • ssquid on 02/04/2020 - 14:33

      It's pretty silly. The business has to have suffered a significant decrease in turnover (>=30%) just to be eligible, then has to cover the government's promise until the ATO pulls their finger out and actually stumps up the cash.

    • yamahamoto on 02/04/2020 - 18:02

      Same with my partner. The owner is struggling with cash flow to pay employee before getting the money back from government. I am lucky still having job so my wife is not qualified for jobseeker. So we got nothing from both financial supplements.

  • tsunamisurfer on 02/04/2020 - 13:19
    +4

    I am not sure what OP's problem is.

    OP chose not to work, therefore not receiving an income.

    The $1500 payment from the government is for workers, does the OP expect the cafe to apply for the $1500 for him and then pay him the $1500 for not working???

    I respect the OP's choice not to work, II trust that Centrelink will act accordingly when they are told that the OP chose not to work and quit.

  • Simoneee on 02/04/2020 - 13:23
    +3

    This kid doesn't realise how lucky he is at the moment. Millions of Australians are left unemployed or forced to take annual break but you think its easier to take advantage of the situation and pocket the $1500?

    • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2020 - 13:47
      -1

      I'll definitely consider myself 'lucky' if I was still employed somewhere else far away from the hospital I'm currently in. My hospital is opening it's COVID clinic this week. We have also recently interacted with a possible COVID carrier in the last 2 weeks, and we only found out that patient was positive 2 days ago. Today is the first day I stopped working. My employer said I am still employed and can go back when I'm ready. 4 of my other workmates stopped working. So as for now, there are only 2 eligible workers, as the other 4 are all student visas.

  • GangGang on 02/04/2020 - 13:29
    +1

    I don't think you communicated to the manager properly.

    You're a fulltime employee & said I'm not coming in. Did you quit, take annual leave or without pay?

  • redforever on 02/04/2020 - 13:50
    +2

    If you are eligible, then what is stopping everyone else to stop coming to work because they don't feel safe.

    Then the shop has to close. Defeats the purpose of keeping jobs where possible.

  • Garrettau on 02/04/2020 - 13:50

    You have to be stood down by employer to get the payment

    • PissLUR on 02/04/2020 - 14:00

      this is wrong!

      • redforever on 02/04/2020 - 14:03

        Or go to work if rostered.

  • redforever on 02/04/2020 - 14:02
    +1

    Maybe look into the Job Seeker allowance. Bit lower but I am not sure if you can if you are still employed but on leave without pay.

    You are a full time permanent right? Or just casual working full time hours. If the later might be OK to go for job seeker payment.

  • ausdday on 02/04/2020 - 14:14
    +3

    I think OP should just go with JobSeeker and move on.

    JobSeeker is for employees who are affected by COVID19, laid off, stood down, reduced hour, etc.
    JobKeeper is to support employer who are in financial difficulty, to assist them on payroll, so that business can resume as usual when this pandemic is over.

    If you don't feel safe, you should talk to your manager to get some masks, goggles, gloves and sanitizer. Just do the usual, wear goggles, mask, gloves, while you work. Clean yourselves before or as soon as your enter your house, there is no more risk than any of us.

    • ssquid on 02/04/2020 - 14:37
      +1

      JobKeeper is also for employees who have been stood down, so they can go back to work when business picks back up. Basically it looks better for the government if people are still "employed" rather than claiming JobSeeker (plus their employer will still have to make super contributions based on their regular pay).

      (OP was not stood down, it was their decision not to work.)

  • ozhunter on 02/04/2020 - 14:40

    JobKeeper is for those that are working…

  • centrelink on 02/04/2020 - 15:29

    Yeah, nah screw that i aint going to pay you

    /s

  • filfa on 02/04/2020 - 16:14
    1. The business is required to have a 30% downturn month on month from the previous financial year.
    2. Stood down employees do not receive the Job Keeper payment.
    3. You don't feel 'safe' going to work? so what are you doing, you're essentially not fulfilling your job requirements and could be terminated.
    • ssquid on 02/04/2020 - 16:42
      +2

      Stood down employees can receive JobKeeper payments.

  • Cheap Steve on 02/04/2020 - 16:17
    +1

    Unpopular opinion, am I the only one that thinks the manager is a d1ck and is having a power play moment.

    The finer details of Jobseeker payment haven’t been released yet but my money is on you will get your $1,500 per fortnight.

    • THL on 02/04/2020 - 17:10

      If OP continues to refuse to work, I doubt OP's eligible for the payment. If OP's not working, then OP's not fulfilling the role. Furthermore, failure to turn up to work without a legitimate reason (no sick leave or annual leave used), then why should the business owner pay the $1500?

      Imagine if OP gets what he/she wanted, then all other team members will just do the same and not turn up to work. Why should they work if others are sitting at home while getting paid the same? It makes no sense.

  • Burnz316 on 02/04/2020 - 16:25

    Bit late on the April fools post.

    Go back to work or don't get paid.

  • Maxxjet on 02/04/2020 - 16:43
    +1

    Your employer apparently isn't struggling - hospital is open and could get busier. If by any chance the revenue is down by 30%, JK is to help employee WHO WANTS WORK BUT NO WORK FOR THEM!!!!

  • Sofie519 on 02/04/2020 - 17:23

    So essentially you want to be paid like a job keeper, but don’t want to go to work because you feel it’s unsafe. yet jobseeker allowance is not enough, because you don’t actually want to look for work or retrain into another industry or job?

    I feel the employer is correct, it would be at his or her discretion to keep the people who actually intend to work, as it’s not a free ride, it’s so that The small business owner can manoeuvre a way through this pandemic whilst remaining profitable or at least .. not lose everything

  • TheBird on 02/04/2020 - 17:38

    I can see why people would think the manager is being a d*ck, however…

    I can also see it from your perspective. It's appealing to be able to get extra money and be allowed to stay home especially when you see many others getting free government cash.

    I'd like you to think of it from the perspective of the other workers. Lets say you have 4 staff. One decides they won't work for one reason. Do you feel it's fair for the other three to need to continue to work while you decide not to work and receive the same pay? If you think it's fair, go back to work and let one of the others stay home. I'm sure they're concerned for their health and the health of their family too.

  • duluxe2000 on 02/04/2020 - 18:00

    I don't think the manage is a d*ck nor OP is selfish.

    But let put it this way: the manager/head office worries that if everyone can get payment, there might be a chance that noone is going to work at all.

  • k15866 on 02/04/2020 - 18:19
    +1

    This post is more around the safety in returning to work.

    Theoretically those patients with confirmed COVID would be isolated so wouldn't be able to visit your cafe anyway. So those that you are potentially exposed to at work are the staff / general public / non-isolated patients that you have always serviced. For these customers, you have never known whether they are carriers/infectious (pre COVID) and I would say isolation/hand hygiene has been far less stringent (pre COVID) for other droplet precaution diseases. This risk is constantly present for any customer service role, as most people don't walk around with signs saying they have eg. influenza/cold/other. At least, in hospital there's someone who might stop the infectious person from breaking isolation. My point being, the risk has always been there, but now it is at the forefront of everybody's mind. So when do things become 'safe' enough to return?

    Is it realistic/warranted for the business to supply masks given the constant, potential risk of infectious customers? Are you willing to wear masks/wash hands religiously for the rest of your customer servicing career to limit this risk?

    Understandably during this time, some people will opt to do everything humanly possible to avoid being infected to keep themselves/family safe. You do you

  • piece on 02/04/2020 - 19:40

    There are many people who knowingly and selflessly put themselves in harms way. Whilst I empathise your situation and respect the decision that you made, I hope that you could also understand the predicament of your employers. There are many others who would be willing to do your role. Maybe you should give them a chance?

    • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2020 - 19:47

      I am in a good relationship with my boss. I have been very patient with him. He used to verbally abuse us, he would get quick tempers, throw stuff, slam things. And we didn't react or do anything. He just recently calmed down. And I've lost respect for him countless of times. We never get any recognition, no promotions and are under paid. There are also a couple of times when he'd forget to pay us, and have also 'forgotten' to count the right hours we worked for. I have always been nice to him until now and in no way I have ever retaliated.

      • whooah1979 on 02/04/2020 - 19:56
        +1

        Your employer sounds terrible. You should quit and find work somewhere else.

  • Mulga Bill on 02/04/2020 - 20:05

    OP is full time? Why would he put him on the Jobkeeper scheme when if he came back to work he would have to pay the difference between his annual income ($?) and $1500 per fortnight ($39,000). He can get more hours of work from 3 casuals earning $1500 per fortnight without the need to fork out anything! This is why the scheme is flawed. It encourages casual workers (who get a bonus if normally get less than $1,500 per fortnight) and disadvantages full time workers…and guess what 3 x casuals earning $18,000 pa pay no tax while the full timer earing $54,000 pays approximately $9K tax. At least it makes the unemployment rate look better!

  • wog_ta on 02/04/2020 - 20:32
    +1

    Lets not mix up how your employer treats you, their temper or how many extra unpaid hours or even your pay rate - these are whole different issues. These may help justify to your self the logic of what you deserve (which you probably do) but does not really change anything in this situation.

    If you can work and choose not too then this is the basis behind your predicament. You are fine to choose not to work, which may mean you are potentially safer but miss out on the $1,500.

    Putting it into perspective if everyone that is working today such as delivery drivers, petrol station attendants, emergency services (police, ambos), staff at grocery stores etc stopped society would very quickly crumble. Respectfully if you decided to stop working right now you would be very quickly replaced.

  • Stewardo on 02/04/2020 - 20:35

    Wouldn’t the proposed bill have to go thru parliament first?

  • jtc13 on 02/04/2020 - 21:12

    Sorry if this has already been posted but from my understanding the Job Keeper payment is to keep you working (on the books and being paid) if your employer has lost all their business or has had to shut down. If your employer is busy and has not been ordered to shut down and there is work available I don't think you qualify.

    1. business has to show more than 30% loss in turnover due to Corona Virus situation
    2. if above is valid for your business then you would be eligible if an employee at the time of a shut down. IF however your business is not shut down it is not that clear. I would assume that they are still offering you a normal wage and therefore the Job Keeper allowance would not apply.

    Seems you are choosing not to work even though there is work there available. Not judging your decision but under how it works I don't think you qualify.

    • Smulder on 02/04/2020 - 22:33

      Shutdown of the business is not required to receive the payment. It is quite clear.

      Also, an employee can still be earning their standard full wage and be eligible. The payment is not affected by the employee's wage at all.

      Pretty much if it was opposite day, you'd be 100% correct.

  • johndowy on 02/04/2020 - 21:19

    This is a simple black and white case.

    According to ATO, you can get it but only if you are still restored on. If you choose not to work, then you cannot get it. End story.

  • darkmattersunB6c0MV on 02/04/2020 - 21:25

    I am really disappointed by the OP's arguments.
    This is not the reason taxpayer dollars are being spent. It is to help small businesses sustain in the time of difficult times, where they have been hit hard by the downturn.
    You should be happy to have a job in these times, and if you are very concerned, negotiate with your boss to get a face mask and gloves and sanitiser.
    And please wash your hands regularly.

    If everyone thought like you, and doctors and nurses started to feel uncomfortable as well around COVID-19 patients, then who will be there for essential services?

    What about the Police?

    And transport?

    Food?

    I know some people in the frontline who are not staying with their family because at this time, they don't want to risk infecting their family.
    This does not stop them from going back and doing long shifts with infected patients.

    By all means, make a decision not to work, but please do not say that you should get the 1500 per fortnight subsidy.
    Anyway, if the business is so busy they are probably not even eligible as there is no downturn.

  • tryagain on 02/04/2020 - 21:51

    You have said your employer doesn't treat you well. You now expect him to go to the effort to apply on your behalf, likely cop a cashflow hit and pay you the money? For what reason would he want too? You may be eligible from a government perspective, but that doesn't mean he has to go to the effort to do it for you, especially with you stopping work, only way you are getting it is if you go back to work. Depending on who was on the books he might happily take you back for at least a few days as you would then effectively be free labour for him.

  • netjock on 03/04/2020 - 00:44

    LoL Government to pay jobkeeper for someone who wants no part in turning up for it.

    Maybe you should look at a career change to be a stunt person

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